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How Are Atheists Created?

  1. yoshi97 profile image82
    yoshi97posted 7 years ago

    Before I go into this discussion, we all need to understand that I am not a scientist, I am not a prophet, and I am not an expert on the topic. I am merely trying to offer my belief in how atheism occurs. And why some of you might not like what I am about to say, understand that it is not meant as an attack on atheism or religious belief - it is merely a collection of observations I have made personally that might help one side understand the other.

    First off, we define atheism as a disbelief in God, but there are those who carry the definition further to men those that do not attend church, those who don't read the Bible, and those who don't believe in Jesus.

    In actuality, atheism is the act of rejecting religious views, preferring to view the world outside the realm of religion. It's people saying there is no higher power to answer to.

    Now, before going any further, I need it to be known that I am not an atheist ... I'm merely doing what I can to explain how people make the choice to become atheists.


    For many, the choice is made for them. Religion offers that all things are possible through prayer and many people take this to heart. So, when they pray for something really big (such as, not having a loved one day), and that person dies, they become angry with God and refuse to believe in him anymore.

    However, we can't hate what we refuse to believe in. These people are not true atheists, as their hatred for God shows a belief exists. And modern religion doesn't help, as these people are made to feel wrong over their vendetta with God, which only goes to show them that God's followers have turned on them as well.

    These people grow to hate God more, convinced that religion must be false. Why else would God and his believers turn against them? Surely, in their minds, it can only be because they have exposed a truth - God doesn't really exist. They then dig deeper to prove this non-existence, angering the believers more, proving the person right in their own mind to no longer believe.

    In time, they do fall to true atheism, going with the mindset that it is them versus an invisible God, and they seek retribution on that part of the world that has turned against them ... seeing no love or beauty in something they once held sacred. They feel cheated ... and those who keep calling them a sinner only make things worse.


    Of course, for others it's simply a lack of proof that makes them atheists. They witness religion as a whole, seeing the many cruel and evil things performed by those who say they believe and deem it impossible for a religion based on goodness to be represented by those who act so poorly.

    They listen to the zealots scream about salvation being at hand and see it as no more than lunacy, for in their minds they already have a mathematical equation that proves God can't possibly exist. And for every verse offered as proof, they see it as nothing more than smoke and mirrors.


    And then there is another type of atheist. This atheist sees religion as control and does not want to give up control of their own life. They can't see any beauty in God as they see God as nothing more than a method for the few to control the many. Considering what they see happening among the believers, they feel their point proven over and over again.


    The final type of atheist wants to believe in God, but is unable to do so, as they can't be certain which path is the right one to follow. With so many contradicting views being offered they know not which way to turn or how to behave.

    With no certainty as to which path actually leads to God, they roam aimlessly, setting up their own belief system to comfort themselves and refusing to accept what others offer. Person A tells them they must take a path through the mountains to achieve salvation, whereas person B tells them they must avoid the mountains at all costs - and so, the person remains motionless, unable to travel any further.


    But here's the ultimate truth all followers need to know. While atheism isn't created by believers, believers work hard to prevent atheists from changing their view. How?

    By passing judgment on atheists and calling them impure, they widen the gap between atheists and God. And there are other methods used: blame, unworthiness, ostracism, the list goes on ...


    And then atheists receive the true message of God (at least the one the followers are willing to deliver). If you are an atheist then there is no God for you, and thus, you must go away and never return to the flock.

    Never once in my 43 years have I seen a man gently encouraged to give up atheism and return to religion. Never once have I seen a believer tell an atheist to travel the road they feel most comfortable with, in the hope this gesture might make it easier for the atheist to return to religion.

    Once an atheist ... never again with God ... that's what many believers feel in their heart - and this prevents atheists from ever returning to religion unless they are willing to totally reinvent themselves and force themselves to embrace the full doctrine again, rather than have a chance to accept it slowly - as they once did as children.


    We ... believers ... hold atheists away from God. And this makes no sense, as The Bible says to 'go out and preach the word'. Somewhere, the message got convoluted into 'force those to believe who will do so and abandon those who you see as having no hope'.


    Religion is not a country club ... it's a belief in goodness that can be shared by all. Believers should never determine how another man is to believe in God ... lest they help foster yet another atheist in this world.

    To all believers I ask you this ... How many atheists have you brought back to God? How many non-believers have you converted to belief? Do you spread the word to those who don't believe, or do you use the words of God to push them away like a knife?

    Is the Bible a book of worship for all, or is it a sword to be wielded into the backs of those who don't believe?

    I ask these questions this Christmas Eve, as we consider this one of the most holy days of the year. As such, we should take this day to reflect upon what we have done over the past 365 days and then ask what we could do better in the 365 to come.


    As for me ... I will continue as I have for many years ... not judging those who chose not to believe and hoping - though my own actions - to show them that belief does not entail surrendering to religion, but rather, relishing in what belief has to offer.

    I don't quote versus; I don't threaten eternal damnation; I don't pass judgment. I simply offer that life can be better when one allows themselves to believe God watches over them, never allowing them to be left alone.


    This is the true message of Christmas, that none of us should ever be alone ... as we all should have someone watching over our shoulders. Even for the atheist I offer substance ... that while you might not believe in God, you could conceive that there could be someone out there who believes in you. Don't call him God ... just consider it the essence of life looking after one of its own. And you need not pray ... you need only to allow yourself the moment to feel warm inside, and to realize you have lived through another day - for which you should be thankful.

    And to all believers I say this to you. Atheists are not the enemy of God - they are his lost children. Allow them to find their own way as you once found yours. And should they never find the road again, know that God looks out for them and does not ask you to do this in his place.


    Bless all, without exception ... may your holiday be a safe and merry one! smile

    1. profile image61
      (Q)posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I'll be sure to pass along your friendly note to those thousands of children who do believe god watches over them, but starve to death daily anyways, despite their beliefs and yours.



