Since you do not believe in a "God", how do you explain your inborn urge to create (write/poetry/art, etc.)?
Or drink, smoke, or drive 5 miles over the speed limits.
How does wanting write prove there is a god?
I have found that your equating religion and it's "god", with art or writing or poetry, in bad taste.
Writing, art and poetry, all come from the imagination, which is formed by one's collective knowledge about life and experience.
God gave us all the gift of imagination. God fought for us all, its sad that this is going on.
While I agree a person's creative abilities can be inspired by experience, God ulimately gave that person or people the Ability to express their creativity. The ability to express one's creativiy is an equal and natural right.
You should read Alfred Russell Wallace's work on evolution and the human mind and other attributes unexplainable through evolution.
I think you would find it very interesting.
They will find there way to God, hopefully. In their own way. Christians do not push God on the non believers. Just demonstrate random act of kindness philosophy. It is also recommended for the non believer to go to church with an open mind. And, experience a true feeling of Christian peace in your heart. It feels great.
Smiles to all
Why do you assume God is the source of all creativity? When you explain that I will feel like I have something to explain.
What does the urge to write have to do with religion? I'd love to know
I thought there is a sub category in the forums for stuff like these?
I believe in God and I believe my wanting to believe is based on something deeper than even my wanting to create art or poetry.
Buried somewhere in the intelligence that evolution has given us is the urge to create, whether it be a bison on a cave wall or a new concept that might indicate how the universe formed. The urge to create is one of the "outlets" of intelligence.
On the flip side, why in the world did God give us this urge? Do you think He views with pleasure the bison on the cave wall as a magnificent art form from his little pets? Or does He laugh with cruel glee as we try to understand His creation?
Evolution in no way explains those qualities of man such as Phylosophy, Art, reflection and contemplation, etc. To say oh somewhere in there evolution did this... is absurd.
You, then, believe that philosophy, art, etc are not a part of intelligence? That they are not intertwined beyond separation?
It seems to me that the more intelligent an animal generally is, the more creative it becomes. Chimpanzees make and use tools, for instance. Of course the "higher" or "more difficult" the creativity, such as art or philosophy the more intelligence is needed, limiting it to only one species. On the other hand, the "dumber" the animal the less chance of being truly creative as opposed to instinctive actions.
Do you not think that instructive cave drawings are related to survival? The creation of language didn't help a species survive? Of course, both did, and both came about as a result of increased intelligence, which was brought about by evolution. Look a little deeper than a knee jerk reaction.
No, it really isn't. Creativity is adaptive.
I believe some of us worship the creation more than the creator (including myself at times). Is it not obvious that this whole thing called life did not just happen? Sorry if I offend anyone with my questions. I do not intend to. Just wondering.
Any statement inferring the existence of God is enough to get them going on you elayne.
Don't apologize for it... you have a right to ask any ? you want.
If they don't want to answer, they don't have to.
God is more than a creation, it is the CREATOR of all life. He made our beautiful world,. He and his son fought for our lives. I for one believe in him and son and the bible. Which was written by
ordained ministers/priests. They knew what they were doing. And, proud they wrote it.
Ask yourself then, why do the stars shine or why does anything exist. To give Him glory, that is why.
Well no answer from the OP. Oh well. So far as I can see and going along the lines of what wilderness just posted - say creating anything is a God thing, we were gifted creativity. Then it works on the flip side too.
Not all things are created equally or for the right reasons. If so, things are a little skewed somewhere. Creating weapons of mass destruction can hardly be considered as bringing peace and harmony to the world
No, but WMD's did come from the imagination, that many believe "god" gave people. If that were so, then it could lead one to believe that "god" intended for humankind to destroy themselves.
God created Adam in his image. God created our world. And, everything in it.
The tree that Adam and Eve ate from was called the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil. They were given a choice and failed, we inherited their nature.
I know you don't agree with me, Cagil. But that is how I believe, it is.
You cannot even prove Adam and Eve actually existed. Neither can humanity. So, want to try again?
You're right, I cannot prove anything. That's why it is called faith. I believe what the Bible teaches. It has nothing to do with empirical evidence. It has everything to do with my heart, and having faith.
I realize that.
