In the first Century AD there were at least thirty varieties of Christianity.What did they believe and why are they not around today?
Any one read "Lost Christianities" by Bart D Ehrman.I highly recommend it.
In fact, I know of at least three that are still around. The Orthodox Church, the Coptic Orthodox Church, and one other that escapes me.
Some sects died out (such as the Gnostics); some were persecuted, such as the Arians, some like the Sabellians, just stopped making the news and, I guess, eventually died out. Most except the Copts recanted whatever their "heresy" was and were welcomed back into the Orthodox church. Will Durant covers this brilliantly in the second and third volumes of The Story of Civilization.
There is no need for the children of God to assimilate themselves into sects instead they should assimilate themselves into life.
Where there is only one, Christ is able to supply the deficiency but where there is only two, then all things are possible.
When the time for gathering comes, those Who posses His Spirit, will hear that inarticulate, inaudible call.
We need not fear.
Oh dear. What a kontradiktion we have. No need to assimilate into sects because jeebus will assimilate the chosen few when he comes back.
Oh - I have read the biybel sweetie pie. I know what it says. And you are so incredibly wrong it would be funny if people like you had not been causing wars for the last 2000 years.
Trust me - I have nothing to learn from you other than "how not to do it."
And it is people who think the way you do that wiped out the other christian sects.
Do you think fire cleanses the soul?
And Who made me your teacher?
Who ask you to follow me or anyone else?
Why are you dancing to a rythm that I did not play?
Did my few lines say so much?
Is there anything else?
I also trust that you did not expect nor need my answer to your question.
I see you are avoiding the question and now lying about the fact that you are preaching at me. At all of us in fact. The darkness does indeed present itself as a pretender to the light.
Thank you once again.
Men have eyes to see what they want to see in everything and therefore all will stands on his two feet.
That The way it has been and will always be.
All I can do is speak the truth and leave the rest be.
You are merely receiving what you perceive is yours.
Why then blame me?
I reject it.
You are the one who said it. I hold you responsible for what you say and thank you for reminding me why I despise your religion and all it stands for. Quite disgusting actually. Just a few hundred years ago, people who believe what you believe were burning non believers. Simple. You have no truth to speak. Merely hate mongering and lies. Disgusting how you feel you can say what you like and then blame it on an invisible super being.
Be a man - be responsible for your own actions and words and do not lie and pretend you never said them.
Not sure why you are lying about this. Scroll up.
Still did not answer - do you think fire cleanses the soul?
My Dear Mr. knowles I am quite happy to allow you to believe what you like.
If I am a liar in your eyes, then
...so be it...
And since I cannot teach you anything, please be smart and do not ask of me anything.
Sweetie pie. I asked you a straight forward question. You are the one preaching the Word. I merely suggested you be a man and stand up for what you said instead of hiding behind the skirts of an invisible super being and saying your are speaking the truth when you are parroting hate mongering garbage from a book I too have read.
The reason I asked you the question is because of your parroting the hate mongering. In olden times, when they had the power - people who believe what you do used to burn people to "cleanse their souls."
So - once again I ask you - do you think that fire cleanses the soul?
No, "fear not" was always the message of the angels. How is it, then, that religions always manipulate their followers through fear? Fear of dying without the sacraments; fear of those other religions; fear of apostasy or heresy. The main reason for religion is the power of critical mass. The tribe I belong to will have the power to bully all those others. I am going to get raptured up, go to heaven where I get to screw x number of virgins and you are not. The language is alway patriarchal. A few centuries ago, priests exhorted men to beat their women to keep them in line. New Sharia law, Christian though Muslim, is again the new norm for religions.
I am enjoying this forum a great deal; for the most part, it is fueled by knowledge and analysis. Just a couple of thoughts on the issues discussed: 1) the current religious right (Christian through Muslim) seem to share the same ironic twists--they don't even pretend to practice the basics of their religions, and 2) isn't religion just the brick walls we bump into on the way to the development of our own individual sense of responsibility and awareness because I am not seeing those things in religion. Modern religions, as has always been the case, are more about limiting the actions of others than they are about developing the practioners' own moral behavior. Religion is simply tribalism set to bad music.
Gnostics were persecuted too, by Muslims as well as by conventional Christians. The fate of the Cathars in the middle ages is one of the prime examples of persecution of Gnostics by Christians.
The Cathars did see strict asceticism and avoidance of procreation as a spiritual ideal, however this idea is not integral to Gnosticism.
