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Is it really true that God exist?

  1. accofranco profile image83
    accofrancoposted 8 years ago

    If your answer is yes,what is your proof.And then which religion is the true religion and which one is false and why do you think so?

    1. profile image0
      sandra rinckposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      hmmm... the only religion I see as false is a culture lead by material wealth and possessions.... then again, they don't call it a religion themselves now do they???  hmm... lol therefore I do declare that the religion is false. smile)

      Proof that God exist is because I seen it.  Of course this doesn't fly as proof to non believers... then again a million people could witness a miraculous event and it still wouldn't be proof to a non believer. 

      So proof that God exist, as written in the Bible is from knowing that the Bible already told me that God does not exist to people who do not believe in God.  Both sides are correct.

      God does not exist to a non believer and God does exist to a believer. *zoinks, I am bugged eyed* uh oh, I feel as though Mr. Knowles will be here shortly to call me ignorant or something. big_smile

      ptsss.  Mark before you reply... sorry I called you liar.... but God exist. smile)

      1. Williamjordan profile image59
        Williamjordanposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        I truly believe that God exist,because when I cried out to him about my addiction he heard my cry. I do not how ever believe 100 percent in organzie religion. I believe and spirituality where once a person believes that God has been revealed to him he helps others by showing them that God will do the same for them it's been working in my life.

    2. mohitmisra profile image60
      mohitmisraposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Like the Buddha said when asked for proof about his enlightenment- "Nature is my witness."

      God exists.

      All religions are true and good. smile

      http://hubpages.com/hub/Religionspoem

    3. top victor profile image58
      top victorposted 8 years agoin reply to this
    4. Trsmd profile image61
      Trsmdposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Because Just now I saw him crossing the Road... I thought of calling you.. by that time he has become invisible..

    5. apeksha profile image60
      apekshaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I don't know that God exists here on earth or not
      But I can say that there is a natural power which controls all the things on earth.
      As gravity, wind,solar system, planetary positions,water up n down sreams depending on moon position..We know that there nust be a scientific reason..
      But we people call that GOD..

  2. Mark Knowles profile image61
    Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago

    Apology accepted. big_smile

    Although - either god exists or not and you have not seen god, you have seen what you consider to be proof enough for you that a god exists. If it was actual proof, we would not even be having this discussion. What that proof was I have no idea. A tree? That could not have come into existence without a god making it so? I don't know.

    By your argument that god exists for you, but not for me, you are implying that a god exists purely in one's imagination. Therefore you are not ignorant. You have, in fact hit the nail on the head. big_smile

    1. BDazzler profile image82
      BDazzlerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I don't believe in imagination ... I think that's only something that exists in your head!! tongue

      1. Mark Knowles profile image61
        Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        No - you are imagining it. wink

        1. BDazzler profile image82
          BDazzlerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Yes, I imagine so. wink

    2. profile image0
      sandra rinckposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I imagine that you are a real person, but in reality you only exist by the words you chose as to describe the person you say that you are. 

      Now, Monsieur show me you are real and no part of what you imagined yourself to be to me... excuse me, I mean your aren't part of my imagination.

      I simply need more proof that you are not part of my imagination...

      *story time* smile

      Says another on behalf of Mark,  yes this man is real, I have seen him with my own eyes...

      No says the skeptical one who has only seen but some pictures that could or could not be the actual person... I simply cannot take your word for it, that this is a real living person. 

      Says the man on Marks behalf... but there are others who have also seen him and know him.

      Sure says the non believer, I never seen him myself therefore he does not exist.

      Says the man on behalf of Mark... well he exist to me and you must be insane because clearly this man exist.  I have seen him with my own eyes and you have seen his words and his pictures and he has even responded to your questions. 

      the skeptical one replies... it is quite an imagination you have. 

      says Tommy Boy... you can get a good look at a butchers as*... no wait... I mean, you can get a good look at a cows by sticking your head up a butchers... no,no,no I mean you can get a good look at a t-bone steak by sticking your head up the cows as* but wouldn't you rather take the butchers word for it. big_smile

      No seriously, Mark I totally understand that God doesn't exist to you.  I wont say anything more about it except that a spoon full of God makes life a little sweeter. smile

      1. Mark Knowles profile image61
        Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Any sweeter and I would die of sugar poisoning. smile

        1. profile image0
          sandra rinckposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          well ya got me there, God did say kill um with kindness. smile  lol

      2. BDazzler profile image82
        BDazzlerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        My working theory is that he's actually a virtual person created by BT Evilpants.

        1. Misha profile image77
          Mishaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Well, I actually talked to him on the phone, and saw him on a webcam. I would conclude that even that he looks much more Turkish on the webcam, he probably exists. smile

          1. BDazzler profile image82
            BDazzlerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Within Sandy's analogy you are now a prophet of Mark Knowles! lol lol

            1. Mark Knowles profile image61
              Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Finally, some one gets it big_smile

  3. livelonger profile image95
    livelongerposted 8 years ago

    I believe the only truly honest answer to that question is, "we don't know."

    1. Abhishek87 profile image62
      Abhishek87posted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Agreed, that definitely is the truth, however you may debate.

  4. BDazzler profile image82
    BDazzlerposted 8 years ago

    Beer exists.
    USA 100 dollar bills exist therefore Ben Franklin existed.
    Ben Frankin is a recongized authority on Beer.

    Beer is the proof of God's existance and His nature.

    Therefore God exists.

    The true religion?  Well there's this whol schism between light beer drinkers and imported beer drinkers.  It's quite complicated.

    I don't like beer but I like wine and Jack and fine bourbon.

    So ... I may be a heathen according to Ben Franklin.

    big_smile

    1. Sufidreamer profile image81
      Sufidreamerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      mad

      Heretic - everybody knows that Ouzo is the only true way.

      Off to stoke up the fire ready to grill me a bourbon drinking unbeliever.

      1. BDazzler profile image82
        BDazzlerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        How about some nice steaks instead? Trust me they would be much more tastey!

        I bit my own tounge once and it didn't taste all that good.  Come to think of it, I couldn't taste anything for a while. tongue ... see?

        1. Sufidreamer profile image81
          Sufidreamerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          lol lol lol

          You are safe - I am the vegetarian version of Hannibal Lecter. I like to torture carrots before I eat them...at least I think that is what the missus said about my cooking. wink

          1. BDazzler profile image82
            BDazzlerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Holy cow Future Me!  Not only do I turn politcally liberal, I become a vegetarian?  AHHHRRRR I must know what happened with the ducks? I must stop this terrible tragedy at all costs!!!

            1. Sufidreamer profile image81
              Sufidreamerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              That's nothing - wait until the world bourbon and cigar shortage kicks in. Tough times ahead, I am afraid. sad

  5. Misha profile image77
    Mishaposted 8 years ago

    LOL I baptize you guys and gals, leave in peace smile

  6. Inspirepub profile image79
    Inspirepubposted 8 years ago

    I, too have heard the dulcet tomes of M. Mark Knowles on the phone.

    Can I be High Priestess?

    Jenny

    1. BDazzler profile image82
      BDazzlerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I think the prophet will allow it ... he seems to dig the pretty girls!

      1. Mark Knowles profile image61
        Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Ask and ye shall receive big_smile  Contributions to the usual address............

    2. Misha profile image77
      Mishaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      How could I deny anything to The Goddess of Love? Sure you can! smile

  7. AgingtoPerfection profile image59
    AgingtoPerfectionposted 8 years ago

    It seems that everyone who has replied to this question has their own "views," and if you don't truly know the Lord, then one can only find answers through their mind, emotions and  experience.

    The one place that most people don't look for God is found in the Bible.  If one truly reads the Word of God, they will soon discover that "knowing about Him" or "speculating" is not the same as "knowing Him."  What an awesome privilege that we can come to know "The King of Kings and Lord of Lords."  To know Him is to tap into what life is all about, what our purpose for being here is, and what real love is -- for God is Love.

    Today many people don't have a clue what love is and it's because they don't know God.  Thus, anything goes, and life ends up empty and without meaning.

    The Bible says that God has a plan for each of our lives, but if we don't know Him, we can only live out the imaginations of our own soul, heart and mind.

    Knowing God is not  "head knowledge" but "heart knowledge."

    In the book of John, beginning in  Chapter 3,the Bible clearly states that "Except a man be born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God." " That which is "born of the flesh is flesh" and that which is "born of the "Spirit" is spirit."  Thus, the term "born again," comes into play

    Jesus was talking to a Jewish Pharisee (a ruler of the Jews) who privately came to Him for the Jewish leader knew there was something about Jesus that he didn't understand, yet wanted to understand, because of Jesus' power and presence.  These Jewish leaders were very "religious," which is what a lot of people are today, but they didn't "know God."

