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Why do many Christians believe God called Trump but not Obama?

  1. Misfit Chick profile image93
    Misfit Chickposted 2 weeks ago

    https://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13684458_f520.jpg
    This is a really good question for Christians... Why was Obama erroneously-labeled the anti-christ; while a man like Trump is considered to be 'called' and appointed by God?

    Ps 21:1 "The king's heart is in the hand of the Lord, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will."

    Romans 13:1 "Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God."

    Jn 19:11 "Jesus answered [Pontius Pilate],“You could have no power at all against Me unless it had been given you from above."

    Recently, religiously-conservative Christian mega-pastor, Paula White, an old Florida friend of Trump & currently a religious advisor to him (AND a woman who also had an 'inappropriate relationship' with fellow mega-pastor, Benny Hinn) - came out in a big way to defend Trump being raised up 'by the hand of God' in the style of Queen Esther - and how Christians, especially, should support him against unprecidented reactions NEVER before seen against a potus.

    Afterwards, Roland Martin, an established journalist with a master’s degree in Christian communications slammed back hard to help put things back into perspective for her. You can search for both videos on YouTube, Martin's push back is titled, 'Roland Martin To Paula White: Be A Prophetic Voice And Don't Just Be A Profitable Voice'

    Here are a few splashes from his remarks:

    "This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: I brought Israel up out of Egypt, and I delivered you from the power of Egypt and all the kingdoms that oppressed you. But, you have now rejected your God, who saved you out of all your disasters and calamities. And you have said, ‘No, appoint a king over us.’ So now, present yourselves before the Lord by your tribes and clans.’ That’s when the Prophet Samuel anointed Saul because the PEOPLE wanted a king.

    You have the audacity to ask how any man could withstand what Donald Trump has gone through… How about eight years of what Barak Obama went through when the same person you praise questioned his Christianity, questioned his faith and dared to present the birther movement, as somehow he was not a full American? That was an outright lie, but you stood with that man.

    The same man who said he would grab women by the vagina, the same man who said he would force himself upon women to kiss them when he wanted. The same man who chastised Senator John McCain who was a P.O.W. The same man who chastised Mexicans and called them rapists and criminals. The same man who has not shown at all, how to act like, sound like, or be a Christian.

    Here is the reality, Pastor Paula White… We are going to pray for this president because we have evil in the White House. We have somebody who wants to attack people of color, attack the poor, attack Muslims and break up families. You dare say no one else has come under this kind of attack, please explain to me why so many white evangelicals like yourself have been quiet...

    God called for the prophetic to stand up to question people in power and challenge them. Let me remind you of the Prophet Samuel who went to Saul and told him he was doing wrong and advised him that he had gone against the commandments of God. … And, the Prophet Nathan who went to David and told him he had sinned against God by laying with Bathsheba."

    So, the question is... Why are the candidates Conservatives vote for 'of God' while every other candidate is considered to be (literally) evil (like Hillary, she is also heavily-portrayed as 'evil', not just a 'bad politician')? Its a really good question; and those of us who are completely flabbergasted by the thinking of so many good, well-intentioned Christian people - would LOVE an explanation.

    Be careful how you respond... I am a former evangelical Christian & right-wing Conservative, reformed into a Moderate or Centrist mindset. I know my bible, as well as typical 'conservative' thinking surrounding it from decades back (check out my 1st spotlight hub if you doubt that, LoL!).

    1. Live to Learn profile image82
      Live to Learnposted 2 weeks ago in reply to this

      The way I see it is if a Christian votes for someone they are sent by God and if they don't vote for them they are the anti Christ. It's a simple either or thing. Your biblical quotes are all well and good but it's the decision made in the voting booth that makes the difference.

      1. Misfit Chick profile image93
        Misfit Chickposted 2 weeks ago in reply to this

        It is obvious that you have a serious dislike for me, LtL. I'm really not sure why you respond to any of my stuff. Your response is passive-aggressive. What does it mean when one Christian votes for a GOP candidate; while another one votes for a Dem? Which one is the antichrist?

