Why do atheist and other none believers not accept as proof human existence Including them ?
I ask this question because atheist are persistent with this line prove that God exist But as they are given proof they persist to say the same words, example a husband and wife claims to love one another the wife or husband says prove it, when right from the very beginning the bound was written in comitting to a marital bond of sacrifice.The beginning of proof. The next maybe expressed in different expressions the interchange of caring for each other even monetary values I use this example because this planet is nothing more then proof of a higher source Who provides all human needs .
RLwalker, example you get hired at a Job You agree to work for wages, but you have faith you will get paid based on realities, There is a company, there is management, And there is representives, yet you may never see the owner of the company.
Kiss, That's actually not proof there is a higher being, that was already going to happen. It was pre-written for the event to take place. The Secret does a great job explaining these things. The things you list have nothing to do, unless you prayed.
JLAUREN I use examples to explain. The point of using this example is to prove people have faith in connection with reality The reality is that there exist a company, and getting hired, not ever seeing the boss or owner a check they work in faith
JLauren K&T is trying to explain in "literal sense" to relay to "man" as GOD did (Father & Son) but "man" fails to realize due to "literal" interpretation, not "Spiritual!" ONE SPIRIT (Eph 4:4-6)=PRECISELY that "ALL!" F,S, & HS + MORE! G
Jlpark, notice, Mt 4:10Then Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written: Mt 4:4But he answered: “It is written: Heb 10:7Then I said: ‘Look! I have come (in the scroll it is written about me) to do your will, O God.’” Jesus example.
Jlpark it is not impossible to know gold from fake, nore diamonds ,but to people who may not know the difference gold and diamonds may all apear alike. , but I do not worry about what I possess I am a sure 100%
Norine I am 100% sure and confident in the word of God as Jehovah , And that Jesus is his son, your limited ability is that you can not and will not accept Hebrew and Greek meanings Which would change what you believe. You are not telling truth .
Death says no activity at all toward no one not just God alone Why do you interpet that as only God, when it says no activity at all thoughts perish , it did not say perish of God. That is you adding that thought.
PLEASE STOP! Stop thinking in the physical realm! We are spirits! SPIRIT, SPIRIT, SPIRIT! Until u chg your thinking fm carnal, u will not "see!" Lord, I pray but it's HARD to chg 1 fm "teachings" ONLY GOD CAN! I was told to remind ALL! Rd Rm8
Mt 5:22 (accountable to the Supreme Court; whereas whoever says, ‘You despicable fool!’ will be liable to the fiery Ge·henʹna.) Means everlasting destruction .We should never call people names and say Jesus said it. You used his words as a weapon.
K&T: Matt 5:22 "angry...w/o a cause..?" 1st who's angry? Teaching perceived as "anger" bcuz "taught" diff (Heb 4:12) WORD "cuts" causing "anger!" Where do we diff? Diff=Jesus is God? Read "Promise Keeper" by LIFE! No heaven or hell? Explain!
Norine you used the word fool to my guest on my posted subject, just because you are writing again it does not mean I have changed my feelings about your comments and how you speak. Next what you teach is not scriptual truth, Jesus died on a tree
K&T: U apparently don't live WORD! Jesus called "twisted" thinkers "fools" so why can't I? Galatians 3:1 "O "FOOLISH GALATIANS.." Read the rest! "Tree?" MATERIAL vs. SPIRITUAL? What r u talking about? Reap the "benefits" no matter WHAT "HE DIED"
Jlpark the doctor does not force his observed diagnosis with out your approval, yet you are in total control to accept or reject, and many do the same with spiritual things of God. The doctor does not say it is iether your way or mine, you determine
And last Jlpark I know you are not understanding Because you see us worshiping the same God , We do not. That is the problem. I Worship Jehovah the Father of Jesus. She worships Jesus. That is the difference and many more she has listed.
She worships Jesus and his father. So yes, you do worship the same God. As Jesus was the son of God. You are both Of Christian denominations, yet even then you disagree over who is 'right'. and then wonder why atheists often scorn.
Jlpark next as I wrote you before as you have said there are many Gods, Norine denies the Father. I do not so she worships another, simple not the same. If you are confused and you should not be just exclude youself from the subject , thank you.
I'm not confused. I was merely pointing out something that should be obvious, but often isn't. Its one of the reasons people steer clear of religions. I thort pointing it out might help. I was trying to be nice. But hey, up to you.
Jlpark I have been a teacher for a long time I recognize your tone in your commit, you must understand I can not convert anyone like a mailman he delivers the mail It's up to you what you do with your mail. I assist in truth, Norine does another .
K&T: Your "truth" was "taught" v "revealed!" ONE SPIRIT (Eph 4:4-6) or LOST! TRUTH IS IN WORD! If 1 doesn't look "carnally," 1 could "see!" I.E. father & son v Father & Son! ONE SPIRIT who changes fm Glory to Glory as we should (II Co
It's the often violent disagreement between denominations of the SAME religion that turns people away. Yr disagreements with Nor, r just the simple version. Teacher? Of? I'm curious. As u assume tone where there was none.
