Why do People Interpret the Bible through Human Philosophy?

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betteryouposted 15 years ago
I have found several interesting topics here in this forum and I'm actually surprised by comments from some Hubbers.... I saw these comments, "I do not believe that Mary or Jesus existed at all.", "the Bible FAILS"

Why pick up a book to read in order to look for faults therein; why not read so as to learn in order to get hold of the truth or has the purpose of learning been defeated whereby people read to spot & look for errors without coming to the knowledge of the truth.

May be not totally surprised because the Bible actually records that, "The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God."" -- Psalm 14:1. Since "All Scripture is given by the inspiration of God..." -- 1 Timothy 3:16, I therefore put it right before the critics that it can only be divinely interpreted by the inspiration of God and not through human philosophy.
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Then why it was written, if nobody can understand it ?
  If it can only be devinely interpreted, is it a book only for Gods ?
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  betteryouposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  When I say divinely interpreted, it means someone who is inspired and led by the Spirit of God (The Holy Spirit). The Bible is for everyone
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  getitriteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  What gives you, and your psychotic genocidal God, the right to insult people by prefacing them as fools because they think. A God that requires his followers not to think is ridiculous!
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  agree !
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  betteryouposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It's not an insult, that's the taught of man that there's no God. He knows the thoughts of man from afar even yours.
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  from afar !
  so god's in some place ?
  so where ??
  
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  getitriteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  You seriously think calling someone a fool is not an insult? I see a serious disconnect from reality!
  
  No man needs to teach me there is no god. It is the other way around. We have been taught by man that there is a God. Your God doesn't know my thoughts, because He doesn't exist. BTW, give me proof that nonbelievers are fools, or stop your insults. SHOW US FOOLS YOUR GOD. It seems that your God is a FOOL!
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What concerns me is that you are so angry about it....If you are sure that there is no God why should you care if anyone else believes there is a God?
  
  And, if the Bible is nothing to you why would you care if it calls you a fool or not? How is it that you can freely speak and freely insult, but you can't take it when it is dished out to you?
  
  Are you sure there is no God or are you fighting the part of you believes He exists?
  
  Please, don't become enraged and call me a bunch of nasty names....remember, you are free to post a reply or not.
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  getitriteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  Sorry, but it is not quite as you stated. I'm not angry that the bible states that I'm a fool, but because you, and other believers, actually believe that crap. Many non-believers are profound thinkers, and to view them as mere fools is an abject insult!
  
  How can you even reason with a fool, yet nonbeliever's weapon of choice IS reason!
  
  As far as any doubt about my position on belief, I have no doubt that religion is a farce, and that the existence of a god is improbable.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  In that case he knows he doesn't exist!
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  china manposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Don't you think that a book that tells you what to do and that tells you to only believe what is in itself is not a little suspicious, not even a teeny bit suspicious ?
  
  Why are these pages attracting so many door knockers ? are you all from the same church or are you part of a christian online group ?
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  betteryouposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That's the whole point, to tell you what to do and how live in a morally corrupt world.
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  Hokeyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What is this world condition?
  Body is the world condition.
  And with body and form goes feeling, perception, consciousness, and all the activities throughout the world.
  The arising of form and the ceasing of form--everything that has been heard, sensed, and known, sought after and reached by the mind--all this is the embodied world, to be penetrated and realized.
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Really ?
  
  A morally corrupt world !
  And a book is going to fix that !
  
  I live in a very nice world. MY WORLD . and I don't need the help of any delusional God. thank you !
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It is not the book that is the fixer....it is the person the book is about
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  and who would that be ??
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  (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Considering that your bible has been the center of morality for centuries, shouldn't we be blaming it for a "morally corrupt world"?
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That's right !
  so where's the OP ?
  gone for praying, I'm sure !
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Q,
  
  In a fashion you are right. It is the Bible's fault because it identifies corruption, there is a scripture that says,
  
  "God's law was given so that all people could see how sinful they were. But as people sinned more and more, God's wonderful kindness became more abundant." Rom 5:20 (New Living Translation)....
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ah yes, here is more of gods loving kindness for us to ponder.
  
