Some people here in the forums have discussed the existence of God, stating that they have seen no proof, while others have proclaimed there is proof all around. If you do not search your heart, mind and soul, then no proof can be shown. If you believe you have no soul to begin with, then YOU are LOST.
Some that say that there is no soul have the fortitude as though theirs is mightier than the mightiest Oak tree.
Searching... searching... still searching...
Nope, just a heart and mind, no gods and no soul. Sorry.
sure about that mind thing huh? I wouldn't apologize to that cretin. Ain't his problem you have no soul.
The belief in God is a gift. Nobody can change the way you perceive things around you. Lacking this gift is the only way how people, who are not stupid (or having other problems), can think illogically. These people are able to look at all the beauty of the nature, feel the perfect system around them (while not having a clue how the heck could something so perfect be created) and when being asked if they believe in God they say NO and are even happy and satisfied with their answer.
Actually - the belief in god is a delusion bought on by a complete lack of imagination and fear. These people who believe in Invisible Super Beings and not stupid exactly - they just cannot bear to not know something and rather than do any work to answer the questions - take the easy answer - God dunnit.
Sadly - this also seems to come with a condescending attitude that causes wars and ill will wherever they express it. They are even happy and satisfied with this meaningless answer - despite the cognitive dissonance and constant warfare caused by it.
I just wanted to keep it short because discussions like these don't have a positive or changing impact anyway.
You said "they do anything rather than do any work to answer the questions". I've always loved physics, read everything that's got something to do with technology and the nature and trust me I have a lot lot more knowledge in these areas than anybody else here. And I still say that the biggest fools are people who spend their whole lives trying to figure out things. I always lough when I see some huge biggest experts saying things like "Just make sure you eat a lot of THIS because there's a lot of Vitamin D, then you ALSO have to eat a lot of THAT because there's THIS". And a few years later - "OK we have found that you can't eat a lot of this because there's THIS increasing in your body, but you know what? You can...etc. Now, I do love development, but I'm just pointing out their simplicity. The dumbest monkey in the jungle knows that if it eats this banana, this leaf and that insect then he's OK. The nature is perfect. If we ate everything that is meant for us like vegetables, fruits ..blah blah. and in balance then we would be healthier. The only thing that makes things go out of balance is humans that are influenced by ...(and now it's starting to be spiritual, stop reading ) positive and negative energies (call it whatever u like). There's good and there's bad. People are the only creatures that can hurt the nature and make it go the bad way. And it's not because we are most intelligent. If monkeys wanted, you would be very surprised what they could do. Our brains are OK, it is our souls that can be and are tempted by evil. And it is the evil that makes people look less intelligent than monkeys and have them always trying to find out things like what is healthy and what's not and blah blah. People will always be full of doubts even about the most elementary things thinking how logical and intelligent they are.
And the wars you're talking about just confirm all that I was just saying.
Is that somewhere in the Bible or the Quran or some other holy book, or is that your personal opinion?
When I look out my window, I perceive the world as being flat. Does the evidence of the world being round not change that perception?
I suspect that your claim "not having a clue how the heck could something so perfect be created" is based on your own knowledge and understanding of the world around you, and not others who do have a clue?
I am curious as to what proof, (short of God shaking hands with you) would you require as proof?
no proof required for religious god..
was there jesus..probably yes..was he god?..god knows..
was there krishna..probably yes..was he god?..god knows..
depending on belief one perceives..how can one give proof on that?..religious books have been proven wrong number of times..at same time many things of religious books are right too..is it eternal truth?..stories are not..principals are..
God, of course. What less proof would one need? Scriptures are no proof at all, they were written by men. The universe itself shows us how it came about on its own.
quite right..books called holy are man's product...
Human reasoning is inherently flawed.Therefore, there is no reasonable way to challenge a proposition. I propose that God exists. Therefore, God exists. lol In my younger days I was a cursing, drinking, smoking, gambling, bastard. That all changed once I became religious.
Proof that God exists.
To me anyway.
Why is it inherently flawed? What is your "reasoning" for that claim?
One can propose anything they want, does that necessarily make it true?
Not really, that only proves you have admitted to yourself that you were a "cursing, drinking, smoking, gambling, bastard" and you wanted to change. Therapy and counseling may very well have produced the same results as turning to religion.
Unfortunately, the problem you have admitted has not yet been addressed, but only masked by the crutch of religion. Therapy and counseling, on the other hand, would have had you face those problems and deal with them once and for all.
