"The Quran teaches its followers to lie to non-Muslims."!!!!????

1. 51

   paarsurreyposted 14 years ago

   http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/39744?page=4#post926376
   
   Beelzedad wrote:
   
   The Quran teaches its followers to lie to non-Muslims. 
   Hi friend Beelzedad
   
   Paarsurrey wrote:
   
   Please quote the text of the verse from Quran. Please also provide five preceding verses and five following verses for the usual short context; so that the verse is correctly understood.
   
   Thanks
   
   I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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2. 51

   paarsurreyposted 14 years ago

   Hi friend Beelzedad and other Skeptics
   
   You are welcome to discuss on the subject to find Truth; yet I find no reply from you.Perhaps you found no such verse in Quran; there is none in fact.
   
   You are under no compulsion to admit your mistake; of course you said it on hearsay and now you cannot establish it. Is that the case with you?
   
   Thanks
   
   I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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   1. 58

      Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      You can take any one of paarsurrey's posts to see these tactics. For example, calling everyone friend, thanking and leaving off with a "peaceful Muslim" claim are all part and parcel to Taqiyaa tactics.
      
      Followed are usually claims of how Islam overtook sliced bread as the greatest thing. Attempts to deflect, deceive and confound are all captured in his responses to anyone's criticism of his claims or Islam.
      
      When I saw the "no compulsions" I had to really chuckle. Perfect. 

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      1. 66

         FranyaBlueposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         can we agree to say that the translation of the general meaning of the word Taqiyaa is diplomacy. Nothing wrong with diplomacy.

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         1. 58

            Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I'd rather go with the actual translation: concealing, precaution, guarding. 

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            1. 60

               tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Which is a very accurate description of Diplomacy !
               

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                  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  I agree..someone can hate you but still be diplomatic..which is concealing, deceiving...

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                  1. 60

                     tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Hi Deborah! nice 2 C U !

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                        Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        Nice to see you too Tantrum.

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                  2. 51

                     paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Hi friend Debora Sexton and tantrum
                     
                     Well, I don't hate you; I just respect you both.
                     
                     Thanks

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                        Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        Oh,  no..I was saying that in comparison

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                     2. 60

                        tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        I wasn't talking about you. Just stating a definition for diplomacy.
                        If you respect me or not, I really don't care.

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                        1. 0

                           Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           You and I have more in common then was thought in the beginning.
                           It's obvious there are a lot of people here who don't like me..It doesn't change who I am..and I couldn't care less.

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                           1. 60

                              tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              Yeah !! I think it's hilarious to say the least LOL
                              People don't liking me or you , I mean !

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                              1. 58

                                 Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 I like both of you, with strawberries and cream topped with Grand Marnier.

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                                    Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                    Wish you would take off your mask..
                                    
                                    That is a mask right? Kidding.

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                                    1. 58

                                       Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                       When your born with a round red nose, unmanageable hair and a glistening smile, you have to make the most of it.

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                                 2. 60

                                    tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                    Good to know ! I'll put you in my VIP list !

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                                 Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 You have to tell me about your daughter's singing career sometime.
                                 
                                 Is she your only child?

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            2. 66

               FranyaBlueposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               "diplomacy is the employment of tact to gain strategic advantage" Which is in line with what you were saying about there being honor in duping. It's all the same.

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               1. 58

                  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Diplomacy is simply negotiation, the handling of a situation. Of course, you can employ concealment, precaution and guarding within the negotiations, but they are only characteristics of negotiation and not defined as such. 

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3. 58

   Beelzedadposted 14 years ago

   It's called Taqiyaa. 

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   1. 66

      FranyaBlueposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I thought that Taqiyaa meant lie through fear, as in a Muslim can lie and say they are not a Muslim IF they will be killed for saying so. I don't think it applies to any other situation.

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      1. 58

         Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Then, you would be wrong. 

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            FranyaBlueposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Says you.

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            1. 58

               Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               The example you provided is something most believers would do for their religions.
               
               Shame, honor and power are held in strict regard and have more to do with the Arab world than the morals we derive for them. Taqiyaa is the embodiment of this culture in Islam.

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               1. 66

                  FranyaBlueposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Some sects see Taqiyya as a compulsory action when faced with death but the majority of Muslims who are Sunni feel that it is still a lie and that our fear should be for Allah and not for any human.

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                  1. 58

                     Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     It really has little to do with death and everything to do with taking what you can get and being one step ahead. Lying and cheating are not held with the same moral standards we might have. There is honor in duping.

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      2. 0

         Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Even David pretended to be insane because he was afraid of a king..
         
         ! Samuel 21
         12. David took these words to heart and greatly feared Achish king of Gath.
         
