Is there ANY justification for ANY christian churches to keep secerets?

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   graceinusposted 11 years ago

   Is there ANY justification for ANY christian churches to keep secerets?
   
   What need is there for any christian church to keep secerets? I heard of and seen a number of christian churches that hide some of the doctrine from the public, but only members are allowed to know. And what about a church's true finances, that are kept hiden from the members and public.  Many keep that seceret too. Not to mention criminal activity by members of the clergy. So, I ask this question, would God true church keep secerets?

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   Ronald Bachnerposted 11 years ago

   These are false churches whose focus is not on the word of god and the gospel.  They are failing to trust in God.  They are serving other masters before God.

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      graceinusposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Ronald- Thank you. I believe there is much carnal mindedness by those members of any christian church that holds secerets of their church of any kind.

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   Deepes Mindposted 11 years ago

   There is no true justification for a church to keep secrets. A church that is unwilling to reveal all things is a church that has a hidden agenda and as such cannot be trusted.

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      graceinusposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Deepes Mind- What need could there possibly be for ANY christian church to have a hidden agenda. I have a trust issue with any man made church that holds secerets. Many thanks for your answer.

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      Deepes Mindposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      That's the million dollar question

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   JThomp42posted 11 years ago

   No. The church is Jesus Christ. The way is the good book. Doctrine should be taught out of the Bible and the Bible only. Saying that, If the preacher is doing this then he is doing what is pleasing to God. Not trying to please his congregation.

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      graceinusposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      JThomps42- There are many christian churches out there that hide there deep doctrine from the public. They will say one thing in public, and to the members of their church say something else and tell them to keep it within their church. Thans you JT.

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      JThomp42posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      You are very welcome my friend.

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      Ericdierkerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Graceinus, help me out here, I have been around awhile and except for movies I do not know in such occurrences. Please illuminate us. Maybe the Mormons with inner sanctums? Maybe voting for a Pope? You have me intrigued

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      graceinusposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Eric- Here's one example, research the Pilidelphia Church of God. And then call them and ask if you can attend one of their services. You will get a NO. There is a process one must go through first. Why. They are very seceretive.

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      Ericdierkerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Now I get it. In that context, that kind of secrecy is just down right evil and scary. I shutter. I mean it, I have to block them from my mind for I am not strong enough to combat it. Thanks for walking me through this, I have learned a lot.

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      graceinusposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Eric- I agree with you 1000%.

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   Ericdierkerposted 11 years ago

   I do not know a man that does not have secrets. Maybe he is not actively hiding them, but why would anyone care to hear about the marble that was his favorite when he was five. These are the ways of man. An actual community that acts as a church is made up of members. So how can the whole of the membership not have secrets?
   Oh my!!! Just think of the confessions. Whether out loud in a congregation, or silently in our minds or in a session with a pastor. We have secular laws and church laws that protect such secrets.
   So I suppose your question goes to dogma/doctrinal/liturgical type secrets. It is my experience that secrets in these areas fall into two categories. No one cares and it is part of a show that includes mysteries. Why do the Catholics ring those bells during communion. What up with those Episcopal Candles and why would a priest wash his hands after giving the sacraments? I know the reason but if I started explaining it to my wife she would thank me later for putting her to sleep.
   As to wrongful actions of members of the church, we ask only who would be the last or the first to cast a stone. But if one causes injury to spirit or body of another member, especially a widow or a child, openness of confession and expulsion or repentance are required. No one lights a candle and puts it under a basket.
   Please be clear, this is not any kind of rule I make or repeat, it is more of a "it just is" in my experience.

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      graceinusposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Eric- Can you give me one good example, where Jesus would expect or accept the idea of keeping , in whole or in part, anything about His church seceret or hidden? Thanks.

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      Ericdierkerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Oh most assuredly. The mysteries of Faith, The mysteries of the Trinity. The timing of His return. He is God, I am a man, I do not know all He knows. Perhaps we should take the negativity out of secrets. Because something is a secret is it bad?

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      graceinusposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Eric- I believe there's a difference between true spiritual mysteries that can be study about through God's word. What I question are the secerets IMPOSED by MEN within the churches to mislead or hide for whatever reason. Thanks again Eric.

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   PlanksandNailsposted 11 years ago

   There should be no secrets to those who are the genuine church. All genuine church doctrine is freely revealed in the Bible. The secret heresy "doctrine" that only the priviledged members are only supposed to know is man-made ideaology; it is only of value in a hiearchial system where only the special elite "peacocks" are the only ones who can reveal to you the "secrets" of God.
   
   The finaces that the true Church cheerfully gives is to freely given one to another; therefore, there is nothing to hidden behind closed doors. If someone is in need, it is given straight to that person, not via the clergy where they can skim as much as they want off the top first for themselves.
   