        There was a whole hell of alot of 'evil' (and again, obviously erroneous) crap swirling around about Obama. I'm still waiting for a good explanation regarding why Obama was so unacceptible for Christian militants; but Trump has been deemed as being sent by your God...

        1. Live to Learn profile image82
          Live to Learnposted 2 weeks ago in reply to this

          I could spend a great deal of time attempting to determine how my response equates to disliking you or being passive aggressive. I'll pass.

          My point was that anyone with any desire to look at the question truthfully will admit that biblical quotes are easily used to back up any opinion. We have enough anecdotal evidence to easily see this. So, your quotes wouldn't do much to bolster your argument.

          Also, it can't be both ways. I realize Paul (is it?) makes some comment about our leaders are given to us by God but, that would mean Obama, as well as Trump, were given. There is no defense for anyone calling anyone an anti Christ or a gift from God.

          As to your 'my God' comment. This is from your point of view. I do notice a lot of times people will find attributes they perceive as unpleasant and assign them to God and other people they seek to demonize in their own minds. My God, would be your God and everyone else's. It's kind of an either or thing. There is or there isn't and if there is then we both fall into the category of creatures of creation. I don't have to subscribe to an immature belief simply because you desire it.

    2. Credence2 profile image87
      Credence2posted 2 weeks ago in reply to this

      There is nothing to respond to, like many conservatives, too many, the issue is race and ideology not Christian faith. I saw that in 2012 where they declared Romney the true Christian despite the fact that most of them considered Mormonism a cult. If they were really true to their beliefs, it is clear that Trump would have been cast out as a heathen. This is a man for whom the trait of reverence is the least applicable. It is pretty easy to see the Christian Right is just another bunch of 'good ole boys' and I have been to their churches and felt the resentment to the point that you could cut it with a knife.

      1. Misfit Chick profile image93
        Misfit Chickposted 2 weeks ago in reply to this

        You don't think the ideology of those types of Christians has anything at all to do with their 'faith'? There are so many versions of Christianity; and some people are seriously caught up in it like a cult. They are pretty much to Christianity as ISIS is to Islam. Dogmatic. Angry. Manipulated, etc.

        It sounds like you have only visited these churches a few times. No wonder you talk like you don't quite know what I mean. You should hear some of the sermons that are preached about the Constitution and the Founding Fathers. (Sarah Palin is a good indication - remember what she had to say about those things? She was laughed at because of historical inaccuracies.) You should hear the ridiculous sermons about how women are designed by God to be submissive to their husbands & fathers, etc. You should hear the sermons about the apocalypse (inciting fears of a 'one-world-government' - which is where their fear of a healthcare policy comes in). You should hear the sermons about mandatory tithes & offerings... and how 'helping other people thru government' is actually a literally EVIL thing to do.

        Good for you for missing out on all the uber-fun surrounding religious extremism, Credence. You're probably pretty normal; and I'm now wondering if that is not part of the problem in this country: people live in their own worlds (as they should); but they are completely unaware of the beliefs of the people around them - or how dangerous they can be.

        1. Credence2 profile image87
          Credence2posted 2 weeks ago in reply to this

          I adhere to the Christian faith and at least according to my interpretation which can disputed, I believe that nationalism has no place among true believers. Contrary to what you may believe I have been invited and have attended enough of these sorts of sermons. The message of the Bible is peace, not crusades like endless warfare. I know what you mean, but rightwing orthodoxy is a religion in itself. Just because these people say that they are Christian does not mean that they can employ a smorgasbord style picking morsels that suit them. Man's law is innately flawed, so putting the accomplishment of men on a pedestal in this setting is inappropriate. So, I don't want to hear about the Constitution and the Founding Fathers, but I am more interested in Jesus and the ransom sacrifice. I don't give Sarah Palin any credibility be it in the secular or spiritual realm..

