This forum is inspired by the following song, "Winning the war on drugs" by The Asylum Street Spankers.
Take a moment to watch the video or listen to the song. I personally don't believe God makes mistakes and that the war on drugs is a war against freedom and liberty.
Here's the song:
Drugs take lives. Marijuana has dire affects on people well after the person taking it has given it up. Maybe education would work better than calling it a war and going in boots and all. I was horrified when an American president called three nations an axis of evil. After saying that it was clear you could and still can throw diplomacy out the window.
It is not possible to win a war against certain drugs anyway. If it can be easily and cheaply made then the best you can do is try to keep a lid on it and warn people of the effects.
There was a time when the USA tried to outlaw drinking alcohol (alcohol for perfume, etc was still allowed). It not only didn't work it resulted in the production of alcohol so substandard people were going blind by drinking it.
Clearly Prohibition didn't teach the Government anything.
I think drugs should be legal for adults, as long as they're kept away from kids. I totally do not understand why pot is illegal. Anyone with chronic pain will attest to the benefits of marijuana.
I get freaked out thinking about surgeons, pilots and cops with guns getting high before their shifts! Maybe it is just me?
I do think it should be legal for the chemo people too.
The truth is that many of the individuals you've mentioned do either potent legal pharmaceutical drugs, or drugs that leave your system quickly such as cocaine. I get freaked out by that to, but unfortunately, marijuana is inordinately punished as it stays in your system for months. Likewise many uses of other drugs stigmatize marijuana users as lazy, mindless, etc.
Thanks for chiming in Holly!
Thanks the Great Spirit that the Feds stopped busting medicinal distributors recently. Now they can focus more on apprehending and prosecuting violent criminals instead of people with terminal illnesses.
Thanks for the comment habee, I agree.
If it were possible to keep drugs out of the hands of Our children I would say to keep the ban on drugs... but... since that isn't going to happen; maybe we should end the prohibition on drugs. Probation has never worked. When people want something they find a way to get it.
All of that drug money being drawn out of the national economy is more devastating than most can imagine. That money is then funding all kinds of terrorism, covert operations, gorilla warfare and the list goes on.
Maybe the war on drugs is tearing up more than it can ever hope to fix. It certainly has created the opportunity for "Drug Lords" to exists. Just a thought. I don't think that I would want the responceability for that decision.
Well put Jerami, I totally agree.
On a scaller scale I think that we have all at some time or another tore up more than we were trying to fix. I do think that the lesser of two evils would be to sit back and let what naturaly wants to be.
I gotta go take the wife to a chineese buffet, back in a little while
Maybe it's pointing out the obvious here, but...making drugs like marijuana illegal has not kept it out of the hands of youth. It has, however, precluded any kind of regulation for safe distribution and use of drugs. Right now I do know people who get high before they go to work, and the reaction to them is the same that it would be if it were legal...your own time is your own time, but you don't come to work under the influence of or smelling of drugs, alcohol, or anything else, it's unprofessional and should never be tolerated in any work environment.
As for the war on drugs...it's just like the war on terror, it's really easy to win if you made it up in the first place.
Why everybody is so concerned or afraid about drugs, when anyone can get a bottle of wine from the supermarket ?
I think wine, as an addiction,is the worst there is, apart from heroine.
If drugs where free, nobody would be talking about them.
Do you talk about buying aspirin?
Drugs are dangerous for addicts. Because addiction is a disease.
Gambling is an addiction as well, and it's free.
If you consume drugs in a party or for social entertainment, I don't see where the problem is.
If drugs were legal, dealers wouldn't exist.
And the case is, everybody's consuming them,anyway, with the risk that, being illegal, you don't know what you're consuming most of the times.
hmmm aspirin? dodgy stuff. Drugs r bad mkay!
As bad as cigarettes, drinks, sex, casinos,internet, etc.,if you don't know how to handle them.
Aspirin can cause Reye's Syndrome in children. Tylenol can also cause your liver to malfunction.
