So many people around the world celebrate Christmas by buying Christmas trees decking them with gold and silver ornaments, hanging lights on their houses, spending thousands of dollars on presents, creating that fictional charachter of Santa Clause for their children, milk and cookies, reindeers flying, hanging the mistle toe.
What does any of this have to do with Jesus being born?
and Jesus wasn't born a 25th of December-
that's why all the confusion.
Christianity should have chosen another date.
Nothing really its just corporations end of the year inventory liquidation
How do you think the 3 wise men got the gifts to give to Jesus? Duh!
Shocking how many so-called christians are unaware of the true reason for the season - or the Sinta Klass story.
Absolutely Nothing!! It is all man's doing ... He would rather we give ourselves away.
So I am not the only one who thinks this then huh....lol
well basically bible didnt talk about christmas. but it Jesus was born on that day.and if our saviour came to the world on that day, i think it worth celebrating
Christmas has nothing to do with Jesus Christ (peace be upon him). These are all self made rituals developed over the period of time. It's totally against what Allah and Jesus (pbuh) said and the central theme behind christmas is also a blasphemy.
Nothing. The Bible says not to worship using the customs and practices that others use to worship their Gods anyway. But apparently Jesus doesn't have anything to do with Christmas either.
Well my view is somewhat different. I being a Christian would love to see more focus on Jesus with Christmas in our culture. In my life there is. That being said, the trees and garland, gifts and reindeer do add to the cheer. It is my favorite time of the year ! I celebrate His birth and love the caroles that speak of this, Mariah Carry sings them beautifully !
Yes, but if it is a fact that Jesus was born on December 25th(My opinion is he wasnt born that day) why do so many people push the real issue aside.....JESUS CHRIST. Most kids dont think about Jesus when Christmas comes around they think about all the toys that they have asked Santa for and wonder whether or not they were good enough all year to get them. We should thank God everyday for sending us his son to save us.
Well, I've come to think that December 25th wasnt the day Jesus was born anyways. Im still doing my research, but then again maybe we are not supposed to celebrate the one day Jesus was born but instead celebrate the fact he was born to save us, everyday. :?
Christmas I think is a tool of the devil to distract people, which it has done marvelously.
It also says in the Bible not to follow the traditions of men. It also talks about christmas trees and decking them with ornaments.
...The Gospels also emphasize you not be too analytical in regard to religion and theology, but that you embrace the true spirit of Love (with a capital L) instead -- isn't this the central message in the Gospels -- and also much of what Paul wrote revolves around this too
Christians are free to celebrate Christmas however they please. What I don't understand is why it matters one whit how other people are celebrating Christmas. Even within Christianity there are all kinds of ways of celebrating and many levels of tolerance and tradition.
If Christmas has deep religious meaning for you, honor it on that level in your own home but leave others to do what they please. Other people aren't hurting you or stopping you from doing what you think is right on Christmas.
nothing actually. he was born at a different time of year. in addition, Christmas celebrations have pagan origins. that doesn't stop people from saying "Jesus is the reason for the season" or "Happy Birtday Jesus".
meh. i like it all anyway.
Presigo, What about the Bible saying not to do that? Does that bother you? And since Jesus wasn't apparently born at that time means Christmas is wholesale pagan holiday adoption by Christians. I'm having a hard time with it this year, I have babies here that are used to a tree, Christmas, manger, all that. Don't know if I should go along with it or not. I have no problem celebrating winter and snow though!
The rights of children supersede the rights of Jesus. If you have raised your kids to have Xmas trees, Santa, and so on, for God's sake don't stop -- they won't thank you for it
This is the first year we've had them. Besides, they're Mormon, don't know what differences that entails. Actually, they're so little they're not really anything yet.
I am going to teach my kids the truth, which will be hard since we are surrounded by Christmas celebraters.
I was taught the Nativity Story as truth when I was a child; it was never once implied that Christmas trees, and so on, took away from that story. Kids are not that analytical.
BRAVO!! BRAVO!! This is exactly what I've been saying for years...Christmas is a kids holiday and when you have kids they make sure that is abundantly clear. I don't have children but do witness spouse's children acting in a greedy and a "feeling of entitlement" manner. This is directly related to the showering of gifts, gifts, gifts and more gifts. I couldn't decorate our tree this year the way I wanted (which is the ONLY thing I ask for throughout the year) because they caused a fuss and they've not returned to our house since that day. So, what the....