But, what you fail to realize is that "faith", on a human level, is about putting it into yourself, mastering your own thoughts and actions, so you can live an above average form of life. It has nothing to do with any form of higher power or being of any kind.
If you believed what the bible teaches, then you would have walked in the footsteps of those who wrote the scripture and found yourself not believing in 'god'.
The fact that Jesus' work was twisted to mean something it did not, is where religion destroyed his work.
But, since we are in the Hubber's Hangout. I'll stop there.
I don't think God created these weapons. He gives us free will. Yes there is evil in the world, but that is because we are given a choice. The original creation was a paradise, where everything was good. Then sin came, there you have your weapons of mass destruction.
Ah ok. So when a poem is written, a charming story published, a painter sits with brush twixt his fingers, creating a masterpiece - it's all glory to God?
But when a weapon is created (key word: create) it's free will?
SIN is a religious term. It is not used in any true understanding of life.
Nicely said. Man created weapons. God made man in his own, thats what started the human population. Eve unfortunately ate from the
apple when she was not supposed to. Satan temped her and she fell
for it. I for one forgive her.
Well Cags I've never actually said I do or don't believe. However, that not being the point ... I do like to see fair play.
If the Almighty is the bestower of creativity, the creator of all things then ... you know ... we can't start getting into pedantics.
Creating is as creating does - there is only one (real) definition. Good creating/bad creating - both are either free will or Gods fault.
This is a dead horse my friend. We both knew that from the start *bump*
I guess it comes down to what one believes.
It boils down to "how" you create your belief in the first place. Not so much what you believe, but 'how' you reached the belief that is important.
If you're basing a belief on something that is not true, and YOU do not know it is not true, then it doesn't make it true. It only shows your lack of knowledge about the subject matter.
For my part I'm happy to hear you've got faith. I'm sure it gives you strength and hope in your life.
My problem with threads such as this is that whenever a part of who and what we are is a positive, it's because God made it so. When it's negative - it's free will.
Now, we can argue all day (or not) about religion. But we can't argue with logic. Let's keep things simple and not complicate them with flowery words, quotes and indignation.
If God blessed humanity with the gift of creativity - fine. But that's 100% - no discounting the bits we don't like.
I agree, lets not argue over religion, that is a personal and individual matter. As to logic, you do have a point. People do not always produce good things. Weapons of mass destruction is an excellent example. Based on logic, good and bad things are produced. On the other hand, do you wonder what drives people to create good or bad things.
No, not really. There is nothing to wonder at. Back to logic ... it's called choice. Which others like to call free will. One and the same.
I know I've made bad choices. I blame no one. Not God/religion/circumstance. I'm responsible. Same as when I make a good choice.
My view may seem stark, or lacking imagination. But that's probably what makes me one of the happiest individuals you'll ever bump into, virtually or otherwise.
Or maybe it's God
I'm glad you are happy, in today's world it's hard to be. I don't think you lack imagination, you are an excellent writer and very intelligent.
Now there's a civil reply if ever I saw one. Compliment noted and graciously received - I thankyou
Now I'm going to look for a home, then give in to the urge to sleep - wherever you are, enjoy your day/evening
Creation is not by accident. Good or bad, doesn't matter.
Discovery is not on purpose. Expected or unexpected, doesn't matter.
free will, free choice, free beer?, what does any of it have to do with god????
Its our imagination that generates the urge to create poetry, art, writing & concepts like God ...
i don't know about that, our imagination is a manifestation caused by our brain. but our brain evolved from our environment. The history of evolution is contained in the brain. you can actually anatomically see the progression of evolutionary development within it, so it is generating ideas in the exact way nature is generating lifeforms. it does it in sets of tree-like branching out (familiar with mind-mapping?)
http://www.novamind.com/connect/nm_docu … 1520956629
I say that we came up with the word G-d, but the concept of a continuous source of creation exists outside of us, that is why we are churning up those ideas. we sense a higher order that is very similar to our own out there.
and to be precise, the established theory for art writing and poetry is it is an evolutionary by-product of Mating.
These things developed to increase chances of getting a mate.
where did we get our imagination - from a big bang?
i think (though i hate to sound like a broken record) that human consciousness is a microcosm of ever increasing scales of consciousness. I think the universe is conscious. It is a friggin' brain of something so large lets not even talk about it.