Jacq: MANY Scriptures provided in HUB by LIFE "Promise Keeper." Too MANY saying Jesus is GOD! Maybe K&T can see "taught" v Holy Spirit! GOD operates n GLORIES! Eph 4:4-6 says "ONE SPIRIT" & I blv GOD & JESUS IS ONE SPIRIT (+ MORE GLORIES
And Jlpark your real intention is obvious, you do not believe in God , but now you care about the people who do, I do not believe that, You want to criticize the people who do because you can not change the truth of what is written.
Last Thought Jlpark just because you state your conviction of not believing in God , and being Gay, does that mean you are trying to convert people to your choice ? Sharing truth of a matter does not convert , that is left up to you personally .
Assuming my intent? hmmm all knowing...r u God? My intent was to learn, but when neither can agree on which is truth, which to take as truth? Convert to my choice? Nope - religioN is a personal decision. Being gay isn't a choice so can't 'convert'
Jacq: Being Black isn't a choice either so we ALL have our cross to bear! Just forget how we "feel" & do what HE says! Black not good enough if 1 listens to "society!"Not what JESUS said & NOTHING is bad enough that won't b forgiven excpt
Jlpark your reading comments but you are not listening to details, you quote we read same bible , false, you say two denomination agrees on same religion, you are hearing everything wrong, but if you want to hear it that way who can stop you.
K&T: Ur "translation committee" is another "tool" Satan has used to DECEIVE! Jn 1:1 for instance! "...the Word was "a god?" How many r there? Oh, Oh! Trinity? Satan is busy! (Jn 10:10) No wonder u're confused!
Maybe because they actually know what the word proof means. Human existence proves only that humans exist. Nothing more. To tie our existence to a "higher source" is a leap of faith for which you have no evidence. This distinction is obvious and clear.
It really doesn't matter how often you try to claim belief is logic. It isn't and never will be.
Thank you for your input , but I have to say the many things exist benifit our survival , Could you explain why is that possible. Like the sun , the moon, the oygen , the plants , gravity all keep us living here on planet earth.
So Junkseller, if I visit your home and there is an aquarium in your living room , I am to assume they put themselves there, they put themselves in the glass case, they even welcomed and put other fish in with them. No one thinks this way natrally,
RLWALKER, New World Translation Isa 40:22There is One who dwells above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers.He is stretching out the heavens like a fine gauze, And he spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.
Jlpark Greece Daniel 2:32, 39; 7:6 331 B.C.E. Alexander the Great conquers Persia The ten-horned fearsome beast representing the Roman and Anglo-American World Powers Rome Daniel 2:33, 40; 7:7 63 B.C.E. Rules over Israel 70 C.E. Destroys Jerusalem
@kiss andtales Gravity, the sun, the moon, water.. These types of things aren't around for the sake of our existence. These attributes of earth are what caused our existence. The earth wasn't crafted for our survival, we were made by the earth.
Non-believers could do a better job at proving what seems to be the single object of your devotion and respect. That is irony, yet you enjoy the respect afforded to you by common decency, not common Christianity.
R: "Common decency" (morals) are fm GOD! "Big Bang?" Popped into being? Not funny? Get real! U KNOW there is A GOD! Good internal "feelings"=PROOF! Non-blvrs can't "prove" ANYTHING to me unless fm SPIRIT OF GOD=WORD!
Norine you also force none truth because that is all you seem to know when sharing truth with you , you say it does not matter because you do not know or can admit truth, my day has not been about you on HP, I was here longer and I have not changed
You're saying God is real because we humans exist.
To take this as proof or even light evidence, you have to know the probability of us existing. Have we explored exhaustively even one other planet for life? For all we know life might be quite probable.
But lets say we explore the whole universe, get tired and decide we're alone and calculate the likelihood of us existing in a universe like this to be near zero. Well, if there are an infinite number of multiverses, then anything no matter how improbable is unremarkable.
But lets say there's only this one universe. We have to then conclude that anything that is, is subject to the law of cause and effect. That for anything to be, there must be a prior cause. Can we conclude that? Otherwise God would have to contend with the possibility that existence has no prior cause.
But lets say we determine it has to have a cause. Ok so there comes the simple question, "who made God?".
Lets say we decide that this cannot be asked, maybe on the grounds of blasphemy.
That would be convenient but after all of those great leaps of assumption without proof, how can we honestly talk in any proper sense about the proof for God?
Isn't Christianity all about faith? Faith as some people define it is the belief in something without proof. If you agree with this then why do you need proof in the first place?
Thank you , and I must add my faith is based on certain realities, even though I can not see my heavenly Father I see his works, I see his creations, I see myself , I know man did not create me , nore himself. So that is proof to me.
I agree the lack to prove does make proof But what I am saying is their enough realities that is considered proof for many Like the reality of a company that exist, the reality of management that exist, and you was hired a reality, does a boss ?
