Is it possible to become "unsaved"?
At one point in time I believed and felt, "saved". But now, even when I try to reconnect, I don't "feel" like I am anymore. Perhaps, I am so longer saved, and perhaps, I never ever really was. What am I missing here?
The Bible tells us to walk by faith, not by sight.
I don't know your situation so I am going to put some general ideas out there for you.
Imagine you are walking across a bridge with the Lord. You are talking as you go, walking along the center. The water starts raising and laps up around the sides of the bridge. You walk over to the edge of the bridge and hear the water crashing and making noise. You can no longer hear the voice of the Lord. The only sound you hear is the raging water. Sometimes, we need to get back to center.
Jesus is our anchor. An anchor does not keep a ship from moving or drifting. it is designed to keep it from moving too far. When the limit is reached, the anchor will check the ship.
Backsliding is something most don't seem to believe in anymore. I don't believe you are backslidden or you would not have asked this question. A backslider can come back to the Lord if they would only repent as they did in the beginning. Remember, the shepherd will leave the 99 to go after the 1 that is lost.
I am not sure if any of this helps you but I am sure it will help someone.
So we are all supposed to be blind and follow whatever we hear? Listen to the small voice inside of you for that is the voice that is GOD for that is where God and the kingdom is...WITHIN you. 4 each it is a diffferent answer. U an God Never leave.
"Backsliding" is the evangelical Christan explanation for someone who is trying to exercise their Reason while also trying to make Christian doctrine make sense. Those who are not totally devoted to the fantasy are looked down upon.
Robert, you described an apostate. LG, there is only one voice of God but many different voices. Learn which is real and which are deceitful.
Same to you SirDent. Learn which things are Brainwashing and which are not. Perhaps you could read my hub about how the church keeps you and learn their tactics.
LG. brainwashing. Do what you want, all will be well. Jesus said, "Follow me." You call me blind but who is really blind?
SirDent, why do you do this? I am not better than you and you are not better than I. Just stop trying to pick a fight. I won't fight you and this only shows that you are AFRAID to read my hub.
Your posts always seem to want confrontation. You never agree with anything if it doesn't agree with your world view. I am not trying to pick a fight but trying to stop one.
Really? I cannot help the way that you read my posts. I do not mean to do that and you know that else you would not call me a friend. I have been thru hell and back. I walk my talk and talk the walk.U talk as if I know nothing.
I am also friends with some atheists. Doesn't mean I agree with their lifestyles. You come off like you are an authority. You tell people they have to do nothing, they will be in heaven anyway. You are wrong.
SirDent, No I do not and who says anyway. I can read the Bible and I Know what Jesus said about heaven and how to love they neighbor and all that. You changed from when I first started talking to you on Yuwie. It was not a subtle change either.
Believe what you will. I see what I see even if you can't see it. Best to let it be.
Jesus never said anything about being un-saved. He never said anything about believing blindly either. He did say Seek and Ask and he didn't say in the Bible ONLY. Not Everything is in the Bible and that is in the Bible. I believe Jesus's words.
It may mean that you are reaching the age of reason, as so many never do. Perhaps, it is akin to that first love that you will never, ever be able to live without, but then you do.
The question may be, not what you are missing, but what you have gained and that may very well be the ability to ask reasoned questions questions.
You are who God told you that you are and leading a life that only is a contract between YOU and God and no one else. Get away from the Church and read all that Jesus has said and written, not some one else and do not believe what Paul in the Bible says. He and Jesus were not even close to each other, in physical form, life age or beliefs.
Listen to that small voice WITHIN you and it is only for YOU. That is the God WITHIN you and the whole of that kingdom is WITHIN you too.
Follow YOUR bliss for it is only for you. Others have their own bliss they should be following.
Love is all there is! In the Bible God said that he would never leave you...why...because he is WITHIN you. It is life and blood and that which gives life and it can never leave you for that is what you are.