          How have the pronouncements of the Christian Right proven to be consistent with scripture? They have not proven that to me, so their utterances are irrelevant. This is just my opinion and I never expect anybody to take it as gospel. The account of the Widow's mite shows that people can give what they can give. So, the idea of these million dollar preachers taking advantage to built their palatial mansions in the sky or the Pope sitting on a golden commode while his parishioners struggle to put money in the offering plate is BS. I am very well informed as to what is going on. Just because people say they are Christian, does not mean that they are. History is full of charlatans of this nature. This Christian Right is slapping a Christian label on their disgusting rightwing dogma, but you have to open the container to see what is beyond the label. No mistake about that.....

          My world is quite wide and all encompassing......

    3. Pollyannalana profile image77
      Pollyannalanaposted 2 weeks ago in reply to this

      God is a forgiving God. It doesn't matter what Trump used to do or even you, if you (or Trump) has Christ in your life now. You cannot name anything Trump has done you cannot double with the Clinton's. So there you go on that. He has let no American's in Benghazi die or sold 20% of our uranium. Those are very undoable aren't they? Maybe you could name some unforgiveable sins?
      Obama started out saying he was "Christian" which he then turned from if he ever was and became loyal and apparently a party to Islam. He is in no doubt an Islamic Muslim and since we know he was raised that way it should surprise no one. All his decisions and moves while president was as this person while trying to present himself as Christian. So do you believe him? Will you put him down as Christian?

      1. Misfit Chick profile image93
        Misfit Chickposted 13 days ago in reply to this

        I'm guessing that you either could not actually read what I've written in here - or, your brain is unable to process it. Unfortunately, this is a typical Christian-extremist response - and is yet another reason why this country is the divisive way it is.

        1. Pollyannalana profile image77
          Pollyannalanaposted 12 days ago in reply to this

          I am sure that the many Christians who voted for Trump did not necessarily think he was God sent but he was the best we had to choose from and that is still true. We do hope God will use him since the left is certainly anti-Christ, anti-American and totally pursuing the destruction of this country. We hope many of you will see through them but it is not looking too hopeful.  (Speaking of brain dead.) You talk like a Pharisee, knowing just enough to make you dangerous.

          1. Jean Bakula profile image93
            Jean Bakulaposted 12 days ago in reply to this

            I resent being called "brain dead" and could report you for that insult if you were worth my time. That was a very non Christian thing to do. One of the usual hypocrites like Jesus had to kick out of the temple.

            1. Pollyannalana profile image77
              Pollyannalanaposted 11 days ago in reply to this

              Fine by me, allow God to be our judge, for He certainly will be and I have no fear. (Speaking of brain dead was from a comment made by someone else above, sorry you too it personally.) The bible gives instruction for thinking and not for or by ourselves. It teaches the right spirits to trust and our thinking comes from that and truth taught in the bible. The Holy Spirit visits every man and calls him to salvation. Not one is left out. What God gives is free choice. Between good and evil. Everyone will be accountable for that choice (it is the unforgivable sin. Not choosing Jesus' blood and death for your salvation.) and if you have not guessed from the upheaval in all the world, time is short. Hope to see you on the other side.  I really do.

              1. Randy Godwin profile image93
                Randy Godwinposted 11 days ago in reply to this

                I'll wager you don't even know where the Bible came from, like most self-proclaimed Xtians.

                1. Jean Bakula profile image93
                  Jean Bakulaposted 11 days ago in reply to this

                  Thanks Randy,
                  I study all religions and have read every word of the Christian Bible as a study with a friend I have who is a Jehovah's Witness (long story). God goes on for 50 page rants and sounds crazier than a petulant child, mostly about his powers to destroy all of us. I'll stick with being a Pagan. Organized religion has caused more wars and suffering than anything. It was only in the last thousands of years people were not Pagan, and Constantine had to add Pagan customs in when he wanted to get everyone over to Christian beliefs.

                  I wish everyone well. These forums get everyone too emotionally involved, we waste our time arguing with people who are probably lovely people, we all just have different ideas.

                  1. Pollyannalana profile image77
                    Pollyannalanaposted 8 days ago in reply to this

                    You apparently did not read the New Testament. There is no hate or racism there. No Jew nor Gentile. Just love from the Son of God Who gave all for anyone who will accept it.  I just cannot imagine why anyone would say no to an eternity of things the human mind just cannot imagine.
                    But that is everyone's individual choice.