K&T - at the same time, an atheist would see the existence of humans as proof of evolution, and not of God. So, what you see as proof of God may not be. I'm not trying to be disrespectful, I wish to have a discussion - it was just something I saw
Nor - yr welcome. Re: your request - please see my comment on yr own answer - it's likely u will dismiss anything provide as u have said b4 if it's not of God, it's lies. (C comments in my gay question). I am happy to continue via email if u wish
Jlpark being a reader of the bible is different , because as you see many come from the task with different meanings. That is because it is not that simple to read and understand under human thinking, it is gift granted to decipher it's message
K&T: Don't forget "trash in=trash out" when reading "literally" w/o "guidance" only "man's written interpretations!" Even w/KJV God "reveals" LIES! If 1 doesn't blv this, don't blv "Holy Spirit!" Why so many "interpretations" v "revelation!"
Ps 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence. There is silence, no communication after death.As, stated. Ec 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again. No mention of hell or heaven
K&T: STOP "looking literally" (LOOK N SPIRIT) or u will b lost (Jn 4:24)! "The dead" r "sinners!" We were not "...once DEAD n transgressions & sins?" (Eph 2:5) SPIRIT "dead" not physically! FLESH does "return to dust" but NOT SPIRITS! Now no
The universe exists, I am sure everyone will agree with this. The problem is, how did the universe come to exist? There are really only two possibilities. A "caused cause" or an "un-caused cause." Something cannot bring itself into existence because nothing cause it to exist.
Some say the universe has always existed, making it eternal. An infinitely old universe is impossible. If the universe has always existed, all usable energy would have been depleted.
The atheist position is, "there is no evidence for the existence of God." Some, which are termed hard atheists, say, "there is absolutely no God."
Evidence is subjective. In other words, it is the opinion of the one looking at the evidence. Those who say there is no evidence for God to exist, are merely stating their opinion according to what they see.
Those who state, "there is absolutely no God," commit a logical fallacy. In order to make that statement, everything that exists would have to be examined. We know that everything cannot be seen or examined by anyone.
Now we can get into the evidence for God. What is the evidence? The Bible tells us that the heavens declare the glory of God. Psalms 19:1
God exists outside of time and space. He cannot be contained. The universe itself is evidence of the existence of God. Since the universe cannot create itself, it had to be created. It needed a beginning.
All existence is in order, not just random happenings. Before the universe began, there were no natural laws. Stephen Hawking wrote, "because of the law of gravity, the universe had to create itself." (paraphrased) It is a logical fallacy. Something had to exist in order for something to be created.
Some will ask, "Who created God?" We get into the same problem with infinity. If God was created, who created the one who created Him, etc. . . God has always existed.
The Bible is one of the proofs for the existence of God. Many will discount it because it disagrees with what they would rather believe. Genesis 1:1, In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.
Thank you for your time as I rambled on. This is actually the first time I ever really addressed this subject in this manner.
Its funny how u pretend to promote logic in arriving at your conclusions on the existence of God...then you go on and assert that this God just happens to be the one that you are so lucky to have been programmed to believe in. Wow! What luck!
If the Bible proves God then the Quran proves Allah, Aztec idols prove Xiuhtecuhtli, and the purple elephant tattoo on my heiny proves Flufybutt, the great sky elephant. Surely you must recognize your own logical fallacy herein.
Virgil, why do you require logic from us, while you dismiss all logic and reason when attempting to prove your claims? Your god requires very little ethics. U cant declare that your god created ANYTHING unless u have proof. U have nothing but hearsay
How can you observe a law which we call cause and effect from a tiny space as a tiny thing within an observed reality and conclude that this reality itself in whatever it may lie has to obey the same law let alone "therefore God exists."?
RLWALKER the example was used because this can help in seeing the bigger picture, Lets reverse say there are tiny ants who work and care for their community, to them We are Gigantic creatures, but does that make us impossible because of size.
ALL: WHY can't ANYONE give me the name of a book written BEFORE the Bible that has as many prophesies that HAVE BEEN FULFILLED as the Bible? HOW could "man" have known these K's of yrs BEFORE? Until an answer, just useless HOT AIR!
The ridiculous and fraudulent Argument From Prophesy Fallacy. This is nothing more than believers re-interpreting events to fit expected results...while also ignoring the prophesies that were flat out WRONG...even by Jesus(Mark 13:30) Yep. Hot Air!
Get: Read Scripture "IN THE SPIRIT!" Re:Mk13:30: Who knows what happens BEFORE 1 dies? Stephen saw "His Coming" which "DIFFS" (Acts 7:55)! Can u say v.24-27 hasn't happened already? Bible's ALIVE! Ea x 1 dies, "this gen" ends!
Prophesied by Prophets in Bible re: "Things to Come in World" such as 9/11 in Isaiah 9:10? Did attack not "cut down sycamore & (we) replaced w/cedar?" "Fulfillment" took place in our generation! More PROOF!
So because there is a passage that speaks of bricks and trees been cut down and being rebuilt and replaced with stronger better trees and bricks, and because the twin towers were destroyed and rebuilt even better, God exists.
Not twisted to fit, no. You don't need to twist a square to fit it into a square hole. But should I find a square to fit into this here square hole, oh my God! It's a miracle. I have heard enough. Thank you.
RL, What we are witnessing is a gross display of the effects of Indoctrination...on a mind that has totally submitted to authority.Such minds will CONCOCT anything to confirm the "validity" of even the most fraudulent claims. Absolutely FRIGHTENING!!
