Fact, Truth and Reality are open; aren’t they?

1. 51

   paarsurreyposted 14 years ago

   Quran/Islam/Muhammad as they are the most "open”; the first chapter of the Quran is named "Al-Fatihah" or the "Open" fact/Truth/reality.
   
   The fact/truth/reality has to be firm; nevertheless it is open. It is not a confusion or doubtful point; so it has to be like that. The next chapter of Quran mentions this point:
   
   [2:3] This is a perfect Book; there is no doubt in it; it is a guidance for the righteous,
   
   http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … r.php?ch=2
   
   When Quran is a reality/fact or Truth; why should it waver? Don’t you think fact, reality and Truth are “Open”?
   
   When there is a perfect book like Quran out there; why should it take the standpoint of being an imperfect one?
   
   The "righteous" here is the "open-minded" human being.
   
   Thanks
   
   I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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   1. 62

      pisean282311posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      When Quran is a reality/fact or Truth; why should it waver? Don’t you think fact, reality and Truth are “Open”?- Prove it ...every one would believe then and you wont need to post threads for that..prove it ..show some real tangible proves...

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2. 35

   jacobkuttytaposted 14 years ago

   No comments

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3. 52

   Tcboomersposted 14 years ago

   pisean before saying saomething you have to have some knowledge about that.
   we need not to prove.
   if you want then go and read the book.
   paarsurrey..was just spreading the truth.and it is our duty to speak the truth and to spread the truth.

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4. 52

   TruthDebaterposted 14 years ago

   Anyone that thinks a book is the perfect truth probably isn't very open to begin with. See how open they are when you tell them their book is a flawed lie. Thanks.

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5. 75

   aguasilverposted 14 years ago

   I came to hold the bible as truth after examining as many options as I could, before reading the bible.
   
   Now obviously had I found another book (or religion) that I accepted was the truth earlier, then I could never have reached the bible.
   
   The Quran may well have persuaded me IF I had read it BEFORE reading the bible, but by reading it in conjunction with the bible I was able to recognise it's defects...... bank tellers spot counterfeits by knowing what the real thing looks like, not by studying counterfeits.
   
   I have not stopped reading and researching, that would be foolish, but I will state that I have not found another book which has shown me more truth than the bible.
   
   Does the bible contain the WHOLE truth?
   
   Yes, in my opinion it does, however I do not state that the whole truth is necessarily  understandable in the bible, i.e. God has provided every truth we need, but not necessarily every truth we want.
   
   The truth we need to find, is the truth we are prepared to stake our very existence upon, i.e. any position that you would not be prepared to die defending is not worth defending.

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   1. 86

      Pcunixposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      How odd that you didn't notice the conflicts and flat out errors.
      
      But then you WANT it to be perfect, don't you? So you ignore or wave away anything that contradicts what you want.
      
      Same thing the Muslims do.  They ignore the contradictions in their book, you ignore them in yours.
      
      They are both just books compiled by ordinary people.  No gods involved.  Some history mjxed with a lot of nonsense and full of errors and contradictions.

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      1. 75

         aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Hi PC,
         
         You obviously missed:
         
         "Yes, in my opinion it does, however I do not state that the whole truth is necessarily  understandable in the bible, i.e. God has provided every truth we need, but not necessarily every truth we want."
         
         " So you ignore or wave away anything that contradicts what you want."
         
         ...and likewise PC, you let anything that will pervert what the bible states be used as a case against God.
         
         We all have our positions concerning this book, and frankly it is irrelevant which position we take, for we both 'know' we are correct!
         
         I thought I was correct for 25 years, then found new 'evidence' (for me) that changed my mind, and life, and the lives of many others also.
         
         I was probably fortunate that I was NOT exposed unduly to religion when I was young, just what we had at school, and then I used to doodle through the lesson.
         
         God gives us all a course to follow, whether we accept that or not, it's what I see everywhere, folks at differing points on life's highway, and thankfully, we can change our mind right up until we cross the finishing line.
         
         I was 41 before I overcame my self worth and ego 'problems' and realised that despite having more information available to me than any other generation, I was still 'pond life' when it came to understanding what life the universe and God is about, still am, and always will be, as are all of us, until we cross the finishing line, and get the secrets of everything explained to us, when it will all become clear.
         
         No, the bible (or any other book) will not give us everything we seek in our 'inner parts', but UNTIL I find a better book to follow, it's the one that holds sway in my life.

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         1. 86

            Pcunixposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Which parts do you follow?  Do you kill Wiccans?
            
            
            The contradictions don't bother you?  Obviously somebody was lying about the ressurection stuff, because the accounts conflict.  How do you choose which version to believe?

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            1. 75

               aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               I don't kill anybody, nobody gets killed by believers in the new covenant, Ananias, and Sapphira get killed by God for their deception, but generally speaking Christ was returning folk to life (spiritual and physical) and we are to do the same thing.
               
               As to inconsistency's, I would doubt the Gospel accounts more if they all concurred exactly, for different folk see different aspects of things they witness, as any serving police officer, will tell you, they know instantly that there is a problem if all the witness statements are identical, because people are not wired that way, besides which the Gospels are directed to different sections of believers in their writings.
               
               Let's face it PC, you seem to have a vengeance against the bible and God, and that's your prerogative, but trying to undermine the bible is at best a futile effort, for believers are believers, and although many may have been 'induced' into belief, someone challenging their belief actually helps the cause of Christ, for it shakes out the shallow ground believers and strengthens those who hold true belief through understanding and the infilling of the Holy Spirit.

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         2. 51

            paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Please provide the relative texts of one such teaching from   OTBible, NTBible and Quran for comparison, with the context of the verses(five preceding and five following) and then establish your view point that NTBible is unique in it teachings .
            
            Thanks
            
            I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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            1. 75

               aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Hi Arhmadi,
               
               Usually I just ignore your posts, but I will try to spend the time to answer this one, for it may help you understand why I normally just ignore your posts.
               
               It may take some time, for although I know my bible, I will need to study your Quran again, for it has been about 15 years since I compared them.
               
               Perhaps if you studied the bible (with an open heart) you may negate my need to reply!
               
               Ask for Gods Holy Spirit to guide you to all truth, He will be faithful to do so.

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               1. 51

                  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  I have studied Bible, OT and NT, both Catholic and Protestant version from cover to cover and also some from JW's .
                  Comparitive study is essential and refreshing. Just start with one issue; no need to start many issues together; that leads one nowhere.
                  
                  Please; I am listening.
                  
                  Thanks

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   2. 51

      paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Such as; just give one example, not more. Please provide the text of the both books with context.

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6. 0

   hamstersmessiahposted 14 years ago

   God, Allah, Brahman, whatever you choose to call them is omnipresent within each of us and has no need of books to manifest his/her truth of our undying spirit.  the books that are produced by people through divine inspiration will never be complete in and of themselves because they do not have the quality of OMNIPRESENCE.  the soul that fully grasps their own divine nature has no need of outside books but grasps their DIVINE nature intuitively.  "sacred" texts are useful as guidebooks only for those that do not realize their own divine nature.

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   1. 51

      paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      
      
      
      The Creator-God Allah YHWH is within us and without us. The Revealed Books supports what is within our Phsyhce .There is no contradiction in them if understood correctly. Isn't it?
      
      Thanks
      
      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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