      2. Jean Bakula profile image93
        Jean Bakulaposted 13 days ago in reply to this

        President Obama was always a Christian. Where do you find these lies? When did he "turn?"The family used to attend a variety of Christian churches while in Washington, but they felt that when they walked in before a service, they were disrupting it.They attended a small chapel at Camp David. I'm so tired of so called Christians filled with hatred against any other religion, or any other type of Christianity too. Jesus would surely weep after reading the crap from a hypocrite like you.

        Obama lived mostly in Hawaii, and finally met his relatives from the other side of the family for the first time, when he visited Indonesia as President on a vacation with Michele, Sasha and Malia. Why does he have to prove anything about his faith to you anyway? God said, When thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and pray to your Father, which is in secret." But you know what's in everybody's hearts?

        1. Pollyannalana profile image77
          Pollyannalanaposted 12 days ago in reply to this

          You may want to pay better attention. Everyone is not who they claim they are. Actions are louder than words but words can tell who we are. https://youtu.be/v0gZVcaFmBQ

          1. Jean Bakula profile image93
            Jean Bakulaposted 12 days ago in reply to this

            I went to the link, and just the fact it's called "Obama's War on Christianity" tells me that it's the hoax Bill O'Reilly made up to get ratings. They are so far to the Christian right they want to take America back to Puritan times. It's the only audience Fox has. Doesn't the Bible tell you to think for yourself?

            1. Randy Godwin profile image93
              Randy Godwinposted 12 days ago in reply to this

              The Bible does, but the preachers don't like it when they aren't needed to "properly interpret" the words. tongue

              1. wilderness profile image95
                wildernessposted 12 days ago in reply to this

                All too true.  And the people don't like it when the preachers interpretation doesn't match what they want to do!

        2. The0NatureBoy profile image74
          The0NatureBoyposted 2 days ago in reply to this

          Jean Bakula,
          You asked "Why does he have to prove anything about his faith to you anyway?" The end of Article 6.3 of the Constitution say "no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States" therefore It has nothing to do with it.

          You must understand all of today's organized forms of teaching people, religions included, are designed to deceive people and make then succumb to the system in charge. Almost everything done is this nation is done to confuse man is one reason the Bible calls her "MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT,..".

          1. Randy Godwin profile image93
            Randy Godwinposted 2 days ago in reply to this

            The Bible is simply an ancient novel with many acts of plagiarism from other religions. Jesus was based on the Egyptian god Horus who was born of a virgin, was the son of a god, was killed and resurrected after a few days.  The Noah's Ark tale was stolen from the Epic of Gilgamesh which predated the Bible by hundreds of years. Why would the Xtian god have to steal material for his book of truths?

            1. Jean Bakula profile image93
              Jean Bakulaposted 2 days ago in reply to this

              HI Randy and Nature Boy,
              I was agreeing that it's all nonsense. People twist it to their own needs.

              1. Randy Godwin profile image93
                Randy Godwinposted 2 days ago in reply to this

                Jean, my reply was to NB. I understood your comments and agree with them as well. smile

            2. The0NatureBoy profile image74
              The0NatureBoyposted 38 hours ago in reply to this

              Randy,
              Once one has come to comprehend life they will find many things which seemingly has no actual truth associated with it to be metaphors, allegories, parables and symbol-types I call MAPS, as many scriptures are. Some examples are the following stories and songs that reveals spiritual truths. However, it isn't for everyone to be able to realize them, only about 10% of the earth's population.

              Goldilocks and the Three Bears
              The Three Little Pigs
              Someday We'll Be Together
              The Thrill Is Gone
              Jack and Jill Went Up the Hill

              1. Randy Godwin profile image93
                Randy Godwinposted 15 hours ago in reply to this

                Yeah right, if you're an example of an enlightened Xtian then I wish to stay far, far, away from such a book of myths. And yes, I've read the old novel. smile

                1. The0NatureBoy profile image74
                  The0NatureBoyposted 14 hours ago in reply to this

                  This is not your time to become enlightened so "Be At Peace" with where you are, I am concerning both you and me.