Norine, u have not proven ANYTHING about belief, except for my point. Your assertions only prove that belief is blind faith and willful ignorance. Spewing out verses from a corrupted document proves that there is no respect for the truth.Integrity?
Get: "Blind faith" & "ignorance" to those who wont "unleash" POWER which lies w/in due 2 "unbelief!" So, we're stuck @ an impasse! Bcuz of "unbelief," will NEVER "see" PROOF, & bcuz of "belief" exp'ing (personal) "benefits!" Why so many blvrs
Glen: Then u've never exp'd the PWR of GOD! GOD "writes" in heart & mind (GOD "wrote" thru "men"). Ex: Ur "mind" ever tell u 2 do s/t diff than u plan'd & u avoided trauma? GOD speaks! U can tell ppl about exp but no "proof" for them! Same
Unfortunately, this question is nothing more than a big fallacy of Special Pleading. It seems that the desire is to promote blind faith, whether than to show proof of a claim. These types of assertions are elementary, and those of us who are more scientifically inclined know that these are shallow knee jerk reactions...requiring very little thought. Again...just because you don't have the answers to certain questions doesn't mean you can default to God did it! This planet does not necessarily provide all human need, but rather, humans have adapted to the non-hospitable conditions, and have to struggle daily to survive.
This planet has function as our home from centuries, what the condition is now is based on bad tenants who are ruining the earth, with pollution and war Again you are not putting up any believable responses but attacking another's point of view.
With all due respect have u ever actually read any Science or History books? Do u know anything about how to follow an argument? Your responses are all straw man fallacies. It is apparent that there is a SEVERE comprehension issue.This is vacuous!
Getit where is your statement of your proof I am looking not for analysis of comments But what can you contribute to say that you are convince there is no creator. I do not argue your experience or belief , I want to here it from you in details.
Kiss andTales, as expected..you have created another straw man fallacy. I never said that I am convinced that there is NO creator. But u, on the other hand, said that u are convinced that there is, then u supply worthless evidence...which we reject
Getit that is the problem you reject proof that is good enough for millions, not a few. as I requested in a respectful way your story of truth you decline, it does not matter anyway ,no need to look for an answer from someone who does not know.
K&T, u spend all this time trying to find answers, even though the answer has already been presented to u. U are not looking for truth, but rather a confirmation of the nonsense u know deep down isn't true. The rigid effect of indoctrination.
Getit you still are not answering a question, The point of asking is not because I am not sure, but I really want to know why you are not, because as proof you have not answered the question but avoid it by making one way replies on the subject.
Getit Where does your Infomation Come From , you never tell your beliefs because you can not. again if you can not explain your faith, labeling people who have a right as you do is not proper, if you can not state answer then why post here.?
Getit get this respectfully do not post to this subject, I am asking and talking to hubers or guest who want to address the question with respect and consideration , you are not doing that .I was trying to be fair with everyone , you are being ugly
K&T: Blv'd so long until they thk true! They no in "soul" there's 1 Greater than "self!" Self sufficiency tends to 1 thk as such! It's as though talking to person n English when they only no Spanish re: Spirit v. carnal! Science=Spirit STRONGE!"
JlparkBabylon Daniel 2:32, 36-38; 7:4 607 B.C.E. King Nebuchadnezzar destroys Jerusalem The bear representing the Medo-Persian Empire Medo-Persia Daniel 2:32, 39; 7:5 539 B.C.E. Conquers Babylon 537 B.C.E. Cyrus decrees return of Jews to Jerusalem
K&T: Ask yourself "Why does what she says "bother me?" Listen 2 ur spirit! GOD'S talking & you're "not listening!" SPIRIT WORSHIP is what HE wants not father/son but Father/Son (OMNIPRESENT SPIRIT)! "Renew your mind" fm "worldly teachings!"
Jlpark when you are not interested in the subject of medicine Nore care for doctors can you tell these doctors that you are both wrong when you can not relate to what they are talking about in medicine or care of a patient., you are not a doctor.
K&T: You already know the answer! The majority have found that GOD is against their "lifestyle;" therefore, HATE Him! They know they are "connected" to THE SPIRIT (GOD), if not one would not have said "I "feel good" when "doing good!" Where do they think that "feeling good" feeling comes from? They know!
Yet because MOST have either suffered "traumatic experiences," subsequently "blaming God," for their experience, "turning from God" or rely on "SELF" (Romans 1:25) and turn to sin because of their brilliant knowledge!
Ask how many Atheist suffered "traumatic experiences" (sexually) in life? If TRUTH be told, the majority! If not, they have studied themselves into oblivion!
When younger (both parents being evangelist), I could have "EASILY" become an Atheist, because I was "sick of going to church!"
Confirmation that Proverbs 22:6 didn't LIE which says, "Train up a child in THE WAY he should go and, when he is old, he will not depart from it."
Although I've "grown" spiritually (II Corinthians 3:18) and "revelation" has exceeded my parents, I am still in THE WAY "changing from glory to glory!"
It's OK though! We ALL have "free will!" But we must remember, WE ALL MUST "STAND BEFORE THE JUDGMENT SEAT OF CHRIST!" (II Corinthians 5:10)!