I'm reluctant to spend good $$ on children who act in this fashion. I do notice that their wants and needs for gifts changes weekly based on what is on the TV at the time.
Nothing!...he's dead! or didn't exist, except in a story, take your pick!
well, i have to disagree about children only thinking about toys and whatnot. for them, Christmas time is an almost magical time, and very special. children shouldn't be blamed for focusing on what we put in front of them. if you want them to focus on Jesus, then pray a lot and take them to mass and share Jesus stories with them. but there's nothing wrong with them getting into the holiday spirit, and looking forward to presents under the tree and all that entails. these are happy times for them; let them enjoy them.
100% agreement, have some fun people, but always remember the reason for all this cheer, we have been redeemed !
Yeah for sure cosette. Have you ever noticed how some children are so interested in the nativity scene. When I was a kid I helped my younger sister and brother pick out a Christmas present for mom. I suggested a little nativity scene. They loved it and so did mom.
I agree every minute that my family spends with one another is a happy time but I assure you that they can enjoy the birth of Jesus and the fact that he was sacrificed for our sins with out all christmas trees, lights, decorations, and santa clause.
i'm sure they can. i don't see anything wrong with a few pretty lights and a few nice presents under the tree, though. the pioneers were penniless but they made a lot of their gifts for each other to teach their children about giving and sharing and they still managed to remember Christ.
I followed so blindly into celebrating Christmas with the traditional christmas tree and lights and what not but I can not bring myself to do it anymore once I have looked into the origin of Christmas and looked into how it exactly ties to Jesus.
i have to say, Pres, i love the religious songs the most, and the religious symbols too, and i'm not religious. that stuff never really leaves you, and i can appreciate it on some level. and Christmas is a spiritual holiday, even though commerce might cloud that a little. i feel like listening to O Holy Night now
...I am however very much AGAINST mixing Celine Dion into *any* event or festival (Sideshow-Bob-style shudder)
...and I'm from Quebec (sort-of)
Look up her rendition of AC/DC's You Shook Me All Night Long on Youtube. Some things just *shouldn't* be allowed
Got Mariah going now !!! very Christmassy, (oohh is that a word?)
Anywho......Once again people have made a mockery of Jesus' birth by adding pagan traditions.
I don't know if this will apply to your kids, but I will give you a story from my own life, that may help.
At a certain point in my life my father decided to become Jewish (he was actually born Jewish, but never practiced, and I was always raised with the Nativity Story, Christmas tree, gifts, Santa, carols, Christmas carol services, and so on).
That year he decided to make the Christmas tree a Hannukah tree, and to kind of side-step the Christmas traditions I was used to. I don't think I have ever forgiven him.
Be careful. Leading someone to your own view (or to the Truth, which is, I guess, how you would put it (no sarcasm intended btw) does not involve antagonizing them... after all, as Richard Dawkins points out (not that I am a fan of his, necessarily), there are no Muslim or Christian children, because a person has to be old enough to decide for him- or herself, in order to be said to *truly* follow a faith.
I'm not trying to be antagonistic, but I know that experience definitely affected me for the worst.
i don't know, i think the two can coexist...
Linus' Christmas Speech
Have you read The Gospel According to Peanuts? Well worth picking up at a second-hand bookstore. Especially the chapter on The Hound of Heaven
What - you mean like cutting down a tree and decorating it to celebrate the winter solstice.
Just tell yourself it doesn't really matter when jesus was born (if he was) and what really matters is over powering and destroying previous cultural traditions.
Ask Valerie about that - she has it chapter and verse - although it was not the good Christians - it was the bad ones. Still waiting for the guide to which is which.
I mock jesus's birth every day. I don't just wait until Christmas.
which is why God will probably not find favor in you when he comes to redeem us.
Hence the mocking.
"he's makin' a list
checkin' it twice
gonna find out who's
naughty or nice"
(oops, wrong entity, never mind
You can't mock Jesus' birth without acknowledging it happened, <snipped - no personal attacks in the Forums>. I think I know why God might allow atheism. I think I would like it if you became an a-Valerie-ist. Just pretend I don't exist. Oh, but that won't keep you from wasting your energy on mocking phantoms, fairies, and other nonexistent things.