                  Peace

                  1. Misfit Chick profile image93
                    Misfit Chickposted 6 hours ago in reply to this

                    Nature Boy, you are pretty much someone who gives enlightened people a bad name, LoL! Your current spiritual beliefs are antiquated and in serious need of an update. I've told you that before. And since you've got spirituality screwed up, you've got the bible and the constitution screwed up, as well. Its funny how twisted & interconnected those three things can get in people's minds, ha!

                    This person will update you about what is going on with karma now (after you get through the LoA stuff). Its a good place for you to start, since you obviously can't make it through my 1st spotlight hub:
                    https://youtu.be/V6xCjY39_t0

                  2. Randy Godwin profile image93
                    Randy Godwinposted 5 hours ago in reply to this

                    You don't know when or where my "enlightened state will come, NB. It's people like you, who pretend to know the unknown, giving Xtians a bad name. Who are you to tell me it "isn't my time" to be enlightened? Seriously, who gave you your "gift of knowing"?  roll

    4. The0NatureBoy profile image74
      The0NatureBoyposted 13 days ago in reply to this

      MC,
      As I look over your opening writings what I find is ...

      God appointed Saul because of the hardening of the heart of the people who wanted a man to represent god to them. All U.S. presidents, as you gave scripture to show are for reversing from man's rule back to god direct rule over "spiritual" Israel. Saul represented turning from what the Constitution (Revelation 12's Rod of Iron for the man-child to rule by) intended this nation to be since Christianity is built on the foundation of the Catholic Church's "White Supremacy" mentality [see https://hubpages.com/education/What-Is- … ristianity and https://hubpages.com/religion-philosoph … e-Of-Jesus back to back] to have a "woman of color" (all civilized humans beings are) among the "colorless woman" rulers of the nation can not be tolerated. Saul was of either Joseph or Benjamin of the "fair" sons of Jacob.

      Accordingly, The Man-Child who is to rule represents David of the tribe of Judah (of the 10 sons of color by Jacob and prophet like unto Moses) as all prophecy foretells the Christ to be. Thus, the "fair" Catholic Church's Christianity could not have a man of color ruling before the "Man-Child" takes the reigns and bring world peace. That is why Trump is "blonde haired and blue eyed", he is the fulfillment of Catholicism's "White Supremacy" as, if my understanding is correct, there were never one before him. And all of that is the doings of what we call God (Isaiah 45:7) reversing what woman have done through all the years of civilization with is about to end.

      1. Misfit Chick profile image93
        Misfit Chickposted 13 days ago in reply to this

        Actually, civilization isn't about to end - not because of Trump, global warning or anyone/anything else. I've advised you to update your spiritual beliefs before, Nature Boy. Your perspective is as bad as any Christian militant: spreading fear & dogma. Its really uncool, especially for someone who considers themselves to be 'enlightened'. You're still in the dark ages.

        1. The0NatureBoy profile image74
          The0NatureBoyposted 2 days ago in reply to this

          MC.
          Civilization is about to end because it's time has come just like the sunset of a day ends the mornings. So it is with civilization - there are 2, this material one a n a spiritual one Revelation proclaims - this one just end as prophesied, is followed by 7000 years of repopulating of earth, the evening/spiritual civilization comes and goes before the Genesis  transition to the "Garden East In Eden's" story manifests. Genesis 1:14 tells us that.

          1. Misfit Chick profile image93
            Misfit Chickposted 5 hours ago in reply to this

            Nope. You're just another clogged cog in the machine, NB.

            Here is a good video of Earth's BRIGHT future by Abraham & Esther:
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fPXiOVFW84

            And just for fun, this one is about the 2016 potus election on Trump & Hillary. Can you believe that the 'Source of All' loves BOTH The Donald AND Hillary? EQUALLY. Who coulda guessed THAT?! LoL! (Abraham is a 'soul collective of infinite intelligence' or 'another PART of Source, as we all are.)
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rp3z5yUbiCw

            Here is one more video on WHY Source/God loves BOTH 'good' & 'bad' people, equally AND unconditionally. Start from around 5:12 to the end. This message is a little hard for us humans to swallow, at times - but dang its good! Most people are completely clueless as to how incredibly important our EMOTIONS (and imaginations) actually are.
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIshpwDlrmI

  2. Paul Wingert profile image78
    Paul Wingertposted 2 weeks ago

    We're taking about a group of people that can't distinguish fact from fiction,

  3. Kathleen Cochran profile image85
    Kathleen Cochranposted 2 weeks ago

    White evangelicals will vote for any Republican who is anti-abortion and they think will protect their investments - period - end of sentence.  It has nothing to do with faith or God or anything else.  I know.  I'm surrounded by them.