I have asked them (Atheist) x after x to "Provide a book written with as many prophesies that have been "fulfilled" written BEFORE the Bible," with NO RESP! They "know" but try to justify non-existnce due to "lifestyle" & hate any1 or thg against
Getit example if you were in college and a professor asked you a question , would you respond back with a question and say why are you asking me, you been told the answer ,or your question is nonsense, But the professor never gets your answer.
First things first Nor - what prophesies in the bible (write a hub, I'll read it) came true? I'm gen curious as I've lived thru 8 world endings this far. Also u will likely not accept any book as u have said b4 - if it's not of God u won't believe it
Jacq: I read "statistics" (req'd by unblvrs) but "man" compiled as did w/"dates" pertaining to bible even "chg'd" some Wording n bible! TRUE Holy Spirit "reveals!" Why IMPORTANT we're "connected" (spiritually) to GOD (TRUTH) who "reveals!"
Jlpark so who did Jesus follow? That is the whole key? Christian is a title anyone can claim , but the ginuine ones live it , not claim it. The ones who yell I am one usally are not one The ones condemning are not either. But true ones genuine
K&T: "Genuine"=TRUTH=WORD! Have I not given WORD? Who's not "genuine?" U fail to realize "rev" given me ABOVE "flesh!" U see Father/Son "literally" when in fact were told (Jn 4:24) "look (worship) "Spiritually" then seen Father/Son v father/so
Joh 1:14 So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father; and he was full of divine favor and truth. Jesus became flesh among us that is how he died Of flesh
K&T: Did u read above? "In the beginning was the WORD & the WORD was w/GOD & the WORD was GOD." WORD=GOD! V2: The SAME was in the beginning with GOD" (Jn 1:1-2) WORD (GOD) manifested HIMSELF n flesh=Jesus Christ! And JESUS isn't GOD?
U all claim to be true Christians yet u claim others who disagree with yr interpretation as false. Or those who are Mormon, or Witnesses, are claimed to be cults and not Christian by OTHER Christians. The only true Christian would b Christ himself.
Jlpark of all the things you have said , that is the most important thing , and your are correct. Jesus is the truth, we are to trace his steps , that is what matters, we do that a b d answer to him and the Father stoning others is not the key
As you claim to teach , all must be truth, Ac 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.that is one piece of wood not two pieces , the two pieces crossing each other is pagan and comes from the worship of taymuz
K&T: Acts 5:30="1 SPIRIT" (Eph 4:4-6) rem? Did u miss the morale of His death? If so, "HE DIED!" What does it matter what object on? I BELIEVE "HE DIED" & reasons He did while u look @ "carnal thgs!" Tree=cross! SAME! Don't worship cross but
Norine everything matters , because this established truth of false and pagan,which if you present your worship contaminated with pagan practices and beliefs your worship is in vain. If you are teaching untruth will cause the same outcome.
Nor - I could google yea, but it is you who is making the claim, therefore it is you who needs to provide the proof, not insist another search for it. K&t these comments r a perfect example of 'you're doing it wrong, do it my way or else'
Jlpark to reply to comments as do it my way or else, is probably no different then a doctor visit, he knows the symptoms , he knows why things are not functioning right with the body, no different just a higher Authority. Doctor does not force you
Nor - if u had proof you'd provide it 2 support Ye statements. Instead of insisting I do the searching. Yr statement = yr job 2 provide proof. K&t - I mean the Christians calling others fake or not Christian because they differ in belief in comm
Jlpark can I tell you how to be a atheist to another atheist , no !, simple because you do not understand or accept there is a God, that has nothing to do with what I say to Norine, you already are convinced before we came along. No excuse here
K&T I seem to have touched a nerve. My apologies. I was merely pointing out something that may be detrimental to you encouraging people to your faith. I like to learn about religions, even if I'm an atheist. You seem to be defensive about somethi
Jlpark You tell me Norine worship the Father , she is not respecting the Father name is Jehovah, But She worships Jesus as omnipresent. The problem with that is the word omni is not in the bible. and Who does Jesus worship? .
Ok, Hahaha. The word Omni isn't in the bible? Yet, neither is the word homosexual in the Ancient Greek, Hebrew + Aramaic texts - it wasn't a word until the 1900s. Nor - I do research. Just becus I still don't believe doesn't mean I haven't.
Jacq: Touche Unbeliever! But we do know what "unnatural use of body" implies as we know Jer 23:23-24 implies "Omnipresent!" If ppl blv n err & remain COMPLACENT AFTER TRUTH presented ="SELF SATISFACTION" (pride)! If u've done "honest" res u KNO
Jlpark what do you want to learn ?there has been plenty to learn hear, but no matter what you want to change to your advantage will not change, sleeping with the same sex is wrong according to God's law. Are you looking for a ok , sorry there is none
Jacq: To "give up" something that "satisfies flesh" is hard w/o Holy Spirit's help, we can't do it! (Matt 6:33;Jn 6:44). Read I Jn 2:16; II Chron 7:14 or else "PRIDE" "LUST OF FLESH" LUST OF EYES" = SIN=LOST!