I disagree the problem has been addressed, now I travel the country delivering products to the nation. I don't drink I haven't done any of the things I did for almost twenty years now, (Thank God). To say I haven't addressed the problems is absurd except from an non-believers point of view. I agree that therapy and counseling are options also, just not the only ones. Thank You.
P.S. If I haven't addressed the problems in twenty years as you say, perhaps it would be better for you to stay off the highway.
It's not only not absurd, but true. Exchanging one vice for another is not addressing the underlying problem, it's just an exchange.
Perhaps if one considers a belief in God a vice. But since my belief is neither immoral or depraved I don't consider it a vice. To say that my beliefs are a vice is absurd but I'm not insulted by your lack of understanding. Good luck to you sir.
P.S. Remember what I said about the highway now, there are more drivers like me then not.
No one said your beliefs are immoral, but it has been shown the god you believe in is not moral, nor teaches morality.
The point being is that finding religion to replace the things you didn't want to do anymore didn't solve the initial problem as to why you were doing those things in the first place. Only facing up to those reasons will help put them to rest.
by Beelzedad: "I suspect that your claim "not having a clue how the heck could something so perfect be created" is based on your own knowledge and understanding of the world around you, and not others who do have a clue? smile"
Oh, sorry I forgot - There was one BIG booom and BAM that's it - we got a brand new perfect world here, great! That's cool that there are things like this to happen for no reason. And this reaction was also without action am I right?
Well there is a pile of empirical evidence for the big bang, as opposed to none for any god ever.
Just a book that tells you that a fairy in the sky made himself, then became his own son to murder himself so he could come back to life as one of the species he once wiped out cos he lost his foul temper like a 3 year old.
Yeh! That makes sense!
FYI Universe is 13.7 billion year old, so you can
guess how much time it took to form this solar system,galaxies. If you refute this, then welcome to ignorance.
I don't see anything "perfect" about our world at all, based on the definition.
I also don't see the need for a "reason" for our world to be here.
There most likely was an action that brought our universe into existence. I don't see anything magical or divine within that action.
Yeah I have been asked for proof. Of course he can't be seen. I have compared God to the wind. Ya can't see the wind, you see the effects it has on the leaves, you can feel the wind on your face, but you can't see it. Same with God. We can't see him, but we see the effects he has, and we can feel him. I was told you can see the atmosphere, same thing. No, the wind, air, is invisible. Any one who can see air has a lot better eyes than I do.
On rare ocasions we can hear our heart beat. That is him! But even then, we gotta be ready to hear it.
Yeah, we "feel" him.
Some times people take so many things as coincidence, or luck.
Lol, no, it's God's hand in our lives.
You saw where the snow sent my car last winter. Was it "luck" that there was only cosmetic damage to my car, or was some one watching over me that day? I believe God was watching over me, and took care of my car that day. It could have been a lot worse.
Some body else was protected as well. That person that was right in the way wasn't there.
Yeah, the person who was late, ( for some reason ) and wasn't coming down the road at the time. I could have just as easily have hit that tree instead of going thru the barb wire fence and down the embankment. The angle I went, the car could have rolled over. With it being a convertible that would have given me a headache. lol
The atmosphere is not invisible, that is false information. We can see the composition of the atmosphere with microscopes and know exactly what is there. Why would you spread false information to make an argument in favor of your invisible god? That's not very honest of you.
I can not see the air. I see what happens when the air moves, the effects of the air, but I do not see air. It is transparent isn't it? It doesn't block the view of anything. There is air between me and a tree, I only see the tree.
No, that isn't being dishonest. I do not see the air.
Yes, you are being dishonest when you make claims that the atmosphere cannot be observed. You would be disingenuous to further support your dishonest claim with a strawman argument.
These things are taught in high school. Did you not attend?
Yes, I attended high school. I still see nothing blocking the view of the tree. The air is transparent. Sorry
Sorry, you have to spread disinformation to support your religious belief system. That is very sad.
I can see through an aquarium filled with water, but according to you, the water isn't there to block my vision.
I'm not trying to defend my faith. Even if I didn't have faith, it doesn't change the fact that I can't see the air.
You see the picture one way, I see it another.
Again, that is not true. You were making a comparison with your invisible god and made the claim that the wind was also invisible, that they were somehow equivalent.
You're not seeing the picture in another way, you're clearly fabricating things to support your faith.
Ya know what Beelzedad. We are not going to see things the same way.
You are scientifically minded, I'm not. My claim, is the way I see things. To me, air is invisible. When I look at the tree, I see nothing in between. I know the atmosphere is there, but I see nothing. If the wind isn't blowing, I feel nothing.
