I don't believe in a god by the way, but I do believe that a man named Jesus lived. I just don't believe that he was a son of god, instead just a pretty nice bloke with lots to write.
That isn't my topic though, my topic is, do you believe that Jesus was a white man as so frequently depicted or a black man?
Yes there is motive in this thread, it is to try and gauge whether or not their are any christians on this forum who deny that Jesus was a man of African heritage. I don't mince my words, Jesus existed, I don't doubt that. I want to know why it is that Jesus is still depicted as a white man of European heritage.
If not African, then at very least he had dark middle eastern features, much like those of Iraqis or Afgans. Why does white Europe and white America deny this? Would you be happy to buy a bible which depicts Jesus as a black man?
Why can you worship a black god, but not accept a black president? We are all the sons of god, according to some, so why does Jesus.... a non-white son of god.... have to be seen as white?
Discuss if you wish....
I classify it as "The pliability of people". That is, the human psyche can be manipulated easier than we realize or want to accept. It was determined hundreds of years ago that a child's mind could be fully programmed before the age of five with all the core beliefs, values, and mannerisms he will use for the rest of his life. Once indoctrinated it is hard to think otherwise. The image of a blond haired blue eyed Jesus is one of those indoctrinations.
Christianity is a very influential religion and one of the symbols of Christianity is the European Jesus. I often hear people say "it doesn't matter what color Jesus is" yet they would never accept anything other than a European Jesus (Michelangelo's uncle). For Europeans it is ok because they invented Christianity but it's psychologically subservient for other races and they don't realize it.
Subliminal control through early childhood indoctrination.
Thanks. This is exactly what I was saying. Glad to see someone that's honest!
In my opinion, this is the best answer I have been given. This is pretty much what I was thinking, communicated in such a way that I know I would find it extremely hard to express so concisely. That answers my question I believe, unless somebody can produce a good counter argument. I just don't believe that anybody could.... although I am open to it.
Programmed? Android lover, perhaps? How lame... Ha-ha!
My name is vera ,i saw your profile today and became intrested in you,i will also like to know you the more,and i want you to send an email to my email address so i can give you my picture for you to know whom i am.
Here is my email address(firstname.lastname@example.org).
I believe we can move from here!
I am waiting vera.(Remeber the distance or colour does not matter but love matters alot in life)
there was an interesting show on discoverychannel about what he would have looked like.
I saw that, very interesting but inconclusive. Many people were nailed to a cross in these times.
Because of prior stories that closely resemble the Jesus story I doubt he existed at all.
I can see how the story got started again though. Even the bone ignorant were starting to see the moral corruption in the OT.
The threatening insecure little psychopath of the bible (and quoran) lost it's appeal, My guess is they decided to renew an old story that worked in the past for flogging another god. The OT references this Jesus, as does the quoran.
there was a really neat show on the History channel today about 'banned books from the bible' like 'the gospel according to mary', etc.
who knew? i will check out your clip when i get a chance...
It really doesn't matter what color his skin was!
We are not this vehichle that carries us around.
But since he had several black skinned ancestors in his family tree, and he was middle eastern he most likely did not have blue eyes and light skin.
No, you are right, it doesn't matter what colour his skin was. Why, therefore, when I search google images for 'Jesus' am I presented with just 1 depiction of Jesus as a dark skinned man from the first 3 pages (63 pictures)?
That is a simple question really.... It just interests me... considering the vast number of Christians in Africa and parts of Asia. This image was clearly manipulated by the various churches at some point. Now that it is generally acknowledged that jesus is non-white, why has that image not changed?
I do not know. I would speculate that it is because it is the white person that buys most of these books that are printed by white people. All about marketing ???
I would think that an oriental publisher would print a diffrent picture ???
Just goes to show ...???
So, are you suggesting that a white christian would rather purchase religious text if it depicts a jesus which looks more closely like themselves? Despite the colour of his skin not mattering? That is a contradiction, surely?
Is 13.5% of the American population not African American? Do those people purchase the books featuring a white jesus?
So, the book printers sell an image of a white jesus, because the market for white christians is bigger than that for black christians?