  If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)
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  getitriteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  Sorry, Earnest, but I think I want to meet Leslie's God, and not yours. Her God seems so much kinder.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  ...and a prophets reward is their own.
  So what.
  all prophecy is fulfilled, evident by the Word & Testimony, that is Y`shua Moshiach. Therefore no man can reward himself, for his wisdom/logic or claim rights to grace of his own doing. Only through that Testimony can one receive the gift of grace.
  
  who is man to deny the gift of the Spirit?
  who is man that the Spirit should consider him?
  If a man who seeks the Spirit, he is then liberated by the Spirit who testified on mans behalf, so he would no longer suffer from his own mind, his thoughts, which he trusted in.
  
  Else, man is a prophet to himself and to other men who call upon whatever pleases them expecting to satisfy their need; to understand things greater than themselves.
  
  So, what should man do? Ask for the gift, accept it freely and return to the Spirit from which that Testimony comes.
  For the Spirit testifies that men are free in grace, where as laws and ritual, hate and fear, mockery and cowardice make men slaves to their own thinking.
  
  The binding Testimony of the Spirit is the fruit of the Spirit: love.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That explains alot.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  it does indeed.
  as mentioned numerous times: the limitation of consciousness aka human logic/thinking affirms this. The "Need To Know" factory keeps its rusty gears oiled. Sad really. If -according to evolution- after 10 million years of our existence, most humans cannot complete a single thought pattern; after widespread theistic and scientific experiments, man is no better off than the day he chose to accept his consciousness as master and became a slave to it.
  
  will humans ever escape the prison of their own logic?
  one wonders...
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  They should have enforced that one.
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  (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The Bible is dead wrong, we are not sinful. Corruption is a result of religion and originated from religious thought processes.
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  getitriteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Have you actually read the bible? Your God is one of the most morally corrupt inventions in history.
  
  He drowned the entire population of the earth(excluding Noah, et al) just because they did not worship him the way he wanted them to. Very sadistic! Very sadistic, and abuse of power!
  
  He thinks you should be killed for cursing your parents. Extreme punishment for a forgivable infraction.
  
  He thinks it's perfectly ok for you to be a slave.
  
  He thinks homosexuals should be killed(after he created them)
  
  ...and that's just for starters.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Even if that perspective is true, nothing really anyone can do about it -accept be angry, disbelieve, shake a fist at or roar at the top of our lungs. In the end, He wins anyway, regardless of how we feel about it.
  
  Interesting though that He is the only deity who claimed responsibility for making mankind or giving two sh!tes about him. All other deity wannabe's see men as objects of sport and slavery.
  Only this One offers a choice.
  
  just a thought...
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  getitriteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  He wins what? What's the inference here? Who is the "One" you refer to? Can you, the "ONE" and I sit down for coffee, and talk about these premises of which you speak? Or is it you, merely, spouting this from your own imagination, and trying to trick me?? Oh, I get it. I forgot your disclaimer: "Just a thought."
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  COFFEE INVITATION: sure can. no Starbucks, please.
  yet, i suppose you wouldn't show up, just like the others.
  to do so, suggests even the most minute possibility of a blip of belief in Him. If that is the case, then everyone knows He exists even though they dispute it within themselves or arenas the size of Topeka.
  On the other hand, if you need a reason to believe, then even a 'cafe Allah mode' is unnecessary. Tasty, but unnecessary.
  I am genuinely a coffee buff, so what the heck, I'm game.
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  getitriteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  Can't wait to meet him!!!!!
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  i keep seeing those funny emoticons.
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  getitrite
  
  Where do you get your animated emotions.....
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  If you really want to meet Him, He will make Himself known....actually He already has, but you have yet to see (come to know, understand, believe in) Him.
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It would be suspect if there was one group that was exempt from it dictates, but the Word says...."There is none righteous, [of their own ability], no, not one" Rom. 3:10 and "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God" Rom. 3:23
  