Alcohol is probably worse than many drugs. Cirosis is a terrible by product of heavy drinking. Not all get it, but I am sure most do.
As Larry the cable guy said... Ya caint fix stupid.
I'm sure that this is not the the norm, but of the poorest people that I know spend too much of what little income they have on either drugs or alcohol.I guess we all have something that is our weakness.
You can not pass enough laws against stupidity, to do any good either.
The term .."Lesser of two evils".. come to mind
I vote for decriminalizing drugs. Cant do any more damage than it already is. How many fathers are in jail for minor possession. How much money is being spent on keeping them in jail. How much of our money is supporting the Drug Lords and terrorism etc.
We should redirect our funding to things that will work
Tantrum said...I think wine, as an addiction,is the worst there is, apart from heroine.
Jerami said... Mormin "Mis T" I once thought that about wine until a wino told me that Wine is all that their stomach will let stay down. It is the last step on their decline from their alchol of choice.
Lots of interesting posts!
I agree with 99% of the sentiment here already. Thought I'd throw out this fastball...
As far as religion and beliefs (as so far we've mainly nailed politics) I've met a lot of religious conservatives over the years who wholly support The War On Drugs.
Isn't it ironic that they are condemning one of the Lord's creations? Doesn't it say in the Book somewhere something to the effect, "everyone can use any and all plants and animals?"
I'm not a verse thumper or anything, but I know it's in there!
Lots of people don't realize, that marijuana is directly related to "hops" from beer, and that their effects on the body and brain are similar. As far as it being a so called "gateway" drug, I think that's what EARNESTSHUB would call, "bulldust"! People just look for something to blame things on, rather than take responsibility for their own, or their family or friends actions.
Personally I like what the Dutch do, they decriminalize the soft stuff and focus on squashing the hard stuff heroine, crack, etc.
Also I think there's some strange (some might say evil) collaboration between well endowed pharmaceutical companies and peoples addictions, it's as though they are allowed to profit immensely from their version of drug pushing.
Okay, even though I do agree with the decriminalization of at least some drugs (I've seen enough of the effects of meth to really be averse to some of the "manufactured" drugs), I'm going to point out one area where people can argue about usage.
Yes, everything the Lord has put on the Earth has a purpose, but it can also be used for a purpose for which it was not intended. Some people may say this is the case with marijuana, as the plant has many, many other uses, some more obviously beneficial than smoking it. Things like tobacco, which was used for anything from a poultice to a toothpaste, do have decidedly beneficial applications, but that application is not necessarily the one for which we currently use it.
Personally, I think marijuana has shown its benefits both in the manner it's most commonly used now and its other uses, though I know many people disagree. The issue is always misuse, which is possible with nearly every substance known to humankind. When you're ready to outlaw canned air, permanent markers, paint, gasoline or diesel engines, and fried foods, then marijuana will make sense to be on the list of illegal substances.
The only thing that does make sense is that the government makes money off of criminalizing the use, and it's much easier to catch marijuana offenders because of the residual traces after use. More money is made off of alcohol and tobacco by keeping it legal, it gets taxed and it's not nearly as easy to produce your own as it is to grow marijuana.
And no, I have never smoked marijuana or used any other drug -- unless you count gross abuse of caffeine -- but this is still one thing that just never made sense to me.
A very sad post wychic but only because it is absolutely true. George Carlin (God rest his soul) was fond of saying this country (America) was bought and sold a long time ago.
George Carlin was a very smart man, and he got to state the honest truth because if it's in the form of comedy, I guess the government assumes no one will take it seriously and really listen to what he had to say.
Don't quote me on the exact statistic, but I recall reading on one of the major news sites (MSNBC, perhaps?) that something like an estimated 74% of the population of the US believes that marijuana should be legalized. Personally, I never really thought about it until I was researching for a series of marijuana-related articles and learned a lot more about the plant, the issues surrounding the "war on drugs" and the punishment statistics...in some states, you get more of a sentence for possession of marijuana than for rape.