I am no expert of anything. I was just speculating as to WHY.
If I were a publisher I would have a picture of a good looking olive skinned man with black curly hair.
I think scripture said that he wasn't that good looking??
But I'd show him as being extremly good looking. Is that wrong?
No, but then we live in a photoshopped society, if christians want to depict their jesus with a hollywood smile, a twinkle in his eye, and as somebody who uses hair straighteners, a beard trimmer and moisturiser then thats fine by me. I can sit here and think that they are stupid, their right to swallow it all.... my right to see through the simple minds. I like to think of jesus as a filthy smelly man, with tangled greasy hair, a straggly beard, lots of blackheads, cuts on his feet and bushy eyebrows.... which he undoubtedly was. In fact, Osama Bin Laden is probably a close comparison.... I can't see him sitting their filing his toenails and flossing his teeth... I guess that I just subscribe to logic.
Surely even in that age they had acne treatment!
Osama Bin seen lately?
He is probably holed up in a 5 star hotel somewhere paid for by the CIA. Didn't they train him? I would bet they would not like to see his memoirs published!
Probably sitting around in a marble clad lounge in Saudi Arabia surrounded by beautiful arab women with his brothers, the friends of George Bush, and using a British made helicopter to take him to a private hospital twice weekly for his kidney dialysis.... that would be my guess mate.
Not bad at all, it would not be "polite" to look for him there would it?
Of course it wouldn't be polite, it would push the price of oil imports up by several dollars a barrel
I guess that they will wait until western companies are pumping enough oil out of Iraq and Afghanistan before upsetting the Bin Laden's.
I think that if what he looked like was the biggest misrepresentation; the world would be a much better place.
What you have is blatant white supremacy, and even the black Christians support this white supremacy! What could black people be thinking?
Are you saying that I am a white supremist? Or that the church is guilty of white supremacy? If it is the former, then I guess that you have misunderstood my point. If it is the former, then you have very much hammered my point into the wood... because white supremacy is precisely what I feel the church is guilty of...
Not you! Of course I'm referring to the church.
Phew! Good.... You are quite right though.... the church, as always, seems to be centuries behind the rest of society. 2009 first black president of the United States.... 2309 first black pope? Maybe the Vatican City will increase the age of consent from 12 to 16 at some time during this millenium?
Yes it does "Just goes to show" that your Christ and religion is man-made!
Hi RebeccahELLE, sorry I was thinking of the one I saw last night which was a look at the cross and the shroud. I had not seen yours before, thanks.
hey, no problem. I saw it a while ago, and thought is was interesting. I have never understood why people would think the color of a persons skin means anything more that that's the color of their skin... skin is not who we are.
hey cosette, watching sense and sensibility...
It seems that no practising Christian is able to provide me with an answer to my question?
In fact, actually, they are very rarely able to give me an answer to any of my questions about their faith.... yet many are quick to condemn me for not having a faith
thanks for saying that. i thought i was alone in my 'being-ignoredness'
Its not like I make a habit of coming on here either, I was just a simple man with a simple query! I just notice a certain degree of prejudice within religion in general, but they don't seem to want to tackle it!
I could go on, and on, and on actually.... only 3 black men in The Vatican City..... 150 million catholics in Africa.... It all just feels so much like the wider political platform in Europe and North America.... Religion feels to me like politics. Spin, lies, corruption, scare tactics, marketing, public relations.... it just feels like a series of businesses....
Sorry, I can't remember whether you have a faith or not, but thats irrelevant anyway... This is about an apparent prejudice amongst the various factions...
Hope that you are ok Cosette, was going to email you as I saw you getting a bit upset on an old thread but I decided to leave that dead!
not anymore. i was raised Catholic though. i still love a lot of the Bible and religious art though.
oh that old thread haha well we won't go there....
i will email you if you want. if not, that's fine too. well i have easter tacos to make. some friends are coming over to watch 'the pacific' and eat tacos
I read a book several years ago called "Blood and the Grail" written by some BBC researchers. The same ones that tried to sue Dan Brown over his fictional use of their theme in the “Da Vinci Code”. They lost the case as I remember, but the story they discovered was very compelling as was their evidence to support it.