Of course I can. Sick and twisted? Little? Just because I argue with you and ask you to show the difference between the "good" denominations and the "bad" denominations that were responsible for the destruction of numerous aboriginal cultures. Any time by the way. I never mock unexplained things like fairies because they do not come with a set of rules that their followers want to spread and claim some authority with.
And I not really mocking jesus. I am mocking his fan club.
You never asked me the difference between good and bad denominations. In fact, you never asked me anything honestly, because you obviously have all the answers. I said no denominations were responsible. It was all greed and lust for power, something Christianity specifically and repeatedly forbids.
And if you aren't really mocking Jesus' birth, why say that you are?
I stand by calling you sad and twisted, because a real atheist secure in his unbelief would have better things to do than waste time and energy mocking the nonexistent.
They only mock what they do not understand.
If you aren't really turning the other cheek - why say that you are?
I do not mock god or baby jesus, because they do not exist. You lot? Fair game. I don't care what you think of me, but I understand that a lot of so-called Christians get upset and angry with me because I make fun of their irrational beliefs.
Odd how when you are arguing for your beliefs it is because you are secure in them, yet when I argue against you spreading this nonsense - I am insecure in my unbelief?
Nothing. Christian Churches of the 14th and 15th centuries combined Christian back stories to existing non christian customs and celebrations. It was a way around "forced" conversions, instead of burning you at the stake they just replace your customs and holidays. Created organized schools, and therefore dictate what your children learn.....sound familiar? Yea, organized religion isn't the only man made instituion guilty of such practices.
In the case of christmast it was a pagan holiday, originally caled "Dies Natalis Solis Invicti" Birthday of the unconquerable Sun. It was celibrated so many days after the winter solstice, the 25th. Christians picked this date to over shadow the existing holiday.
It suppose to be when Jesus was born, but I heard Jesus wasn't born Dec 25. I still enjoy it though, love being with my family and friends.
Christmas has as much to do with Jesus as we want it to- even the formerly pagan traditions like the Christmas tree. I mean, I was taught that evergreens symbolize the joyful hope for eternal life that Jesus brings. Lights on the house and in the windows symbolize a family's willingness to welcome Jesus. Holly and mistletoe? Symbolic of Jesus' death on the cross. And so forth. The Christian significance of these symbols is actually quite removed from paganism.
I say; celebrate the holiday of Love and family. Telling the children that some people celebrate this in memory of Jesus thinking that it might have been his birthday, And this time of the year can be looked forward to in memory of the Love that Jesus has for us.
That's what I have said "only" when asked by my grandchildren.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
i know, right?
Good Cop/Bad Cop comes to mind for some strange reason.
(sorry, CG, this is not said in a mocking way; my mind is just rambling)
Well, fortunately nothing anyone ever says could ever hurt me.
Good for you. Why would words ever hurt? Now drop your silly beliefs about god coming to get me for not believing, do a little research and discover where the ridiculous Jesus story was stolen from and get back to me when you have some facts at hand.
God is coming to redeem you ...
I never said God was coming to get you, he's coming to get his believers, you, I am not so sure about we'll let God decide that one.
The way I see it you need to do a little research for yourself all mighty one. I am not the one who has a problem with our creator you are. Read the Bible accept Jesus into your life.
Hi CG. Speaking of research, and your comment elsewhere that children are starving simply because of their own governments' neglect (which is partly true), and speaking of salvation, (not that I am a Bible-literalist, to be honest, by any means), check out the last half of Matthew Chapter 25 ... 27,000 children die per day of preventable illness... are you SURE you're one of the ones "heading up"?
(I'm trying not to sound antagonistic, but I do think some Christians are more concerned with dogma than with the true priorities as epitomized in the Gospel writers' portrayal of Jesus: Matthew 25, take a look (I quote it often on Hubpages )
For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. For all that is good there is an equal and opposite force to counter it. Christmas and the invoking of charity and goodwill it promotes is good. However, the Adversary is there all along the way with his agenda promoting failed hearts and excess commercialism. The task for all of us at hand is to discern the good from it all and to not become a hypocrite with it. If we feel cheerful, charitable and hopeful at this time of year than instill those feelings permanently within and carry them throughout the year. That's the secret to Christmas!