    After all, Jesus was God in the flesh..  Finishing up Chapter 3, one will come to understand what it takes to set aside "religion," and come to know the One Triune God who is one through God the Father, Jesus the Son and the Holy Spirit

    In order to know if God truly exists, one has to ask the Lord into his/her heart, where all the issues of life originate.  Thus, the heart is more than an organ, but it becomes a place where the Lord dwells and directs ones mind, heart and emotions, to become a "new man," or "new woman,"  This is a gift from God to those who long to know Him.  And it is He that directs our paths, but if we choose to irgnore Him in unbelief, then the Bible is dismissed as words written by man.

    While man did write the Bible, the Lord empowered these men to wiite His Word, and if one reads the Bible, it is apparent that all chapters come together and show the beginning and the end of life.  The Bible even speaks of what is going on today and how it will all end upon His return.

    It is only through His POWER and His UNDERSTANDING that each of us who invite him intour our hearts can come to understand  and believe the Word of God, because He lives inside of us directing us.

    Just because you don't believe, doesn't mean He doesn't exist.

    It's truly awesome and very real.  There is a GOD! who longs to have His children know,love and understand what true life is all about!

    1. Mark Knowles profile image61
      Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      And just because you DO believe - doesn't mean he does. wink

    2. SparklingJewel profile image78
      SparklingJewelposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Very lovely ATP! big_smile
      God is only as personal to us as we believe He is personal to us. God is also impersonal in that many things are left up to us to do, and through trial and error is the Way of God found. big_smile

      1. AEvans profile image79
        AEvansposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Finally a true answer, no arguing just the love flowing...smile

  8. Leah Wingert profile image72
    Leah Wingertposted 8 years ago

    "The heavens declare the glory of God;
           the skies proclaim the work of his hands" Psalms 19:1

    1. accofranco profile image83
      accofrancoposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        May the infinite mercy of God be with you now,tommorrow and forever.I didn't hear you say.....?

  9. Mezo profile image70
    Mezoposted 8 years ago

    Well, then who made us? who made the sky, the earth , other planets, galaxies, who made all this? Big Bang? All of this happened by accident or as a fault of nature? Excuse me, scientifically this is totally wrong..

    when the level of some substances increase or decrease in your blood by about 1 microgram, you get sick...if the sun moves a few centemeters closer to earth we would burn, such balance couldn't be a fault or a chance

    everything is a proof that God exists because everything....was CREATED by him.

    1. Paraglider profile image95
      Paragliderposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      A few centimeters and we would burn ???  lol

      What about the eccentricity of the Earth's elliptical orbit?

  10. Mezo profile image70
    Mezoposted 8 years ago

    Lo0ol..that's nice paraglider..maybe it needs more than a few centimeters or even meters, i dunno, i've heard this somewhere and it doesn't have to true...so I may be wrong in this one but sure a change in this distance would affect the tempratue, tide and climate..that's for sure...maybe im wrong about the meters thing!

    BUT...as you said,,,,there's an orbit..for every planet, ecentricity, orbit velocity, Moment of inertia, Gravitational Constant..... there's ORDER...it's organised...there are formulas to caculate these numbers and distances and such things..it's not just random and that's why i meant in the first place.


    if what i sad first was wrong, sorry for the scientific fault!

    1. Mark Knowles profile image61
      Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      LOL

      So you use something as proof for your god, but when that turns out to be wrong - it doesn't matter? lol

      And Paraglider said no such thing.

      What you really mean to say is that you believe in a god for no good reason, therefore everything that works must have been created by this god.

      As for it being organized and not just random, there have been many instances of planets colliding:

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 … 164646.htm

      Let me guess - god's pre-ordained will - not bad design? lol

    2. Paraglider profile image95
      Paragliderposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Well, I've been out for a few hours, but... your few centimeters is actually more like 3,000,000 miles difference between summer and winter. The eccentricity is about 3%. The funny thing is that because of inclination of the principal axis, and the fact that the Earth is an oblate sphere, in the Northern Hemisphere summer occurs when we are farthest from the sun and winter when we are closest. Meanwhile, I'll say nothing about your one trillion to one inaccuracy in eulogising God''s perfection, OK?

      Now, isn't it just possible that the reason we are having this discussion is simply that we happen to have evolved on one of the many but vastly separated planets where the conditions were right for organic life to arise? Yes, there are trillions of places in the universe where the conditions are not right, but we could hardly have appeared there, could we?

      And we were not here when the planet was white hot.
      And we'll not be here when it's cold, or when the sun goes supernova and engulfs us. So be grateful for your little window of opportunity, but don't thank god for it. 'He' had nothing to do with it. We are not the centre of anything. We are as dust. To dust we shall return. Have a nice night wink

  11. accofranco profile image83
    accofrancoposted 8 years ago

    I am happy to see some folks believe in the true one God,whose only son is Jesus Christ,who saved us all from sin and imperfection.It is my prayer that he meet some of u as he met Saul on his way to Damascus.May u all live in peace.

    1. Mark Knowles profile image61
      Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Tell me about the juju dolls that your people use to ward off bullets again. I liked that one better. lol

  12. Mezo profile image70
    Mezoposted 8 years ago

    Wow, Mr.Mark....an astronaut? big_smile So you just want to proof your point of view by saying that because someone said a wrong info ...your are right!

    planet colloids huh? why didn't the earth "colloid" untill now? Planets colliod, so what? is that a proof that there's no God? New stars vanish every while...humans die, cars hit each other? Is that your proof that God doesn't exist? funny

    It's in order and it's organised...ask a doctor how each enzyme in your body have a specific functio and a certain level in your blood that will cause a disease if deviated anywhere from it's normal range ( know about this one, i study medicine)...

    Well I think the question is NOT if he exists or not...

    Let me ask you a question mr.Mark : Who made us?..Not God? (no such thing, you think) ok then who? You didn't create yourself, you didn't exist before you were born, you didn't choose the way you were created, who choose it? I hope you answer this question from a non-astrological point of view smile lol

    1. Mark Knowles profile image61
      Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      My point was that you were using the distance between the sun and the earth as proof that your god exists.

      Not really sure what you are saying, but you seem to be saying that nothing can occur without being created or made by some person. Which proves that there is a god. Is that right?

      And I am the way I am after millions of years of evolution. But I guess you could say my parents "created" me.

  13. Mezo profile image70
    Mezoposted 8 years ago

    aha...evolution! how could parents create anything! Humans can't create anything, sir.

    Did the sun evolute too?

    1. Mark Knowles profile image61
      Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      LOL

      Answer my question please. And yes - stars come into being and die all the time.

  14. Mezo profile image70
    Mezoposted 8 years ago

    and of course i meant : can't create anything from scratch..not even a mosquito

  15. Mezo profile image70
    Mezoposted 8 years ago

    the sun just came into being! just out of the blue, the big glowing star came into being, by itself! (it's radius is 695,500 kilometers), approximately 109 times the earth's radius))!!

    What is your question exactly? I'll give a simple example...we can manufacture a robot, right? so we (creater) made a robot (let's say creature)..the robot didn't create itself, ok?

    Are we and robot's alike? NO....maybe they can automatically do somethings better than us (and we programmed them in first place..) but are we alike? do robots have a soul?emotions ?dreams? feelings? instincts? no..the creater is sure to be superior to the creature...

    So yes, everything you see is created by God.

    1. Mark Knowles profile image61
      Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      OK - so how did you come to the conclusion that everything must have been made by some one? And that some one must be a god?

      Surely not because we can make a robot? I am sure you can see the difference between a man made thing like a robot and a star?

  16. Leah Wingert profile image72
    Leah Wingertposted 8 years ago

    Mezo, respect.  This will just degenerate into random name calling. Back yourself up with both science and scripture. Then leave it alone, we all have the right to our beliefs, right, wrong or confused.

    1. accofranco profile image83
      accofrancoposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      You are very right Leah,but it pains me that after all these sufferings on Earth,some people will lose their life,body,soul and spirit,what a terrifying thing.I'm sorry if any of u still don't know the true God by name,may he reveal himself to all of u out there doubting his existence.Peace!

      1. Leah Wingert profile image72
        Leah Wingertposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        I know, it's painful and it hurts but all we can do is what we have been commanded to.  It's the whole you can lead a horse to water thing.  You can lead others to the gospel, it's their job to drink of it.

        1. accofranco profile image83
          accofrancoposted 8 years agoin reply to this

             I got you ma,peace be unto you all! And may the good lord reveal himself to those that are doubting his existence as the true God! May he also show mercy on them.

  17. Mezo profile image70
    Mezoposted 8 years ago

    Leah, thanks for the advice...I respect everyone else's opnions and believs and yes yo are right about backing myself. But I didn't intend to insult anyone here, no  disrespect or name calling, I apologize if anybody got hurt...