    The two recent most Christ-like presidents we've had, President Carter and President Obama, evangelicals chewed them up and spit them out.  I'm one of them and they break my heart.

    1. Jean Bakula profile image93
      Jean Bakulaposted 2 weeks ago in reply to this

      +1

    2. Live to Learn profile image82
      Live to Learnposted 2 weeks ago in reply to this

      This pretty much hits the nail on the head. It's very sad. I've attempted to discuss  this with some and many will agree on some points but it doesn't change their point of view one iota.

    3. Misfit Chick profile image93
      Misfit Chickposted 2 weeks ago in reply to this

      No one in here believes that there are a couple different types of Christian? There are actually Many who vote Dem or consider themselves to be moderates - and who vote 'pro-choice'. As I said above to Credence - that seems to be part of the problem. Both Christians &a non-Christians lump them together into the same right-wing category - and doing that makes divisions seem a lot bigger than they really are cuz extremists are the loud ones. There ARE moderate & liberal Christians BOTH. Moderate Christians need to start speaking out against extremist who are out voicing them. It's the same with Islam: non-extremists need to outvoice extremists who do not speak for them.

      1. Misfit Chick profile image93
        Misfit Chickposted 2 weeks ago in reply to this

        This pretty much spotlights my point. When moderate-thinking Christians DO speak out - look what happens to them: piles of sh*t from extremists. If you read this article, you will note that he says that not everyone in the church felt the same way. But, the 'loud' ones are the ones who usually win.

        Robert E. Lee's descendant resigns as pastor after VMAs backlash
        http://ew.com/music/2017/09/05/robert-e … -backlash/

        If Christians would come up against their extremist peers, themselves - their voice would start to be heard more - instead of being drowned out like this.

        Additionally, most black Christian churches don't think like white ones (of course, some are mixed - I'm talking about the ones that have a larger majority of one over the other). So, when black ministers have something to say - its just a bunch of whining & complaining (cuz you don't hear nearly as much extremist talk). Few listen. (Unless, of course, the black minister/spokesperson/politician, whatever - happens to also somehow be GOP. Then, they get highlighted as, "See, black people REALLY think this way..."

        When, most of them don't. I would consider Credence to be a typically-thinking black man regarding the Christian faith (and probably most other things, even political) as he stated above. (I think I'm right about that, LoL!)

        Its hard to see the difference between the two types of Christians. Those of us who have survived really freakin UGLY childhoods due to Christian religious extremists are well-aware that there is a glaring divide among them that NONE of them want to talk about to each other. In my opinion, it is basically a whole lot of abuse & bullying going on (in so damn MANY ways), while good 'moderate' (WHITE!) Christian people turn a blind eye.

        Here are some moderate Christian sites. There are lots more, do a search:

        http://www.wesleywildman.com/?page_id=315 - directly addresses the very large group of moderate Christians, especially in the United States.

        http://politicallymoderatechristian.com/

        http://www.patheos.com/blogs/leavingfun … the-enemy/ First sentence: I want to make something very clear: This blog does not exist to criticise Christianity at large. It is only fundamentalism and extremism I want to stop.

        Moderates need to start leading the conversations that intertwine with Christian ideals - not Christian extremists, militants or cultists. I hope you're all starting to see that there IS a significant divide.

        1. Misfit Chick profile image93
          Misfit Chickposted 2 weeks ago in reply to this

          I'd also like to point out that Roland Martin is a black journalist. You don't see Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell or Franklin Graham Jr jumping into this boiling pot. But, you also don't see as big of a deal coming from it, probably because he IS black. I mean, WHAT Trump supporter is going to take what he has to say, seriously?