      Yes, let's be thankful you and I lived through another day because god watched over us.

      Should we thank him for watching over the starving, too?



      I would rather be a lost child with no one watching over me than a starving child with a god who is watching over me.




      The starving and the dead must be an exception, yes?

      1. yoshi97 profile image82
        yoshi97posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I hear what you are saying, and I too feel troubled by all of this. However, I think we all mistake God as a force we can call upon to end everyone's woes. While others might subscribe to that - I do not.

        Consider well what I am about to say, and you might find you agree:

        In my eyes God is an inner spirit, not a force to be mediated to accomplish things. It's the inner good within all of us that allows us to do good things. As an example, it's the inner voice that tells us not to walk past a beggar seeking food, but rather to take him to a restaurant and buy him a meal - to insure that he isn't hungry.

        We constantly (believers and non-believers alike) want to consider God and us as separate entities, which is somehow supposed to make God into a being we can praise or curse. I do not see God in this light.

        We all have an ability to do good things, and believe or disbelief in God does not prevent any of us from feeding the starving or healing the sick and dying.

        I do know exactly what you mean when you say 'I'll be sure to pass along your friendly note to those thousands of children who do believe god watches over them, but starve to death daily anyways, despite their beliefs and yours.'

        You have every right to be angry, because humans offset the need to help others - choosing to push the job off onto God, instead of doing it themselves.


        I lived in Houston a few years back and saw many homeless in my time. I always helped out as I could. I didn't wait for God to feed them, I helped feed them myself. Religion does not absolve a human being from helping another human being - if anything, it should make the need to do so more well known - but we both know the truth of that.


        Which is more evil ... the man who refuses to do good deeds or the man who professes good deeds must be done and does not do them himself?

        We both know the answer to this question, and I can see how it is a focus for your anger with religion. As an believer I can say this without any reservation ... you have EVERY right to be angry. In fact, you should be FURIOUS, as I am certain from your own words that you too have given to the poor and the destitute, hoping to make life better for them for the moment - and not once did you ask for reward nor praise. You did it because you are a good person.

        And by my definition, the goodness inside of a person is their personal spirit - their God , if you will - and there are many non-believers that are closer to God than there are believers, as their intents and motives are based upon doing the right thing, and not upon doing the right thing because they feel compelled they must do so.

        No, I take no offense to your statements. I will not argue against a man I know to be right.

        The extent of God's spirit ends where we are unwilling to share it (in believer's terms) and the amount of good that is accomplished ends where we are unwilling to help out (in non-believer's terms). It's all the same pie ... only some of us chose to identify the goodness inside with a name (God), whereas others just settle with the fact that it is a part of who they are.


        So ... shake a fist at God if you feel the need to do so, but understand that the power to do good deeds resides in us - and in doing so, we show ourselves as good-hearted and worthy people.


        As I said, I understand your words more than you might think, as I once blamed God too. I then realized I could make a difference by doing something ... rather than waiting for it to happen. And I also realized that God was the good side of myself, and I have been determined ever since to make it grow by helping others where I can.

        No, God is not a being standing over your shoulders ... God is a feeling from within - it's what tells us right from wrong and allows us to become more than we were the day before. We all share responsibility for those who suffer among us - just as we all share the ability to reach out and help as we can.

        Belief is your choice, and I will not find fault in you either way. However, what I ask of people is not belief ... it's something bigger ... humanity - and there are far too many who have left this behind, far too busied with out own lives to see the suffering around us.

        Donning a hat does not make one more humane ... it's what one does with his own two hands that enters the final judgment upon them ... and that's irrespective of our beliefs. smile

        1. profile image61
          (Q)posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          That's called compassion, an evolved characteristic observed in a number of species.

          Although, I never did see a lion ever having paid for a meal in a restaurant.



          Agreed, and it clearly demonstrates that those who claim gods watch over us and atheists are lost children are deluded hypocrites.



          Not really, it's only when those humans choose to praise their gods for watching over them instead of the starving millions.



          It does appear to absolve the human being from submitting to self-indulgence while ignoring a lack of indulgence elsewhere.



          It is the man who does not recognize the evils he commits in the name of gods and praises the evils his god commits on him.



          Am I that obvious? Excellent!



          No, I did not do it because I'm a good person. We do it because the world has been ruled by religious thought for many centuries and has brought us to these ends where people praise their gods for their good fortune while others perish in abject poverty.



          And of course, your definition will only be relative to you as there are no current plans to change the definition of 'compassion' to "God"



          Yes, but it does cause a lot of unnecessary confusion when one begins to redefine words to suit their own personal agenda.



          It's called compassion, most of us all have it, sans spirits.



          That's simply us deciding what is right and wrong using our brains.



          Then, don't make it part of your beliefs, one way or the other.

          Heal thyself, physician.

    2. DogSiDaed profile image61
      DogSiDaedposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      as it's Christmas time, I won't start discrediting you now, peace and all that smile I'll wait until Boxing day to become irritated tongue

    3. nyliram profile image56
      nyliramposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      How r athiests created, same way everyone is.

      1. kirstenblog profile image75
        kirstenblogposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        When a mummy and a daddy love each other very much.....

    4. profile image0
      Deborah Sextonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      They prayed about it every day till they became men and women.
      Like This...
      http://robhalford.com/quorum/images/smilies/monkey.gif

    5. nikki1 profile image55
      nikki1posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Hi, I believe bullies are at fault on this. They test Christians in a psych way. Or they joke in a way about it. Also, going to a abusive church. Where the ministry is dysfunctional. Unfortunately there are a few dysfunctional churches and ministries, etc in the world. I personally feel for the victims (Christians).  And, the outstanding church/ministries out there who do make a difference despite the odds they may go through.
      Merry Christmas to all.