    You know what? It's useless to answer a thread titled "is there a God or no", Every person has his own belief and believes he's right and anyone else is wrong, it's what it's...So I think all these can be only considered as personal opinions because right and wrong can be relative.....If anyone believed in something for 40 years or so, even if it was wrong, nothing will change this, specially a forum thread.

    Respect and peace to you all.

  18. LondonGirl profile image85
    LondonGirlposted 8 years ago

    COming on to hubpages, the sheer denial of science, avoidance of fact, and poor arguments against real discoveries has astonished me. I begin to see why American scientists rail against the age of unreason.

    I grew up with one parent who is a devoted Anglican. Member of the Parochial Church Council, member of the Church Choir, goes to church 2-3 times a week, took all four of us to services and Sunday School, attends Bible classes, all the rest of it.

    I also grew up with one parent who was a geologist / geographer, fascinated by evolution, science, the wonder of physics and the universe.

    Both of the above are my mother. She doesn't need to stick her head in the scientific sand in order to have a deep and profound faith.

    There are a few crackpots in the UK who deny evolution, etc. None of them are serious Church leaders of any sort, as far as I know. America was at the head of the queue when anti-reason was being handed out.....

    1. Mark Knowles profile image61
      Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      One of the reasons there is a growing rationalist movement is the return to this bronze age thinking. Check out Richard Dawkins' site - http://richarddawkins.net/

      He was prompted by the government's decision to turn over some education to private religious schools in London that are now teaching religion as science to start his secularist society.

    2. accofranco profile image83
      accofrancoposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        I am Anglican too,and my dad is a knight.

  19. Mezo profile image70
    Mezoposted 8 years ago

    I believe in science and I believe that the more you know in science (take medicine for example) the more you discover more an more things that you still dunno yet.....I really believe in the ability of science to make things we have never thought it could come true to really come true...

    But there are some moments that scientists, geologists and doctors know their abilitie as humans are limited there...they can't find a cure for HIV now BUT THEY WILL FIND ONE IN THE FUTURE

    BUT they can't prevent death...can't prevent aging...
    Can't prevent a volcano or an earth quake..
    Science can't prevent planets from collision

    ================================================================

    For Mr.Mark : you said ((((OK - so how did you come to the conclusion that everything must have been made by some one? And that some one must be a god? ))))

    I came into that conclusion because every [Thing] must has a creater and didn't occur by chance or create itself....God created it..This is my answer..

    Now could you please answer my question? How can you say the sun just came into being by itself? We just happened to (be) and that's it? We evoluted.....from what? Where did the thing we evoluted from come from?!

    1. Mark Knowles profile image61
      Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Well that doesn't really answer my question. I asked how you came to the conclusion that everything must have a creator. Not to repeat that everything must have a creator.

      The Sun came into being some when after the Big Bang (which was first proposed by a Catholic priest) as matter gravitationally attracted other matter forming, amongst other celestial bodies, gas clouds, stars and galaxies. We have actually witnessed and recorded the formation of stars in the Orion Nebula - the process involves the collapse of molecular clouds and dust into plasma.

      http://usm.maine.edu/planet/Orion%20Nebula.jpg

      Whether a god did it is another question. Which brings me back to the question I asked you -

      How did you come to the conclusion that everything must have been created by some one - and that some one must be a god?

      1. AEvans profile image79
        AEvansposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Why is it, people ask the same question but in different forms? Mark can you create a topic that is refreshing as so many of these are becoming stale and exhausting. No disrespect to the party who posted, but honestly they are becoming rather stale. People need to look at some of the past threads, before starting a new thread with the same questions, creativity is the key.big_smile   How about how the flying spaghetti monster came about???? lolololo big_smile

        1. Mark Knowles profile image61
          Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          I have no idea. I didn't start this one - but I am genuinely interested in his thought process. i.e. - How did he come to his conclusion that everything MUST have been created.. There must be some sort of rationale involved and I wonder what it is.

          Everyone knows the Flying Spaghetti Monster was there at the beginning of time. In fact - He created time. Ramen smile

  20. Mezo profile image70
    Mezoposted 8 years ago

    I dunno am I too vague or it's my horrible English?

    for the 3rd time my answer is~:

    Q) How did you come into the conclusion that everything must have a creator?
    A) How logically and rationally possible that everything just came into being? I came to that inclusion because it doesn't make sense to say that evrything just happened by accedent, by itself!

    Is that clear enough? I'm confused because you are treating me like if you are treating a retarded person , lol! why is it so hard to get what I'm saying! Let's be rational, if I told you that your glasses just came out of nowhere into being would that make sense to you, sir?

    And big bang, ok.....who made the big bang? who made the "matter" and dust and clouds?.....just came into being? It doesn't make sense to me just like the glasses thing!

    1. Mark Knowles profile image61
      Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I am not treating you like a retarded person. I just wanted to know your rationale. Which is still unclear to me. It makes sense to you that we were created by a god. That is it. No rationale. This is the only thing you can accept because..... well, it is the only thing that makes sense. It is not possible that something spontaneously came into being - naturally.  big_smile

      Although - you being a medical student, I am sure you are familiar with the various congenital defects we humans are born with.

      The fact that 25-50% of pregnancies result in miscarriage.

      The fact that 75% of Americans need eyeglasses to see correctly after being born with defective vision.

      The fact that we human males carry our reproductive organs outside our body where they are at risk so as to keep them cool - because our internal body temperature is too high?

      I would have thought some all-powerful designer would have come up with a better design.

      Don't you?

      1. Staci-Barbo7 profile image79
        Staci-Barbo7posted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Mark,

        First, I'm a fan of your writing on HubPages.

        Second, I can honestly say that I don't find any room for improvement in God's design of the male physique. I think everything is in the most appropriate place possible, and I can't conceive of a more beautiful and powerful design than the original "model" from the manufacturer. big_smile

        I do believe the original model has suffered a few design corruptions - DNA gone astray - over the course of time.  Despite this, the human body is still the most magnificent example of engineering we have. 

        Consider - we are the most intelligent beings on this planet, yet we have not been able to design a machine that comes close to the complexity of the human body or mind, nor have we been able to bestow the simplest machine with sentience. 

        Wouldn't it take someone - or something - vastly more intelligent than us to design:

        - the human body to work and function for an average of seventy years as incredibly as it does (more if the owner takes care of it and is fortunate)? 

        - a being that possesses an intelligence beyond that of the animals?

        - a being that actively seeks and yearns to connect with its creator?

        In the latter two ways, we are distinct from the animals and are given the ability to recognize and appreciate the immensity of the creation within and all around us.  We are able to acknowledge that we are finite in our knowledge, in the power to influence others around us, and even in our ability to determine our own destinies. 

        When we come to that place, we naturally desire to connect with One who has the strength, knowledge, and power we do not possess.

        I can tell you of my personal experience.  At times in my life, I have struggled, always believing that He was there, but not knowing what exactly to believe about Him or how to best cultivate a relationship with Him. Depending on the season in my life, I have believed Him to be by turns -

        good and kind,
        angry and withholding,
        punitive,
        rewarding,
        my Teacher, 
        my Comforter,
        my Healer, and
        the Deliverer of my life.

        I have found that when I have not lived according to the principles I believe He has placed in my heart, I have been unhappy, lacked peace, and felt Him to be far from me. 

        In the times when I have sought Him without reservation (usually because it was the only option left open to me), I have experienced a deep peace that is difficult to convey to others, and I have seen Him move on my behalf in ways that I can only describe as "awesome." 

        Twice in my life I have experienced literal protection from imminent death when I called upon Him to help me.

        This kind of involvement and power in our lives is available to us when we ask Him.   

        Each one must choose for himself whether to believe, or not to believe, in a Creator.  If you choose to believe in ever so small a degree, He will reveal Himself to you.

        1. RFox profile image73
          RFoxposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          I must say that I always find it amazing how we assume things about animals that may or may not be true.

          How do you know that we are more intelligent than animals?
          Just because a creature is designed physically with different bodies and instincts does not indicate its level of intelligence.

          Also, how do you know that animals are unaware of the 'immensity of creation'?

          I have worked closely with animals for a number of years. I have seen them during times of extreme stress and suffering and I have held them at the moment of their death. These experiences and the way I have seen animals react at these times does not allow me to ever make assumptions about what an animal understands or is 'aware of'.

          I have also seen incredible feats of selfless heroism by animals who risked their own lives to save another creature (who may or may not have any connection to them personally).

          It is against an animals basic survival instinct (flight or fight response) to lay down its life for another creature that is not part of its immediate family and yet this happens quite a lot.