Lady... could you please provide proof of what you are saying about Paul and Christ? Is it not Christ's blood which has saved us?
I will not to you. I do not and will not feed your insatiable need to cause trouble here. Look it up yourself.
Cause trouble? I was just curious as to how you came to this conclusion. Remember, if we are to claim to be Christians we are to act as Christians. Thank you Lady. This is precisely what I thought about this horrendous accusation.
In case you don’t know but you are not saved by the blood of Christ, but by His Life (Romans 5:10).
“For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we “shall” be saved by his l
flpalermo.... I agree. We are saved by what Christ has done for us and his blood that was shed on Calvary. We must accept this of course in order to be saved.
Flpalermo and Jeff...thanks for illustrating just one of the thousands of differences in Christian doctrine. Christians have discussed these things for thousands of years and never have come to unity.
When you know that you know that you know. My friend once one is saved their names are written into the lambs book of life. And no, God does not erase these names. If you are truly saved by the blood of Christ then you are being convicted to come back to him. The prodigal son in the Bible was welcomed home after he had seen the dark side of life. God will always welcome his children home.
Does that mean that we will not continue to sin; of course not. All men fall short of the glory of God daily. This is why Christ had to experience (God in the flesh) iniquity. We all must "strive" to do what is pleasing to God. If we fail; we of course always will, we have Jesus Christ as our deliverer.
In Christianity, the concept of being "saved" is really only the point at which your surrender your reasoning abilities and instead accept the unprovable doctrines of sin, judgment, the diety of Jesus, and salvation.
At that point you are convinced that your natural reasoning abilities are evil and not to be trusted, so you exercise "faith" in the those things which can only be accepted without evidence.
Believers love to point out the "miraculous" change that a person experiences when they are "saved." This should not be surprising however because that person is giving up one worldview for a (likely) completely different one. What many Christians don't realize however is that when many people once again change their worldview and no longer believe in those unprovable teachings, the change in that person can be just as "miraculous" as the change that led them into Christianity!
Joel, I can understand your confusion. The subject of "salvation" is not clear in Christianity. Some sects say one can never lose salvation. Others say you can lose it by your deeds. Still others say it was never your choice to begin with, and you can't know if you are saved anyway. All claim that the Bible teaches their version of salvation. So it's no surprise that you are confused, given the monstrously huge subject which is "Christian Doctrine."
In short, when someone is thorougly convinced of a certain ideology (in this case Christianity) on which their entire worldview is built, only to radically change positions, this can cause a major emotional and mental upheaval in that person's life. This radical change is often attributed to "God," but we see that it can be explained quite easily.
Joel, I hope you use this opportunity to search out what you really believe and view with suspicion those things that are not founded on evidence and reason. The search for truth is not easy, but it is well worth the effort. Good luck to you.
Salvation is freely given to ALL who are called by the Holy Spirit. Joel, I think in your case God is convicting you to come back to him and eternity in Heaven. PLEASE do not listen to an atheist on this VERY serious life decision.
Jeff, your opinion is just an opinion, like mine. The Bible has been interpreted in thousands of different ways by hundreds of differenct sects. If you ignore Reason, you ignore your tool to decipher truth.
Robert--Your response brought this to mind by M. Luther, "“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has--" Therein lies the problem.
CJ, without faith---an irrational acceptance of claims without evidence---religion could not hold on to the masses. It's quite revealing that as societies become more knowledgeable and educated, religion declines.
Thank you all so much...as I read and re read the answers thus far (and I need to hear it all...), I am overwhelmed by the conviction of all... I've gone for years pondering the question...being afraid to ask it out loud. I was raised in a "Christian" Family, went to private "Christian" schools, was a spirtual leader for 17 years in a huge "Christian" business, taught Sunday School, organized several ministries...and yet...here I am...
You are very welcome Joel. I truly hope you find your way. May God bless you and your family always!