I'm not defending my faith. I have the right to it, as you have the right to not. I used the air as an example to explain how I see things. I wasn't even asking you to explain your view. I was converseing with another believer.
I don't think life has to be so complicated. The important things in life, is really rather simple.
I can see something in the air, It's a bird! It's a plane! It's SUPERMAN!
But , all seriousness aside, IF god is real, then he has to be incredibly large, or incredibly small. Half of you look low, the other half look high, and we'll all meet somewhere in VALHALLA!
ARGUMENT FROM BLINDNESS (I)
(1) Atheists are spiritually blind.
(2) Every person has a soul
(3) Therefore, God exists.
Actually, what I think this guy is trying to say, is that you have to honestly seek god, then and only then, when you are honestly seeking, god reveals himself to you, and does so, in such a way, as to be undeniable to you, the individual.
Sounds like an idiot god who has no comprehension of human nature, kinda like those who are religious.
The god of the bible and every other religion, claims omnipotence, therefore knows everything including what will happen.
Therefore, contradicts. Because any god that would be omnipotence would know about human nature, and realize simple faith or belief would never be enough. Knowing that, it/he/she or whatever, would have to make their individual presence KNOWN for certain.
The fact that you have to use faith and belief is ridiculous and proves there is no god.
Lost to what?
May I offer a challenge to your reference to this god thing?
I hope you are man enuf to offer an answer, but my preminition is that you will ignore me, absolutely.
Here's my challenge: Pls quote me one monotheistic scripture that defines this god thing you speak of in terms other than conjecture or opinion.
If you can't, then all you have to base your "presumptions" on is guess and hope....right?
I don't expect to get an answer from ya because ya have to agree with me.....lol ty .
And.............., your point for this monologue is what? Too push people even further away from Christianity, Jesus Christ and God?
If that was your intention, good job.
Matter of fact, you've done a mighty fine job here of doing just that.
Could you have sounded any more preachy?
Problem is, positive reinforcement trumps negative reinforcement. So the glorious eternal life and the meaningfulness to everything suffered on earth promised to Dave by his particular religion, will always beat "[don't be] preachy" in the influencing-Dave's-behaviour stakes.
How can you be silly enough to ask for proof when proof is subjective?
How many innocent people have gone to a state-sponsored deaths because the state "provided evidence", while the jury "believed" that the evidence presented in "good faith" by the state supported a subjective opinion of guilty?
If you ask for proof, you are not interested in rational discourse; you only want to sell an opinion to the jury.
Proof of God. i think it is enough to have life and believe in God. Our life is the best proof that there is God. It is not an evolution.
Science and religion. Faith and fact. Seems as though there would be a simple approach to this subject, but there is not. Logic overrides faith while faith attempts to hold it's ground on the same merits. Shall we go around in circles? There is only one way to approach this topic. Scientifically or religiously. The two do not combine in the same conversation. They do but that is termed a argument. When the time comes we will all learn a lesson but until then agree to disagree. Who knows what lies on the other side? What I do know is this; either way, none of us are in a hurry to prove it. We all have the same guarantee when we enter into this world; we will all die. Be patient there will come a time when we all will know the answer to this question. Until then, lets just argue about sports.
(If you believe you have no soul to begin with, then YOU are LOST.)
You lost me with that assertion.
Thanks for clearing that up. My life is now worth living.
How can you prove both mind and soul separate from the material body?
I like the following "proof": I believe in God, that's why God exists, and I do not have time to deal with all the rest of you morons who don't!
ARGUMENT FROM BELIEF
(1) If God exists, then I should believe in Him.
(2) I believe in God.
(3) Therefore, God exists.
This is the best argument for belief in God I have yet seen on Hub pages, as it acknowledges that the issue is completely subjective and dependent on the faith of an observer.
To believe in God is to believe that you have a higher moral standard than someone who does not. To believe in God means that you have a obligation to uphold what is true based on your beliefs. You do no have a right to call someone out of their name because they disagree with you. Freedom of speech is what I think it is called. The freedom to think is a personal freedom that every one of us shares. To become angry with someone because they do not think as you do is not very God like at all. Those who believe now may not believe later, while those who do not believe now may come to believe later. There are people who live in the same cities as we do who have nothing to eat or nowhere to sleep. If you believe in God let your actions be a reflection of that. Do something or say something that would be pleasing in Gods sight other then just saying I believe. Hitler believed in God. Words without actions are the work of morons. Give a hungry person something to eat and you can better prove God through your actions of kindness. If all the people who believe in God practiced what they preached, we might just come to find out that heaven is on earth.