         13. disguised his sanity before them, and acted insanely in their hands, and scribbled on the doors of the gate, and let his saliva run down into his beard.
         14. Then Achish said to his servants, “Behold, you see the man behaving as a madman. Why do you bring him to me?
         
         15 “Do I lack madmen, that you have brought this one to act the madman in my presence? Shall this one come into my house?”

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   2. 51

      paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Hi friend Beelzedad
      
      If it is mentioned in Quran, the first and foremost source of guidance of the Muslims whatever the denomination; then please give the text of the verse and the verses in context; total eleven verses as requeted.
      
      Thanks
      
      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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      1. 0

         Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         He always tells everyone they are wrong...He won't even try to prove he's right because he knows he is going by what others say.
         
         Most people here haven't picked up the Quran mush less read it.

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         1. 58

            Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Perhaps, you've noticed my responses to parrsurrey employ pretty much the exact same tactics of Taqiyaa that parrsurrey is using in all of his posts. These tactics have been brought over from the tribal Arab culture and embedded into Islam.

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         2. 66

            FranyaBlueposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Yeah that's what I gathered.

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            1. 58

               Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               That too would be wrong. 

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               1. 66

                  FranyaBlueposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Says you

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                  1. 58

                     Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     I've been explaining along the way, have I not? 

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                     1. 66

                        FranyaBlueposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        That would be wrong. 

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                        1. 58

                           Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           Calling me a liar?
                           
                           There is another form of deception permitted in Islam towards non-believers; kitman which is "lying by omission." Muslim apologists use these tactics all the time.
                           
                           A good example is one you offered in regards to Taqiyaa only being used in matters of being threatened with death.

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                           1. 66

                              FranyaBlueposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              I usually use hedging language which ensures that I'm not telling any lies Saying that I don't think it applies to other situations does't mean that people don't apply it to other situations.

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                              1. 58

                                 Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 Hedging is like dodging or circumventing, also tactics employed in deceiving. These traits are all captured in Islam and have been part of the Arab culture long before Muhammad. 

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                                 1. 66

                                    FranyaBlueposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                    Yes, i'm dodging the saying of any lies just in case I'm ever wrong which is always possible since i'm human

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                                    1. 58

                                       Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                       Taqiyaa would be dodging using lies which is possible because its origins are from long standing Arab culture. 

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         3. 51

            paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Hi friend deborah sexton
            
            I never thought you would turn to me. You are welcome. It is always useful to discuss with intellignet person like you.
            
            If the Skeptics say I think; it is their moral duty to establish it form the root sources.
            
            Is it not their duty?
            
            Are they morally right to say out of hearsay ?
            
            Thanks
            
            I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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4. 76

   skyfireposted 14 years ago

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZEGsnWZKh8
   
   I see, god enlightened too much to this religion such that they're showing these symptoms eh?
   
   Lie or "word of god" conspiracy ??
   
   Quran preaches 'hell to non-believers" this is where it lie as if any entity like god exist then it gives rats a** to whether person is believer or non-believer. is god jobless retard to tell believers to kill non-believers ? i mean create two types in same species with just psychological difference of "belief" and asking another type to kill just because of "belief". God must be "jobless bored retard" to order something like that in any religious book.

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5. 51

   paarsurreyposted 14 years ago

   FranyaBlue wrote:
   
   That would be wrong. 
   
   Beelzedad responded:
   
   Calling me a liar?
   
   Paarsurrey says:
   
   I respect you; as you people say that you are people of reason; so I won't pronounce that. I would just say that you are mistaken.
   
   Now you and/ or other Skeptics have to prove and establish that you are not mistaken. If you cannot do that; and I know you cannot; that would be your freedom of thought.
   
   Would you like to enjoy your freedom of thought?
   
   Thanks
   
   I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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   1. 58

      Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I respect you, but you have rejected the truth.
      
      
      
      You must believe in the truth and not be so skeptical. No compulsions.

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6. 51

   paarsurreyposted 14 years ago

   Beelzedad wrote:
   
   There is another form of deception permitted in Islam towards non-believers; kitman which is "lying by omission."
   
   Paarsurrey says:
   
   You are already overburdened to prove “Taqiyaa” from Quran, the first and the foremost source of guidance, whatever the dimension; when you are finished with that then you can of course switch over to “kitman” at your leisure. I won’t mind if other Skeptics help you out of this burden or overburden.
   
   Thanks
   
   I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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   1. 58

      Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Quran 2:225, 3:38, 16:106, 9:3, 40:28, 66:2.  Happy versing.

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7. 76

   skyfireposted 14 years ago

   glad you asked about that but Islam and freedom of thought ?
   
   No kidding...freedom something like this ?
   
