For every four people that leave the roman catholic church only one comes in. That is the new report from the church. Revelations promised a shaking of Satans church. "Come out of her my people" My only hope is that those who are coming out are finally finding some truth.
Soon the church that changed everything will seat satan for the last days. Come out.
This is the most difficult issue to properly understand and/or explain than any other topic in scripture.
I do believe that The Church that The Roman Empire built was the beast described in Rev 13. The 42 months that it is given to blaspheme would have to be "Prophetic Months"
This Church has led Christianity in a different direction than the one that it had been on before the universal Church came into being.
What exactly the answer is I am not sure.
You should read the Apocalypse of Peter from the Nag Hammadi.
I left the Catholic Church for Judaism. The best decision for me.
I almost converted to Judaism, but my rabbi three times refused, saying that the world simply needs more Catholics who love Judaism. Best decision I made was listening to him.
Don't worry sooner - people are leaving all the churches - not just your biggest competitor. People are sick of hearing about love and then seeing the way you people act.
If it is of any interest - the atheist movement is growing in leaps and bounds. Give it a few generations and we will out number the irrationals.
Sorry dude. You have heard of the age of aquarius - right? Even Jeebus said that was the end for him.
Who knows - perhaps we will finally have peace and no more wars in the Lord's name. What do you think?
Amen! Hallelujah, Mark!
Can I have a hallelujah in the house!?
Just not getting it are they? I mean - this guy comes back specifically to attack the Catholic church. On another thread - Valerie is attacking any other group to defend the same church, and we have a Muslim attacking everything to push his agenda that His god created everything and Jesus did not die on the cross.
Do they really want to see the final conflict? Is that their goal?
They're insecure about their beliefs.
But then again, maybe so are you.
Not in the slightest.
But - I think they are not insecure in their beliefs - they just need the conflict the bible calls for.
And if you didn't need conflict, what would you be doing here casting aspersions upon my character?
Merely asking a question. You have told me several times that I lack a moral compass, but you get your moral authority from a higher power. Yet - all you really seem interested in is defending the church by attacking all and sundry.
What should I do? Ignore your constant abuse?
Constant abuse? That's rich, coming from you. Who routinely shows up on the religious forums for the sole purpose of insulting religious people?
I'm just encouraging you to take a good look at yourself, because you decry in religious people the very same behaviors you seem to participater in yourself with great relish.
Apparently they DO want to see the final conflict and bring it.
I think religion is like horoscopes. It puts weird sh** in your head and you feel obligated to believe it. So now that everyone has read about Armageddon, they want to make sure it happens. Sick. I'd rather choose my life than live by that stuff.
Heck, you can probably have the whole darned house, D. Carter!
I actually agree with you Mark! (shakes her head and squirms a bit)
I left the catholic church years ago. My knees got tired, my hands were always sweaty from being clenched together & I could have gotten up front and run the whole show myself, I knew it all, word for word - except the "fear in god" sermons. The aerobic activity alone was too much for me.
By "Jeebus" do you mean Jesus?
And where/when did He say that?
Sorry, but as the atheist onslaught begins, you won't get much help from me. I'm not going to leave the Catholic Church, let alone for a foil-hat wearing group of conspiracy theorists who think the Anti-Christ will be Catholic, or Jewish, or Obama, or whatever the pariah du jour happens to be.
Hi friend sooner than later
Never mind; it is the era of the "Breaking of the Cross". The Mythical religion of Paul based on "Jesus dieing on Cross","Resurrection of Jesus from the dead" and "Jesus' suicidal attempt/voluntary-scarifice " is vanishing in the the thin air. The Deception of Paul has been exposed. As for the truthful religion of Jesus and Mary; which was very reasonable would flourish.
I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
I know, Right?
I agree pasurrey, the breaking of the cross is a good term for what's happening to the christ stains.
Hi friend Antecessor
Thanks for appreciating.
how rude you and paarsurrey are, transposing letters in words in order to insult the Christians' views.
Not that I expect you to stop your hogwash, but you will be called on it of course, sinners.
I agree that there's much much error in the Catholic Churches.