If this is a truly democratic voting structure, why is it still illegal? No matter what we as a population want, those who profit from outlawing marijuana will keep it illegal. These very same people may be snorting crack every weekend, but many seem to think that laws are the device by which "the masses" are kept under control and don't apply to those who make them. The laws will always follow the 1% with the money, plain and simple.
My Bible, when I was a teenager, said "ALL seed bearing herbs" HAHAHAHAAH my parents did NOT think it was funny...
for some reason, that particular verse was not to be taken litteraly?
It's a fact that alcohol kills more people and damages more lives than pot. (I don't smoke, but I support the rights of consenting adults). Pot became illegal long ago because of the ignorance about it. Ever watch reefer madness? It is impossible to keep drugs away from anybody because they are rampant throughout the country. If drugs were legal, where would all the drug dealers work? The government wants to control what it's citizens do and they have a real hard on about drugs. One particular tax credit excludes you if you have ever been convicted of felony drug possession, not trafficking, just possession. And only that. Any other felony is acceptable. Murder, rape, home invasion, etc. over 50% of the jail population is there on drug charges, do ya think they can get drugs inside? LOL. Well, I could go on and on, but I won't. Happy Holidays!
I realy don't know that much about anything but I do know that the government has been fighting the war on drugs since I was a little kid and it don't seem like we are winnin so I think that they need to think somtin else. Ya think?
This is a very simple problem full of complexity. A few key points need to be understood to make any sense out of it.
1. Current drug laws are NOT based on harm a substance can cause, but rather on it's accepted medical efficacy. That is why tobacco and alcohol are not illegal, because the laws aren't based on harm.
It is basically considered an infringement of your constitutional rights for the government to dictate what an individual does with his or her own body. But in order to help protect the citizens from unscrupulous purveyors of patent medicines to which a large portion of the country, some estimates put it at between 20%-30%, were addicted the Pure Food and Drug act was instituted in 1906. That was the start. Then as you go along the history of drug laws in the U.S. you find time and again that certain substances were outlawed in response to racial, political, or financial motivations. Finally we have the "Scheduling" of substances in 1971 which is based on their medical use and value. Recently the AMA called for a re-scheduling of marijuana in light of the overwhelming evidence of myriad medicinal applications.
I could go into great detail about this, but I should save it for a hub instead.
2.Given that the current laws are not based on harm we then need to understand that not all drugs are created equal. Marijuana is a schedule 1 substance, yet there is not a single recorded death from marijuana in the world....in all of recorded history!! Some substances that are scheduled lower and used in medicine are responsible for numerous deaths every day. I don't feel I need to even touch on alcohol and tobacco.
Simply if the drug laws were re-written based on harm and threat of addiction and addiction were treated as a medical issue rather than criminal, we would arrive at a much more sensible solution. If an honest assessment of the current situation were to be undertaken without any political, financial or religious agendas we would find that in reality the majority of problems stemming from drug use up to and including addiction are actually the result of the illegal status of many substances rather that the substance itself.
Legal and monitored access to these substances as well as honest and clear education in schools, not a DARE type program, I said honest, would go along way to ending many of the problems associated with substance use/abuse.
Ok,Ok! Send me everything you want legalized and I'll test it and get back to you, deal?
Check this for me will you sneak! This is grown from a $150.00 dutch seed for the Australian climate.
Fully mature in 3 months, no leaf, just purple and white tightly packed head.
This is the one designed to produce tetrahydrocannabinol or thc delta 9
Pain killer extraordinare!
There are honest and scientific drug guides out there, they should give kids the links.
Very good PBS, well stated.
Sorry but what does the war on drugs have to do with God?
You need to watch the video/listen to the song the OP linked to understand the relevance of the thread title.
I'm with you, video sucked, thread sucks, I keep saying suck.......
Rockabilly is a lost art in the States, it's where Big Country got it's roots, but now uses those roots to micterate upon. But that's another subject!