   

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   1. 66

      FranyaBlueposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I went swimming in the sea at Portsmouth looking a bit like this, although my face and hands were not covered. More fun than you might think.

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         Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Wouldn't the weight of a wet Bhurka drag you down in water over your head?

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            IntimatEvolutionposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Man that had to be heavy.

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               Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               As well, the woman usually wears a dress under the Bhurka. Wearing that much material while swimming would surely drag you under.

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               1. 66

                  FranyaBlueposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  No the fabric is quite lightweight, even when wet. It has to be lightweight or it would get too hot.
                  
                  Have you been looking under women's Bhurkas??

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         2. 66

            FranyaBlueposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            No.

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      2. 58

         Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         So - you wear a Bhurka little red-headed girl?

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         1. 66

            FranyaBlueposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            No, I said I wasn't covering my face.
            
            That little red haired girl is my 4yr old sister

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            1. 60

               tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Beautiful girl. Where R U from?
               Family origin I mean

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               1. 66

                  FranyaBlueposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Thanks!
                  
                  My entire family for the past few generations were all born in England so we say we are English. However, my family tree is one of many branches and my lil sisters dad is Polish.
                  
                  BUT....we have traced our family tree back to the Spanish Moors. Just thought I'd add that bit in probably more than you were asking for!

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                  1. 60

                     tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     thanks for the reply.
                     I asked because  it seems you're Muslim. I thought maybe you were fro Syria or Lebanon because of the red hair .

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                        FranyaBlueposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        lol. The red hair is photoshopped, could it be classed as a lie??

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                           tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           
                           It can be deceiving

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      3. 76

         skyfireposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Maybe fun for you. But you don't realize slavery and suppression in that case.

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         1. 66

            FranyaBlueposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Clothes never enslave anyone. If I am free to decide that I want to go swimming in my clothes or wear a scarf or even wear nothing then how is that slavery or suppression?
            
            It is people who enslave people, forcing someone to wear something is the same as forcing someone not to wear something. No one should be forced.

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8. 51

   paarsurreyposted 14 years ago

   "The Quran teaches its followers to lie to non-Muslims."!!!!????
   
   Hi friends
   
   The above was only an allegation of the Skeptics here; they alleged out of hearsay; and when asked to quote it from Quran, they just could not.
   
   In fact Quran is truthful; it promotes truth , peace and respect of others. Quran commands to be with the truthful persons:
   
   [9:119] O ye who believe! fear Allah and be with the truthful.
   
   http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … ;verse=114
   
   Thanks
   
   I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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   1. 58

      Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      An excellent example of the title. Thank you. 

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      1. 66

         FranyaBlueposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I just read this and noticed something.
         
         Paar said:
         
         THE skeptics
         THEY alleged
         THEY just could not
         
         It seems that he is talking about the skeptics who don't
         believe and are therefore non-muslim.
         
         Even the Quran quote addresses the believers
         
         So, from looking at the language used, what he said
         isn't a good example of the title because he isn't talking
         to non-muslims
         
         
         Don't mind me, I'm just practicing my text analysis skills

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         1. 58

            Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Ignoring the simple, obvious fact that paarsurrey is attacking atheists, Christians and all and sundry non-muslims, and ignoring the fact that he is cut-and pasting arguments and does not have English as a first language will skew your text analysis quite drastically.
            
            Still - you are here for the semantics I suspect. like all good believers.

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            1. 66

               FranyaBlueposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Yep just semantics
               
               Don't worry I am the first to skew what I write! Just wanted to see if anyone else would.

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               1. 58

                  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Yes - semantics. Good for you. Lots of believers need to do that. I don't blame you. I would if I believed the same stuff you do.
                  
                  

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                  1. 66

                     FranyaBlueposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Your contribution to the forums would be more appreciated in my thread on cooking my lamb overnight. I know you write recipes so get over there!

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                        Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        I think recipes for cooking pork would be more appropriate on a Muslim forum, don't ya think?

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                        1. 66

                           FranyaBlueposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           The thing about being an English Muslim means I get the pork jokes from my family everyday. Thanks for making me feel at home

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         2. 58

            Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            It would appear more as if your practicing Taqiyaa, but if that's what you want to call it, so be it.

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9. 76

   skyfireposted 14 years ago

   "Islam dictates on what to wear" << this is the point. People opposing this are not asking women "not to wear anything" but asking for their freedom of choice, which is not biased to any religious unproved claims.

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10. 76

    skyfireposted 14 years ago

    Because your religion says so. Your that decision or choice is based on religious rules and not your personal decision. Only Islamic womens will think like this that "it's fun or no-slavery to accept religious burden" as it's part of their freedom of choice.