Gnostics believe that the divine spark is present in every individual. The personal, totally individual and private process of attaining full knowledge of this fact, and thus attaining union with Deity, is the goal of a Gnostic. This is a philosophy that is common to mystics arising out of all and no religious backgrounds.
True Gnostics pose a threat to any organised religion because they do not need priests or sacraments. They also do not need any official interpretation of sacred texts or any religious dogma, because each person has to find his/her own truth.
Now - I agree with you about people like Deborah and Mo. They had a glimpse of something larger than themselves, erroneously jumped to a conclusion as to what it was, and arrogantly believe they understand it and give it a name. LOL
But - because they cannot actually define it, and do not actually know what it is, they are forced to tell you that you would not understand or speak in gobbledegook in an effort to persuade you they have some esoteric knowledge that makes them special.
Which is why I despise religion - it always - throughout our entire history - ends up this way.
Those few cultures that developed with a respect for nature and the equilibrium needed were wiped out as soon as they came into contact with a monotheistic religion.
But - you are not happy either way Marine.
I say "I don't know," and you accuse me of religiously defending science when all science says is, "these are the facts and this is the best explanation we have so far."
You will even attack proven facts as not absolute enough for you.
And you do not like it when the LOL enlightened ones LOL who were "gifted," convikted or "saw the light," whatever, tell you that your intellectual capacity is too small to grasp the secrets they have been given with out having to do any work.
So - where do you stand?
All I see you do is argue with everyone. Clearly you are not looking for an answer because as far as I can tell, you prefer to ignore any you do get, but you never do anything but take the contrary position.
I really appreciate you writing this Knowles. Excellent thoughts, questions, and feedback. I also enjoy seeing that I guessed right that Deborah believes she is an enlightened prophet just as Mohit that claims her belief is too "vast" for the "unenlightened" to understand. lol
I agree that religion is built on deceit, it is hard for me to say that all religion is ignorant as absolute. Sometimes deceit is better than the truth to some. If everyone realized it as deceit, what would bring people together to go beyond themselves if they didn't believe they had a purpose beyond themselves? Do some not need a motivation outside of themselves to feel important or of importance?
When you say that I am not happy with any to few answers, I think you are right. In my personal philosophy, I see happy as content. If I am happy with the answers I get, I will often stop asking questions. If I am unhappy, I will keep asking questions and keep learning. I enjoy you or anyone else that is honest enough with themselves to admit not knowing rather than trying to lie about knowing something. I think when you can get to the bottom of something to find out someone admitting to not knowing, it exposes whether they have honesty or they are lying simply to justify their belief. I think it also exposes dependency on a belief when someone will lie in protection.
On the absolutes, I agree with little to nothing as absolute simply to keep learning and expanding the questions and ideas. I see absolute as happy and content with the answers. If I am absolute, I stop asking questions. I think absolutes leave little to no room for error, they require every aspect to be explained without room for interpretation.
Where do I stand? I guess on my own because I am not content with standing as someone else. I do not always argue, I agree with many people and have often agreed with you on many things. There is nothing wrong with disagreeing, I think truth is found through disagreement and debate. Just because I don't respond to all comments doesn't mean I am ignoring them. Maybe it means I am taking the ideas in without writing an argument on impulse.
I think early christian history is fascinating. I'm going to check out those books. thanks.
Good idea, pay particular attention to the Crusades and the Inquisition to see just how cruel Christianity can be.
Oh and pay attention to what the Taliban are up to in Pakistan, and the Shites and Sunis do to each to other, then see how cruel Islam can be.
If religion and government didn't create religion to govern, what would keep some humans from acting like animals if they believed they weren't of more importance than other animals? Possibly the deceit holds some to morals that otherwise wouldn't be strong enough to have morals without religious belief. Some are dependent on others for morals.
Hmmm... how about simple trial and error method?
Let's say you decided to act like an animal within the group of people you relate to each day. How long will it take you to figure out how quickly you'll be all alone trying to survive?
Or, let's say you decided you were going to work together with others for the benefit of both your survival needs?
Nothing, because those "governing" under those religious principles see no problem with torture, murder, theft of public property, and debauchery of the public good for personal gain.
Morals are not natural or instinctive. Morals are taught or passed down from generation to generation.
Hey Kess, what's wrong? You seem like you cannot handle adversity.
Adversity, that what you refer to this exchange of words.
This is life for me, and in here this is nothing.
Well, I would say that is your first problem. You lack real understanding for the words you use in public. Oh well, on to bigger and better things. Have fun.
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