      1. earnestshub profile image88
        earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I wish it would penetrate that atheists are not "gods children who are lost"
        The arrogance of this statement in light of there being not one scrap of evidence for any god is intellectually insulting!

        1. yoshi97 profile image82
          yoshi97posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          A bad choice of words on my part, Earnest ... I explained later in the thread that the words were chosen as a reference point for believers and that I didn't subscribe to them ...

          1. nikki1 profile image55
            nikki1posted 7 years ago in reply to this

            With all due respect this thread is only an opinion. There should be no apologies made in my opinion. Gods know all people, he also gives people the ability to choose their religious beliefs and etc. Bullies in my opinion try psych Christians. I myself have been bullied by Atheists in the past. Some of them were Mormons, unfortunately. They insulted me on how they acted.
            I also forgave them for their ignorance.

            1. earnestshub profile image88
              earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Well if anyone forgives ignorance it should be you! lol

              1. nikki1 profile image55
                nikki1posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                ?

                1. earnestshub profile image88
                  earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Exactly!

                  1. nikki1 profile image55
                    nikki1posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Meaning?

            2. Misha profile image74
              Mishaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              ROFLMAO lol

              1. tantrum profile image60
                tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                lol lol lol

            3. profile image0
              sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Be nice to the Mormons they are not atheists. If you really knew them you would be embarassed you said that. They donate more time and money to service projects in their communities than an equal number of any other church. There's no paid clergy they're there because they want ot be everyone teaches and everyone helps. If you met some that were not polite then that was the exception not the rule and I'm sorry that happened. Merry Christmas!big_smile

              1. nikki1 profile image55
                nikki1posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                I have no doubt their are some nice Mormons. Thank goodness. Its a shame I didn't get to see that quality that day.

                1. profile image0
                  sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  They are truely some of the most amazing people I've ever known, they're serious about what they believe but they're also some of the best friends you could ever have!

                  1. earnestshub profile image88
                    earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Just like we unbelievers eh sneaker? smile

                  2. tantrum profile image60
                    tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    That's true. But sometimes they're so boring !! lol
                    Here in HP, they're always telling me I should put some clothes on ! big_smile

    6. TimTurner profile image71
      TimTurnerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      LOL  Thanks for your misguided post.  Atheists don't hate God, just their radical followers.  And don't think your "God" is the only one.  Afterall, the Christian religion is one of the youngest religion.

      So maybe you should ask yourself why you "hate" the other religions gods since they have been around longer smile

      Why do you choose to believe in a God that's not as old as the others or their prophets?  That is the question smile

    7. Marisa Wright profile image95
      Marisa Wrightposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Yes, Yoshi, I agree with that statement.  It's exactly like being in a relationship and being betrayed - you feel hate for your ex-partner which is really just a twisted reflection of the love you felt for them. 

      However, there are many people in this situation who don't hate God - they have genuinely decided he doesn't exist.  They're not angry at God.  They're angry at the PEOPLE who try to ram religion down their throats as the panacea for everything, when they've discovered, through painful reality, that it's not. There are several people like that who frequent these forums.



      This is true, too.  Atheists generally value logic very highly.  Start telling them what they should believe or refusing to discuss anything rationally and you guarantee they'll become even more convinced believers are idiots.

      1. nikki1 profile image55
        nikki1posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Hi, Marisha Wright..
        See thats the bad part.. a real Christian does not force themselves on anyone. They just do "random act of kindness" things.. open a door for people, smile and say "hi",. God/Jesus never forced himself toward anyone. He was there for those who needed help. He was an inspiration. I for one am proud of what he did back then. Especially forgave the Romans for murdering him on the cross in front of the public like he did. That was just malicious, in my opinion. And, yet he forgave them. And asked God to forgive them as well.

    8. thevoice profile image57
      thevoiceposted 7 years ago in reply to this
    9. MikeNV profile image69
      MikeNVposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      How many times can you cut a piece of paper in half?
      How can a photon be both a wave and a particle?
      How can a photon be in more than one place at the same time?

      How is anybody created?

      Men do not have the answers so they create belief systems in order to cope with the eventual reality called Death.

      Nobody knows.

      But if it makes you feel better to jump on board a belief system and that makes your life better then jump aboard a religion and have at.


    10. chukra G profile image58
      chukra Gposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      you no need to write this much long answer to that question. atheist are created by religionist, simple.

  2. profile image0
    lyricsingrayposted 7 years ago

    Yoshi, thanks, and indeed couldn't be at a more appropriate time.  Your message is clear and helpful.  Happy Holidays to you too xo Bless.

  3. profile image0
    Will Bensonposted 7 years ago

    Maybe the best forum post I've seen. Happy holidays to you also.

  4. lorlie6 profile image86
    lorlie6posted 7 years ago

    You, Yoshi, are a compassionate believer-which you point out is somewhat rare.  I lived in the deep South for many years where many people tried to force me-a teenaged questioner, certainly-into a fundamentalist position.  It had the opposite effect.
    Now a woman in my 50's, I find myself in your last category of atheism-but I call it agnosticism.  I am on the fence to this day regarding religion. 
    I know that there is a power greater than myself, and I find folks that deny this to be somewhat arrogant.  I appreciate the Bible and its writings, its morality and its teachings.  I also appreciate holy books of other religions equally.
    Thanks for this forum.
    I hope it remains in the spirit it was started.

    1. avangend profile image61
      avangendposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      \

      Lorlie6,
      I think your story parallels my own...though I am thirty years younger and assuredly lack the accumulated wisdom of years that you possess. The great evils done by religion (not God, but religion) all come back to the inbred arrogance that results from self-righteous, self-elevating, a priori belief. "Cultural Christianity" as C.S. Lewis put it. This is not, and never will be, attractive to those seeking God rather than indoctrination.