          If Frankie came out with an admonishment against all this 'free hate speech' - you can BET that it would make an impact among them.

          I'm just sorry I don't have a freakin microphone that broadcasts to millions. I need one, LoL!

    4. PrettyPanther profile image85
      PrettyPantherposted 2 weeks ago in reply to this

      This is spot on.  I watched a couple of my Christian friends twist themselves in knots praying for guidance about who to vote for, only to have a fevered epiphany that Trump was sent by God to do battle with the evil liberals who kill babies.

      Trump doesn't give a rat's patootie about unborn babies.

      1. Misfit Chick profile image93
        Misfit Chickposted 13 days ago in reply to this

        Again, this seems to be the main reason why we can't move this conversation forward: there ARE moderate Christians who should be speaking out. When we lump every Christian together, the result is America today.

  4. cheaptrick profile image74
    cheaptrickposted 10 days ago

    ...and then there's the dyslexic atheist who goes around telling people "There Is No Dog!"...while the Christians cry "Wolf Wolf!"...

  5. Paul Wingert profile image78
    Paul Wingertposted 8 days ago

    Ever notice that God only talks to lunatics and con artists?

    1. Pollyannalana profile image77
      Pollyannalanaposted 3 days ago in reply to this

      He's been talking to you? He talks to most of us through the Bible, His word. It hasn't been proven wrong yet.

      1. wilderness profile image95
        wildernessposted 3 days ago in reply to this

        Hmmm.  More importantly, it hasn't been proven right, either.

        1. Live to Learn profile image82
          Live to Learnposted 3 days ago in reply to this

          That is stumbling into dangerous territory.

          1. wilderness profile image95
            wildernessposted 3 days ago in reply to this

            *shrug* Make claims insinuating that belief is equal to fact and I'll generally reverse the comment, under the assumption that if you can do it, so can I. 

            There is also the matter of being proven wrong; if one foregoes "creative" interpretation it isn't hard to show that scripture is false to fact right from the beginning.

            1. Live to Learn profile image82
              Live to Learnposted 3 days ago in reply to this

              I don't know about creative interpretation. I guess you'd have to give me examples.

              1. wilderness profile image95
                wildernessposted 3 days ago in reply to this

                A day of creation was an unknown amount of time.  Light appeared before stars, light created out of nothing.  Birds appeared before reptiles or other land animals.  Woman made from a rib, man from dust.  5,000 year old earth.

                All explained with very creative interpretation.

                1. Live to Learn profile image82
                  Live to Learnposted 3 days ago in reply to this

                  I think it is easy to forget just how wild and backward the Israelites were when they came out of Egypt.  Think about it if it were true. Even if Moses had been well educated in the court of Pharoah I can't imagine the daunting task of leading and controlling them. Think about it. 600,000 able bodied men. If the average guy had 2-3 wives, each wife bore 2-3 children and then there were the older people we might be looking at millions. If it is true.

                  If it is true, tradition says Moses wrote the Pentateuch.  Now, what would be more plausible; given that you are guiding millions of unwashed and uneducated people around in the desert? You'd attempt to write a scientific account of the universe when, obviously even if there were a deity guiding you in the writing you still didn't have understanding enough to grasp that scientific account or, that unwashed and uneducated mass would need something more relevant to guide them through the coming years of learning how to even try to act in a civilized manner?

                  Sorry. The account isn't overly far fetched, to me, when you take into account the original audience.

                  1. wilderness profile image95
                    wildernessposted 15 hours ago in reply to this

                    Well, of course.  That's kind of the point; accuracy and truth were not only not available when it was written, it wasn't likely to be a part of why it was written.  That remains as an effort to maintain control of a large number of "unwashed and uneducated" peoples; peoples that demanded answers when there weren't any.  So answers were created anyway; answers that fit with what the belief of the time was, but not necessarily with truth.

  6. Gail Meyers profile image67
    Gail Meyersposted 15 hours ago

    The Constitution, sovereignty....

 
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