I don't believe Jesus Christ was born on December 25th either but I celebrate it on such nonetheless. When we celebrate it is not as important as IF we celebrate it. Often in these forums we dealve too much into details and particulars which can easily translate into a loss or spirit of something. So go ahead and put up the tree and have some egg nogg but most important is teaching your children goodwill and charity to their fellow beings and of course the birth of the One whose birth we celebrate.
When was Santa born? :]
So, when do you wish to celebrate the birth of Jesus? Do you know his birthday?
Feb 29. Unfortunately Tony Robbins was born that same day, so we have to celebrate the other guy on an alternate day.
I watched this History or Discovery channel special once about Jesus' real birth date (the real human one that died and did not come back to life), it said something like the star they would have followed was actually Jupiter and something about how Saturn and Jupiter were up in the sky during this time which was the 'signal' that a new king had arrived.
Anyways, the date was something more like September 21st.
Sorry, thought you were a believer? Christmas is a nice positive time, why be against the celebration just because it includes Santa Claus? I truly believe that Christmas is what you make it...
i like christmas . and i like to think there is a god i have my own idea of it so i am a believer
I happen to agree with Cosette totally. I disagree with Waynet and all the others who do not believe in Jesus. Maybe Christ was not really born on the 25th December, but He was born to save and redeem us. Christmas is a time for rejoicing, so let's be merry , let the children have fun, and let's honour Jesus by setting up a Christmas Crib together with the Christmas Tree and the other decorations.
We should honor Jesus every day of our lives not just one day in peticular. Jesus gave us the ceremony of baptism to honor him, to live a life in purity.
Maybe we should all just decorate our homes with satanic symbols as well as long as it is in the name of Christmas. Christmas is pagan, pagan is sun worship sun worship is not of our loving God. hmmmmmm.
Anyways, I have some children I need to feed.
Christmas is not pagan. The date was chosen as a way of getting Pagans to become Christians by co-opting the date. If you don't believe in celebrating Christmas, don't run down other people's beliefs. Christmas is a day when people come together in love and caring, regardless if they believe in God or Jesus or not.
"fall not into the traditions of man"
This is awful. Are you folks really having a go at CHRISTMAS now???!!! Where will it end. It's almost becoming laughable.
Fortunately, just about all of the Christian posters on this thread (Presigo, Make Money, etc) seem to have a very sensible attitude to this - why CG thinks her opinion is better than theirs, is beyond me...
some things are sanctified, some are not. have a go at it? man has a go at God every day. There is a mockery in marriage, sabbath keeping and anything that is pure. I'm not here to rub your back. sorry.
Maybe not, but who are you to disagree with all of the other Bible-believing Christians who think Christmas is fine? I mean... Oh this is just silly; for once I find myself on a thread were almost all of the Bible-literalists are talking sense... but there always have to be a couple. Mannnnn, no wonder there is so much conflict within religious groups: it's not a good advertisement, let me assure you, and it is JUST like those Pharisees and Sadducees Jesus didn't seem too keen on.
Anyway. Whatever. Christmas is the one time of year when people actually seem to give a damn about the poor - if that is not a good enough reason to keep it, I don't know what is.
(This stuff is insane -- all of the awful things going on in the world and we're sitting here wasting our energy debating CHRISTMAS !!!! It's the stuff of comedy specials)
And I thought the "war on Christmas" was supposed to be perpetrated by non-Christians
Have a very merry Christmas.
If all would seek the truth, there would be much to celebrate. There are causes not associated with pagan rituals that are worthy of praise. and while you think all of this is very silly- you also make sure that YOUR point is made. not laughable
You're right. If I think the debate is silly why am I here. True. So I'm off. Good luck with this one (yes that was sarcasm).
Ive been listening to the adverts on t.v, sounds like they are saying Chrismas.. I will assume from now on it is about bloke named Chris's birthday. Listen next time ones on!
Not many people celebrate Christmas for Jesus' birth, only for the happy season, family get togethers and the food/drink/gifts and not to mention the big sales!!!
A few weeks ago, the Pastor gave me a chance to speak. Since Thanksgiving was finished and the focus was on Christmas, I spoke on a topic similar to the question you have raised.However, I researched my topic not only on the internet but in the Bible. What I discovered and presented was interesting. After the message,the Pastor's wife shook my hand and called me a missionary.