  5. profile image0
    sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago

    What are you doing about it?

  6. moanalisa profile image57
    moanalisaposted 7 years ago

    Well said! In an era of self-aggrandizement and self-entitlement, this is a quality I feel has been so lacking in people, whether they believe in God, have a faith or not. My belief is to strive, to the best of my abilities, to create a better world around us. We're all stuck here, on this planet, here and now, and we need to find the best ways to work together, get along and to continue to thrive.

    1. DogSiDaed profile image61
      DogSiDaedposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Except he is judging.

      1. moanalisa profile image57
        moanalisaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Really? I didn't see it as a judgmental question overall, but a question posed to all based on varying views of the topic. Granted, my response didn't help to answer his question at all.

        So in response to that aspect...

        I am not against religion, nor against beliefs. What I have felt very disillusioned by in the past are based on experiences I've had.

        For example, when I was a teenager, my mother strongly encouraged me to join the local church youth group. Well, little did she know, the youth group leaders were very much into drugs and the youth activities quite often involved drugs.

        Another example is that at another church I was a member of, I found out that the pastor was sleeping with parishoners on a regular basis.

        Knowing church members who claim to be devout and being Christian and seeing how they interact outside of church gave me a loss of faith in CHURCH. Not in my beliefs, but in church itself. Those experiences didn't make me an atheist, but I could see how it would for many others.

        1. DogSiDaed profile image61
          DogSiDaedposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I agree that this shouldn't be the way people become atheists. I mean, it's good that it does do that, but ideally logic and reason should lead to atheism.

      2. yoshi97 profile image82
        yoshi97posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Actually, it's not a judgment, but rather my observations. I'm no more fit to judge mankind than the next person. I would be a pompous turd to write all that and say 'and that's the way it is', because it isn't.

        As these are observations that are open to interpretation to all, they could be filled with fallacy. Like I said, I'm not a prophet, I'm not a scientist, and I'm not an expert on the topic. As I am none of these, I'm neither skilled or ordained to pass judgment - that's why I felt it important to preface everything I said as I wanted to give everyone something to think about.

        I'm not looking for converts to my faith. In fact, that would be impossible, as my current beliefs don't fit entirely within any faith.

        All I am looking for is for one side to hopefully understand the other better, with the hope some good could come of it. smile

        1. DogSiDaed profile image61
          DogSiDaedposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I quite like my position tongue But no arguing til after Christmas, so a Merry Christmas to you! smile

          1. yoshi97 profile image82
            yoshi97posted 7 years ago in reply to this

            I thoroughly agree. Christmas is a time for joy. Merry Christmas to you, too! smile

  7. TMMason profile image63
    TMMasonposted 7 years ago

    Well said.

  8. profile image0
    sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago

    Ok! This is how I heard atheists were created. A while back in a land near Antartica devoid of life. It was rocky with a lot of nooks and cranies. Under the rocks grew a virus so mean and so vile you could lose control of your bowels just looking at it! Well one day a rock fell into the water and the virus was rubbed onto some traveling shrimp. Well these shrimps flicked there way north until they were near California. Then all of a sudden they were snatched out of the water by Meat Eaters! Well the infected shrimp ended up at a bistro by the beach and were eaten by tourists from Maine. While on their way home they shared with everyone and the rest is history! Merry Christmas!

  9. Shadesbreath profile image86
    Shadesbreathposted 7 years ago

    I think your intentions are good here Yoshi, and you have defined different types of people who have issues with religion and/or God in an interesting manner.  However, I think you have sort of blended atheism with various belief systems.  Atheism is the lack of belief in a God, or more succinctly, the belief there isn't one.  Period. 

    Religion and God do not necessarily, as in being mutually dependent, require one another, although religion does typically accompany any given collective belief system.  An example would be Horace Miner's study of a Native American tribe whose entire religious system is without a God, and yet fits every requirement of being a religion. (Click HERE for article on American Anthropological Association website.)

    A lot of those you call "atheists" up there are people who hate hypocrisy, who are angry or frustrated at some manifestation of reality and a harsh human existence, etc.  People can't hate god and call themselves atheists. Well, they can, but they are using the wrong word to describe themselves.

    And I think you are 100% correct to suggest that religion drives more people from God than anything else. Every time one of those sanctimonious people start spouting about "poor lost souls that could be saved if they'd only recognize the truth" opens their hole and spews that crap, they crumple pages of scripture and stuff them into Jesus' mouth, silencing His message with irony that must just make Satan laugh his ass off.

    1. yoshi97 profile image82
      yoshi97posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I thoroughly agree with everything you said.

      I did try to differentiate by saying you can't hate God and not believe in him, because you can't hate what you don't believe in, but I think the length of my post helped that sniglet become lost in the words.

      If any message was to come of it, I had hoped it would be that non-believers are often pushed into disbelief, and they should be allowed to find their own path rather than be persecuted for their choice. smile

      1. profile image54
        tellstevericeposted 7 years ago in reply to this
  10. double_frick profile image61
    double_frickposted 7 years ago

    advancement of logic and reasoning capacities?

    the blatant corruption and hypocrisy rampant in religion.

  11. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 7 years ago

    Well, I see it a bit differently. As a committed christian I began to realise through bible study that the only source of belief in a god were from only a few books that basically read the same. Believe in me or die, and to make sure you die my followers are permitted to kill torture and enslave.

    The Bible and quoran are not believable as anything more than some well written prose, outmoded moralizing, mingled with psychotic mental processes promoting hate fear and loathing, whittled down in the NT to make some of the neurosis palatable.
    In truth I believe many non believers just stopped being gullible.