  If man had written it under his own hand, he would have exempted somebody....
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Why?
  The men who wrote were trying to make you believe in a terrible God !
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  (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It's called using critical thinking skills, without them, one will swallow any nonsense that comes along and will wind up learning nothing at all, but instead, will "believe."
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  qwarkposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Betteryou:
  "May be not totally surprised because the Bible actually records that,..."
  ..terrible English!
  What does this partial sentence mean to you? It has no meaning to me.
  TY
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  skyfireposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Bible is human written book so why it has to be interpreted from other than human philosophy ?
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And do you believe the divine inspiration of the Book of Mormon as well? If not, why not?
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm real fundamental....the book of Mormon....naw. Only because the author never makes any divine claims about himself beyond being inspired by God to write the book.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The difference being....? Besides which, bah, he had multiple and ongoing prophecies, callings, personal visitations, shoot he oughtta be right up there with Mo. ses. Moses.
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  cromestringsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What is written today in this forum will be difficult to understand 2000 years later.. so is the Bible.
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Hokeyposted 15 years ago
Believe nothing on the faith of traditions,
even though they have been held in honor
for many generations and in diverse places.
Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it.
Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past.
Do not believe what you yourself have imagined,
persuading yourself that a God inspires you.
Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests.
After examination, believe what you yourself have tested
and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto.

Buddha
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  betteryouposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I am not talking about imagination here and by what spirit are you actually testing?
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Do we really know what Buddha died believing?
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  Hokeyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Do we really know what Jesus died believing?
  
  Oh wait! He didn't exist! There is historical documentation of Buddha. Jesus is mentioned nowhere except the bible which is far from being accurate or even plausible.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  actually, Y`shua is mentioned in both Tor`ah AND Qu`ran.
  and that concludes today's doxology.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The bible, the quran and the book of mormon. All such reliable sources. The Torah doesn't really mention him.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The name "Jesus" does not, but the Hebrew word "Anointed One" and many other "names" defining manifest Elohim, all stem from Tor`ah. What bugs me is the Hebrew to Roman to Latin to Germanic based (English) translation.
  
  Hebrew and Arabic languages are often interpreted as "angry" when discussing things. I used to think my mum was arguing with my uncle, when if fact they were just talking about something silly. With regard to Tor`ah speech, the whole doomsday words of Elohim are just conversations about covenant.
  
  I once translated a Russian love poem to English, you would have thought it was a hate letter. LOL.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I've never yet seen an OT "messianic prediction" that really held up as refering to Jesus.
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betteryouposted 15 years ago
When I say divinely interpreted, it means someone who is inspired and led by the Spirit of God (The Holy Spirit).
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  But God doesn't exist. So you have to be delusional to in terprete the bible !
  That must be it !
  That's why I can't find anything meaningful in there.
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  If you have already decided that God doesn't exist then why do you care who is or who isn't delusional?
  
  I believe that under neath every protest, there is a smidgen of uncertainty....
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  Why all you believers think Atheists are uncertain of their beliefs ?
  I read the Bible twice and the Torah once. Could never find a real evidence of God in there. Only a lot of symbolic explanations of Man condition.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The bible does that well. The biblical god is just a later model Zeus. Very useful to psychology for describing and identifying the human condition and psychosis.
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes !
  and I would like to know why believers think we are so uncertain of our beliefs.
  
  That looks like a very awful human condition !
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The attacks along the lines of "Well why are you reading this if you are an atheist" is typical neurotic behaviour too. The premise seems to be the forum topic is religion, not religion and beliefs!
  Hate filled biblical crap and the exclusive superior position it offers is megalomania plain and simple. I know why I fight religion and so do all who don't go for a psychotic belief being spouted as "the truth".
  
  It is called common decency!
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And common sense.
  
  Maybe they don't want to be common !
  
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Makes them feel special.
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  calpol25posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I agree there earnest, because every time you look at the forums its always either attacking gay people, athiests, and everyone else that is not them, its just modern day nazism lol
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And each other! That is hilarious. MY god is the only god is the view held. Trouble with that is the religionists disagree with each other to the tune of thousands of religions ... all from the same book!
  