          How do you explain such things?

          I don't presume to know what an animal thinks or feels only that it does think and feel just as we do. 

          And by your argument: God designed humans but not animals. So, where did all the animals come from?

          1. Staci-Barbo7 profile image79
            Staci-Barbo7posted 8 years agoin reply to this

            As I said, I believe God is the Creator of all things - human, non-human life, our world, our universe.  Of course, this includes the animals. Animals are a wonderful part of our world. I also believe that animals possess an innate intelligence - and that they are capable of forming real attachments / bonds to other animals and to humans. 

            My comparison is specifically concerning the DEGREE of intelligence, which I consider comprises the degree to which one can comprehend, learn, interact with, and influence the world around him or her.  In this regard, man's intelligence is greater than that of animals.

            My intent was to point out that the Creator has uniquely gifted humans with the ability to want to know Him and connect with Him.  He invites us to develop a relationship with Him.  He cares for us and moves on our behalf when we ask Him.

            1. calebd profile image55
              calebdposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              If your premise is that degree of intelligence is what separates man from animals, you'd best be prepared to call severely mentally challenged folk animals. You'd believe that anyone unable to comprehend, learn, interact with and influence the world in an intelligent manner is animalistic. Of course, you probably don't believe those things but then you'll find your beliefs internally inconsistent.

              How does it follow that our "gift" of wanting to know god was given to us? Could it not be evolved? Research seems to indicate that a specific area of the brain is interested in epiphanies and spirituality and so forth. However, it isn't interested in the christian god specifically. Research also indicates our brains evolved certain functions to greater or lesser degree. Therefore, there is no gift. I'd be interested to see how you can arrive at a different conclusion from the above premises/facts?

              1. earnestshub profile image87
                earnestshubposted 8 years agoin reply to this
        2. Mark Knowles profile image61
          Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Thanks - glad you enjoy my writing smile

          Unlike you - I am unable to read animal's minds - so I cannot claim to be different to them in any way. I do wish I could lift the equivalent body weight ratio that ants can lift or run as fast proportional to their size as cheetahs.

          Although - I am with Douglas Adams on this one - I think the dolphins are the superior species. They seem to have a lot more fun than we do but without the incessant fighting.

          But you seem to be saying that we are not animals. I don't know what to say to that.

          As for your comments on the perfection of the design, the very fact that you think there have been some "design corruptions" along the way means it is not perfect. I have no particular interest in worshiping something that cannot make a perfect design.

          Not a big fan of the idea that if I just believe in something it will become true for me.

          Nor am I going to list for you the brushes with death I have had or the epiphanies I have come to or the peace I have found when I stop fighting with myself.

          Needless to say - I give myself credit for those time, just as I give myself the responsibility when I am not at peace, or get hurt.

          I do not wish to detract from my good parts or fail to give myself credit where it is due by attributing them to some one else.

          Although - if you look at that list of things you have found your god to be - that rather sums up what I have found myself - and other people to be. Odd that - don't you think? wink

          1. Staci-Barbo7 profile image79
            Staci-Barbo7posted 8 years agoin reply to this

            I wasn't referring to a subjective "truth" for me because it works for me.  Assuming a universal truth, one can only discover it for oneself once when he / she becomes willing to entertain that it may be truth and search it out to prove or disprove it.  That implies a genuine openness to the particular truth in question.

            I did not convey my thoughts on my "list" of God's characteristics as well as I wanted to.  My experience of God in my life has been directly correlated to the degree that I was connected to Him. At times when I have sought Him, He appeared to me to be

            good and kind,
            rewarding,
            my Teacher, 
            my Comforter,
            my Healer, and
            the Deliverer of my life. 

            When I remained closed to Him - usually out of an unwillingness to hear Him, He seemed to me to become

            angry and withholding, and
            punitive.

            I wish to convey that regardless of a momentary belief or disbelief in His goodness, my willingness or unwillingness to hear Him, He has always been there. 

            My experience (my list of character traits) of God flows in proportion to my pursuit of His presence and His truth. It was when I have temporarily stayed - or rejected - my pursuit of Him and His truth that I perceived a God that APPEARS to be uncaring and uninvolved with the matters that concern me.  At all times that I was open to His presence and His truth, I knew that He was involved in my life and that He cared for me.   

            He has always been there.  At the times He seemed distant, it was I who pulled away.

            As to our design, I believe it was perfect.  When we remove ourselves from the Source of perfection, over time, we become imperfect. In turn, imperfect beings produce other imperfect beings. I believe the converse holds true, as well.  I believe a strong connection to the Source strengthens us not only in spirit, but in our bodies and minds.

            1. Mark Knowles profile image61
              Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              I cannot make the leap of faith required to assume that there is a universal truth.

              Although - what you seem to be saying is that your subjective truth is the universal truth. But please feel free to prove it to me. And no - I will not make a leap of faith and start believing what you believe, because my subjective truth is - I have connected to what I think you are calling god and there is no purpose, no planned design and no requirement on this god's part that we reach out and develop a relationship with him. In fact - there is no him. You are giving him a name which is not needed, or required. You have arbitrarily decided that man's intelligence is greater than all the other animal's and this god cares about us and moves on our behalf when we ask him to.

              I would suggest that most wild animals have a far stronger connection that we do.

              I understood what you are saying. I think you are wrong. All these traits are dependent on your being connected and aware of yourself. Not some outside entity.

              Well, I can only hazard a guess that you do not possess testicles, because if I was going to make a perfect design, I would not have left them exposed on the outside. smile

              And I am connected to what you call the "source" but I do not need to give it a personality or a purpose. Or imagine that I am some how more intelligent than all the other animals or been charged with some task.

              Do you believe that we are not animals?

  21. Mezo profile image70
    Mezoposted 8 years ago

    More explanation on my very vague opinion that no one seems to understands (or again it's my horrible language)

    The (logic/rationale) :

    When I see some (thing)...let's say matter, sun,big bang, human, anything, and think about how did it happen or where did it come from the options are:

    1-Somebody created it.
    2-It created itself.
    3-whoooaaaa it just happened!

    well...2 and three makes no sense to me... (well, to me!)...that's it...how hard was that?


    Now can someone tell me what is the flying spaghetti?big_smile

  22. Toronto12 profile image55
    Toronto12posted 8 years ago

    I don't think anyone can prove that he does exist, but at the same time I don't think anyone can prove that god doesn't exist.  I'm not religious, but I thought that religious is just a parody of astrology, and that the sun is God.

  23. LondonGirl profile image85
    LondonGirlposted 8 years ago

    Teeth. You missed out a defininte design flaw there (-:

  24. Mezo profile image70
    Mezoposted 8 years ago

    Mr. Mark my rationale is still not clear?!!!!!! did you really see my last 2 posts? I'm not someone who is just convinced without a reason

    can you please answer my question? ((((It is not possible that something spontaneously came into being - naturally.))))

    Does this make sense to you, sir? we just came naturally? EVERYTHING just happened by chance! is that your rationale? please tell me if i am wrong.

    and your proof that God doesn't exist is bcause we have congenital anomalies and most of us have flaws..is that a proof that God didn't exist? Well, as I said the creater is diff from the creature...he's perfect NOT us...we are just humans, we have defects, we have flaws. In normal situations women just deliver babies...but there has to be some abortions,congenital anomalies, diseases because this is not the heaven, it's earth and we are humans.
    And he chose that image for us, you didn't choose it, neither did I, which might mean that you don't really have a choice.


    Paraglider:
    Is that a proof that God doesn't exist? It doesn't proof anything really.

    Thank my small window of opportunity? So you depend on the same logic that says that it all happened by chance...just like that, when "nature" adjusted itself and it's oxygen and carbon dioxixde levels in the air, we had the opportunity to "be" so we did!



    Do you guys really think that we just came out (naturally) and (by chance) this is your perfect logic and rationale?

    1. Mark Knowles profile image61
      Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      No - your rationale is not clear. All you have said is that everything MUST have been created. I understand that is what you think - but why?

      What makes you come to that conclusion?

      Of course it is possible that something can come into being naturally. Without a creator. I see it all the time. We watch stars form.

      As to the other argument -

      If there was some one designing things - don't you think they could have done a better job?

      You know - like made our eyes work properly? Make sure that all pregnancies came to term? Ensure that there were no congenital defects?

      I would never have designed us with our testicles on the outside - would you?

      1. mohitmisra profile image60
        mohitmisraposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Whats preventing you from redesigning yourself.Sorry but its lack of intelligence.What God has. smile You have intelligence yet its not enough.