Norine we still do not agree, what ever Jlpark needs to do is between her and the Father we did not write the law, nor are we enforcers by throwing stones because we all sin and fall short of God's required laws. Jlpark is not all wrong , but motives
My my. Defensive much? I'm not looking to change anything 2 my advantage. I'm happy in my lack of belief. I have learnt but likely not what u intended I learn! So u assume I've not researched cus I haven't converted? Research is WHY I haven't!
Jacq: Sorry u can't "see!" Just giving WORD & if not interested in converting ="free will!" But we ALL MUST STAND before the judgment seat of Christ & if (according to u) there is not a GOD u're in good shape so don't worry! K&T:We do ag
If humans are proof of God - which one? There are thousands of worshipped Gods in the world, so if God is proven through the existence of humans, is it Allah? Is it The God of Abraham? Is it Shiva? Is it the Goddess? Is it The Flying Spaghetti Monster? Is it Rangi the Sky Father, Papatuanuku the Earth Mother, Tane the God of Forests, and his brothers?
So, if I was to take your 'proof of God is our existence' I need to know which God.
If it is convienently the one you happen to believe in, and not the other 1000s, then you need to prove it was yr God and no Joe Smiths 'Allah' or Mary's Goddess.
Yes the body and our existence is a wonderous thing, and I can see the beauty in contributing that wonder to a godly being - it's much easier to explain, to understand, than the process of evolution, the science behind the Big Bang, and doesn't need to change with time and further discoveries.
But we have made discoveries that change the ideas and theories that we had regarding the beginning of time. Science moves with each discovery. The beauty with science is that we can comfortably say 'we aren't entirely sure, but we'll keep looking, and if we find something that changes things even with our theory, we'll add to it, change our theory and work with it' rather than the rather inflexible 'God did it'
The other problem is that most religions represent their God as benevolent, all loving, all knowing, beings. Yet, many religious holy books portray their God as violent, hateful and wiling to overlook horrific crimes but stone others to death for the slightest slip up. If there was a God, why is their childhood cancer? Why are there abused children? Why are there still religious wars? Surely an all knowing God would have stopped it (and don't give me the 'free will' excuse - if he knew what would be done with it, he could have stopped it - so either he isn't all knowing or he is evil).
So, which God did it? And can you proof it was yours over anyone else's? Therein lies part of the problem.
I'm not a believer - I am aware that we don't know all of what occurred to produce earth, humans, animals etc - but the difference is that my lack of belief can allow me to consider everything as a possibility. It still doesn't make me point to a creator, nor if it did would it necessarily be yrs.
Thank you jlpark for your contribution to the question they are very good ones, and I will answer all of your good points but as you know I am limited in space here ,I will answer as many as I can here, better yet a hub is better, thank you
Jlpark the thing about bible prophecy is that covers a large number that has been fulfilled, and yet there are still a few left,as said Jesus being the Messiah was about most prophecy being fulfilled, key word in the bible a reader is Government
Glenis, what proof do you have he did not, he is the only one claiming his work. Next out of all these centuries no one can prove a truth different. Humans do not live long enough to say it did not happen this way. Men were uses as secretaries .
And I've told u - Nostradamus has written several. u have also stated u would not accept anything from man but God only. Any other Relgious text u would dismiss as it isn't yr God. +u still haven't proved the prophesies u speak of. Write hub maybe?
Norine it is not nice to use words on a suggestive term to my guest, of subject, use the word fool in a sneaky way is not acceptable nor christian as you claim to be. Your works and words prove different please do not post on my subject here Again .
JESUS called them FOOLS! "O foolish Galatians..." If unblvr says NO GOD="Fool" as u for agreeing! U will STAND! Keep ur "twisted" thinking="reprobate mind!" I've done my job = TOLD! Satan's job=To OPPRESS GOD! Satan already defeated! Unfollowing
Nor - whether u believed God spoke thru me or not, I am happy u looked it up. Still doesn't prove 2 me God is real, but u r free 2 feel whatever way u wish abt how u found Nostradamus. K&T - u can delete her comments if u need 2 if that helps!
Jacq: "U" found "Nostradamus" (as serpents but Moses' (God's) ate sooth sayers) & I found "THE BIBLE" which predicted MORE than urs! Jacq no need to deny-GOD IS REAL! Your "homing device" (spirit) will eventually "reconnect" to GOD(SPIRIT)!TRUT
Kenneth because of space I will answer your question here about cain.Ge 3:66 this scripture says taking of fruit. Cain is not in genealogy because Ge 4:5he did not look with any favor on Cain and on his offering. So Cain grew hot with anger and was
Norine - that had nothing to do with my comment. You assume if there is a God that it will be yours. There are 1000s of worshipped gods in the world. If there is a God or gods, yrs has the same chance as all others. Stick on topic or go away
Jlpark when I use the word fake it is just the same meaning as imposter, imitation, No different then if a person was wearing a police uniform , does that make him a official police officer? No ,there are imitations of christains.
And the comments between you and Norine consist of you saying one thing, and Norine saying that it's wrong, then u saying she's wrong. Different denominations of Chrisitianity don't agree (sometime violent)- yet worship the same God. That is my point
Jlpark what I was trying to say to you is if you have three people in an emergency room, two doctors of that profession And one just a bystander not doctor, and they hear the conversation,can that bystander tell the doctors both of you are wrong ?