  I prefer workshop manuals, the gearbox always goes in the same place .... atached to the motor.
  I never saw the instructions vary to the degree where I am told to fit the motor in the glove box or under the sun visor!
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  calpol25posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  lol
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I find anyone who believes the biblical god or the christian religion to be highly offensive and insulting in and of itself. What kind of an azz must someone be to be okay with a belief that everyone else is a resister of goodness and bound to suffer an eternity in hell? It takes an especially low life form to be okay with that and call it love.
  
  That said I'm much more lenient on the masses who I realize have no idea what they've gotten themselves into. But regulars of forums such as this clearly have no such excuse. With Earn and Mark around, noone here could claim ignorance of the ramifications of the christian religion.
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  (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The delusional wish to propagate their delusions, make laws and run our societies and governments based on their delusions. In other words, they wish to destroy mankind.
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Hokeyposted 15 years ago
The bible is a man made book. Nothing else. Certain people proclaim it to be truth so of course others will show it's many errors and contradictions. I myself prefer Batman. Just seems a little more plausible.
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  hi hokey !
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  Hokeyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hi sweetheart. Thanks for your support and kind words. Love ya.
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Love you too !
  
  this thread is soooo funnyyyy!!!
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  betteryouposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Was it written by you?
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  We could write something better
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  betteryouposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Scrap book?
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You took your time to go to my profile !!
  do you want an autograph?
  
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  Hokeyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Would be the same thing. Scrap!!!!!!!!
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  Hokeyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I was figuring you wrote it and this was all a publicity stunt. A little free marketing. Maybe you should try Jack and the Beanstalk. Great story. Thanks for this thread. I needed a laugh.
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  (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It was written by men with no education whatsoever and who were steeped in myths and superstitions.
  
  Does that mean anything to you? Doesn't that set off all sorts of alarms?
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  Hokeyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I think he ran away. Took his book with him.
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tantrumposted 15 years ago

Ha ha !!
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Jeramiposted 15 years ago
I gotta share this computer by getting off of it ..But first

To answer the OP I would have to ask, Why does it have to be interpreted at all? Who first said that it has to be interpretated?
I think that if we could stop doin it at all; there would be much less arguement.
Realy ... Answer this ...
"who first said to interpretate scripture" ???
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  Rod Marsdenposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know who first said that it was okay to interpret scripture or, for that matter, the first person who said it was okay for people who were not part of the priesthood to have a go at interpretation. What I do know is that Martin Luther thought it was important for everyone, including people not connected with the church as church representatives, to have a go. With this in mind he translated the bible into a common language - German. Others came along and translated the bible into other common languages such as English.
  
  The Protestant revolution was based on the general idea that everyone who could read or could be read to in their native language had a right to understand the teachings of the bible in their own way. Of course this does not rule out guidance. It does, however, rule out dumb obedience.
  
  I tackle most topics from an historic angle. Human philosophy is part of the human experience and therefore part of our collective history.
  
  I like the freedom of making up my own mind about things and I doubt that it is now possible to put the genie back into the bottle, to stop people from reading the bible and coming to their own conclusions. You would have to go back in time and make sure movable type never came into existence for the printing press and you would have to stop the typewriter and then the P.C. from ever developing. I think that would keep you busy for a while.
  
  But Jerami, I know you are a level headed guy and you are not really talking about taking anyone's freedom to think for themselves away. Maybe the better and kinder answer is the fact that every time you translate something mistakes can happen. Greek does not translate exactly into Latin and Latin does not translate exactly into English or German. Translators with the very best of intentions can only, at the end of the day, do their best.
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  This proves to an extent something that I have been saying all along.
  I do not mean to offend in any way but you have just done this. (And thank you for the compliment)
  When people begin reading anything; Their mind thinks that it already knows what is about to read and then because of this we interpret this pre conclusion upon these things that we are reading.
  I agree with these things that you said though it sounds as if you disagree with what I said.
  I did not say what you thought that I said.
  When Translation of scripture into the comon language was a great thing.
  I said "INTERPRET" which is an intirely diffrent thing all together.
  Just came in to eat lunch gotta eat it now back in a few for a few.
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  Rod Marsdenposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I wasn't really in disagreement with you. I was just answering your question. At the same time I thought I might inadvertently misunderstand your intentions in answering the question so I was being cautious but still putting my views across.
  