The gist of it was that Jesus did in fact exist and that the grail was his blood and not some cup. His relationship with Mary Magdalene was real and there was issue. After his alleged crucifixion he was brought down from the cross alive (which makes sense since the Romans were not in the habit of leaving you up there for only three days. You stayed up there until you fell off.)
In addition, Mary is wealthy and the entire prophecy thing was a political ploy to incite a popular revolt against the Romans and the Jewish priests. In short, he is alleged to be Egyptian, and an Isis Cultist and not at all Jewish.
I saw something wild about that once too...
A tv show...When Jesus was on the cross, and the Roman guard supposedly gave him vinegar to make him suffer, what he really gave him was Hysop...which was a plant that gave you the effect of being dead...it stopped your heart temporarily, but you were really still alive...kind of like the vodoo zombie thing they do with drugs or herbs....
That's how they took him down but he was still alive.
Also read from a famous American psychic...she was Nancy Reagan's psychic...converted the editor of Hustler magazine...can't think of her name though...dam.
Anyway, she said that Jesus wed Isis in a ceremony in the pyramid at Giza!
What the way he is always getting pissed? Thought that his tipple was cheap lager, think Jesus preferred Pinot Grigio...
The negro has been listening to so much BS from the white man for so long that they know that as long as they know; what diffrence does it make what the white man wants to think that Jesus looked like?
Sometimes just knowing is good enough.
Can't they compromise and choose a completely different colour? If they made him brilliant pink for example... with white polka dot.... there would be no further debate?
Or how about selling books with a "color in jesus yourself" picture? It could be supplied with a few different crayons.... and hey presto, the lucrative christian book market will incorporate the whole of the American population?
Ironically, as I am 48 years old, this debate is probably as old or older than I am. When I was 15 there was an artist who drew nothing but pictures of Jesus and his family and disciples, as he figured they would have looked, based on extensive research he had done in the 60's while in college. He entered art fairs, and everyone looked for the "black" artist who created these pictures. He was not black, himself. He was a Hebrew man who embraced both Judaism, and Christianity, as well as anthropology and evolution. His pictures were amazing, if not so great artistically. He said, it was more about the eyes, than the skin, but that he was sure, the skin colors and hair styles he chose were correct. If you looked into the eyes of his pictures, you would agree. It's about the eyes. They were absolutely amazing, and color had nothing to do with what the pictures would make you feel.
And yes, he was of African descent, absolutely, beyond a shadow of a doubt. Eden was in Africa, after all. We all came out of Africa, at some point or another in our heritage.
Why are we, as a society, so hung up on race? I don't care what color His skin was!
Me neither habee.... but that statement both condemns my thread in a way, but also supports my statement. You could say, why does ryankett have an issue with the depiction of jesus as a white man? whilst I am effectively asking.... why do white people have a problem with the depiction of jesus as an arab or black man?
It just intriques me... a lot. No motives in my thread, just cause for a genuine debate... I have an image of Jesus wearing Nike trainers and talking in a New York accent, and that is just wrong (although that would make a great comedy).
I don't see that as wrong, Ryan! I think everyone who thinks of Jesus pictures him differently, and I don't think He minds!
I wasn't trying to "diss" your thread - really. I've just been reading so much about race lately...sorry!
Thats cool... I'm not really accusing any particular group or faction of racial prejudice, rather observing that the habits of the small 'old world' have been continued in the big 'new world'.... that christianity, as a religion, has not fully adapted to the findings of science and research or to appreciate its multicultural base of believers....
I don't either, just that he came to teach us and died to get his message through. More than enough info for me, I wouldn't care if he was green and from another planet, or if he had gills and crawled out of the sea.
We do care about the color of jesus' skin, because we have been conditioned to view him as white. Any other picture makes no sense.
In effect, assuming he existed, he was an Arab. I don't mean literally, I just mean that it makes sense to call him that in today's parlance. If you really must you can call him a Sephardic Jew, but if you can tell the difference between your average Sephardic Jew and your average Arab man, then you are a better man (or woman) than me. (I don't literally mean he was a Sephardic Jew, as the Diaspora had not occurred at that time, but you get the idea, I am sure).