I also think there are some Christians there. Perhaps the Church will be reformed from the inside out?! Who knows?! But yes I've heard of many people who realized the bad setup and left that Church.
About damn time people are coming to their senses. How about that pope of theirs? He sounds like a real winner.
For me its not about the people in the church or those who run it- its about finding truth and leaving a state of confusion.
I left the Catholic Church, as well. But, now reject all mystical faith based religions that are fixated on the god concept.
My research of the tradition major 3 doctrines which lines all religions, were determined as unattainable or false.
Therefore, the god concept is found to be false. My research of religion was the best decision I ever made, because it provided me with the truth about life and showed me the true direction for living life.
Am I surprised more and more people are leaving the church? Nope, not at all.
here here cagsill- I agree all religions are nothing more than beliefs based on. . . nothing more!
I concur with what is written here.
Another thing that urks me about religion, is all the politics and money scams involved. I want nothing to do with a religion that promotes stealing from the poor, and robbing people of their basic rights.
Religion is nothing more than a mask, to disguise the real 'sinners.'
Yes and otherwise good people follow them. All they have to do is push the god button, and the good little sheep fall right into line, just as they always have, for every god, to generally disastrous effect.
i just left this past xmas. did all the research but it didn't make sense or add up
Great! Now if we could just get all the Protestants, and all other followers of man-made nonsense to leave as well, it would indicate that man is evolving.
any indication that man is evolving would shut up a vast majority of "wanting". too bad that will never happen for anyone so desparately dependent on the theory.
Here here. Finally somebody thinking logically. You are damn right my friend, get rid of all religions and see the evolutionarily progress of the human brain.
I left my church long ago, which religion does not matter. I found peace in just being Christian.
I believe in God and Jesus Christ, but have not found any church I feel comfortable with. So for now, I am Christian without a church label.
I have a very good friend, who practices the way you do. I think she is a better person for it. She has a broader scope of the perplexities involving different religions, than the people who drown themselves in thousand year old traditions. Her eyes were once shut, but now they are open to the real world.
I find myself, respectful of that kind of knowledge, when it comes to someone who is religious.
Religious "organizations" are off track. Doesn't mean that the object of their adoration isn't real.
A story about a real person place or thing may be proven to be flawed does not mean that The subject matter doesn't exist.
God is real; It is just that his advertisement and promotion needs fixing.
There are just as many storys about other people like Hercules or Beowulf. Do u think that just because there are storys that this is proof that these people really existed and did the things they did? Hercules was the son of a god, whether or not a person called Hercules existed, do you think it more likely that he really was the son of god, or that that part of the story was made up? Similarly anything magical about Jesus was also made up.
You ask that question because that is what you think that I said???????????????????????????????????????
I don't think That is what I said!!!!!!!!!!!!!
oh man, who let the cat into the rocking chair room.
still don't quite get it yet?
history is not story telling.
tell me a story Ante about some bones you found in east 'jabbip'.
and I'll show you the living word that will turn those bones to powder before your very eyes.
God is real; it is just that his advertisement and promotion needs fixing.
I agree with you with a little rephrasing it “God is real; it is just that the presentation and promotion needs fixing.” God here is not Jesus; God is the real Creator- God Allah YHWH. Jesus was only a servant of God.
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
How do u know god us real?
you are living proof He is.
let go of the darwin blindfold, man. It has been proven false by your own kind. Even still, who is to say that Gd didn't form evolution itself with the many creatures -apart from humans.
You could easily say that the creative will of god is the force that drives evolution....The desire to be is evolution itself! The MIND of God or the Spirit of the Absolute is the background, the power from which evolution is its expression. All manifestation can only have ONE source.
Just got back home (reason for delay in replies)
YEA WHAT YOU SAID..
And yet considering where the presentation and promation was coming from; Maybe ? I might have said it right.
The Catholics are going through a rough trot at the moment. Maybe they need reorganizing. It is easy enough to read all sorts of things into their present day troubles. Since the first century AD people have been looking for signs of the end of the world and they have been getting it wrong. Christianity was once thought of as a death cult because of the end of the world business.
