Is It Possible To Lose Salvation?
Once saved, always saved or not? Verse or scriptural support for answers please.
Actually what Christ teaches is that only "the one who has endured to the end will be saved." - Matthew 24:13
This necessarily means, then, that no one is "saved." All sedulous Christians must continue 'working out our own salvation' until the very end of this system of things. (Philippians 2:12)
Taking one scripture out of context doesn't make it a doctrine. Does that scripture say "only" the one who has endured to the end will be saved. NO! You should study what the whole bible says of this and put that statement into context.
How about taking anything out of context?
And TSAD I listed more then one on the subject. If Jesus says we have to prove faithful till the end .that is truth.
Agreed Joe, so why have you done so? Not only that, you also misstated scripture as Matthew 24:13 doesn't teach "only," yet you say it does.
Tsad you showed a scripture at John10:28, but you you left out the important part.
But you do not believe, because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them everlasting life,
The question that is never answered correctly is when does Jesus give them eternal life? It is at the end of the race, then no one will snatch them out of His hand. The away from me I never knew you comes to mind. OSAS is man twisted doctrine.
One cannot "endure until the end" until they KNOW what to "endure" in which is the Gospel of Christ (Gal 1:6-9)! Follow Acts 2:42 as did the disciples under New Covenant or LOST! What end? We KNOW in this world if saved! I Jn tells us we KNOW!
We don't want to take anything out of context so read
Luke 13:23-30, it is a story to answer the question: "Lord are there few that are saved?"
Very true as JP.states , even Jesus gives a judgment after one has been practicing religious faith,
Notice, Math7: 21 “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’23 And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness.
Notice that these are works performed , and a judgment was given that he did not know them.
Here once saved was never saved because people did not follow Jesus foot steps or instructions , what ever the way he wanted things done must be done the way he did it
Many people have fooled themselves to believe their worship is acceptable. But really they are far from the truth.
That is why self examination , reading, studying , and applying never gets old, we must maintain a healthy spiritual life as we do a healthy physical life. Because both can die.
We also must not overlook that two beings are envolved with our salvation while some believe just one. Notice Jesus said the one doing the will of my Father, people will claim to do the lords work but he will deny them.because they deny the Father.
KT,I don't know how many times you need to be told before you realize JW's is a cult&your JW interpretations have been proven scriptural incorrect by any study of true Christianity,are you under some kind of mind control? Do a simple Google searc
Tsad here are those who do not listen. That are not his sheep but are claiming a relationship.
The other is because they listen and follow his instructions. The way he said.they follow his voice. What a difference .
Claiming and doing is.
I Agree TSAD! These "beings" spoken of sounds like 2 diff gods to me! God is an OMNIPRESENT Spirit! ALL GLORIES simultaneously if desired! No one should LIMIT God!
The Demiurge was cast out of heaven into hell. So, when you're even saved into heaven, there's still a chance to go to hell.
You're not saved for eternity.
To TSAD If satan test you you may not know what it was or what will keep you from the what Jesus will give you.
But we know for sure it is Jesus who has the last word.
KT Yes Jesus has the last word, that's why he said "I give them eternal life and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. No one includes Satan. Buildreps can't provide scriptures in context to his point as Phoenix asks.
Norine I have never doubted God's word , I doubt the people who use it like a weapon and run people away from the truth , because of their pride and ego.
Jesus was a teacher he did not run people away but he drew thousands he could not find rest .
It would seem that the problem herein lies at the heart of "being saved". Once truly saved always saved. Many go through a time of great feelings and intellectual activities centered around an idea of "being saved". And they and others declare that they are saved. But in essence they have not really been reborn, but rather their old self goes through changes. It is very difficult and requires much faith and spiritual devotion to actually rid ourselves of the old self. We see the addict who finds Christ. They simply change one addiction for another remaining in self.We see money worshipers who switch to worshiping God, yet they have in essence merely switched gods.
But one who has truly lost the old self cannot go back to it, for it is gone. The new creation in Christ cannot backslide, for there is not a back to slide to.
So the question is not whether or not one who is saved can be lost again, but rather "were they ever really saved in the first place?"
The fundamental base that we fellow Christians must hold true is that once truly in the embrace we are forever there. And so we must treat our fellows who seem to have lost there way as really folks who have yet to find it in their heart and soul. The life road is long and tough, and by taking that journey in an earnest desire to be with Christ we will find that we may stumble out of that Grace. And if that be the case we must go back to our core and try once again to be truly saved.
It is truly a beautiful thing, no priest or person can declare us saved. We cannot even make it so by declaring it ourselves. We can give of ourselves to it completely, but only God and time will determine if we have truly been saved.
New World Translation
Lu 22:31“Simon, Simon, look! Satan has demanded to have all of you to sift you as wheat.