When you say we, you must only be talking about yourself, unless of course you are either a mind reader, connected to the cosmic consciousness, or royalty and use we to mean your royal family.
You do not speak for me, or anyone else who says color is of no importance, nor is race, creed or religion. The original post, was he a black man of African descent? Yes, most likely. Does it make a difference in my faith? No not one bit.
I don't really like the way that this thread has suddenly turned, because there was no motive in my post to incite or inflame, rather a genuine question. I am not being disrespectful to your faith or beliefs, I was just hoping for a debate about a subject which I have long considered.
Thankfully, some of it has been rather constructive and has made me think a bit harder about the topic. This is my first ever thread in the religious forum, I don't want to finish this thread feeling unwelcome. Frankly, I feel that my point is a valid one.
I know that you replied to somebody else, but my query was not "was jesus a man of African descent", it was much more "why is jesus always depicted as a white man". They are two entirely different questions. I worked out the answer to the first one about 12 years ago.
You shouldn't feel unwelcome. In fact yours is perhaps the most intelligent religion post that has started a thread that I have ever seen on Hubpages.
To give your question a serious answer, I think that Christianity has long been a part of a larger culture that assumed whites were superior to others. This culture stretches back at least to the Romans, I am sure. So, it is hardly surprising given that.
Ok sorry..... its 3am..... its me that has suddenly turned. Oh dear.
Almost 3am here.... and, I believe, almost 3am 'there'. I read an old school report today, it said "prone to moments of petulance when things dont go his way, but settles down quickly".
They say 'show me the boy at 7 and I will show you the man'.... That is very true.
Sorry I did misunderstand, I was responding to one who said "we" do care about his color, which I do not. Why was he depicted as white, no photographs, artists were white and commissioned by white religious people to paint a picture, so it is white. Is there anything I can do to change that, probably not. Should it be changed? Yes.
Perhaps we could just make him bright pink with blue spots or something like I said
Peace back to you.
I like green, then he could sing "it's not easy being green" with Kermit the frog and all would be right with the world. We might even make a major move toward green power, and green peace, LOL
How about the Jolly Green Giant? And Shrek? Can they get involved too? If so, its a deal, lets start lobbying for this radical change!
Oh dear, time for sleep I think!
i totally agree. all of that BS is soooo five minutes ago. i mean, who cares really. p.s. the tacos were yummy. i made homemade salsa from peppers in my garden. organic of course...
i remember seeing news footage of people from where Christ was born and thought 'why, those people aren't blonde and blue-eyed at all'.
and like many things, that was one of those things we "weren't supposed to ask about"...
He was Jewish and I'd assume that means a blend of Persian and Arab, whatever that color is if it matters.
...if it matters, exactly. Why is this question even being asked.
Who asked that question? I didn't see anybody asking that to be honest, I certainly didn't. The question more along the lines of "why do we still depict Jesus as a white man". The fact that he is non-white has already been ascertained. This is also a forum, about religion & beliefs, and I reserve the right to post in it until a member of the hubpages staff removes that right.
Is someone suggesting you don't have the right to post here. I am confused, truly
I think that there is a good chance that Jesus existed, but I don't think that there is any real proof that he did. However, the Bible stories tell us that he was born in the Middle East, so, if that is the case, then chances are that he would have the colouring of other people from the Middle East ~ not that colouring should really matter.
But, yes, many depictions of Jesus have him looking like a 'Westerner', or possibly like something mid way between 'Westerner' and 'Middle Easterner'. In Renaissance times, for example, it probably depended upon the artists and their models.
I am a white christian American. I will start by saying Jesus was Jewish, which most likely made his skin an olive tone. However, The Bible descibes Moses as having black skin, and in The Song of Solomon, Solomon also is descibed as having black skin. I in no way deny any racial heritage. But I question, Jesus teachings spoke specifically on a spiritual level and although He dealt mainly with the Jewish people while He lived, His message was OBVIOUSLY for ALL people. So, my question is, what does it matter what color his skin was?
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