Catholicism definitely needs reformation. Paul's creads of Jesus dieing on the Cross; and his resurrection from the dead and ascention to skies is too mythical. It is not valid in this Era.
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
so you're saying Paul -who obviously you have issues with- is the founder of the Catholic System? lol. That is humorous, but false.
Saul working with Peter, being a roman citizen, impressed upon them to accept Peter as the 'rock' upon which Rome should incorporate the ministry. This they believed would end the killing and torture of the brethren.
So, Rome accepts this doctrine and includes it in its practices of idolatry, making 'peace' between the pagans and the Christians and further upsetting the Hebrews. The revolt caused Rome to storm Jerusalem and destroy what was left of the temple. Meanwhile, Rome was killing off Gnostic-zealots like kids eat ice cream to suppress any internal rebellion against the worship of Diana/Artemus -whom Catholics depict in iconic art as Mary.
After Saul's death IN Rome, the believers were dismayed and fled to the safety. Thus the Roman Catholic church became the hub of all beliefs.
This is the latter days and mayhem, confusion and violence will follow. Very, very sad that in the end we will still never love our brothers and sisters as we were commanded to. Heavenly Father have mercy on us so many are lost.
Twenty one you bring up a really good point. How do you know that God didn't or did create the evolutionist chain founded by Darwin? Nobody can really argue that he didn't. Nobody knows that stuff for certainty. They might just think they know. I think he did. That has always been a given for me.
Well, one would have to believe god exists, in order to believe that god created anything, never mind, evolution.
I mean, technically, by the descriptions of god's will and power, apparently there isn't anything it cannot do. Besides, it knows everything, including the future of all choices.
Get serious people. Who buys into this garbage?
No wonder why the church is losing people....some people are coming to their senses.
Cagsil you point out things, that many people view a thousand different ways. Their opposing beliefs is not necessarily garbage. It is a focused view point or belief. Nothing more. Why are you so offended by them then? Is it simply because we view things differently than you?
Are you not okay with that? Isn't it a little self centered and shallow?
Yeah I buy into the thought process that God developed space. That over that time continuum, creatures and life in general has evolved. I think that God knew that we would need certain resources that could have only been provided to mankind- through evolution. Like oil for instance. Now was all that preordained, somewhat but not all. Does God have a master plan, I don't know. The only thing I do know, is that something greater than us designed the human heart, atoms, earth, molten lava, rocks, crystals, neurons, or even the human cell.
I think God did that. However, I don't feel that my viewpoint should be belittled with words like garbage.
First off IE, I am not offended by them. I do see where the belief comes from and I can understand that it would be different than my view.
A little self-centered and shallow? I'm not. Considering my answer above.
Nice and neat, and irrelevant. The "GOD" concept is imaginary, plain and simple.
If that's the way you feel about it, then so be it.
I sorry if you're offended. But, in reality, god doesn't exist. And, to speak as if it did exist is nonsense. You can believe god is whatever you choose to, but if you're going to deem other people's views as belittling, then I wouldn't express your views.
Yes, you have a right to free speech and I'm not telling you do not. However, I am going to tell you that I have the same right and if you don't like the words I use....then I would suggest an ego check and a self check. Because, if you find any words said by anyone as an insult, simply because they use words you do not agree with..then it is your own subjective bias view getting in your own way from discussing things openly and freely. If you cannot deal with standing on the soap box, screaming at the top of your lungs, while someone else does the same...then you don't belong debating anything.
Hon it is not that I'm offended. I was defending a posters right to have a belief, without you calling it garbage for NO reason. You original "garbage" post gave no reasons for your argument.
Ok? What's up with that?
Usually very shallow people converse like that. I don't think you are that way, or I wouldn't have asked. Maybe you didn't quite see it as other readers might. That is all I was bringing out to the fore front. To just call something garbage in a forum such as this...., well I just think it deserved something more than one word slams. I'm done with this point respectively.
As regards to myself, so you don't believe the same as I. Great. However, you don't seem me writing words like garbage towards your educated opinion.
That's all Ron.
To be lost is sad but to aspire to be lost is pathetic.