Jas 1:12 Happy is the man that keeps on enduring trial, because on becoming approved he will receive the crown of life,
Well said Eric,Jeremiah 17:9-The heart [is] deceitful above all[things],and desperately wicked:who can know it?James1:22-25-But be ye doers of the word,& not hearers only,deceiving your own selves.Only God can know who has really accepted Jesus.
Well put brother Eric! Indeed it is only the shepherd who truly knows his sheep! We can all speculate and say what we purport to know but eventually and ultimately it is God who truly knows who is really saved and who is not.
Did you all forget I John 5:13 which says we "KNOW?" Did it LIE?
Neither does it about this scripture ,
Joh 14:17 the spirit of the truth, which the world cannot receive, because it neither sees it nor knows it. You know it, because it remains with you and is in you.
Not all people will see truth and know it .
So taking one or a couple scriptures out of context which don't mean what you think they do is OK? There are verses that say you cannot lose your salvation. There can be no contradiction in the inspired Word of God-only in our uninspired misunderstanding.
Do you believe you can be saved on your deathbed? The most high-profile death bed/last-minute conversion to Christ in the Bible is the case of the criminal crucified alongside Jesus (Luke 23:39-43). Do you think the thief who was crucified with Christ endured to the end? Endured what, being crucified for being a criminal? Only moments before his own death, this criminal had been an unbelieving mocker of Christ (Matthew 27:44). However, at the last moment the criminal repented acknowledged Jesus as the heavenly King. Did the Lord say, “Today you shall be with Me in Paradise.” or was He kidding?
Do you have more questions about the Bible? This is a good place to go to find answers.
"Although the story of the criminal on the cross demonstrates that last-minute conversions are possible, the Bible warns us to repent now, without waiting another moment. John the Baptist warned, 'Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand” (Matthew 3:2). Jesus had the identical message concerning the need for immediate repentance, 'Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand' (Matthew 4:17).
The Bible warns us concerning the brevity of the human lifespan. 'You are just a vapor that appears for a little while and then vanishes away' (James 4:14). We are not instructed to consider converting someday, but to believe today! 'Today if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts' (Hebrews 3:7-8, 14; 4:7). We may die in a sudden, unexpected manner that will preclude a deathbed conversion. The only reasonable option is to repent and believe in Jesus Christ today.
Many people die without having the experience of an extended amount of time on a death bed. Many people die instantly and unexpectedly, with no opportunity to trust in Christ. 2 Corinthians 6:2 declares, 'In the time of my favor I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped you. I tell you, now is the time of God's favor, now is the day of salvation.'"
You want scriptures go to the link I gave, a much better place than Hub Pages to ask questions, here you will get lots of wrong & misguided opinions.
The salvation in Christ is not temporary, it is eternal. If we could lose our salvation, it would be lost forever.
Re 2:10 . Look! The Devil will keep on throwing some of you into prison so that you may be fully put to the test, and you will have tribulation for ten days. Prove yourself faithful even to death, and I will give you the crown of life.
What do you have when you take the text out of context? You are left with a con. This scripture was used wrong just as TSAD said. of what it reads.
Matt 24:9-14,9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
This is talking about people going through persecution even unto death. But YOU or whoever stands through this persecution fights the good fight tell the end of your "persecution" troubles, will be saved. It is not talking "salvation" saved.
Now can we lose our salvation, First of all salvation is a "Gift" from God. There is nothing we did to win it, or gain it.
Romans 5:17 (NIV) 17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!
What believers do is they take the system of the world and apply it to their Christian life Instead of depending on the gift they depend on their self-efforts to try to deserve God's forgiveness. There is nothing you can do to deserve his forgiveness or blessings, for they are based entirely on receiving Jesus and through His finished work, the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness.
Hebrews 10:14(NIV) 14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
Are my sins covered, yes and not just the passed sins but my future sins also. You ask how and call me crazy...okay...When Jesus died on the cross I was not even thought of but yet he died for me, so all my sins were going to in the future, I had not even committed a sin yet. BUT they were forgiven. Now does that give me the right to sin, no.
We are to work out our salvation with fear and tremble. again here is that word "work," remember, nothing i can do,it's not me.
Truly my soul finds rest in God;
my salvation comes from him.
Truly he is my rock and my salvation;
he is my fortress, I will never be shaken
I believe NO we can not UNLESS we chose to walk.
To CG you have written truth in scripture .of what is being said, the problem for me is that I used my allotted space already in comments. When posting scriptures I can not cover it all without running out.
there is no debate here. just the truth.
Kiss and tales, Thank you for your words. There are a whole lot more to say concerning this topic but not enough allotted characters. As you said, there are more scriptures that shows God's love and forgiveness, and his grace. The waterfall of grace.
How do you reconcile your philosophy with what's recorded at Hebrews 10:26,27, 29-31?