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    1. 66

       FranyaBlueposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       so it isn't really enslavement or suppression then if it is part of their freedom of choice. It is only enslavement or suppression to anyone who is forced and hasn't chosen it for themselves. There are plenty of Muslim women who have chosen not to wear it, just because it's something that is a part of the religion or something which Islam dictates doesn't mean that anyone MUST follow it.

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       1. 58

          Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Because perhaps, they don't live in a Muslim state? 
          
          
          
          Muslims MUST. That's the point.

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11. 59

    Obscure Divineposted 14 years ago

    Here I was, thinking the Quran just promoted innocent suicide bombers...now, they admit that they lie to non-Muslims.  Geez!  Y'all anti-swine, anti-alcohol Muslim folks sound dangerous!!!  To think you guys were promised how many virgins in heaven upon the Murder Death Kill of who all that doesn't follow ya?
    
    Thanks,
    
    I am chaotic Agnostic with an insane Actuality to combat Asininities.

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    1. 58

       Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       The Arab culture is very different from our own, lying is not held up as a moral standard but instead, a tactic to be used in all negotiations, that's why it is captured in Islam, so as to give all Muslims the tool they need to protect Islam from criticism.

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       1. 59

          Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Yeah, sort of like the way Politicians do in the U.S.? 

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12. 51

    paarsurreyposted 14 years ago

    Obscure Divine wrote:
    
    Here I was, thinking the Quran just promoted innocent suicide bombers...now, they admit that they lie to non-Muslims. 
    
    Paarsurrey says:
    
    They are doing terrorest acts on their own. Quran/Islam/Muhammad do not support them.
    
    Thanks
    
    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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    1. 59

       Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       'Paarsurrey' the "peaceful Muslim" doesn't seem to understand sarcasm, nor the fact that many of these kooks die for Muhammad while performing these outrageous acts of insanity.
       
       Thanks,
       
       I am chaotic Agnostic with an insane Actuality to combat Asininities.

       replyreport
13. 51

    paarsurreyposted 14 years ago

    Hi friends
    
    The Quran does not teaches its followers to lie to anyone. Quran is very straightforward.
    
    Thanks

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    1. 68

       Pearldiverposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Straight Forward Huh? Yeah Right!!!
       
       I guess that's why it is read Back-The-Front
       
       Why are you Preaching here?
       
       Many of us are Insulted by being referred to as Infidels!

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       1. 51

          paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Hi friend Pearldiver
          
          If the following meaning given in the dictionary are not valid on your concepts; then Quran does not address you as infidel:
          
          infidel (plural infidels)
          1.    A non-believer of a certain religion
          2.    One who does not believe in a certain principle
          3.    One with no religious beliefs.
          http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/infidel
          
          Quran addressed the Meccans of the time of Muhammad as infidels; and they had no objection to it.
          
          I am only expressing what I believe as truthful; others are open to criticize me if I am wrong with their reasonable , rational and logical arguments. It is an excersice of finding truth if it is with my other fellow human beings. I am sorry; they start deriding; from which I know they are finished with their reason.
          
          Thanks
          
          I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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             Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             That is because you view any criticism of Islam as derision, which you were taught to do by the Quran.

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    2. 58

       Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       You are lying and you were taught to lie as a result of your religious beliefs in the Quran, which teaches you to lie to infidels. I have provided many passages from the Quran already.
       
       No compulsion to you.

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14. 61

    errum fattahposted 14 years ago

    paars...leave him wat will u do with beelze... he's responsible for his own deeds, if somebody is talking with respect than thats the person whom should we talk not the person who dont knows how to respect any religion...

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    1. 58

       Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Paarsurrey has no respect for anyone here, why should he get any?

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          Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          I agree; Paarsurrey seems to spam the forums with the redundant self-proclaimed title of "peaceful Muslim" and is yet to prove that he/she even uses toilet paper! 

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15. 62

    Disturbiaposted 14 years ago

    Have any of you even read the Quran?

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    1. 58

       Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       I have. It's easy and boring reading and all online for your perusal.

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       paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Hi friend disturbia
       
       One may access and read Quran:
       
       http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/index.php
       
       Thanks
       
       I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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16. 73

    LeanManposted 14 years ago

    Just want to join in and clarify a few things...
    
    I am not muslim and I have not read all of the relevant book but I have read some... I have lived in saudi arabia for 2 years...
    
    The lie is not confined to non-believers, they lie non stop here about just about everything!!! Why they didn't come to work, why they didn't do anything all day, you name it they talk rubbish.. even if they say they will do something you know they won't because they end the sentence "Inshallah" (god willing).. it always means that it wont be done!
    
    The biggest bunch of hypocrites I have ever had the misfortune to work with - good job they pay well!

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