  With anything written the reader will reach their own conclusions and therefore their own interpretation. A farmer might understand Jesus' parables dealing with farming better than a person who has lived his or her life in a city and has never been close to the soil. A person working for the tax department might understand the incident of Jesus dining with a tax collector better than say a person not in tax. And so it goes...Sometimes we are distanced by time and place and even occupation and we have to do our best to understand and thus interpret.
  
  Sifting through the words and seeing how the meaning balances should be done with some caution.
  
  Making changes to modernize should only be done with absolute caution. Mistakes have recently been made. I find a marked difference in the newest version of the King James bible. 'My cup floweth over' is quite different in meaning as far as I am concerned from 'my cup is full.' A full cup might be emptied but a cup overflowing if it is continuing to do so can be drunk from but never emptied so long as what is good is continuing to flow into it. This is my interpretation. Score one for the old King James bible. Back to the drawing board with the latest version.
  
  Maybe interpretation is a way of keeping the publishers honest.
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  After rereading your earlier post I see where I might have jumped the gun a bit.
  What I said about preconcieved ideas affecting what we are reading just struck again, I was guilty and I apologize.
  
  I do firmly believe that when we are reading scripture, we should always attempt to understand it with the bare minium amount of interpretation. If it makes sence as written we should not interpret it to mean something entirely diffrent just because we like that version better.
  Too many people do that.
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  qwarkposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Jer:
  True:
  About 38k differing interpretations of the OT have created 38k differing protestant sects (cults) worldwide....and the number is increasing as we type.
  I think it got too hot in the kitchen for the questioning hubber.
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  Rod Marsdenposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well qwark there is certainly heat here but that's okay. I could do with a sun tan.
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  AdeleCosgroveBrayposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  Actually, the first person who did this is named in the Bible as Paul - the guy who'd never met Jesus in person, but who took it upon himself to interpet things as he saw fit.
  
  The disciples (at least those who are named as having been Jesus's pupils) disagreed with much of what Paul preached - including Paul's idea that all a person had to do was believe without question. And thus was created the first schism of what gradually became Xtian dogma.
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  Rod Marsdenposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I think it was Paul who got a vision making it okay to preach to the gentiles and thus take Christianity out of just being part of Judaism. Paul founded a church on the principle that you didn't have to be Jewish or go along with what the Jews ate, etc to be a Christian. To us this is a no brainer but back then it was pretty radical stuff. He pushed the idea that the new testament was more important than the old testament and in some respects even supersedes the old testament.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Good point and well put.
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tantrumposted 15 years ago
One of the reasons I don't read the Bible any more, is the long chapters !!
like these long posts !
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philip carey 61posted 15 years ago
A little knowledge is good, but one has to drink deeply. You have to read more than just the Bible to understand Christian theology and Philosophy.

I think it will make sense when it needs to make sense. There are no atheists on the battlefield, as they say.

Peace
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Twenty One Daysposted 15 years ago
fool; foolish; foolishness:

Simple or Naive Fool: one who is gullible; lacks the most basic understanding of moral cause and effect.

Self-Confident Fool: stubborn; a big mouth.

Committed Fool: who has decisively rejected wisdom, pledged his allegiance to destructive ideas and behaviors.

Scornful Fool: a mocker, heckler who is openly contemptuous of spiritual truth and moral righteousness.

hmmm, that defined just about all of humanity.
what if someone is all of them?
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earnestshubposted 15 years ago
Time to hear from god himself again, just to show the love

(Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

Marry your rapist sounds like another of god's great ideas!

This sexist crud shows how women are viewed in the bible.
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Very Cool !!
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2. 92
  AdeleCosgroveBrayposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  So the poor woman is condemned to live out life with her rapist? The deity of love and compassion stikes again, hmm?
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  To be exact, this is not Elohim speaking, but Moses.
  So, let's blame the correct individual.
  