  12. Bovine Currency profile image59
    Bovine Currencyposted 7 years ago
    1. earnestshub profile image88
      earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Which article are you pointing to BC?

      1. Bovine Currency profile image59
        Bovine Currencyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        None in particular

        1. Bovine Currency profile image59
          Bovine Currencyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Just a reminder.

          1. earnestshub profile image88
            earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Yes, at this time of excess it is worth thinking about the rest of mankind. smile
            Mugabe's drunken criminals through another white farmer off his farm this morning I heard on BBC.
            Not a happy Xmas for us all!

            1. Bovine Currency profile image59
              Bovine Currencyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Some would say luck is just an accident at birth smile

              1. earnestshub profile image88
                earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Well it certainly looks like that to me. I was born in "The lucky Country" If I were born in a third world country that is the life I would have had. Zealot religionists insist that it is otherwise of course, it is caused by "sin" Makes me wanna puke!!

                1. Bovine Currency profile image59
                  Bovine Currencyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  I just remembered, you are a fellow Aussie.  I actually stole that line from a Sydney hip hop group and a song they wrote about racism in Australia, inspired by the Cronulla riots.  They are not very well known, a little too political for the mainstream I think.  The song includes a couple of sound bytes, one from a politician something along the lines of, 'its not just one or two of these middle eastern bastards, its the whole bloody lot of em.'

                  As if he would know.

                  I have friends who have been given asylum in Australia from Iraq.  They are Kurdish and most of them spent 10+ years in Lebanon before finding their way here.

                  I had better reference the artists, they go by the name of Spit Syndicate.

                  1. earnestshub profile image88
                    earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Interesting. I have heard the song, but did not remember their name. Yes they were not mainstream, and if I try I may even remember the stupid polly who said that! smile

                2. sooner than later profile image57
                  sooner than laterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  You need to stop assuming that you know the thoughts and hearts of every Christian. You point has been attempted in over 8,000 posts. Your realization of God's absence in all that is bad might come too late if you continue to listen to yourself.

                  1. Bovine Currency profile image59
                    Bovine Currencyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Same same.

                    I hope you don't mind me butting in there earnest lol

                3. sooner than later profile image57
                  sooner than laterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  need a barf baggie

                  1. Bovine Currency profile image59
                    Bovine Currencyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Awwww, bubba got a sooore tummy?

                    lol

                    Go to church, they will give you a good rub lol

                  2. earnestshub profile image88
                    earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Thank you, but I'm fine now I've barfed on your shirt! lol

  13. fatfist profile image76
    fatfistposted 7 years ago

    yoshi,

    You conveniently left out some particular categories of "atheists" from your dissertation. You left out the atheist who believes in Jesus, but lacks belief in the God called Allah, Krishna, Wotan, etc. Or how about the atheist who believes in the spirit of Nature, Consciousness, human goodness etc., but lacks belief in Jesus, Allah, etc. Let's not forget all these atheists.

  14. aware profile image71
    awareposted 7 years ago

    with sugar and spice and everything nice of corse

  15. Bovine Currency profile image59
    Bovine Currencyposted 7 years ago

    Moo Ha, funny that.  Why make fun of earnest when he is feeling sick?  Allergic reaction to religion is a serious condition.  Not very nice sooner!

    1. sooner than later profile image57
      sooner than laterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      thank goodness its not contagious.

  16. sooner than later profile image57
    sooner than laterposted 7 years ago

    get it awwwl out. Me don't want yurr wittle tummy get upset.

    1. Bovine Currency profile image59
      Bovine Currencyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Grown ups are talking now.  Go play with Jesus.

      1. sooner than later profile image57
        sooner than laterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Daddy's home- pick your toys up and clean up that mess near the toilette.

        1. Bovine Currency profile image59
          Bovine Currencyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Bored.

          1. sooner than later profile image57
            sooner than laterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            I had to do something to break up the monotonous pitty party. My work is done here.

  17. Bovine Currency profile image59
    Bovine Currencyposted 7 years ago

    Cya round

    1. sooner than later profile image57
      sooner than laterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      yep

      1. Bovine Currency profile image59
        Bovine Currencyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        kiss kiss

  18. moanalisa profile image57
    moanalisaposted 7 years ago

    (Q) gave a reply that fits all too well with my beliefs. Take it or leave it, I don't ask for judgment from you, your gods nor anyone...

    We are each responsible for what we do here on this earth, whether religion calls into it or not. If I cannot look myself in the mirror and say, "Yes, I am proud of who I am" then yes, I have failed all else.

    1. sooner than later profile image57
      sooner than laterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      If you created those feelings and emotions, then and only then it would be noble.

      1. moanalisa profile image57
        moanalisaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        What you said makes no sense to me. Can you please elaborate?

        1. sooner than later profile image57
          sooner than laterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Yes, "But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away." Now this is not a mockery, but it is how I feel as well. Many times I see people explain to me that they are a good person- but the standard is self assumed.

          What is a good deed that we recognize of ourself? Self righteousnesses.

          1. yoshi97 profile image82
            yoshi97posted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Or to re-quote it a different way ... Good deeds are acts performed out of our own compassion, with no want for nor expectation for the same in return. smile

  19. moanalisa profile image57
    moanalisaposted 7 years ago
  20. profile image0
    Citrus000posted 7 years ago

    Hummm...I am just going to jump out on a limb here and say that all Atheists are created equal.

  21. profile image0
    Citrus000posted 7 years ago

    Yoshi, I really appreciated reading the intro post you had written. I am not a religious person myself, however I do not necessarily consider myself atheist either. I grew up with a family parted by religion some of them being atheist, and some of them being Jehovah Witness. There has always been a lot of  bitterness and judgment of each others beliefs in my family, which is really sad I think.