First of all, Christmas is Christ + mas as in Michaelmas and any of the feast days ending that way. The Catholic, Anglican, Lutheran and Methodist celebrate Mass or the Eucharist. The Bible says that at the 'Last Supper' when Jesus broke the bread and drank the wine/grape juice, He instructed His followers to carry it on until His return.Some churches/denominations remember His words every 13 weeks or so if they are not too busy.Some wash feet; and some do not.Several churches simply forget them.
Anyhow,Christmas could have been on February 14[Valentine's Day] April 1[Fool's Day] or even Halloween [with witches and goblins].To cut this short in mercy, Christmas was planned to keep before Christians the connection with Easter[which has been perverted with bunnies who do not lay eggs!].The birth of Jesus,His life, suffering and death should not be compartmentalized.
Maybe I will blog the message I delivered a few weeks ago. Jesus, the Kinsman- Redeemer had to clothe Himself and enter the world through the proper channel because of Genesis 3:15 and John 3:16,17.Every house needs some foundation- preferably in rock: and Jesus came to be the Rock of Ages.The house Christians and others build need not crumble.It can stand firm throughout the ravages of time because of the purpose known worldwide and celebrated as as Christmas.Everything else is commercial fluff.
Simply read Jeremiah chapter ten verses 1 through 6. If this doed not make you understand then may GOD help you. By the way Christ Jesus and all of His diciples celebrated the same exact Holy Days that were proscribed in the Old Testamant. Jesus did not change these Holy Days. The catholic church did that.
Um, no. Actually, the Catholic Church only changed Easter not to co-opt a pagan festival, but because there were concerns about the Hebrew lunar calendar's accuracy.
As early as in Acts of the Apostles, Jewish believers observed Shabbat on Saturday, but all believers gathered on Sunday to commemorate the Resurrection. And it was in Acts that it was decided that non-Jewish believers weren't obligated to follow specifically Jewish regulations.
The catholic church is involved in everything.
Not only Jewish people are to celebrate the Sabbath. The Sabbath is for man. No where in the Bible does it say to celebrate the resurrection of Christ on Sunday. Jesus gave us the ceremony of Baptism to honor his crusifixion, death and resurrection.
you see Christmas is the birth of HIM< birth of CHRIST, thats the beginning of that word,
but it is all commercialized now and was robbed of the true essence of Christmas which is love and peace to all
caring for everybody too
Not too hard to understand.
Now that is sick and twisted.
It's just the layering of traditions - nothing to be worried about in my opinion. You can have the religious side of Christmas and Santa, the tree and the rest.
Its just frustrating. The tradition that I bring to the table is the special, well thought out tree. I don't believe in just throwing a tree on the floor, throwing some bulbs on it and callin 'er good. and, that's what they wanted....just to throw ornaments at it and be done with it. They have two homes, so they can do that at their mom's. Just seems like when they are here, they have this "entitlement" theory and they aren't even here but about 1/3 of the time. Next year it will be different...however, this year, they pretty much stripped me of all the holiday cheer I was able to muster up. I would think it would be fabulous to look at a beautiful tree. there are children/people out there that can't afford a tree, let alone gifts. Anyway....
I printed a Christmas Quiz that they need to pass before the gluttenous receiving of gifts. heh heh heh.
Chambersgirl21; I support you entirely in your beliefs, and, having worked in special education for many years, would much rather see a child raised by parents (a parent) who are (is) committed in their beliefs, and there for them, to love them and guide them, to raise them in the way that they should go (Proverbs 22:6), rather then be lavished with presents from parents who otherwise have little to do with them, allowing them to be taught right from wrong in the streets. With the only caveat being that it is very hard for a child to understand being in the world but not of it, so they will need immense support from you or they will end up rejecting what you say, and will surely defect to the world; it is just too much temptation without a tremendous amount of ever present love in their lives for support.
God bless you, and my prayers are with you.
I agree generally, i guess, but couldn't they have a tree, and some decorations, and some modest gifts, at least. You don't have to exclude Jesus from the picture -- I mean, to me, even though I am not "one of the faithful", Christmas without the Christmas Story is just weird. As for Santa, they all stop believing it after the age of ten, so what's the harm
What does Jesus have to do with Christmas?
From a make believe character to another character.
“greed and lust for power, something Christianity specifically and repeatedly forbids”.
I say...Such a preposterous statement from any religious institution reeks of dishonesty. pylos
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