As for God, the Great Spirit gave us all the plants and animals to use to our benefit. Right now the only way we can use lots of those beneficial plants and animals, is if a company cans them, preserves them, and/or processes them. That way it's easier to tax us multiple times before we're granted use, instead of procuring them ourselves like Thomas Jefferson and George Washington demanded the original colonist do.
"What was done with the seed saved from the India Hemp last summer? It ought, all of it, to have been sewn again; that not only a stock of seed sufficient for my own purposes might have been raised, but to have disseminated the seed to others; as it is more valuable than the common Hemp."
Writings of Washington, Vol. 35, pg. 72
"If people let government decide which foods they eat and medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny."
"An acre of the best ground for hemp, is to be selected and sewn in hemp and be kept for a permanent hemp patch." - Thomas Jefferson's Garden book
Makes you wonder what kind of so called "Americans" have been legislating for the past 100 years doesn't it?
I bought a book for a friends birthday present called reefer madness, I haven't read it myself but it is along these lines I believe.
It's a war against people. There are going to be negative effects from legalization, but they have to be weighed against the positive effects. Like not putting people in jail for life because of 3 strikes laws. Making it nearly impossible for otherwise Good People who made a mistake to get a job because they have a criminal record due to possession.
People are going to use drugs - laws or no laws. 47 Million estimated cigarette smokers in the United States. And it's not like they don't know the risks.
Clearly there is a huge downside to recreational drug use. But there is a bigger downside to letting big brother tell people what they can and can not do. Just yesterday Yahoo ran a story that 1 in 5 High School Students used Marijuana in the past month. Lock them up?
The number of people in jails and prisons due to possession is staggering.
The Cost to society can not measured in wins/losses based on some big brother agenda.
"With an incarceration rate of 724 per 100,000 inhabitants, the United States is the unchallenged world leader in both raw numbers and imprisonment per capita. With a global prison population estimated at nine million, the US accounts for about one-quarter of all prisoners on the planet."
Rougly Half for drug related crimes.
The rich man has a cellar
and a ready butler by him.
The poor must steer
for his pint of beer
where the saint can't choose but spy him!
(Thomas Love Peacock - 19th C poet & novelist)
The war on drugs is a copyline not an actual war.
As is the War on Terror
I wish the special interests would get there damn copyline off my constitution.
I think Thomas Jefferson said that.
Thanks for all the input. It's good to know there's a lot of well rounded and open minded people out there.
In my opinion, the only reason that there is a war on drugs is because the government can not regulate and tax the drugs (which is a multi trillion dollar industry)
Drugs make people too much money, as long as the public has the desire and drug dealers can fulfill the need and profit from it---drugs will not be going anywhere.
There will always be some backyard or basement lab cooking toilet bowl cleaner or Midol...attempting to get high. The government cant control-and cant win the war on drugs, there is way too much money involved with it. The distributors way down deep within Mexico are like Gods (and are treated like Gods-would you want to give that up?)
Hey HC, what'r you doin' up?
Yeah what's been going on at the border is a little bit of hell from what the media has said. It's that multitrillion dollar industry that you're talking about, that's what has us by a chain. There are people in the pharma and health care industries that make hundreds of thousands of dollars per hour! So far I have made $5 on my adsense revenue in about 2 months, wonder who politicians will listen to more?
When I lived in Chicago I'd see blown up meth labs aka formerly good places to live, completely torched and blown up, looked like something out of a Vietnam documentary.
Mexico is not a place that I would want to take a vacation. People, especially police are gunned down daily. The Cartel gives ultimatums, take this money and look the other way, or take this bullet between the eyes and never see your wife and kids again. It is the Cartel against the Police and One Cartel against another. Lots of money involved-mixed with lots of drugs-and a fight for power. Drugs are still crossing over into the United States. The war on drugs is a joke-there will always be someone willing and wanting to step up and take charge, even if they do capture or kill a major player.