    I am just going to finish by saying thank you again. It is quite nice to read a religious persons point of view who takes the time to study other peoples views of religion, and shows love for people regardless.

  22. getitrite profile image79
    getitriteposted 7 years ago

    Using any method to get an atheist to come back to religion is nonsense.  Most atheist are intelligent, and asking them to come back to your way of thinking is asking them to be intellectually dishonest.  Believers believe, despite the fact that religion defies common sense, and has to resort to magic as an explanation for the many outlandish claims.

    Whether you think so or not, belief in an imaginary being is a delusion.  That is all it is!  There is really nothing to offer an atheist--except a delusion.  It would be better if the religionists just kept their nonsense to themselves.  I left religion a long time ago, and I'm never going to be intellectually dishonest again.  Many great thinkers throughout history have shared this view.


    http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx302/AtheismPics/atheism_good_enough-300x297.gif

  23. tantrum profile image60
    tantrumposted 7 years ago

    @yoshi

    Why all of you  'Believers', offend Atheists in this way, all the time ??
    What's your problem!! ??


    'And to all believers I say this to you. Atheists are not the enemy of God - they are his lost children. Allow them to find their own way as you once found yours. And should they never find the road again, know that God looks out for them and does not ask you to do this in his place.'

    WE ARE NOT LOST CHILDREN !

    Is that so difficult to understand ? Or do you have 'mental' problems ??
    Pleassseee !!!!

  24. tantrum profile image60
    tantrumposted 7 years ago

    @yoshi

    you wrote:

    'In actuality, atheism is the act of rejecting religious views, preferring to view the world outside the realm of religion. It's people saying there is no higher power to answer to.
    Now, before going any further, I need it to be known that I am not an atheist ... I'm merely doing what I can to explain how people make the choice to become atheists.
    For many, the choice is made for them. Religion offers that all things are possible through prayer and many people take this to heart. So, when they pray for something really big (such as, not having a loved one day), and that person dies, they become angry with God and refuse to believe in him anymore.
    However, we can't hate what we refuse to believe in. These people are not true atheists, as their hatred for God shows a belief exists. And modern religion doesn't help, as these people are made to feel wrong over their vendetta with God, which only goes to show them that God's followers have turned on them as well.
    These people grow to hate God more, convinced that religion must be false. Why else would God and his believers turn against them? Surely, in their minds, it can only be because they have exposed a truth - God doesn't really exist. They then dig deeper to prove this non-existence, angering the believers more, proving the person right in their own mind to no longer believe.
    In time, they do fall to true atheism, going with the mindset that it is them versus an invisible God, and they seek retribution on that part of the world that has turned against them ... seeing no love or beauty in something they once held sacred. They feel cheated ... and those who keep calling them a sinner only make things worse.
    Of course, for others it's simply a lack of proof that makes them atheists. They witness religion as a whole, seeing the many cruel and evil things performed by those who say they believe and deem it impossible for a religion based on goodness to be represented by those who act so poorly.'



    Atheism doesn't have anything to do with hating God

    Atheists don't believe in God. So there's nothing to hate.

    People that are angry with God, are believers, not atheists.

    Atheist means: without God
    Latin
    A : without
    Theo: God


    Get it ???

    So again...



    Why all of you  'Believers', offend Atheists in this way, all the time ??
    What's your problem!! ??
    You said :


    'And to all believers I say this to you. Atheists are not the enemy of God - they are his lost children. Allow them to find their own way as you once found yours. And should they never find the road again, know that God looks out for them and does not ask you to do this in his place.'

    WE ARE NOT LOST CHILDREN !

    Is that so difficult to understand ? Or do you have 'mental' problems ??
    Pleassseee !!!!

  25. yoshi97 profile image82
    yoshi97posted 7 years ago

    Hmmm ... I'm beginning to understand why the English language should not be an international language, as so much can be misinterpreted easily and it takes so many words (a book) to convey a thought completely. Not to mention, we as humans (including myself) suffer from an attention deficit when reading anything lengthy.

    So ... I will try something different ... I will be extremely brief, but I already know that doing so will make my message appear snooty, aloof, and rude - that is not my intention. I'm just a bit frustrated at having my words spun around in a direction I never sent them and then redirected at me.


    Atheists ... I'm okay with the fact that you don't believe in God and I don't think believers should force you into belief. As long as you live a good life - we're good.

    Believers ... You believe in God and you believe that God watches over his children, so believe that God will watch over the atheists and that you don't need to force them into belief - if God wanted them forced upon the path, he's all powerful, he would do it himself. As such, free will means more to God than belief.

    Agnostics ... you are often seen as atheists and you teeter on the brink of becoming such. Take your time on the precipice and make the choice that you are most comfortable with - when you are ready to make it.

    Believers and Non-believers alike ... Compassion is the greatest gift man has to offer. One does not need belief to help their fellow man and one should not help their fellow man because they feel it is a part of their belief. Compassion should come from within our hearts and minds. We also should not pray for that which we ourselves can deliver - nor should we consider prayer as payment for goods not yet received.

    And to paraphrase the rest ... agnostics reject God, but a day can arrive when they come to the logical conclusion that God must not exist - making them into atheists. It is the furious pummeling received from believers that seems to offer this proof to the many self-proclaimed atheists I have met in my travels, for they offer this as proof - if God truly existed, his people would seek good deeds to accomplish and would treat all with endless compassion - but they see this not, which is why they come to the logical conclusion that the doctrine must be false.


    Consider it for what it all is by looking at it all from a logical standpoint ...

    Let's say I was considered a deity and I hid out in a bunker sending messengers telling you how to live a good life. Each day my messengers would spread my words, and while you never met me you knew I had to exist because of the fact my word was constantly being spread - and the words sounded good enough to be followed, and so you followed them.