   The clergy in the man-made churches know that "secrets" are gold. If you continue filling their offering plate, they will dispense these "secrets" relative to the flow of the monetary.
   
   Secrets in the "church" are characteristic of occult/cult like activity that is meant to be hidden from view.
   
   For there is nothing hid, which shall not be manifested; neither was anything kept secret, but that it should come abroad. - Mark 4:22
   
   Truth may be expounded privately by the Holy Spirit; it is not meant for concealment, but the work of grace is to be proclaimed publically without cost.

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      graceinusposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      PlanksandNails- I totally agree, many many thanks.

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   lone77starposted 11 years ago

   Should a church keep secret that they're hiding refugees in the basement when the Gestapo comes looking for them?
   
   How about the wisdom about which someone is not yet ready to learn. Even Jesus kept secrets from his disciples because they were not yet ready.
   
   And there are a great many things that are "hidden" in the Bible, like a timeline compatible with those of science, the Kabbalah's "Tree of Life" embedded in 2 chapters of Genesis, reincarnation and karma.
   
   Discovering such things takes humility.
   
   Certainly, humans keep secrets to hide crimes, but that is not the only reason for secrets.

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   celafoeposted 11 years ago

   In  true Christianity there are NO secrets, even the hidden things of God are to be revealed.    We are given the Holy Spirit of Jesus to teach us ALL THINGS.   The churches of Men have secrets as you have said, but in Christ there are no secrets.   So when there are secrets that is a strong warning from God to stay away from those folks.  and as you have said they are tools of manipulation used by wolves in sheeps clothing..

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      graceinusposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      celafoe- I agree with you complaetely.
      It's go to see you back. Have not seen you in a week or two. Thank you.

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      celafoeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      yes, we spent a month in USA and so glad to be be back home and relax.

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      Ericdierkerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I am sorry you two, but this is just wrong. Do you both think the "priest" confessional should not be privileged in law and canon? Do you both think a man should talk about sex with his wife. What kind of nonsense are you speaking of. Secrets=Privat

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      graceinusposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Eric- Thank you. We're not talking about personal issues between man and wife or so much what is said between a member and pastor as confession. It's things kept seceret that may relate to daily funtion of a church and kept from members out of fear.

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      Ericdierkerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I am sorry I read the "NO" as meaning "NO" secrets. And even secretly praying in a closet is a "church" secret.

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      celafoeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      whew--- oh ok  wow eric i was beginning to wonder about you.

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      Ericdierkerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Certainly we speak of church liturgical and congregational secrets and doctrinal secrets if we say no secrets. Otherwise we must insist the church keep secrets. And then we must agree it is only man to man that secrets are kept. So we must agree, yes

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      graceinusposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Eric- Example. Most man made churches received money from it's members. These churches will then invest much of this money into stocks, bonds, mutual funds for investments. These actions by the churches are kept seceret from church members. Why?

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      Ericdierkerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Keeping an investment portfolio private. Hmmm. I think most people do that because it is private not secret. SEC Corps do not even necessarily make that public in particulars. There are good reasons to keep them private. Yes they should.

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       graceinusposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Eric- I think we have a disconnect here. Example. Let say I go to a"church service" and donate money. The "Church"  then take's that money and invest it in a stock, bond or mutual fund to gain more money. Are you saying that's O.K. with you? Thanks.

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       Ericdierkerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       I went back and read your original post. Yes I think you are taking offense at something that is just plain practical. Of course churches invest in order to have financial security. Making those matters public serves no purpose. Private or Secret?

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       graceinusposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Eric- I am by no means offended. The whole point behind all of this is that the "Church"  ( individual persons) as I understand it to be is in the world, but not  "Of The World". I see stock, bonds, and mutual funds as (one small part) of the world.

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       celafoeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Eric, then what I hear you saying is that ministry is not to trust God with their future, but to trust in man?   So when the market goes bust and they lose millions because they trusted in man it is ok?  And meanwhile the work of God is lacking.

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       Ericdierkerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Interesting take from both of you. Yes I do believe that it is OK to provide for lease payments, ministers retirement, insurance, Sunday School teachers and child care.

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       graceinusposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Eric- "Church" as I understand it to be, has none of the things in it that you just described. The Church as I understand it to be is strictly spiritual in nature. I don't mean this to offend you in any way at all. I just see a difference. Thanks

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       Ericdierkerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Well what to you call those buildings where people gather to worship Christ?

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       graceinusposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Eric- Thanks again. I know this may sound odd but I see them as just buildings and nothing more. But most people who gather at a building will call it church. Most building are constructed is such a way to give a sense or appearence of holiness.

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       celafoeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       eric,  where does the scripture provide for "retirement" of a minister of Christ?   I understand where the churches of men get it but not men of God.

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