Evolutionists seem to think that mankind; if we do not destroy ourselves will continue to Evolve into a higher state of Concience and knowledge? Is that possible ??
Buddhists feel this way. I think it is possible. Isn't that the overall purpose of evolution? To adapt and survive? To become better and stronger?
Yea I think so too.
So If Mankind can continue in the quest for enlightnment and knowledge; we do not destroy ourselves I wonder how long it will take to reach this highest form of knowledge? And how many laws of nature we might be able to overcome?
Well if you believe anything like the Buddhist, it can be possible to reach that level on conscientiousness in this lifetime. For others it takes many lifetimes. I think it must be dependent on the person.
Said like the true religious orphan, that you are. But you are right Julie, religion and beliefs are dependent on the person. As you very well already know, I think its all bird-shit. Although, if a mutual understanding could take place; where everyone adheres to the concept, that all persons are entitled to think their own way, could very well be the key to world peace.
What a notion my good friend. If only it could come to pass. What then?
Mornin PB I say sure why not also if we can keep from blowing ourselves up' It depends on if we can get over the last hurdle.
I've always heard that "A little knowledge is dangerious".
Do ya think we'll ever figure out the time travel thingie and maybe travel back before manking ever was??
I'm going to have to go to work again to day. be checking in every 5-10 minutes till I leave.
Morning, Jerami, hope all's well with you.
I don't know about the whole time travel thingie. Well, I don't know about alot, actually, but I have no opinion on time travel.
You're right, of course, as Q or Qwark is always saying (I always get those two mixed up) we'll likely end up killing ourselves before we get too far. I'm a bit more of an optimist myself, generally speaking.
But barring that, I do indeed believe we will continue to evolve. Mentally, if not always physically.
Yea the time travel thingie was reaching a bit too far on the realm of posabilities but that would make a great twilight show. Been thinking about that a little today
(not while working; .. while driving home)
there are more posibilities in that day dream than one might supose???
I just don't see much sence in evolving much farther unless we as a race can break through what we supose are laws of nature??
Breaking through the laws of nature. Huh..
Well I guess we're doing that already, in alot of ways, but of course you mean in a bigger, more supernatural sort of way, such as time travel.
I dunno. Seems to me we have enough to deal with. Like what is the point of evolution if people basically never advance anyway?
For me, I'm more interested in the evolution of human knowledge, sentiment and ability. I don't ask for much. I don't want time machines or the ability to read minds or anything. I'd love to see humans... put everything in perspective though.
I mean, we have alot of knowledge that we choose to do nothing with. We have too much data. We are not effective data processors.
Anyway. Hope your beer makes your back feel better!
I didn't say that my back was hurting ; You must be psychic
that is where all of my troubles are at.
I don't know about time travel but if it was possible at some point in the future that would answer a lot of questions.
Yes, I am psychic, and my psychic abilities tell me not only that your back will trouble you after you climb up and down a ladder all day long, but also that your quest for wisdom is hindered only by your search for a god.
That is what the box of Pandora tells me, and I pass the vision on to you. So be it. Come out of the Dark Side, Jerami...
Actually I was thinking as the human race as a whole.
And it it can who is to say what kind of things that it will be capable of. Maybe even time travel. And imagine what "They" might be able to do with that ability?
My husband loves the idea of time traveling. I guess according to Eisenstein(sp), time travel was a possibility? I cannot remember, but my Michael loves movies about time travel and books about it too.
Well have you or Michael ever thought that it might be possible that the race did last long enough to accomplish time travel.
And they returned to our past and to diffrent points in our future effecting the human race in ways that we do not understand.
Could they be able to effect a state of eternity???
Could they could travel back to before humanity existed ??
Whoooo down ... that thought could get freeky.
Just saw what time it is. Got a long day tomorrow. So guess I better go throw myself down in the bed.
See all yaul in the AM with coffee.
I agree pasurrey, the breaking of the cross is a good term for what's happening to the Christ stains.
Brenda Durham wrote:
How rude you and paarsurrey are, transposing letters in words in order to insult the Christians' views?