But does the conscious universe care about each person in this minute part of the cosmos? NO. We are part of its mechanism just like our the contents of our neurons are part of our mechanism.
We however embody the same creative nature of this consciousness within us and can draw from the repeating patterns of creative power a similar albiet scaled down ability to create realities.
Fractal geometry shows that everything in nature defined as chaos is made of scaled down versions of itself that increases infinitely towards larger and larger scales...but they are the same shape, same patterns. like the hair patterns on your whorl mirror that of weather patterns and that of the shape of galaxies.
If its in math, its out there.
In it's in your head, its happened before.
So in this way, in my view the truth is somewhere in the middle.
There is no god in a classical sense but then there is a macroscopic mind that is infinitely more complex but similar to our own out there, and we are within it and it is within us.
our math can fathom it.
the universe is its physical nature just as our bodies are the physical tentacles of our minds.
We all have imaginations and use them to create things. Some people simply allow their imaginations to rule their worldview, despite being quite wrong about it.
"Imagination is better than knowledge"-Albert Einstein
That would number 36 of the Woo-woo Credo:
"Quote Einstein, and do so often. Quote things he said if possible, but Einstein has been dead for ages now and so it's permissible to bring him up to date. Change the odd word here and there to make it clear that Einstein would have supported your argument if only he knew what you know. Act as if any arbitrary Einstein quote supports your position."
I agree with Einstein - knowledge can be depressing - imagination is hopeful.
and yet some don't even have enough. so not enough knowledge, even less imagination....enthropy.
for everyone who doesn't believe or does believe,
If there is no greater being that has created anything, then where did everything come from?
sure you have the big bang theory and theory of evolution, however, this is scientology, correct?
and in scientology, is it not a fact that you can NOT create somethign from nothing?
so for people to say they believe in evolution, but to not believe that something sometime created it, is to disprove the original statement they made, thus proving that their opinion is not based on facts, but rather opinion, and not that that is wrong, but how can you base your existence on simple guesses?
I believe in a higher being for the same fact I don't believe in scientology,
to create something, you need a starting point, there are none in the theory of evolution/big bang/science
give me a reason to believe why every single particle thats ever existed came from one organism changing, awesome, but tell me that the original organism came out of non existent space, nah
But - surely that is exactly what you believe?
It just requires a majikal super being to do it. LOLOLOLOLOL
Yes - science is scary. Sorry you do not understand it. I hope the majikal super being answer makes you feel better.
God created earth, us. Weither non-believers believes that or not it is the truth. God fought for our soul. God loves us. When make sin/mistakes, all is required is admit to the mistakes and do damage control. And, move on. Also, forgiving yourself for the errors is also important. No matter the size of the mistakes. As long as you clean it up. Also, using common sense to prevent errors from happening is also important. Think before you act, speak,.
err that are many books about how that happened.
I like how you think Cayden. Just doesn't seem practical or possible for us all to just come from nothing.
Ignorance (lack of knowledge, NOT the insult) can be astounding. Let my correct some of your comments:
1. To believe something is not to know it. There is a difference. To know requires factual evidence. To believe something requires only imagination.
2. Scientology is a religion found by L Ron Hubbard. It has nothing to do with science or fact.
3. Nowhere does physics demand that something was there before the big bang, anymore than religion demands that something created God.
4. The statement "I believe in a higher being for the same fact I don't believe in scientology" makes no sense; it states you are ignorant of higher physics and therefore you believe in God. As a logical conundrum your conclusion has no connection to the premise.
5. To indicate you need a starting point for the big bang is false - it is only your own lack of training coupled with a need to "prove" God. Again, you do not seem to have a need for the beginning of God, but won't make the same kind of statement that God is therefore impossible.
In order to attempt a debate using logic and facts, one must understand at least the basics of both or the inevitable result is the GIGO principle - garbage in, garbage out. If you wish to understand or discuss the concept of the big bang or evolution, I suggest you study the matter, and not from other people that share your own preconceived ideas and will only spout nonsense designed to "prove" those ideas. Rather read scientists that DO believe the big bang occured, examine their data and try to understand WHY they think as they do.
"The uncreative mind can spot the wrong answer, but
it takes a creative mind to spot the wrong question."
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