        1. Mark Knowles profile image61
          Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          You are missing my point - which was that putting the testicles on the outside is a lousy design. smile

    2. earnestshub profile image87
      earnestshubposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      At least MArk and Paraglider have a rationale! Believing in a perfect invisible friend who created an imperfect world makes no sense at all!How can an Omnipotent omniscient being let infants die a horrible death. Your loaded question says it all. Religion is bullshit!

    3. Paraglider profile image95
      Paragliderposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Mezo - I am not trying to prove anything. Why should I? I try to understand as much as I can and when I reach the limits of my understanding I say 'I don't know' and leave the question open. You prefer to close it by adopting a belief. Your choice, not mine. But you should recognise a belief for what it is, and refrain from insisting it is 'the truth'.

  25. Misha profile image77
    Mishaposted 8 years ago

    ROFLMAO, I definitely wouldn't lol

    1. Mark Knowles profile image61
      Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      LOL

      Exactly - what sort of designer is that?

  26. Mezo profile image70
    Mezoposted 8 years ago

    You want everyting to be just perfect? ============> utopia

    1. Mark Knowles profile image61
      Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I want no such thing. Everything is not perfect. Which leads me to believe it was not "designed" or "created" because it is such a lousy job. When I create something - I make it as perfect as I can. But if I was omnipotent - I would have made it perfect. Wouldn't you?

      Now answer the questions please.

      1. accofranco profile image83
        accofrancoposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Wonderful arguments going on here,quite informative and enjoyable too.Kudos! To you all.

      2. SparklingJewel profile image78
        SparklingJewelposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        There can be no perfection in this world, because we believe we are imperfect. Because we were originally created perfect, which endowed us with that "knowing" that we were perfect, we were perfect.
        But when souls were tricked into not believing they were perfect, they were no longer perfect...and the confusion and search, fear and doubt began.
        My point is that by free will(albeit tricked)we believe we are not perfect, that power of creation within us, endowed with free will, that Image of God, is hidden by lack of our own trust and belief.
        Bliss IS; is knowing we are perfect, but that includes not knowing we are perfect, but that we just ARE! big_smile
        The mind gets mechanized into thinking imperfection, and that only reason and rationale will prove or not prove. The mind attacks and covers up the "knowing" of the soul that is One with God, in that original image.
        Yep, it all comes back 'round to faith and belief...that feathery fluff that can not be proven with facts and figures...but, just IS. big_smile big_smile

        1. Mark Knowles profile image61
          Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          This is where we diverge of course.

          I say we just are.

          When some one says "We are perfect, therefore we must have been designed," I say - hmmm - what a lousy design - I would have put the testicles on the inside - therefore we either were designed by a lousy designer or there is no designer. 

          Many seem to persuade themselves that they must be important, therefore they must have a purpose and then need to invent something that must have given us that purpose.

          When in fact - our purpose is to be. big_smile

          But you go ahead and create a load of fluffy stuff that then leads you to believe there is a higher being and this higher being gives you instructions that you argue everyone else needs to follow. wink

  27. Mezo profile image70
    Mezoposted 8 years ago

    So you guys want evrything to be perfect and occur just as you want, so if there is a God, he has to do it the way you like or he doesn't exist...

    answer what question sir? the one about testicles? where else do you think they could be? I don't really know! I'm comfortable with them where they are, lol!

    So it's alousy job...in fact I realize that anything I type in this thread is a waste of time, you gentlemen are oriented to something and has some fixed believes that you don't want to change no matter what I say.....My logic is making sense to me , sorry if it doesn't to you! Your rationale doesn't make any sense to neither,

    I believe that someone designed and coded the web page im seeing now, no matter how ugly it is, some one created it because I know html codes doen't just happen naturally or by chance!!!

    The (logic/rationale) :

    When I see some (thing)...let's say matter, sun,big bang, human, anything, and think about how did it happen or where did it come from the options are:

    1-Somebody created it.
    2-It created itself.
    3-whoooaaaa it just happened!

    well...2 and three makes no sense to me... (well, to me!)...that's it...how hard was that?

    1. Mark Knowles profile image61
      Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      You seem to be missing my point. smile

      My point is that you started out by saying that the very perfection of how things work is what proves to you that there is a creator.

      I pointed out some pretty large imperfections and you are now saying that your creator did the best he could and sure it is not perfect but hey - he did his best.

      Which rather destroys your argument that the perfection is what proves there is a creator. smile

      And as for having fixed opinions that cannot be changed by rational, logical argument............. lol

      I still do not understand why you have concluded that there must be a creator.

      What made you come to that conclusion?

      Could it be that you just believe there is a god and this must therefore be the case?

  28. Mezo profile image70
    Mezoposted 8 years ago

    humans being imperfect means HUMANS are just humans and are not perfect, why should this mean that there is no creator?

    If we were perfect, then we would be Gods!

    1. mohitmisra profile image60
      mohitmisraposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      There is perfection in what seems like chaos.Even science is realizing it. We are just not intelligent enough to comprehend the cosmos or god in totality. smile

  29. Make  Money profile image82
    Make Moneyposted 8 years ago

    That's interesting RFox. 

    My sister has horses.  Each one of them has it's own individual personality.  They are not stupid.  The boss mare Stormy takes care of her herd.  Lexus is shy.  Bethany is mischievous.  Spirit likes to get her nose into everything.  Blue is fat but is great with the kids.  Old Lindsey (26 years) gets cut out of the herd by Stormy when they are running so she doesn't run too much, she wheezes when she does.  I've got Stormy on video cutting Lindsey out.  It's cool watching them together.  The animals were created before man.

    From Genesis 1:19 to 26  "19 And the evening and morning were the fourth day. 20 God also said: Let the waters bring forth the creeping creature having life, and the fowl that may fly over the earth under the firmament of heaven. 21 And God created the great whales, and every living and moving creature, which the waters brought forth, according to their kinds, and every winged fowl according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 And he blessed them, saying: Increase and multiply, and fill the waters of the sea: and let the birds be multiplied upon the earth. 23 And the evening and morning were the fifth day. 24 And God said: Let the earth bring forth the living creature in its kind, cattle and creeping things, and beasts of the earth, according to their kinds. And it was so done. 25 And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds, and cattle, and every thing that creepeth on the earth after its kind. And God saw that it was good. 26 And he said: Let us make man to our image and likeness: and let him have dominion over the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the air, and the beasts, and the whole earth, and every creeping creature that moveth upon the earth.

    I just read that Jesus picked a donkey to enter Jerusalem on Palm Sunday not just to show humility but because apparently donkeys are smarter than horses.  I've read a story that on Sunday when the procession past by the stable the donkey would kneel as they past every Sunday.  Psalms 148 says animals praise God.

    From http://www.webofcreation.org/Worship/se … nimals.htm

    Prayer for Pets

    Almighty and everlasting God, Creator of all things and giver of all life, let your blessing be upon all these animals. May our relationships with them mirror your love, and our care for them be an example of your bountiful mercy. Grant the animals health and peace. Strengthen us to love and care for them as we strive to imitate the love of Jesus Christ our Lord and God’s servant Francis. Amen.

    Mike

  30. accofranco profile image83
    accofrancoposted 8 years ago

    Wonderful message to us all.It is my prayer that the only true God,Jehovah be with u,your family and friends forever.Regrets abidesth with those who shall cause others to lose their faith in christ,or cause them sin.Brother speak the truth always,God will reward u.

  31. accofranco profile image83
    accofrancoposted 8 years ago

    @Stacy, infact you are a God sent.Are u a priest or a minister of God? Thank u so much.

  32. dranjesh profile image41
    dranjeshposted 8 years ago

    As we need a normal vision to see the colors and that a color blind can not see the colors, he can not say that the color does not exist. The normal perception can confirm that the colors exist.

    Similarly, for a person to confirm the existence of GOD, one has to have vision in that dimension. A person not having that vision can not conclude with the non-existence of GOD.

    Spiritual Science Research Foundation Inc. has taken up research in this direction and has conducted many experiments regarding the same. The results have been published on there website at http://www.spiritualresearchfoundation.org/

    They have also explained the methodology adapted for conducting the Spiritual Research. Please do go through and you can send me your comments at
    anjesh.k@spiritualresearchfoundation.org

    Extract from the site :

    In simple terms, spiritual research is researching the spiritual dimension or spiritual realm with the help of an advanced sixth sense (ESP). The spiritual realm is that which cannot be perceived through our five senses, mind and intellect. It includes the world of heaven, hell, angels, spirits, auras, ghosts etc.

    The source of knowledge in this website is the Universal Mind and Intellect, which is God’s mind and intellect. It is accessed through the medium of a highly advanced sixth sense.