Thanks for the insight! Can you imagine how quickly those cartels would be made impotent by bringing that crop back home instead of relenting it to our southern neighbors.
Great video BC, (as a former Illinois resident) I've been voting and siding with Obama for a long time. He is smarter then he lets on! It would be political suicide for any President to be forthright about re-legislating marijuana and hemp. At the top, like the band Bad Religion says, "it's leaders who follow us."
As medicinal marijuana is already on the books in, I believe it's 15 states right now, it's only a matter of time before Americans voices are heard through the greed. If you look closer at this administrations policy, you'll see that at least they stopped the Federal raids on medicinal marijuana distributors, the admins quoted memo was something to the effect, "that agents have better uses for their time."
I know personally of at least one law enforcement officer who was glad to hear it, and I know that there are medical and law enforcement groups that advocate legalization.
Thanks for the video link, it was great. I started to get lost, you leave a linky trail BC! LOL.
This is a very good point, and I think the framework is definitely there for eventual legality, but they'll either hold out until the last possible second, or until it's not making money anymore. That sentence really jumped out at me because along with being a freelance writer, I am also a freelance transcriptionist. One of my recent jobs was a speech by FW de Klerk about some of the issues he had implementing his policies...he talked about having to pretend to agree with his opponents so that they would trust him, and then very carefully -- over years -- win them over to his way of thinking. He knew the form of government was wrong, but you don't just waltz into a bunch of old politicians and say, "You're doing it wrong, here's how you need to change."
Yes, sweet sweet validation, thank you wychic!
The 'war on drugs' is just a convenient loophole that allows the government to lock up poor people and immigrants. If there was a real 'war on drugs' going on, I wouldn't be watching some dippy corporate drug commercial every two minutes on every channel on cable TV.
I saw a commercial for something or other, one of the side effects was ...death..
they actually said, headach, nasuea,blah blah and rarely but sometimes a serious condition tha can cause death...
and that crap is legal. I know people who snort pills...come on, a war on drugs?
There is some progress and maybe it will come to fruition soon.
http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/thehuman … ow-no.aspx
But it still needs to overcome the misinformation regarding drugs and lies twisting the truth;
http://www.opposingviews.com/articles/o … 1260992206
HMMM? I wonder how they will deal with the fact that LSD has virtually no negative physiological side effects and is being researched to relieve cluster headaches. Do we see a re-scheduling in it's future as well?
http://www.neurology.org/cgi/content/ab … 66/12/1920
I guess I gabbed this thread to death! Anyway, if any one should read this again, my main point was that God does not make mistakes but mankind certainly does.
Living plants and animals were created by the Great Spirit not to be abused or banned, but to be used and honored. Relenting our God given freedom is equal to creating suffering among the people of the world.
I don't need a god to have that freedom.
I respect your belief (or lackthereof?) EH, it's difficult not to respect a guy like you who stands behind his words, and still has a sense of humor at the same time.
Ben, that was nice! Thank you. I gather you are not a screamin fundy then?
No fundamental foolery in my noggin! I was raised in a hellfire Roman Catholic tradition, twenty years of that was enough! I'm still a firm believer, but now I like to listen to everybodies' take, even the atheists. I used to have friendly spar/arguments with an atheist guy who studied a lot of Nietzsche and Kierkegaard, good times!
Mostly my belief is that so called "primitive" people had a better understanding of the spiritual realm, your Aborigines, my American Indians.
Not saying it to try and persuade you though Earnest, just laying out my interests.
I do agree. I have lived in the Northern Territory for two years, and had many good times with my very spiritual aboriginal brothers.
Awesome EH, I have to go see if you've written about that experience. I didn't mean to sound pompous about "listening to atheists too" earlier! Hope I didn't come across that way.
To use your words, I'm not a big fan of "fundys" either. Thanks for sharing, I got to get some sleep now, or my wife will hang me high.
Man I wish I could swing the bucks to go to Austrailia, I like heat, and I think I could really take some aggression out on those marine toads you all have down under!
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