  The reason being is if she was removed of her virginity, she could not marry anyone else. She was then bought by the man and the duty paid to her fathers house.
  
  Divorce is considered unlawful because it caused bastard children, division of families and property, breaking up of the bloodlines.
  
  It's all old covenant and was ONLY for the Hebrews.
  
  btw, the word "rape" is not as we know it. It is not a violent offense. It simply meant having unmarried sex.
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Rayalternatelyposted 15 years ago
Imagine a scenario where all those fanatically in favour of any particular belief are right. Then wonder whether if it would be better to share a place in their "once we're dead, it'll be brilliant" place with them, or be on fire and not have to listen to them bang on about it.

On fire is kinda tempting!
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1. 60
  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah me too. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'd rather burn in hell than bend my knee to a psychotic such as the biblical god.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Exactly!
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Rod Marsdenposted 15 years ago
Nowadays if you don't believe in the bible or in someone's interpretation of the bible there are places you can go where you are not only safe but can actually continue to be a functioning member of society. Australia happens to be such a place. I believe above the Mason/Dixon line in the USA is also such a place. I'm not sure about Texas. It sounds like there are quite a few free thinkers down there.

I dread the day when religion in full force re-enters politics in my country. It may happen if Muslims get too pushy. If they do then some Christians will get pushy and before you know it you won't be able to work with someone unless you know what they do or don't believe. This would not be a great way to live. It is the way people still live in Lebanon and in parts of Indonesia and it stinks.

for those of you who have no wish to be Christian or possibly anything I wish you well. I believe that one of Christianity's strengths in countries like New Zealand and Australia is that nowadays it doesn't harm at least physically the non-believers. I just hope that attitude lasts.
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1. 60
  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You're generally physically safe south of the mason-dixon, but generally speaking you're an outcast.
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  Rod Marsdenposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well at least things haven't gotten as bad as I thought they had.
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  60
  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Here's an example. A lesbian senior at a high school in Louisiana I think it is, or Mississippi maybe, wanted to bring a female as her date to the prom. To avoid having that, the school board decided to cancel the prom. They did so with a statement that didn't address the reason they were cancelling, but which did ask that private citizens unite to throw their own party/dance for the graduating class of that particular school. Because that way, they wouldn't be required to invite the offensive lesbian to attend.
  
  I don't know what the girl's religious affiliations or sentiments are, but it's safe to guess what those of the school board are. Her schoolmates are blaming her for the cancelled prom, and there has been some harassment which has made returning to school difficult for the girl. They're not so much harassing her because she's gay, but because her request to bring a female date ruined their prom.
  
  Thankfully, at least her father is supporting her.
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  67
  Rod Marsdenposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I have heard about a Jewish school girl living in the bible belt. She was okay at school and was involved in sport and a lot of other social activities until they discovered her religion and that of her family. Then she was frozen out of sport and all other school social activities. She became somewhat a leper. Her younger brother was harassed physically as well as mentally. In the end the whole family left town.
  
  This was on a documentary about the rise of fundamentalism in the bible belt. I though it rather scary. It also showed the old monkey trial shtick returning. You know, attacks on anyone who thinks there's any substance to the theory of Evolution...As I say rather scary.
  
  In a true land of the free differing religions and differing ideas on how the earth came about should be tolerated if nothing else. I guess in some places it may take courage to bring that back. No wonder you say the land of the free and the home of the brave.
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2. 70
  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Me too, but Australia now has a fundy opposition leader who is as mad as a wet hen. He is known as "The mad monk" to some of us.
  He wants the bible taught in schools!
  Kevin Rudd our Prime Minister, although pretty sensible so far is also a religionist. Scary!
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  you know, in all fairness, why not teach both -theism & atheism.
  an unbiased approach, allowing the kid to decide for themselves.
  
  {never going to happen, i know, but just a thought }
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  55
  (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  They do teach theism in school, it's called mythology.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  there you go again, Q. "Mythology" is not theism.
  If it was, then science is included, since much of it has been concluded as false or oops, we need to change that.
  