Hi friend Brenda Durham and Pandoras Box
Do you have any objection if the Church is reformed and set on the right path that Jesus and Mary followed? It will no doubt result into "breaking of the Cross" that tortured him; yet not with any compulsion but with reason.
Truth will prevail and triumph.
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
I dunno what you mean by the breaking of the cross.
And you're way too focused on Mary.
Mary isn't deity.
Mary is a woman who died long ago. She has no power or influence on anything anymore, except in the foolish minds of those people who wish to make her into a goddess.
Doh! Ummmmmmmmmmm? Wasn't it your religion that turned a man into a God. To say Mary, the Madonna is not a deity is a very ignorant statement.
paarsurrey you can't even see clearly what is right in front of you.
predictably atheism is growing quite rapidly in the States and most notibly throughout Europe. But Christianity is thriving and growing in most other nations. Down here in Costa Rica for example- Adventism has exploded. all of central america has become extremely interested in Protestant Christianity as far as that goes. I feel with deep soul searching and prayer God will reveal the best path for all. "it is not a battle of men, but of principalities" and Jerami I agree that Christianity has changed deeply because of Catholisism as well. From the first Pope who babtised soldiers and their horses it has been a blasphemous mockery to Christianity.
Christianity has needed little help to achieve the same outcome.
Other churches have plenty of sickos as well.
Yup - education is the death knell of a bronze age religion.
What you need is a large pool of ignorant peasants. Good for you - moving back in time to a place where there is no education system in place. I bet the natives look to you for guidance.
Still - you can probably live out your life there without worrying about them discovering science. Tell them about the big boat and god's wrath - I bet that one goes down really well. They have probably never heard of kangaroos - and if they have - you can tell them it is a liberal lie spread by Satan. I mean - who would actually believe a kangaroo could exist?
This is how it went in Europe and now the US. See? Catholicism. Too restrictive. Protestantism. Puritanical hypocrites. See? Eventually - the people learn that it is all BS and move to atheism.
This is called "evolushun." No stopping it - sorry.
Funny thing is - the Muslims think it is their influence that is causing the Katholiks to lose followers. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
I can smell the family values from here. The love you project is powerful juju.
sooner than later said ... and Jerami I agree that Christianity has changed deeply because of Catholisism as well. From the first Pope who babtised soldiers and their horses it has been a blasphemous mockery to Christianity.
The sad part is that....
" we just don't know what we don't know... YA Know ?"
This may be hard for some to try
.... there is no fairy in the sky.
The reporting we are seeing about the pope scandal is forcing a little transparency from the Vatican. A rare thing.
As the gruesome details are emerging, the phrase "Holier than thou" is changing from a noble quality (from the point of view of the followers I mean) to the negative quality that the phrase has when it describes anybody else.
Shine a bright light into a dark room and watch the roaches scatter.
The spiritual side of religion is good, but religion was just set up by the powerful people as a means to control the masses. Every religion almost, be it Catholic, Chrisitan, Judaism, or Muslim.
What do you think the crusades were about? There were so many places that could not be conquered by force, but could be conquered by religion. Why do you think all of South America speaks Spanish?
religion was just set up by the powerful people as a means to control the masses. Every religion almost, be it ... Chrisitan, Judaism, or Muslim.
I don't agree with you. Jesus,Moses and Muhammad were not powerful persons to start with.
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
I don't think the blame is being put on Jesus, Moses and Mohammad. Wasn't it the Romans who through religious dogma instilled fear into the masses, rewrote that darn bible and subliminally created sleepers. Those sleepers have spread like cancer and have no idea they are asleep. Interestingly they are now calling non-Christians sleepers which shows how the Romans did a very very good job.
I didn't know that you were so travelled; you knew that Central American children were not educated? haha.
You need to get out more. I'll pray for that right now.
for marky mark. I love you.
I was an uber-Catholic once because my family brought us up that way. I learned self-discipline through the church, though, as an adult, I learned that the church, itself, had none.