Due to confidentiality - the bystander SHOULDN'T understand unless directly told to do something. What does this have to do with the previous comment? Re: you and Nor. You need to ensure your comments are in order or you make no sense.
My comment made sense because you just validated it by reply of bystander, since it is my posted question and I need more space to finish my statement then I use space available I posted to you back to back that allowed you to read comments togather
Jacq: I've told K&T to stop resp out of sequence but it's means to belittle me but can't bcuz WORD given! Now disagreement btwn K&T="taught" v revelation fm Holy Spirit! BIBLE pertains to MY GOD of which I asked Q & u fur Nostradamus=doe
Norine understand this fact I do not personally know you , this Web site is based on forums and hubs of subjects, behind a device, As I said before I do not agree with your Teachings, because scriptures prove different.
Can you both not see it? You both claim to be Christian, yet because you are of different denominations you are both busy telling the other that their interpretation (usually bcos of denomination) is wrong. And u expect people to want to convert???
Jacq: What u fail to realize "IT'S a Spiritual journey," NOT COMPLACENT, but "GROWING" or "changing fm glory to glory" (II Cor 3:18). Why u thk u see (carnal) dissension but rather "changing" (if revealed to 1 by GOD) into HIS likeness! Heb 4:12
Jlpark only God knows everthing . I will say that, as an example if you were in a college and you wanted to learn you would ask questions but valid pertaining to the subject of belief, your questions are directed toward us as , and judging us the sam
Nor - just putting this out there again - you need to start writing hubs - you have a lot of knowledge to share that gets lost in yr abbreviated comments - which unfort can come across occasionally as babble. I'd like to read them if you'll write.
Jacq: "Time" prohibits as I keep grandchildren daily but I will eventually (maybe during summer)! My desire is to tell ALL how Satan has deceived MOST thru "RELIGION" & has neglected "After the Cross" and/or The Gospel of Christ! Sorry for babb
Norine let God judge the right and wrong of his word and who is handling it in all trufulness. Just because you talk do nor mean you speak truth. If you want to disagree with what I share you can .but I will not argue with you .the truth stands
I tend to agree with Jacqui. It seems to be a tit for tat convo. One of the hardest things to do is to let it go, but it must be done at times. I also would like to see some hubs from Nor. It is hard to read short comments.
I must say what appears to be Tit for tat , is simply a reply to Norine who comes behind my comments, I did ask her not to write on my posted question for the peace of subject , she continues and has caused this subject hub to look like Tit for tat
K&T: Good mrng! "Tit for tat" is what WORD says we should do (II Tim 3:16; I Pet 3:15; I Tim 5:20; II Tim 4:2Ezk 33:7-12Jm 5:19Prov 10:17;19:20Col 3:16+)! II Tim 4:2 says "Preach the WORD "in season" & "out of season.." Aren't we to do? Lo
Thank you JLAUREN another good answer Not a good thing , but it helps to understand how some one thinks. And you are so correct showing people is the best teacher,that is also in a reverse way. how do Atheist show their choice, It should be positive
J, respectfully, can you see that believer's needing to prove atheist's wrong is also a need to be right, and to show others they are right? I'm just trying to point out yr first statement could apply to both sides. You are right with need for proof.
Jacqui, I can't see the need for both sides. Atheists have been around since 100 b.c. What's there to prove? I'm not always right, I am human. You should also look at this from a human point of view. I do know it takes something drastic to change.
Jacq: It is not a blvr's "need to be right" that drives him but a desire of "no one is lost!" Even if unblvrs r rt & there is no God, what hurts "doing rt" (society def 2) & being guaranteed "eternal life" vs just "doing rt" w/no reward?
Yet, I as a human + an atheist do not have a need 2 b rt. Pls don't generalise. Nor - sure, but the way in which 1 is often approached 2 convert is 2 insult, belittle + use scare tactics (Hell etc). Surely the Good side should b 1st, not punishment
Jlpark , you say you read 8 ends, and have not seen fulfilled Then you read wrong, there have been many ends Sodom and Gomorrah, babylon, the flood caused a end leaving 8 survivors.Jerusalem temple the seat of Jehovah earthly throne 70ce, by Rome.
Sodom was the end of the town, not the world. What I said was 'I have LIVED through abt 8 ends of the world.' - meaning dates that have been touted as from the Bible signalling the world itself will end on said date - the last being Oct 7, 2015.
Jlpark that is the very point when it was written and said and end would come it came without fail as a warning to compare, now what is wrong is people pushing ahead saying when these things will happen,the scripture shared says only the father know
Ah, but the problem is - all these people, and yourself, claim to be Christian and know the will of God through the Bible. So, you say they are wrong, they say you are - yet yr all Christians. So, who's actually right?