    However, you see many poor and homeless not being cared for by those who have received the good words. You're told that I care for them, but you see no proof of this. And in anger, you speak out against me and are denounced by your followers for a lack of belief in me. After all, nothing good can happen for you unless you believe in me - as I am the one from whom all blessing flow.

    You might ask yourself ... what did the poor and the homeless do to lose my blessing? Why do I allow my people to ignore the destitute, when I say it is their duty to help them?

    Am I at fault as a deity for not taking care of the destitute myself? Are my followers at fault for not caring for these people as I have asked them to do? For all that matter, can it actually be said that I am really in that bunker? Yes, the messengers have seen me - but can their words be trusted?

    This logical downward spiral leads to atheism. Perhaps, it's an enlightenment and the ultimate truth of things - the bunker is empty and it's all up to us - perhaps we are just poor followers and don't do as we were asked - to care for one another.


    That's where you need to wrap your mind around something many are refusing to see. You DON'T need me inside that bunker do help the poor and the homeless, and you DON'T need to help them to appease me! If my goal was for you to be a good person then your belief in me would be irrelevant as I would not be a self-serving and vain deity looking for sockpuppets to agree with everything I say and do nothing to make it happen. It's all about the goal - goodness to one's fellow man - and I don't think we need to do too much thinking to understand the rewards to humanity if we could all adopt that principle.


    Am I believer in God? I consider myself one, but one can argue that I am an atheist, an agnostic, and a believer all wrapped up into one - and I have been accused of all three.

    Do I believe in a supreme being? No, so I am an atheist by definition.

    Do I believe there is a spiritual good inside all of us, but that it's not necessarily what others would call God? Yes, so I'm an agnostic.

    Do I believe that we are all held accountable for our actions and that there is a possibility for an afterlife? Yes, so I'm a believer.

    One can't possibly be all three - and yet, by definition I am.

    But enough of that ...


    I have one core belief, which is the only one I want to brainwash people with. Reject the rest I have said and consider it mad, delusional drivel ... that's what I want ... for what I am about to say next is all that I want anyone to take from this conversation ...

    *Be good to one another ... help those you can help ... make the world a better place to live in*

    That's all I can ask of anyone here. smile

  26. Ima Freeman profile image56
    Ima Freemanposted 7 years ago

    Atheists are created by God only, as only God, can create.
    All of creation was created by God and nothing created was created by any other form.
       Atheists know God but choose, with an act of their own free will, to disavow Him. This makes atheism an act of rebellion and disobedience against God for which there is a heavy peanalty to pay.

    1. tantrum profile image60
      tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      .

      Really ???
      I'm an Atheist and I don't believe in any God
      and I don't have anything to pay for.
      Maybe you have, due to your arrogance.

    2. getitrite profile image79
      getitriteposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      This ignorant nonsensical comment is beyond absurd.  What a profoundly limited scope!!!  RELIGIOUS GARBAGE

      1. profile image0
        Citrus000posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Agreed.

  27. alexandriaruthk profile image51
    alexandriaruthkposted 7 years ago

    they are socialized to become one

  28. tantrum profile image60
    tantrumposted 7 years ago

    @ yoshi
    You say:

    'Hmmm ... I'm beginning to understand why the English language should not be an international language, as so much can be misinterpreted easily and it takes so many words (a book) to convey a thought completely. Not to mention, we as humans (including myself) suffer from an attention deficit when reading anything lengthy.'

    Is your inference that I don't understand what you wrote??

    So you go on offending, behind subtle words!

    Why I'm not surprised???

    1. yoshi97 profile image82
      yoshi97posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Uh ... so far as I remembered we were friends, and as a friend I would never attack or belittle you. I re-explained myself as I felt you took my original post as an attack on individuals here, and I felt if it was possible for one of my friends to take my message the wrong way then perhaps I had confused everyone.

      We are not enemies, Tantrum, nor do I care to lose you as a friend over this discussion. If what I have said here in this post offends you then consider my discussion on this topic as over - as I don't want my opinions to invalidate our friendship.

      I'm not sure how you saw any of this as personal, but I assure you ... it never was, regardless of what you might have read into it. Again, that's why I hate the English language, as one can never be certain who they will offend with a poor choice of words. sad

      1. sooner than later profile image57
        sooner than laterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Yoshi, you are too nice. Tantrum is a person that aims to offend on a daily basis and lives by crass conversation. Then at times acts like she gets her feelings hurt in the most miniscule and obsurd circumstances. For example; here you have offered that this is not meant to offend anyone- and then you ask those to explain where you may have fallen short.

        I would tell her to go pound sand.

  29. sooner than later profile image57
    sooner than laterposted 7 years ago

    you over punctuate. Are your points that important?

  30. tantrum profile image60
    tantrumposted 7 years ago

    Do you think I'm so stupid or childish to cease being your friend, here in HP?
    and of course we're not enemies ! lol
    Religion is not that important !
    I'm only replying to what I think is wrong in what you said.
    I hate when someone says Atheists are lost.
    I find it offensive.
    That's all!

    I didn't misunderstood you :
    'And to all believers I say this to you. Atheists are not the enemy of God - they are his lost children. Allow them to find their own way as you once found yours. '

    1. yoshi97 profile image82
      yoshi97posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      That's the poor choice of words I spoke of. Believers see non-believers as lost children so to them I was speaking in context - but non-believers definitely don't see themselves in that light. If anything, they see themselves as finally awakened.

      I've spent my whole life bouncing around with religion, determining what I can support and what I cannot, so I can understand the three sides - total doubt, confusion, and total belief. Unfortunately, you cannot sit down with each team and have a private conversation with them without riling the other team.

      Had I instead said this ...

      'And to all believers I say this to you. Atheists are not the enemy of God - they are people who chose to reject his existence out of logic. Allow them to find their own way as you once found yours.'