@ Joesph, verse 26, Knowledge is NOT salvation. you hear the truth but still reject the KNOWLEDGE and keep on sinning, since there is only one way for salvation but rejected the truth now you are left with no other way for salvation.
Salvation is excepting the truth and turning from your sins. Being "saved" Knowledge is just hearing it. Everyday I hear knowledge about something, I chose to except what I hear or I can reject it.
So your belief is that after someone has accepted the truth and repented from their sins, or in other words converted, they can continue practicing sin with impunity?
No, I didn't say that, don't be putting words in my mouth. Your the one that call on the scripture. Now you are just trying to argue, splitting hairs. I won't argue.
I asked what your BELIEF was. Nothing more, nothing less.
You know my belief, now have a nice night Joseph.
Prove yourself faithful even to death, and I will give you the crown of life.
This proves we will be tested by satan as faithful Job
Like a marriage if you only support a title and claim it can not stand, works and faithfulness prove value .
When we follow church doctrine we find both, once saved always saved and one can fall from salvation. Since I recognize reincarnation (Daniel 12:13 & Revelation 20:5-5) is in the Bible, although not the term, and how there is a cycle to everything on earth (Genesis 1:14 & Ecclesiastes 1:9) I visualizes the Bible's message is salvation comes when it is our time to "rapture" from the earth.
Prior to the rapture we continue the learning process of understanding both genders, the four primary ethnics with their multitude of variable mixtures and the 12 eastern Zodiac signs (tribes of Ishmael) multiplied by the 12 western Zodiac signs (tribes of Jacob) by living them all. Then, once we go through the metamorphosis of the new birth (John 3:1-8) to enter everlasting life, the comforter (John 14:26) bring all of those things to our remembrance like it happened to the Disciples with the various tongues on pentecost.
Thus, I have the concept that once saved always saved.
http://www.gotquestions.org/reincarnation.html Well if the 144 is divided by the 12 Sagittarius stars and the metamorphosis of the reincarnation were to occur before and after the rapture I can come to a concept through meaningless babble too.
Let us start with what comes out of the mouths of those trained by the institutional church. Keep in mind they would never think what they are saying is actually the answer to their misguided notions.
“There can be no contradiction in the inspired Word of God, only in our uninspired misunderstanding”.
For some reason the logic of the institutions of man believe that if they make the statement first about misunderstanding that makes everything else that comes out of their mouths correct. This certainly violates the “slow to speak” guidance given in the scriptures. They also believe because the warm fuzzy feelings they get from the study of man’s ideas is somehow their validation to proceed with spreading their false ideas about the kingdom.
I give them eternal life is a statement right from scripture that no matter the translation says the same thing. The problem is that all the other scripture you read in the New Testament says that being a disciple of Christ is a journey not a single even. There is a narrow door that has been redefined by the overwhelming numbers in the institutional church system. Then there is the narrow path that has been taken over by man’s building project and created a wide highway that leads right out of the kingdom.
The redefined question is: Can I say or do something that will enable me to have eternal life forever regardless of my future behavior? The obvious answer should be NO. Man that has from the beginning been able to figure out what is required for membership, so he can join and then do whatever he wants. Once I’m in the club we the club will determine acceptable behavior, hence all the different denominations and divisions.
Yes Christ will give you salivation “when He returns” he brings it with Him. There is no man made ritual that gets you out of walking the narrow path with Christ to the end. None of the disciple asked if they could lose what they had. They were more interested in when will you return and stuff like that. Run the race, be a doer of the word and don’t worry what man says about his idea of how he can behave.
To answer the question directly you can't loose something that you don't have yet.
First of all, what makes you think that you are saved, right now?
Doesn’t the inspired word of God say in Revelation 12:10 “And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.”
Salvation and the Kingdom of God come AT THE SAME TIME, after the sound of the 7th. Trumpet.
That has NOT happened yet.
Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. The kingdoms of this world are still under the control of the god of this world, Satan the Devil.
At the seventh trumpet, Revelation 19:11 states: “And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed (salvation).
Satan the Devil is still the god of this world. He promised to give Jesus the power and glory of all the kingdoms of the earth because it had been delivered to him (Luke 4:6).
Christ will rule with the saints upon the earth (Revelation 5:10) for 1,000 years and help rule in the Kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
The Bible, which stands for BASIC INSTRUCTIONS BEFORE LEAVING EARTH, has the whole truth of God.
Do not be deceived by Pagan Christianity and it’s traditions.
Flpalermo, agree, don't be fooled by those Pagan Christians and those who claim to know scripture. I know I'm saved simply by one scripture. Rom 10:13...Whoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. I don't have to wait to the end, I know.
CarrieG: The Scripture says you "SHALL" be saved, not that you are saved right now.
Re 2:10Do not be afraid of the things you are about to suffer. Look! The Devil will keep on throwing some of you into prison so that you may be fully put to the test, and you will have tribulation for ten days. Prove yourself faithful even to death,
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