Understand Jlpark that everthing has a copy , example money, can you tell a fake bill by just looking at it, no ! The appearance is their to fool you, but what is closely revealed in the light through the paper tells you, There are fake christian
K&T - fake Christians. You see, those you call fake could and probably would say the same abt u becus u r a different branch of Christianity to them. That's the thing - none of u r actually the original author therefore u CANNOT know what was mea
Norine Jesus did do a Judgment visit to the rebel angels who are spirit creatures but the bible is clear about humans as resting in graves until resurrection hope. You are not telling truth to say humans of flesh keep living in spirit after death
"You are not telling truth to say humans of flesh keep living in spirit after death." Well if "flesh returns to dust" what's going to that "New Govt" u continuously talk about? U contradict your own belief!
Jlpark and last thought how could satan ask God to bow down to him, because the fact is he was not God the Father . He was a son . The only nerve that hits me is a lie , and people who lie to others to feed a ego that will take them nowhere.
Interesting - I never lied. U seem to be defensive about something - if ones faith cannot stand up to questioning - is it strong enough? I ask questions, point out things to learn, and to strengthen yr faith because it can stand up to questioning.
I get asked that all the time so i uses science to show god is real ill say look at the red sea (when its really the reed sea lol) people ask OK what about it. well scientist say that a effect call wind down set and the wind would have to be blowing east at 63 mph for 12 hours that's the only explanation they can give and the reason why they give that explanation it that they have found horse and human remains and chariot wheels. but no proof of it happening again so perfect time or god. they could not answer. the other I've also used Quantum Physics look at the laws of attraction and read it and they tell where God fit in this law and i tell them. Some may ask “where does God fit in to the law of attraction?” when the appropriate question is “where does the law of attraction fit in with God?” The answers are simple yet profound. I began to understand that God is the supreme creator that abides by this same law. He has power over the law, yet lives in complete perfection of it, because it is a perfect law, designed perfectly to support us in our experience of learning through our agency here on this earth. God created the Universe. The Universe works by laws. The law of attraction or what can also be called the law of creation is in operation in every sphere of the Universe. We are residents of the planet earth that is housed in the Universe, which makes us subject to this perfect law. That's how I explain my proof in how God is real because people want that scientific proof
Norine it is written Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth.”, Since the cross is not the truth , it would violate this scripture. Which says (must!) to think less is not scriptual.
Jlpark , Jesus himself says, Mt 4:10Then Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written: ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’” He did not ever say worship me ! JESUS!
K&T: TRUTH?" Do u no what that is? U "hung up" on OBJECT (carnal Rm 8:8) & forget WHY(TRUTH)He died on tree,wood,cross which is not the point! The moral of the TRUTH is HE DIED for us & sent "GIFT" which u won't accept! Let Satan side tra
I'm not arguing that point. I'm saying that there are these HUGE Differences between yr Denomination and Nors's yet u both claim to be Christian. And then claim the other is not or is wrong in their beliefs. Yet both wish to bring others to God.
Jlpark using the comments between me and Norine is a scapegoat for you, the problem is we did not write one thought in the bible it was already hear before our birth. So Complaint Is not valid with us , it is the Heavenly Father.
K&t - I'm merely pointing it out - u r both arguing over who's interpretation of the SAME book is right - if two denominations cannot agree on the SAME religion then how is that supposed to encourage people to 'the truth' - which is true? JW's or
Jacq: TRUTH! Read Heb 6:1-3 "We (Believers) MUST be "ON ONE ACCORD" meaning "PROVE" fm WORD doctrine is right! When told, it is the resp of 1 to "SEARCH" (Acts 17:11) "to see if these thgs are so" & if can't "PROVE," only blowing HOT AIR!
Sorry to rain on everyone's parade, but we are overrating our intellectual abilities, because we are not equipped to make mental constructs out of linear conceptualizing. To use some lateral thinking here, both theists and atheists are wrong, as we are merely in a position of an intelligent dolphin "reasoning about the "dry world". Every epoch has been known for a sort of intellectual arrogance of - "having THE answers" - simply because we are also insecure species who NEED a comfort of certainty, so we create concepts that satisfy that need. Our brains are not programmed to grasp a reality out of time and space. Try understanding quantum physics, where an electron can be at two or more places at the same time. This is just a little example of the fact that we simply can't squeeze something so incredibly complicated into our limited paradigm box. To use a simple comparison, we are trying to measure distances with a weight scale. However, your dilemma over the existence of God is a cute intellectual adventure, and there is nothing wrong with that, as long as you are just PROPOSING something, not "stating it for a fact". Those who wrote holy books were those same "learned" folks who thought that our planet was flat, and while their divine visions might have satisfied their level of "understanding" - we may want to explore some more. Maybe even give up this need for instant answers, and give a chance to future generations to come closer to the Ultimate Truth. A disclaimer: I don't call myself either a believer or an atheist. Please, don't call me any other names, I am just being intellectually humble.
Thank you for your reply Val, . This was written before man had technology to find out , who would know this before men did , the shape of the earth ? Isaiah 40:22 There is One who dwells above the circle of the earth,
The best "proof" for the existence of God is the human brain. Nothing else in the universe can compare to the power of 3.5 pound of organ tissue. The power of our thoughts are infinite. The miracle of self awareness. That is why I believe the current advances in AI is doomed to fail. In order for them to create a comparable "thinking brain", it would require "God" and we are not God but God's creation. Does that make sense?
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