I have studied many religions and have come to the conclusion that religions all have in common a number of characteristics:
1) the practice of fear to herd their "flocks" around
2) all are misogynistic in nature
3) all are about building and keeping power for the insiders,
you know, like politicians and bankers
4) all are hypocritical about the beliefs in which they pretend
I still believe in the God I have come to know through seeking and explanation for my existence, though, whether you do or not is between you and your own soul (you could be right; who knows?); I don't believe the myths because a few moments applying Jung very quickly reveals them to be forms of indoctrination and propaganda. I also have come to feel that each individual's strife to live a decent life is just as important as anyone else's, but no one has the right to force his or her beliefs on anyone else.
Most of the wars humanity has suffered are caused by a bull-headed desire to force a religious belief or idealogy on everyone else. The instigators use religious zealots to foment a fake anger to create an "us against them" slave force to grab power. FYI: If your god(s) are so powerful, they do not really need your puny protection. And if you are right about them and others are not, so what? Time will tell. What right do you have to impose your beliefs on other? None.
You who have studied Christianity will notice Christ never once mentioned waging war or imposing Himself on others; in his teachings hatred, anger, and vengeance are not acceptable. I am sure the same is true in theory for every other religious body as well. God is not the enemy; atheists and agnostics are not the enemy; religion is the enemy. We are given intelligence and free will; we have a right and an obligation to use them.
Chasing Cars, I cannot agree. 1-4 don't remind my of my church at all. many churches are really trying to do their best; looking for answeres, helping others and being transparent.
We must be careful to avoid the religion catch phrases that are so popular and yet with malice intent. Places of the malice agenda- news, adult cartoons(most outwardly), radio, movies and just about anywhere multitudes of people can be effected. So, while many may think that people are getting wiser by leaving religion in America it is a process of becoming more comfortable with the things we hear day to day that have no truth. That does not make the battle any better- actually far worse because it is (I say again) the battle of "Principalities, Powers, World Rulers of Darkness, and Spiritual Wickedness in High Places" is not an easy battle to see your enemies.
I'm not here to battle a church, I am here to talk about those principalities. By the way, Jesus did speak of the true church- so you can bet that there is one. That does not mean everyone that is not in that church is doomed but wouldn't it be a Christians desire to find some truth?
The problem with churches is just that, they are TRYING instead of doing. But that is about to change -and i don't mean a new pass-the-basket either.
na, you just don't see what they are "doing" on the agenda filled news stations. Besides, would you watch Christians are "doing" on the news all day long? heck no. Polls would drop too.
exactly, peops need to drop the poles and start living.
believers aren't 'doing' much of anything despite all the mega churches in the West and missionaries in the East.
The difference between living in Grace and wanting to live in grace is just a step away. woohoo!
you need to sign yourself up for some news letters and start seeing what people are doing.
anyway, peace to you. Sooner is out.
sooner, nothing personal, newsletters are really not going to help.
religion is failing fast, so is science. we are nearing a time when people will stop looking and start living. the atheists are not going to like it any more than the theists.
o-de-la-le, bring on the Grace!
listening to cold play -the scientist as i type
I'm sure that is a lofty dream to some. I must admit I have never heard that stance before. Can't agree but interesting none the less.
The paedophile scandal has caused a lot of unease within the Church.
And their real attitude towards it keeps finding it's way in to their speeches. The pope decided that over Easter he won't mention the paedophiles, as his mate just dropped another clanger about how the church feels about this.... they feel persecuted! That went down like a lead balloon!
Well, how would you feel if someone spit on you and accused you of being one of the worst kinds of criminals all because you ventured out in black with a white collar?
Well for starters I would not be comparing it to the Jewish experience as this lunatic did!
The most notorious pedophile ring in all of history. Is it any wonder people are leaving?
No wonder at all. I hope the same happens to all the other churches soon, they have managed to stay in the background so far, but more is coming.
No doubt you'll look forward to it, nwhich means to me that you're more interested in the downfall of religion than in children's welfare.
If you really cared, you'd address the problem without using those abused to grind your axe. I think these kids are and should be tired of being used by people on all sides.
Valerie, the downfall of religion is about child welfare when it comes to child sexual abuse. The beliefs attract these delusional deviates.
I do my bit for kids.
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