Totally understandable, Joel. I can relate. Christianity can provide a frame of reference but it cannot answer all questions in a satisfying way. The conundrums are staggering. I hope you choose to exercise Reason as you go forward.
You are missing nothing, but perhaps you have found something. Truth. Many of the answers have focused on you listening to that little voice as if that little voice isn't you. It is you as we all have it, but some pretend it's something else. We can tell it's us because that little voice can't tell us anything we don't already know.
Are you saved right now?
There is no doubt that Salvation and the Kingdom of God come AT THE SAME TIME.
Revelation 12:10 “And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ…”
This event takes place, according to the word of God the Holy Bible, at the 7th. Trumpet sound.
Before the 7 Trumpets are sounded, Jesus Christ opens the 7 Seals of the book given to Him by His Father.
No man in heaven nor in earth…was able to open and read the book. The book contains the world shaking events that will take place before His return.
But, “…behold, the lion of the tribe of Judah, the root of David, has prevailed to open the book and to loose the seven seals thereof.”
And He (Christ – the root of David) came and took the book out of the right hand of Him that sat upon the throne (the Father) Revelation 5:7 “And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for you were slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth (Revelations 5:10).
The book contains the worldwide events that will take place during the great tribulation and the day of the Lord, BEFORE the establishment of the Kingdom of God, at His return.
1. Religious deception
2. Wars and rumors of war
6. Persecution of Christ’s followers
7. Jerusalem surrounded by armies and Abomination of Desolation set up.
8. Great tribulation 3 1/2 years
9. Signs in the heavens
Have you experienced ANY of these things yet?
Salvation and the Kingdom of God come TOGETHER at the same time (Revelations 12:10).
Are you saved right now?
Or do you have a TOKEN of Salvation?
Is it possible to become un-born?
No, we can lose our way, we can listen to the enemy and his agents and be deceived, but we cannot be unborn, nor can we be unsaved.
We may not get the anticipated rewards in eternity, we may be uncomfortable when we are stood before God and all the assembled saints as our lives are stripped of all inconsequential elements we have accumulated, but we will still be loved and cherished and blessed, because our gift was eternal life, not feeling good on earth, not being a great Christian, not anything except the love of God via His Son Yeshua, and freedom from the domain of the enemy.
Been there, almost gave up, got the T shirt just stopped wearing it.
We have nothing to prove, there is no way to earn salvation any more than there is to lose it, we are human, God knows that, knows we are handicapped by our sinful natures, knows that when we are weak, we may falter and stumble.
But that's when He shows His strength and manifests His glory, because when we fall, He is there to catch us and restore us just as soon as we accept His mercy and forgiveness, which of course follows our confession and acceptance of our sin, and repentance.
To be this troubled, you must be worth the effort, the enemy has sought to destroy you, so God must have some better plan for your life, because He has allowed you to be tested in the fire.
Take a look at Bill Johnsons ministry, you may find it revives your spirit and ignites your passion again.
Enjoy, you have eternity to look forward to.
Like a planet orbiting its sun, you will find at times you are close to the feeling, and at other times far from it.
This is an inadequate analogy, but other metaphors may help.
In the spiritual science of authentic Kabbalah (not the New Age, Hollywood junk followed by Madonna and other celebrities), there are 125 levels of spiritual steps back toward oneness with God. Each step has its own challenges. In the metaphor of a ladder, each rung has a different challenge.
One or more of those rungs may include the challenge of unbelief -- of lost feeling of connectedness. You have to feel your way back toward God, because the rungs of the ladder are the same steps used to gain distance from Him. You have the answers within you. The memory is there. God has given them to you.
As SirDent says, keep the Faith. Faith is the perfection of confidence. This confidence is not arrogant, so long as we are humble about the direction of the path. If we have Faith that God will lead us, and we keep our desire for the destination, then we will continue on the path.
Even Jesus said that the path is narrow and difficult. Some people sit down on the path and think they have arrived. Sad but true.