      ... I would have offended the believers. There was no way to ask for neutrality during the holidays without offending someone, and I banked on the fact that the statement I originally wrote offered concessions for both - that non-believers should be allowed to believe that they will, with believers believing them to be just lost sheep.


      My wish was to have a holiday without a religious debate ... and in trying to prevent one I created one ... sad

      Ya know, if I didn't have such a big heart none of this would bother me ...

      1. profile image61
        (Q)posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Or, just awake.



        Kinda like the Muslims and the Christians and the Jews...



        Nonsense. It isn't a matter of rejecting or accepting god, it is a matter of accepting YOUR claims that YOUR god exists. Since those claims are entirely faith-based driven beliefs, their acceptance is also based entirely on faith.



        Yes, lets' support believers superiority complexes.



        So terribly sorry for interrupting your self-indulgent religious affirmation with a dose of reality.  Carry on.

        1. yoshi97 profile image82
          yoshi97posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Where in the hell did this turn into MY claims? Did I not say at the beginning these are my opinions? Did I also not say that I don't believe in a supreme being and see God as an essence (spirit) inside of us?

          If that wasn't clear, I see kindness as a spirit, love as a spirit, jealousy as a spirit, anger as a spirit. I'm not talking spooks or holy ghosts here, I'm talking about an emotion we have a capacity to carry inside of us.

          I'm not here to convert people into believing in God - if anything, I'm extremely AGAINST determining religion for another person. We need to all find our own road we are comfortable traveling upon - and that road need not lead to a deity.

          I was trying to offer that religious people trying to force non-believers into faith was counter-intuitive as it pushes them away from it even further. I say this from my personal experience, as it was believers that forged my opinion that no physical God existed, through their own actions.

          I only made peace with everything when I decided it didn't matter and stopped seeing religion (or lack of it) as a sword to carry around. My life improved sevenfold when I no longer cared who believed and who didn't. It's a personal decision and should remain as such.


          I was hoping to create some neutral ground for both parties to get along over the holidays, and yes, that was EXTREMELY selfish, but as I said, my flaw is having a big heart.

          My statements have nothing to do with religious affirmation as I never ask anyone to become a believer or chastise them for not doing so. I don't attend a church and I don't own a bible. Where would I get off asking non-believers to worship a physical God I no longer believe in? That would be hypocritical, don't you think?

          I believe what's inside of a person is their aura, their spirit, or a bunch of emotions created through many physical and emotional experiences with other human beings - take whichever explanation works best - and I believe that is what defines what we are. As such, goodness is a quality we all have and are capable of expressing. When I believe, that's what I believe in - a capacity to be good and to do good things for others.

          As for self-indulgent ... My only mission here was to try and build a bridge. If no one wants the bridge then I'm fine with that ... but dammit ... why attack me for trying? Is peace for Christmas that ugly of an idea?

          For me, Christmas isn't about baby Jesus in a manger or presents under a tree ... it's about setting aside all differences for one day.

          Is that an awful thing to wish upon others?

  31. Jess Killmenow profile image61
    Jess Killmenowposted 7 years ago

    I was going to say something smart-ass like athiests are not created, they are born like everybody else, but looking at the discussion, I thought perhaps that is too two dimensional even for me. 

    It seems that everyone must come to their own understanding about the higher power.  Everyone, I think, seeks an answer.  An easy answer is to say, 'that only exists that I see.'  Another easy answer is to believe what someone else (i.e. Jesus) tells you to believe. 

    In my own quest I have begun at this late date to see many commonalities between various beliefs and I am feeling a stronger connection to the higher power than ever before.  Meditation and prayer seem to be one in the same. 

    But many wise people have said that it is not ours to judge, but judgement belongs to the higher power.  I hope for everyone that they may find peace and happiness in this existence, and do not begrudge them the stick that they prefer to support themselves as they go on with their journey.  If atheism is a comfort to someone, why contest it?  It does not challenge my beliefs.  The higher power does not depend on belief to exist, but vice versa. 

    Anyway, that's what this particular cartoon thinks.

  32. tantrum profile image60
    tantrumposted 7 years ago

    Well, I have a small heart, so it's not bothering me.

    Have your Holiday in peace ! smile

  33. profile image0
    lyricsingrayposted 7 years ago

    the same as everybody else.

  34. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 7 years ago

    OK. smile

  35. Misha profile image74
    Mishaposted 7 years ago

    Yoshi, sorry, I can read such long posts. To answer the title question - atheists are created the same way as theists, by conception smile

  36. profile image51
    Precious100posted 7 years ago

    An Atheist is an unbeliever! The scripture which is the Word of God say, All unbelievers shall have there part in the lake of fire. An  Atheist or Unbeliever is just what it says, DO NOT BELIEVE IN GOD OR DO NOT BELIEVE HE EXIST. The Devil believe there is (1) one God and he trembles. So what about man--Why does he trick/deceive man into believing there is no God? He believes there is a Creator/God. He is scared. He is a liar. He was a liar from the raw/beginning?..If one is an unbeliever...he is already doomed for the lake! I wouldn't want to take a chance with my one Soul. It's only one of me and I must believe God at his word.

    1. tantrum profile image60
      tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      lol
      I'm on my way to the 'lake'
      And enjoying ! lol

    2. chukra G profile image58
      chukra Gposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      ask your deep inside it will tells how you pretend or lying to yourself/others in the name of false intelligent.

  37. profile image0
    Hikikomoriposted 7 years ago

    Aren't people born atheists?

    1. chukra G profile image58
      chukra Gposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      no they are just being addresed by the religionist, they are the founder.

  38. ddsurfsca profile image72
    ddsurfscaposted 7 years ago

    just like the rest of us, a little bit of this slimey added to a little of that slimey and bingo

 
working