    We have divided this section into three parts to explain the concept of spiritual research:

       1.      Objectives of spiritual research
       2.      Principles of spiritual research
       3.      Methodology of spiritual research

    1. Mark Knowles profile image61
      Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      My sixth sense is very well defined thank you. But it did not make me to conjecture a god with a personality that created us. smile

      1. SparklingJewel profile image78
        SparklingJewelposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Oh Mark, how wonderful! I can agree with you on this point big_smile sorta...    I believe God does not have personality as per humans, but we reflect onto our sense of God, so that we can feel connected.
        It is like the spectrum I have spoken of before; until we feel that we are a part of God/the Universe, which begins with our own sense of healthy ego as ability to create in the material plane, and overcome any psychology from family dysfunction, we can not believe in our own power as a manifestation of God...which is the power to step beyond the confines of the material planes.
        Our power is in our own sense of being a part of God as infinite intelligence and creative power. As humans we have personality and our expressions of positive personality are expressions of our sense of connection with God/the Universe.

        1. Mark Knowles profile image61
          Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Finally - we agree on something - sorta wink

          We humans are but the tiniest fraction of the whole. And in my connection to the whole - there is no positive/negative. I very much feel part of the Universe, although much closer to the part that is here.

          I also feel that when one starts giving it a personality that is not there - and a name - god - this leads one to say things like "God Bless our Troops," as they go off to destroy other parts of the whole.

          Which leads me to think you are mistaken in your assessment of the way in which it is appropriate to express your sense of connection with the Universe and you are only connected to the part that says "USA" on it. wink

          My personal power comes from being able to see clearly just how big a part I play in the whole.

          A grain of sand on the beach.

          1. SparklingJewel profile image78
            SparklingJewelposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Hi Mark, well we have been at this juncture before smile
            So, first off, you are not staying in the non judgmental mind space, so you are not in "God". You are being judgmental in that you think you know who I AM, where I am coming from: but you could not possibly know me. Like when I say God Bless our Troops...I am speaking a prayer in to the level of consciousness of any soul that goes forward in this material plane to protect and defend life. EVen though it is not a perfect plan overall (war, to defend life)it is better than allowing others to kill others out of hatred and anger. And there are soldiers that are in that mind space about it; but there are those that are not.
            And if we hold an "immaculate concept" for any soul that chooses to put their life on the line for others, we are supporting that soul in believing in higher things to come. It is a matter of degree. Remember, there is no perfection in this world; until we have that sense of perfection within our own mind, heart, spirit and soul...then we will ascend out of this material plane.
            An important point is that Infinite Intelligence/God knows which troops to send the Light of prayers to. Sometimes I pray for troops of USA, sometimes for all troops any country...there may even be some jihadists who are doing their killing for a higher understanding than others can see because they look at the group of jihadists as a whole of evil.
            When a person specifically prays for souls that are doing the most according to God's Will/Universal Order...we leave it up to God to make that discernment and we as human are not judging in state of imperfection and lack of vision of Truth.

            1. Mark Knowles profile image61
              Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              And this is why I judge you so.

              Because you say you know when souls are doing the most according to god's will and pray for those because you have decided that American soldiers are killing for a higher ideal.

              Not to protect the USA's overseas financial interests lol

              And who said anything about not being in a judgmental mind space? I said no such thing. I hold no particular attachment to that ideal.

              I judge things all the time. It is one of the ways I survive and make decisions.

              You are the one who has decided that to be "in God" one must be non-judgmental. wink

              I disagree.

              1. SparklingJewel profile image78
                SparklingJewelposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                Oh, I see that you have mis-judged my meaning by the statement you singled out. What I was trying to say was that because I don't know God's Will, but do believe I can leave it up to God's Will to make those decisions on where to put the Light my prayers invoked, I AM at peace having done my part by offering the prayers and leaving it up to God's Will.
                And also, I make a differentiation between judgment and discernment...judgment is thinking we know better than another or all about another, and discernment is in making choices and decisions. At least in the previous post. smile
                Yes, to be One in God I do believe that being non-judgmental (as I have stated)is a pre-requisite. I still work on that, too like everyone else.

        2. dranjesh profile image41
          dranjeshposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Great feeling to find that you are aware of our connectivity with God. There are some who are unaware of this and have found that they are the ones who tend to go into the negative side of the personality.
          The positive personalities will definitely say 'Yes God Exist - only thing is I have not been able to see Him as I dont have that vision' where as the negetive ones will say 'Uh.. God never existed - and will never agree their state of defective personality. I appriciate you and your feelings.

          To see and experience God, we need to develop that kind of vision. We have a very interesting article to this context. Hope you will not mind to go through this :

          The depth of ability to perceive paranormal activity with our sixth sense

          Do send me your comments smile

          1. Mark Knowles profile image61
            Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            No - you do not appreciate me and my feelings. Judging from the amount of links you are leaving in your forum posts and that you think I have a defective personality.LOL

            Allow me to turn it around for you in a way that makes more sense than what you just wrote.

            Those who are comfortable with their own existence and well balance do not need to invent a god.

            Those who are unhappy in their existence and need to feel that they are in some way more important than they are need to pretend there is a god looking out for them and this somehow makes them more important.

            I really appreciate your feelings even though your opinion is useless self serving rubbish. And if I see one more link to your joke site I will report you. big_smile

            1. dranjesh profile image41
              dranjeshposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              sincere thanks for you comment dear friend. I am not trying to offend you neither defend myself.. but the thing remains true that we have our own ways of understanding that energy keeping us alive and the universe ticking (i.e. GOD)..

              About the site, you may feel it a joke.. but things are true to its base...

              Anyways, I too appreciate you in my ways smile

  33. aka-dj profile image76
    aka-djposted 8 years ago

    I wonder how "scientific" this research will prove to be? big_smile

  34. Mezo profile image70
    Mezoposted 8 years ago

    loooooool I dunno why im laughing but i am!

    Well as I said about the testes thing....I REALLY like them where they are, and medically, we all know that spermatogenesis can't occur at the same body temperature...and we men having our organs inside..(oops!) ,,, well it well seem very ODD to me,,, in fact it's a birth disorder, too called (undescended testis) which can lead to infertility...

    I didn't say that "hey we are perfect so there must be God" or "God made his best".....Perfection is not what we are, we are just humans that have weaknesses and if we were perfect we would be Gods, that's what I said...

    I said there's balance, meaning if you try to change this, how your body was designed normally, something would go wrong, no matter how doctors tried to implant electronic devices as pace makers or organs transplantation, there's no complete substitution of the original created material, no matter how good are the manufactured devices or the drugs...the natural/normal organs and body parts,systems,fluids,cells are the best..

    I didn't say we are perfect...I say there's balance and any one who studied the human body, medicine for example will definitly tell you how amazing it is, there are still areas and substances in our bodies that scientists dunno it's function...the number of cells, neurons in our bodies will shock you...the fact that our heart beats about 70-90 beats per minute with a very delicate electric conduction system is amazing just as amazing as many facts about the heart, and about our bodies...imagine 70 beats per minute....multiply it by 60...then by 24..then by 365...then by your age in years..what kind of machines is that!!

    But if you were perfect, you would be God, that's why there are heart diseases and so....you have to admit that you have weaknesses, you are not perfect, you are just a tiny little living organism in comparison to this huge universe

  35. Mezo profile image70
    Mezoposted 8 years ago

    Mr.Mark, you dunno if you (we) are different from animals BECAUSE you can't read their minds? lo0l...well sir, I can't read your mind but I know we are different...

    I know I'm different from animals because I...(I can't believe we are really discussing this!) but in short: We don't do the same things that animals do...just because we eat, drink and marry doesn't mean we are animals...animals don't do maths...animals don't go to schools, don't pee/urinate in a toilet (well, some do! big_smiletongue), animals are not scientists, even the brain of the smartest monkey that can play some music notes and count nubers is not even close to be compared to a 1-day old human infant!

    ================================================================
    I'm not going to explain how I came with this conclusion for the 10th time! I already said it like 3 times, even copied and pasted it again and Mr.Mark replies with : (I still do not understand why you have concluded that there must be a creator.)

    I explained it but you sir keep replying with (so , how did you...!!)..I can't explain more..
    I didn't say perfection proves that god exists...I said we are imperfect because that's how was made and meant to be ,

    it's a conclusion reached by simple exclusion of other odds...I was created because I definitly didn't create myself, and I didn't just happen by chance....I didn't just appear from no where neither did anything (only in sci-fi movies that things just come into being or maybe because of a magical invisibility device!)...Matter and Energy didn't just create itself "naturally", so I came to the conclusion that I must have been created

    It's ok if this looks very weird to you..Each of us just seem to have his own view on things, no problem!

    Bye

    1. Mark Knowles profile image61
      Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      no - you are missing my question.

      I understand that you think we were created by a superior being. A god no less.