More ignorant threads to join the rest of the ignorant threads.
The logic in the OP is flawed, not to mention, biased and not objective thought. How boring...
Everyhing on earth is said to be flawed by someone.
Relating it with air, heart-beat is the most flawed way of proving creator's existence. Little pressure on brain muscles can help understand things better that universal creator if can't be seen and gets compared with wind or hear-beat then that entity has to be the lamest possible excuse of existence.
I have never been to China. I've never seen it for myself. Likewise I've never seen Mars or Pluto. I've never seen a creature called a Waterbear, but my son tells me it is really cool. I've been told that these things exist, but I've never seen them for myself.
So should I dismiss them because without seeing them, you can't prove to me that Mars is really out there?
I have faith that there really is a place called China. I have faith that the planets are really out there orbiting gracefully in the silence and darkness of space.
I have never seen, but I believe. Why is it such a stretch then to believe that there is a God out there as well?
It often occurs to me that while Atheists demand proof before they believe, it could just as easily be argued that they can not prove He doesn't exist, either. Wouldn't it be better to err on the side of caution?
LOL Err on the side of caution? Why? Oh - you mean your invisible super being will punish me for thinking for myself and coming to a rational decision?:
LOLOLOLOLOL is all your ridiculous argument deserves. The Star Goat is angry with you for lying about the true God and will be visiting you to break the legs of your offspring. Soon.
Watch out behind you.
I have been to China - just to make sure. It was there.
The Invisible Super Daddy?
Be careful of Pascal's Wager. That Pascal dude is responsible for ruining many souls.
God is not stupid. 'He' knows when you're hedging your bets so you can make it to Heaven without possessing true genuine faith in your soul. And God punishes this sneaky and fraudulent behavior rather harshly!
You see, I too believed this idiot Pascal in my previous life. I too thought I would make it to Heaven. But God knew what I was up to from the get go!
'He' sent me back to Earth and punished me with another mortal life, with even more temptations from people like you,....telling me to believe for the sake of believing and err on the side of caution.
God wants good, moral, hard-working and honest people in heaven, so the ones who get into heaven will be only those who question and search intensely for truth instead of lazily accepting someone else's word on the matter - meaning the humanists, agnostics, and atheists have the edge in a heavenly reward, and the lazy-minded fundie bible thumpers had best study up on Prisoner's Dilemma to hold down their time served in hell.
Some people. Dodging the question. Hey here it is AGAIN short, sweet and to the point.
What proof, as an atheists, do you have that will prove there is no God.
You are attempting the Argument from Ignorance - showing that atheism cannot disprove God does then by default prove God.
When it comes to proof and truth, it is always determined by the opinion of the observer. Relax, no one can change your mind about God unless you let them.
Examine the light within to discover the eternal now and with that the other dimension-thence God. Life is a journey of discovery that is predestined. Enjoy that journey and at all times be oneself and simply observe the space around us and within.
I saw God in a yorkshire pudding....then I poured gravy on it and ate the F$%&er!!!
Yes and then it'll come outta my arse just like the true believers spouting their gospel appraisals....I'll make it a runny one!
Proof of God?
I cant see air so there must be an Invisible God
Curse u! This is a work of Satan...but no matter whatever you prove, WE Believers Will Keep Our Eyes Closed, Mind Shut & Brain Dead for the rest of our life...We will never let you teach us...Never...Ever...Ever!!!
Wow. There are a lot of angry people on this forum. You say you believe in no God but you believe in Satan. What is your definitive proof for the existance of Satan? And how are you justifying his existance while still being able to not believe in God's existance? Just curious.
proof of god?..well no one can prove it ..that is why HE is called god...
Saw God once.....he was drunk in a pub in Bradford as he has just given up and I think he needed the day off or something....I approached him about curing my piles but he wouldn't, so I had to go to the chemist and get some cream for it on prescription.....oh the cream is doing wonders now and I can sit down without any discomfort.
So the proof of god didn't have anything to do with it.....I saved myself from piles from hell!
Everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinion...So here's mine..God does exist..Man is very intelligent.. but cannot and did not create this universe..For the people who say there is no proof.. then do tell who created you...was it mother earth,atoms,modules,monkeys,aliens or the big explosion..And when it comes your time to leave this world..Can you pray to these sources to save your life..or perhaps save your own life..Did you just evolve one day..and find oxygen..and say oh this is kool..I think I'll just stay here awhile..many of you say there is no proof that God exist..I ask you where is that no proof...you say the bible was written by man..well of course it was..I dont think pencils had been invented yet..And I dont think The Holy Spirit writes.. But the words..Are the words of God... And for those who have read it..I ask you..who would care enough about you to leave you any information,or even attempt to explain the reason you are here. Who would care what happened to you..And certainly would not care where you ended up..I have never met anyone..who has gotten out of this world alive..Nor would I want to..Everyone is entiled to their own belief.. this is just mine.. no harm intended.
(the words of God...)
The words of God say that donkeys can talk to humans.
The words of God say that touching Eliza's bones caused a dead man to come back to life.
The words of God say that an Army was resurrected from skeletal bones.
The words of God say that a human priest had no mother and no father, was never born, but would live forever.
The words of God say that sprinkling the blood of a bird in a house is the cure for leprosy.
Who is it again that hasn't read the words?
Where did the God's word say all these things? Please quote from Quran; the only protected and secure Word existing in the original language it was revealed.
It is not mentioned there.
It said so in the bible, which, according to Christian opinion, is a holy book. I hope you have the good sense to agree that the Quran is only YOUR opinion of what a holy book is, as well?
Me, I have my own holy book: "that's the way things go when you elevate mediocre people to positions of authority." Catch 22, Chapter 29, page 335
When some one has a question in their mind, that they don't have an answer for they are out of balance, (out of homiostasis)
Proof of this the need to be in homiostasis, if someone says can you keep a secret? Then says never mind you will go nuts and probably force the secret out of your tormenter.
Well if a question can't be answered, the victim of homiostasis imbalance will invent an answer.
Where did we come from? What is the meaning of life? What happens after we die?
Many different answers have been invented over the years.
I'm sorry but you don't get my point and I don't have time to explain everything - I could write books about these things.
Faith in God is not a switch I can flip on or off...rather when I look at the switch I just note its position, that's where I stand
What's the title of this forum... "Proof of God?" You can't prove God is or isn't... you can only believe in God or not.
Some people don't "get" that belief in God is all about faith. If everyone could see Him, like for example, we see trees, what would be the point? The faith part would be lost. I totally believe in a Supreme Being. Maybe He's a guy with a long white beard, or perhaps He's an alien.
Proof Of God?
Asking proof of the Creator- God Allah YHWH, in my opinion, is like a blind person asking proof of the Sun, that he would believe that there is a Sun only if he sees the Sun.
Would he be reasonable? Anybody please.
That is almost as difficult as describing reality to the religious believer, the only difference is that the blind man will get a sun burn.
I guess the pain of the sunburn would be proof than wouldn't it? After all, a blind man can't actually "see" anything so a blind man saying he won't believe in the sun unless he sees it doesn't even make sense since he can't see anything else either.
Very good! He is blind, so of course he can't see the sun.
He can feel the effects the sun has on his face.
We can't see God, but, we do feel him.
A tiring debate.
Whether there's a god or not -- which there probably isn't -- the more hateful you are, the more evil you are. Evil isn't tangible, but it does exist in mankind as part of our nature. For the most part religion seems to embrace evil without knowing how they are doing so.
Just my 2 cents on the topic. Probably wont remember to come here to check replies lol
by paarsurrey 10 years ago
The Creator-God Allah YHWH is only attributive and has no physical existence. When Scientists say they don’t see him in anything; in fact they announce that He exists.
by wordscribe41 11 years ago
The following post is in response to a statement made by another hubber and the many posts I've read using logical fallacies:"the burden of proof" is NOT on the believers. There is no burden to prove He exists because it is by FAITH that we believe. It is by faith we called on to believe....
by Atheist Anthony 6 years ago
I saw a forum entitled "Show me proof that god doesn't exist" I figured I'd ask all the followers of god to prove to me that god does in fact exist and please use facts and give me valuable proof.
by SaiKit 10 years ago
A lot of skeptics made the following logical fallacy:Skeptics: Can you prove that God exists? if not, then you are illogical if you believe in a God that you can't prove to be existing! This is the fallacy of "False Delimma" Just because you can't prove a theory or belief, doesn't mean...
by accofranco 11 years ago
If your answer is yes,what is your proof.And then which religion is the true religion and which one is false and why do you think so?
by Jake Brannen 5 years ago
How can you be an atheist if you can't disprove the existence of God?What validity is there to the double negative argument for the existence of God? Is it really rational to justify belief in something by the mere fact that it cannot be disproved? You also can not disprove the existence of...
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