Another metaphor is that of an onion. Each layer of ego we peel off of ourselves is a different dichotomous vector. Ego is made up of many such vectors. Good-Evil is only one of them. Certainty-Doubt is another.
From your description, it sounds as though you have merely stopped on the path and are wondering about the direction. Part of the lessons we each need to learn on the path back to God is achieved only by having the faith that the answer will come to us and maintaining the hunger to be there at our destination -- Love (God).
I too have felt this "lost feeling" rung on the ladder. It took me awhile to get past it. I didn't realize that I need to keep the faith and the hunger.
Unsaved? Yes, it's possible, if you turn around on the path and head the other way -- back toward egoistic selfishness and separateness.
At a Christmas party years ago, a Christian was thrilled finally to be saved, for now he could commit any crime and be guaranteed a place in heaven. Delusion! He was following ego and thinking that he was following Christ. He was arrogant about it and would not hear anything that contradicted what his minister had proclaimed to him. He had needed an excuse to follow the lusts of his heart.
If only he knew that True Religion is True Love without self-concern.
I do not know that you ever really was, although I can very well understand your predicament. Many are still travelling this road. The fact that you have awakened in itself is one for much rejoicing. The veil has gone. Now the hard work begins. My Spiritual Mentor has an aphorism that goes like this:
"O Bible, the Saviour has taken away my sins, will you not take away my little, little worries at least?" Worth pondering.
The spiritual life requires the descent of Grace and personal effort. They are like twins and go together. The time will definitely come when one realises that all is His Grace, but before this, self-effort is necessary. Now to go back to your question, the spiritual life is based on experience and as such one living in that state has no need of your questions. They simply do not arise.
One is neither saved nor unsaved. One becomes closer to the Divine through internal and external prayer; selfless service to mankind and the flow of inner awakening, leading to union or oneness with God. Much peace.
Man: "Grace & personal effort" doesn't mix! Read Eph 2:8-9! Move "Beyond the Cross!" Gal 2:21 "I do not make void the "GRACE" of God; for if righteousness come by the LAW (self effort), then Christ is dead in vain!"
Fine, I am a servant, and a gentle one. You are God's child, not mines. I would be really happy as long as you do what gives you joy.
I think that the most important factor in your feeling "saved" or "unsaved" is faith. If you believe what the bible says, and truly believe it in your heart, then you will know that your are "saved". You will know that you're saved for two reasons:
1. Romans 10:9; "If you declare with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."
2. Romans 10:10; "For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved."
When I lost faith in my native religion, Catholicism, I didn't have the feeling of becoming "unsaved". Indeed, I felt like I had been lied to; it was as if somebody had told me I had a million dollars in a bank account that I can't access just now, but I will get it in the future. And then I found out that they lied, and I probably don't have a million dollars anywhere.
So, rather than feeling "unsaved", I instead felt that "saved" had never existed in the first place. It sucked, of course, and I suppose in the context of a religious conversation, I am now "unsaved".
So, again, in the context of a religious conversation (assuming American-Christianity is the topic of discussion), it is absolutely possible to become "unsaved", as I am a good example.
Hope that helped!
Even Jesus, the son of God uttered, in his heightened moment of anguish on the cross: "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
Then what's there to talk of ordinary mortals like us? When we study, we have to face the examination at some time or other. Examinations are meant to be tough, else, how will we prove that we have learned the subject?
Ramakrishna Pramahamsa said "Even non-belief is a step in the quest of God". He also used to say, "People, for whom cultivation is the source livelihood over generations, will not forsake farming if monsoon fails in a year or unprecedented floods damage the crop. They will continue to do the cultivation the next year; for they know that's the way of life".
Yes, it is possible. There are people in the world who do not have the right to serve God. You can serve God - only in one case - if you can not serve (if you have a choice). In Belarus and in Russia does not exist death penalty but there is life imprisonment . Serial killers can serve God only before life imprisonment. If you have a freedom to choose only then you can choose god for yourself!
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