  BTW, how does the genetically modified food program for those starving kids around the world going? Everybody fed yet?
  Just curious.
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  55
  (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  True. Theism is mythology.
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  70
  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
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  Rod Marsdenposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I thought religion was taught in Australian public schools but you had the choice of whether you wanted your kids to attend or not. I remember it was usually for an hour only on a Friday. You pick the church group, etc or not... Then in social studies there was comparative studies of religions from various parts of the world.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  True Ron, we used to call it "religious instruction" My son went to two religious schools, who did not ask him to participate in their religion in any way. Things have changed fortunately.
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Twenty One Daysposted 15 years ago
perhaps the textbook called bible is inaccurate, but so is every other book. anyway.

As for corruption/sin, it was before the writing of any book and any religion. How do you explain it without referencing any of the books within it.
Those books collective account for over 5000 years of human history and trillions of people who believe, dispute, consider and dismiss it- as well as it referencing multiple religions from three different perspectives?
How can someone claim such a thing is dead wrong yet use it to prove their perspective of an argument.

sounds a bit fanatical and narrow.
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1. 55
  (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  There you go.
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  0
  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  changing my words doesn't support your cause nor claim, Q.
  there you go...
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2. 67
  Rod Marsdenposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Dead wrong Twenty might be going too far...Just the occasional question mark.
  
  People once believed the world was flat and that proved to be not true. People once wrote about the heavenly bodies, including the moon, being perfect without tarnish or blemish because they were heavenly and belonged in God's immediate realm. Well, when people began looking through telescopes they found the moon was pock marked with craters...it was not perfect.
  
  What's more, it had been part of church thought that all the stars and planets and moons, etc revolved around the earth because mankind was at the centre of everything because we are THAT important. What a shock to the system when that was proven to be untrue. Just because it is written down and lots of people have believed it to be true doesn't always make it true.
  
  For well over a thousand years people believed there was a lost art in turning base metal into gold and that someday some alchemist will rediscover the secret. Plenty of books on alchemy and alchemists around. Paracelsus, probably the greatest alchemist of all time to possibly the exception of Newton, couldn't do it. Or as far as we know couldn't manage it but do cross your fingers...maybe the discovery of some ancient text will mean we can all eat out of gold soup bowls and cut up our chops with gold knives and forks.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LOL.
  the Midas touch?! jeje.
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  67
  Rod Marsdenposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The Midas touch? You betcha.
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waynetposted 15 years ago
Because animals have yet to talk about their feelings.
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Jeramiposted 15 years ago
Twenty One Days said.....
humans ever escape the prison of their own logic?

Believe it or not I remember thinking something similar to this as a kid looking up at the stars. You just brought back some memories ... We truly are "all" prisoners of our own mind.
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brianzenposted 15 years ago
The human experience of pain and death is documented well enough to presume that if it happened the way the bible says, it sucked. That does leave us to wonder why it was necessary though, If I were omnipotent, I would probably just say "Nah lets just skip the suffering" and upgrade the humans.
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1. 67
  Rod Marsdenposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  We have been told that God knows how things are going to turn out because he/she/ whatever is omnipotent. Now if you know how something is going to turn out why persist with it? Is it sort of like watching re-runs of your favorite movies and television show episodes? I don't really understand why God finds us so entertaining but he must otherwise we wouldn't be here striving and suffering. etc.
  
  Yes, it would be nice if God would upgrade us all but maybe that would take away the entertainment value.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well said, Brian, that was the plan.
  Humans were not supposed to suffer at all.
  The whole point of 'salvation' is simply to be upgraded, returning to the original being we were designed to be.
  
  A lot has happened in between which sucks, yes.
  I suppose and hope, at some point, humans will get it and escape the need to know factory and in -i think the phrase goes- a blink of an eye, be upgraded.
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  Rod Marsdenposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Why not have humans perfect in the first place unless you enjoy the drama of them not being perfect? How can you say humans were not supposed to suffer when dealing with an omnipotent being? It doesn't wash. And the free will shtick doesn't work for me. Again it comes down to if you know they are going to mess up with free will why give it to them? Answer? To watch them mess up. Bread ands circuses God style.
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