Why do atheists need proof to accept that Christians have faith without proof?
I understand that an atheist needs proof to believe in God. That makes sense for them. But why in questioning a believer's faith do they need proof to understand why a believer believes. Isn't it obvious the faith requires no proof? We understand they do not have faith. Why would they require a believer to prove why he has faith?
Haha I love the way this question is formuated... It kind of turns the subject around and upside down...
But having said that, to answer this question fairly, I think it's fair to say that by an atheist's need for proof of someone else's faith, you mean their indignant reaction at the illogicality of someone's faith. They're saying 'how on earth is is possible for you to believe this' - yes, they're so aghast that in their indignation, they feel like they need some kind of substantive proof that someone really believes what they believe.... it's subtle.
To attempt an answer: because they fail to accept that some people just believe, just because, and doesn't need intellectualizing.
I grew up a Christian but have spent a lot of time reading up on other forms of belief etc. I see a slight similarity across the board, where the aspirant has to just give up trying to rationalise everything and just accept. That point of silent acceptance, beyond intellectualization. It's rather like God created everyone the same, with the same spiritual abilities.... to just give up and focus the mind through faith, in whatever path someone finds themselves.
That is my ecumenical answer, or attempted answer. My head is spinning now.
Either plain curiosity, or to prep for a debate if the believer is asserting their faith as fact.
Odd thing is though, on HP I've yet to see a believer say they have faith in God just because they do. I've always seen them cite something they consider as proof.
So far the only people I've seen maintain that their faith needs no proof are the ones that couldn't defend something from their faith they asserted was true...
Can one defend faith? Seems impossible. Besides, what is the point. Belief and faith are not contingent on proof.
However like I mentioned, if someone wants to bring their beliefs/faith into the realm of facts, proof then becomes mandatory. You cant back out and say you don't need to prove yourself once assertions are made.
Hi Link and Eric,
Well, Link, I guess I am one of those who does not "need" proof because I have faith, as a result of my intimate and personal relationship with the Lord. I just know without a doubt, and need no so-called "proof" ...
So you have faith due to your relationship with your lord.
Umm...isnt that your own "proof", Reaper? You make it sound like you didn't have faith prior to experiencing whatever current relationship you have, and afterwards you did.
That is an interesting notion Link. Perhaps a personal relationship is a kind of proof to a believer. Never looked at it that way. Kind of a highly personal acceptance of a fact. A little different than how we normally look at proofs as universal.
I have absolutely no problem with someone believing in God just 'cause they do. I actually much prefer that explanation to "I believe in God because look at all this proof DUH how stupid are you for not believing it too???"
I think as Link said that it's when someone starts to claim their faith as an absolute truth that should be applied to everyone and everything that people start asking for some real basis as to *why* other than their own personal feelings.
Interesting concept to link faith with feelings. Some truth there but only a partial one. Experience is a little more than feelings.Simply by stating "I believe" I prove that part of the equation. Why? Because I do. Is it a feeling. Maybe.
I don't see people asking for people to provide proof of their faith in whomever it is that they believe in.
What I see is some (please note NOT ALL, only some) people of faith asserting that their God, and only theirs, is true and should be believed in and worshipped by all - then being unable to provide proof of said God to those whom they insist should believe.
If you believe just cause you do, that's fine - you don't have to prove your faith to me. But if you want me to take up your beliefs as my own, then I need proof of the thing to believe in....which, is usually lacking.
See? It's not that I need proof of YOUR devotion to your God, I just proof of your God in order to believe in them myself.
Because many of them are "spiritually blind".
This is a very real phenomena and can be likened to a total lack of commonsense combined with feeble hope. Or perhaps the old horse blinkers that restrict the equine vision.
To analyse how we enjoy a book, a movie or a painting one needs to seperate the imagination involved from the little bit of faith present which suspends disbelief for a moment and add a little hope and inspiration. One needs to "incline the heart" as a church billboard said today. The deeper version of this is to incline the heart with faith to the study of God. It's beyond just imagination or wishful thinking and is linked to commonsense.
Without such basic ethical tools the atheist is lost
Yes, "The cross is just foolishness to those who do not believe," but when one truly believe, the Word of God reveals so much that the once unbeliever had not clue of ...
Because there is a reason why the believer believes. In the mind of the atheist, they already know why you believe. Whether it's because you were raised in that religion, or came to it as a source of comfort during difficult times, or whatever. You weren't born with it, so at some point in your life, you switched to theism. An atheist doesn't want proof for themselves, they want you to see it. They want you to see that your religion and your faith came from something tangible and human, not something supernatural.
This empty curse of needing seeing to believe is a failure. There is a disconnect between what is and what must be proven. Science is wonderful but for someone to think it is the only is sad.
I agree, Eric, for I do not believe because anything my parents taught me, but because I know Him, as I am in an intimate and personal relationship with Him. So, no proof is needed for me, because He is there for me and always has been there for me
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