      I understand that you believe that:

      1. We could not possibly have come in to being by chance
      2. Organic life cannot possibly arise naturally
      3. Your parents did not create you
      4. My parents did not create me
      5. It is not possible that in an infinite number of worlds, the conditions that allow organic life to form must happen a percentage of the time
      6. We were created rather than evolved to our current condition.

      I get all that - but -

      How did you arrive at these conclusions?

  36. Misha profile image77
    Mishaposted 8 years ago

    Mark, could it be a language problem? May be you try to re-word your question?

    1. Mark Knowles profile image61
      Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Maybe. Not sure how to re-word it though. Any ideas?

  37. Hawkesdream profile image71
    Hawkesdreamposted 8 years ago

    I came in at the end of this discussion and Mezo , you seem to be so indoctrinated as to the existence of a God, a being so superior to we mere mortals , that you actually believe that you were created
    You are brainwashed dear friend, and with all due respect , the Bible was commissioned by an authority to be written. The stories contained within , each contain an ethical moral issue ,with which the authority wanted the people to behave, and this has been justified and authenticated through constant promotion.
    I apologize if I have offended anybody.

    1. Misha profile image77
      Mishaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      LOL you may or may not offended somebody, but Mezo actually is a Muslim, so Bible is hardly applicable smile

    2. accofranco profile image83
      accofrancoposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Please i would love to know more of this story,can u name or list out some or all of the "authentificators" of the bible?Thank you brother.

      1. accofranco profile image83
        accofrancoposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          As for me,based on what some folks here call "rationale" i believe that some evil spirits do exist,spirits that have the power to harm man,animal or anything,then if such a spirit exist,don't you think it is 100% right that an opposite of this spirit exist?

        1. dranjesh profile image41
          dranjeshposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Dear Friend, you are absolutely true in saying "Spirits exist - both good and bad.. " We have presented some interesting images drawn by those who have a developed sixth sense and who can actually perceive the paranormal. Please do see them at this link :

          GHOSTS - Spiritually explored

          but dear friend, it again depends on the individual to trust this and accept. Everyone can develop their subtle capacity of perception of the paranormal and confirm the things...

  38. Mezo profile image70
    Mezoposted 8 years ago

    I'm glad you understand what I'm saying....you are right..

    and it's not a language problem, Misha, i think it's more of an attitude or view points problem...how I came to this conclusion is by exclusion of other odds as I said, makes sense to me, but it doesn't make sense to you, that's all

    1. countrywomen profile image60
      countrywomenposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Mark- To rephrase the question I would say: If I don't know for sure(the origin of anything/everything) then eliminating all other possibilities then for some folks "God" seems to be the only logical conclusion left?

      Mezo- Now coming to the possibilities based on each individual's experiences, background and upbringing each individual has a different theory then logically it is not possible to eliminate all the infinite possibilities(as many people are there so many possible theories exist and all may/may not be true completely) and hence it is left up to the individual's leap of faith to complete the whole picture(based on his/her choices) of an open ended question.

      I personally neither categorically confirm nor deny God and prefer to leave it as an open ended question smile

    2. Mark Knowles profile image61
      Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      No it doesn't make sense to me and it is not really answering my question. Because what I was asking was how you eliminated the other possibilities.

      You say categorically that it is not possible for organic life to arise naturally. Despite the fact that we watch this happen all the time.

      How did you come to the conclusion that this is not possible?

      Simple - you believe in a god therefore this cannot be possible.

      1. aka-dj profile image76
        aka-djposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Examples please. big_smile

        Scientific community clueless! Just read up on what THEY are saying. hmm

        You got it exactly in reverse. "This is not possible, therefore there(could be)IS a God." big_smile (I mean, the One and Only True God). The one you have not yet met.
        You keep referring to the invented one(s) a lot. I'm not talking about that one(s). cool

        1. Mark Knowles profile image61
          Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          I'm sorry dj. I keep forgetting you are talking about the one true god and all the others are lies. wink

          Examples of life arising naturally are all around. All you have to do is open your eyes. wink

          But I am keen to know how you come to the conclusion that life cannot possibly arise naturally.

          Any time..............

          1. aka-dj profile image76
            aka-djposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            You evade the question. Examples please. big_smile
            "Anytime...... " You like facts. Science has NO solution to overcome impossibilities (with ANY theories). None, zip, nada, nishta, shemmi. (nuthin'). The scientiffically accepted laws of chemistry have to be "miraculously/magically" suspended, to make it happen.
            Start here, (your scientific education, I mean).
            http://www.asa3.org/ASA/education/origins/cheme.htm
            PS.My eyes are open.

            1. Mark Knowles profile image61
              Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Here is an example of life arising naturally:

              Stars being born:

              http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr162/lect … proto.html

              Still want to know how you come to the conclusion that it is not possible for life to arise naturally?

              1. aka-dj profile image76
                aka-djposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                You are evading the question,(again). We were talking about life on planet earth, NOT stars. Not sure you could call stars as "living".
                Read the article, and the various conjectures concerning life arising from NON life.
                http://www.asa3.org/ASA/education/origins/cheme.htm

                1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                  Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  I am well `aware of the various theories that concern life on earth. But we were talking about life - not just life on earth. Yes - I consider stars to be alive. Not in the same way we are alive, but they certainly meet many of the criteria we would use to measure life - in our admittedly limited understanding of that term.

                  Now answer my question -

                  How did you come to the conclusion that it is absolutely not possible for life to arise naturally?

  39. Mezo profile image70
    Mezoposted 8 years ago

    ok, I just wanna explain that I'm not just saying that it's true because i think it's true....I try to use reasoning..it's so simple and makes sense to me

    Is it probable that all the letters on this page unscrambled themselves by chance to form these meaningful and structured sentences? How then, could a human being - with ears, eyes and a mind - have been formed by chance? Is it credible that such a vast universe with an inestimable billions of galaxies could have evolved by accident?

    I use reasoning, I believe in observation, experiencing and logic, so it's not possible (for me!) that everything just happened as unintentional accidents and pure chance..

  40. Mezo profile image70
    Mezoposted 8 years ago

    That's right I'm a Muslim......
    I'll tell you a little secret, guys..no one knows me in reality..anyhow...I know 1 thing for sure...I'm not brain washed, my friend...

    I was raised as a Muslim, that's right, but I went through a stage in my life when I disbelieved....yes and maybe that's why I'm interesting in this discussion (I think I'm the only one who believes in a God in this topic, lol..others won't even bother discussing it.)..yes I just got bored, I dunno but maybe I wasn't convinced enough...

    But moral of the story.....I got confused then I decided that there's no God..yes, I went throgh that for ....umm let's say it was a period in my life...what happened next was so easy

    I didn't see God crossing the street, he didn't phone call me of course...I just looked at the sky one day and said to myself...How could all these things be created, happen in order and in certain patterns and percise design ALL BY PURE CHANCE and unintentioned accident?? I can't kill your son and then say : Hey, no one killed him! he just came (out) of being naturally just as he came into being by chance!.....

    The orbits of the planets and thedelictae levels of your blood compnents, the regular patterns for our heart beats can't occur and be repeated by chance!

    I know that accidents cause random things...things will happen in random ways...if something happens by chance, it won't be so organised, regular and repeated! unless chances occur every second, every minute, everyday, since billions of years and untill now....Is that even logical?

    Every action happenning there must be a....(dunno what is it called in English!) but for an action to "happen" there's some one who performed this action, right?

    (I dunno how the hell I wrote the above sentence but I can't express it in a fancy way, sorry for the horrible languae)..

    So I started from the beginning, forget about Islam and any other religion...just think, Does he really exist or not? After I though, using the "rationale" that I already wrote 10 times by now in this thread...I came into this conclusion...

  41. Mezo profile image70
    Mezoposted 8 years ago

    And btw I didn't read that stuff about God's existence anywhere, I'm not brainwashed...these are just my own thoughts and how I "reached that conclusion"....may be that's why they look so unorganised and written in a funny/lame way!

  42. aka-dj profile image76
    aka-djposted 8 years ago

    Don't sweat it Mezo. These guys have one thing going against them. They are rationalists, and as such, they have based thier worldview on the premise, that we live in a "closed" system. God does not fit into that (box) system, because there is no evidence (of the type that would satisfy them) that He exists. Therefore, the only logical conclusion has to be, "htere is no god".
    Unfortunately, they cannot prove, demonstrate, or verify, that it is indeed a "closed" sysytem. Therefore, like you, I can "logically, rationally" say, He must live OUTSIDE, the closed system. I do not find it either illogical, nor irrastional to "believe". Life comes from life, not random accidents of chemical reactions in an (impossible) primordial "soup/goup". big_smile

    1. Mark Knowles profile image61
      Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Untrue dj.

      We do not live in a magical system where there are angels and demons and everyone burns for ever in hell fire unless they buy into one particular religion of the hundreds of thousands of different religions.

      That doesn't mean we live in a closed system. Just a real one. wink

  43. countrywomen profile image60
    countrywomenposted 8 years ago

    Mezo- Most of us are open to other views and I am sure aren't  considering you a retard/brain washed (at least not me). If you have come to that conclusion about the existence of God then so be it. I personally haven't come to that stage yet and in due course of time (I may/ may not get all the answers but I will keep questioning).

    Btw we all are entitled to our opinions/views and your view is as much respected as anyone else's. I hope you didn't mind my view since I have grown up in a very multicultural society I have encountered way too many perspectives hence I find it difficult to reconcile all views (but I do understand/respect every view). May the "God" you believe bless you. Have a great day my friend smile

  44. countrywomen profile image60
    countrywomenposted 8 years ago

    Dr.Anjesh- Thanks for bringing your perspective to this discussion. Being born to a Hindu parents when I was a child my mother used to tell me to pray to Hanuman whenever I am afraid and when I was growing up I started questioning lots of things. My grandfather used to practice yoga/meditation and he could feel different energies emanating (not just from humans but even animals). I was curious and I learned a bit of Yoga/Meditation/Reiki/Pranic Healing but all these I haven't been practicing hence I feel unless one practices a particular process it maybe difficult for others to experience what the state of mind that those who have enlightened have achieved. I don't deny/confirm the existence of God/Goddess but yet believe in Karma/Reincarnation(I guess being born as a Hindu has something to do with it and yet I am ok with those who haven't been raised in these belief systems if they chose to disbelieve it). I don't know if I am making much sense and I have so many questions but some of the answers seem to be  either illusive/incomplete.

    At the same time I guess I am too lazy to practice the processes and hence I have no right to question those who have those experiences. I liked the link you posted and will read your site and see if they answer some of my questions. Thanks for posting the interesting link smile

    1. dranjesh profile image41
      dranjeshposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Excellent view my dear friend smile I wholeheartedly appreciate the response and your sincere interest towards learning..

      One more thing (you make complete sense to me at least smile )... the concept of destiny, karma and free will and also the reincarnation is absolutely true and our organisation has been continuously involved in the research in this regards. May be you can go thro these links in search of your answers and I sincerely feel that you may get your answers smile

      destiny - a spiritual perspective

      life after death - a spiritual perspective

      ancestral problems

      As you rightly said, each one has his/her view point. But to believe or rather trust and parctice what is advocated is more important. Each one knows that ' Sugar is sweet ' as he is taught so.. but till he/she eats and experiences the tastes, will not be aware of. Spiritual Science is hence called as the "Science of Experience" and experience can be only possible if one does the advocated things practically.

      Please do go thro these links and do drop in your valuable comments and questions smile

      Wish you good luck smile

  45. accofranco profile image83
    accofrancoposted 8 years ago

    We all know that there is always an opposite to every activity taking place on Earth,so? It then means that an opposite of the evil spirit exist,then what can we call this spirit? In this hypothesis that i'm trying to develop,i tried my best not to bring in religion or doctrine rather,i based it on a common sense and human reasoning,and the actual inference to me is that "God" exist.

  46. accofranco profile image83
    accofrancoposted 8 years ago

    Thanks doc.Please i would appreciate it if u would post all these links to my private mail,through my data at my profile.Thank u.

    1. dranjesh profile image41
      dranjeshposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Done smile
      Have sent some links ..

      Do drop in your comments

      1. accofranco profile image83
        accofrancoposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          I will doc.Thanks for being so subtle,wise and reasonable,may all your efforts yield positive results,and may u reap bountifully from your labors.Remain blessed.

        1. LondonGirl profile image85
          LondonGirlposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Blimey, talk about shooting for an Order of the Brown Nose!

  47. accofranco profile image83
    accofrancoposted 8 years ago

    @Dranjesh- what an angelic and heavenly manner u got,i still insist that "may the heavens reward your good works and wisdom",please keep this up,and continue to show them the true way of life,and again,i have not red any insane or hateful word(s) from u either,so stand fame on your truth! Thumbs up doc!

    1. dranjesh profile image41
      dranjeshposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Dear friend,
      Thanks a lot for these heavenly wishes smile

      I intend to promote the reality (though that is invisible, but is the truth if sincerely perceived). I am working as a volunteer and have no monetary intentions behind all this, and hence try to percolate the pure knowledge only.

      I will always try to be true to myself in reaching the people and that is my way (can say God's wish).. This dose not mean others are not true.. but as I earlier said, each one has different modes of identifying the truth.. that dose not mean they do not agree with what is true just bcos they are not agreeing with my words..

      i personally feel, each one is genuine and a gem.. and so is my dear friend Mark, who seems to be much elder, senior and genuinely interested in learning.. So no grudges smile

      regards and thanks again..

  48. accofranco profile image83
    accofrancoposted 8 years ago

    At least,if life can naturally arise,one day ever since i cannot tell,we should have at least seen some different beings (i mean humans) just emerge within our community or neighborhood,without their having a solid traceable human lineage(talking about parents and family),again we shouldn't have been dieing,we should have been living forever like stones,mountains,land,or just name those things that cannot die,its just my opinion and not inference.

  49. Bard of Ely profile image86
    Bard of Elyposted 8 years ago

    The proof of the existence of a God/Goddess or a divine creator for me is the staggering complexity of design of every single thing we know about. I mean look at any living thing and contemplate how amazing it is - no human could create anything as wonderful as the tiniest plants or animals when its comes to their design! then consider how everything how complex the ecosystem is and how the web of life has been created with animals and plants dependent in various ways on other animals and plants. Then just think about beauty and about the senses you have to perceive and enjoy with. Think about the way life is living in all the different habitats on this planet from the deepest ocean depths and in volcanic underseas vents to the most arid deserts as well as in and under the frozen lands of the north and south polar areas. Think about the heavens above, what we know of them and how much we don't know. To say there is no designer of all this makes no sense to my mind!
    But as to what religion is right? I would say none of them are because they are all the inventions of humans and sadly are often little more than control systems for manipulating the minds and behaviour of millions of people!

  50. accofranco profile image83
    accofrancoposted 8 years ago

    Again if life can arise naturally,why is some lands still empty with no humans habiting on it? Why can't natural evolution place some humans there? Why was America discovered by Amerigo Vespucci,why couldn't natural evolution position human beings there to its fullest? Why are some islands still without human,why can't natural evolution position some humans there?

    1. SiddSingh profile image61
      SiddSinghposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks for the information. Till date I thought it was Christopher Columbus!

      1. Sufidreamer profile image81
        Sufidreamerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        The Vikings were there long before him, and the original inhabitants might have something to say about being 'discovered.' smile

        Why couldn't God 'position human beings there to its fullest?' - must have been an oversight in the grand plan smile

        1. Mark Knowles profile image61
          Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Guess we should not count the human beings that were there when America was "discovered" huh? lol

        2. countrywomen profile image60
          countrywomenposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          During our trip to South Dakota we met a Native Indian and he said that he found it "insulting" that somebody "discovered" them as if there existence prior to the "discovery" doesn't mean anything. In fact some of them consider the "Columbus Day"(which is celebrated here in US) to be offending there sensibilities. smile

          1. Sufidreamer profile image81
            Sufidreamerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            I am not surprised - they were probably quite happy until Europeans arrived, killed most of them and nicked all of their land. That, apparently, is civilization.

            1. Mark Knowles profile image61
              Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              No - it is god's will. big_smile

            2. AlexiusComnenus profile image59
              AlexiusComnenusposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              An excellent point. What amazes me is the small (to us but not to them) slight people will constantly complain of and demand recompense, but there is a huge denomination of people quietly bearing the horrendous insult we heaped upon them with quiet dignity. What we did to the Native Americans was FAR worse than slavery. An african-american would claim otherwise, of course, but it cannot be disputed that even now those same African Americans enjoy the freedom of being American while Native Americans still have laws and broken treaties that keep them in their places. They are free to move, obviously, but our shameful treatment of their peoples is still on the books.

              1. Sufidreamer profile image81
                Sufidreamerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                I am English, and we did some pretty awful things, too. The British Empire was not as benevolent as many think.

                Interesting name, BTW - a famous name in this part of the world smile

                1. AlexiusComnenus profile image59
                  AlexiusComnenusposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  What part of the world is that? smile

                  1. Sufidreamer profile image81
                    Sufidreamerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    I now live in Greece, where he is known as the saviour of the Byzantine Empire and therefore the Greek Orthodox Church smile

 
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