Believer or Non-believer

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   zachariahs78posted 14 years ago

   I just spent time, for the first time, reading some of these different forums and responding to some comments made. Comments basically on the subject of belief and non belief in God, a supreme being, all of it.
   The question that kept coming to mind was; Why do we feel compelled to argue with one another about whose right and whose wrong? Who cares? If I believe in something and you don't, I don't care if you don't believe! Why do you care if I do? The other thing that kept coming up is the idea of "the truth" everyone knows the truth! Well I guess I don't! What is the truth? If you think God is the truth, tell me what about Him is. And if you think that people who believe in God don't know the truth, then by all means, share with me the truth.
   Both sides in these arguments claim to have the truth, what is it? Someone tell me the truth. Both sides please make a case for me.

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      Dave Barnettposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I beleive in Darwin, Einstein, Hawking. I also beleive in a Spirit which permeates our reality. my monitor just died. I'm blind!! It's gotta be an OMEN!!! Just kidding about the omen part. Then again... anyways, my reason for this belief is this. Free will is chaos. True free will is anarchy.  Free will has been responsible for all the wars, starvation and privation, with God and religion many being used to scapegoat man's responsibility for his own inability to correct the thing's that are in man's power to correct. They look to superman to save them, when, all along, if it is in our power to save ourselves, then we must, by their own God's command do so. We must all put aside our differences, without religion or politics, in the Spirit of community. I beleive not in a bearded figure on a throne in heaven. I believe that heaven and hell are here, and it is up to us what we want to live in. It's a beautiful world, it can be a beautiful life, but we have to want it. My fear is that atheism and total denial of that spirit which dwells in ALL things, will lead us down the path of the total de-humanization of mankind, and because of free will, mankind will continue, unabated to do bad thing's to his environment and his fellow man, with nothing to constrain him. The prob is that  "evil" and "good" are concepts of civilization, handed down, mainly by the priesthood of different civilizations, they were the original "interpreters" of the will of the Gods. They set down the code of conduct, much of which is still in our moral codes today, and science has brought us to the brink of destruction. Even our modern medicines end up in the water table as they pass from our bodies. Viagra, anyone? I was agnostic. Something happened, but no witnesses. Main event IS verifiable, but a good percentage of the story would be dependent on people taking my word for it. It has taken me thirty years and hubpages for me to discuss it with others at all. I beleive that my experience is an ancient thing, inherent in man, and that everything we want to know, EVERYTHING is inside each and every one of us, all nwe need do is open the doors of perception, and a new day, determined by a new mankind, will dawn. Monitor keeps going.

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   Mishaposted 14 years ago

   You don't like it - just don't do it

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      EatLovePrayposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I agree with this

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      1. 57

         Dave Barnettposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         And the Hitler's and Mansons and Jim Jones just go on their merry way. Don't you realize that in the real world, not every one can "have it their own way" Chaos and anarchy. Mankind is not to be trusted with his free will, and a world wide "New Order" is well on it's way to a neighborhood near you, and there goes your free will. The State can't allow it. Just watch.

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         1. 57

            Dave Barnettposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            By the way, I'm not a champion of that New Order, I can merely see it coming. WTO, NAFTA and others are in the works as I keyboard this. Gee, how long you planning on staying asleep?

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            1. 61

               zachariahs78posted 14 years agoin reply to this

               I appreciate everyone's response, but no one has told me what they think the truth is other than Dave Barnett, who believes the truths of his own life, which I think is good, for him. But non believers always claim to know the real "TRUTH" but they don't say what that truth is! What is it?

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               1. 57

                  Dave Barnettposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Forum yesterday on Stephen Hawking drew some responses, and I had an eventful reparte' with one fellow who beleives all that I do, accept for the ethereal spirit part. Just how big can life be? Do we know? There are things living inside of us, w/o which we would die. They are unaware of "me" I am God to them, for I CAN kill them, but then my purpose would be over, hence my death, and they? They are US

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            Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            LOL I won't even go there. Good luck

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            1. 57

               Dave Barnettposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               WE ARE THE BACTERIA IN GOD' S GUT! Actually, I observe in microcosm, and expand out to a macrocosm where our reality is blown up (much like the big bang) but possibilities from there are nearly infinite, as in string theory, and my new favorite is the newest version of string... membrane theory. Now we're getting somewhere.

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   Kathryn LJposted 14 years ago

   OK,here goes.  There is not one 'truths' but many 'truths', all of them true!  The trick is to recognise that there is more than one truth and that each one is equally valid, yet equally flawed.  This explains both the lack of agreement and the various debates - god verses atheism, although of course you will all argue about which god.  Personally, I think she gets a bit tired with it all but hey that's only my 'truth'.

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      zachariahs78posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      This has been the most straight forward answer I have read all day. Thanks Kathryn! There are many "truths".
      But no one will tell me what they are! Wait, is it that everyone has their own "truth" a ingrained code of conduct, a system that makes sense to them only? That is what it sounds like. Trying to get two people to agree about the same thing seems impossible but open your mouth and tell people what you believe and everyone and their mother has an answer! I am a Christian, a lot of times I find myself disgusted by the actions, thoughts and practices of fellow Christians.
      Here I will say this and you probably won't find too many other Christians that will say the same thing but, I DO NOT CARE WHAT YOU BELIEVE, believe in the boogie man, I don't give a shit. Just don't tell me that because you believe something different than me that you know the "truth" and I don't! Because here's the TRUTH, i don't give a shit!

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         Kathryn LJposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Ain't that the truth?  For years I have had sincere, serious people knocking on my door, trying to tell me the truth, which is usually that I am a very bad person, who can only be saved by bunging someone a few quid and joining some dodgy sect. I too am sick of other people's truths and their insatiable appetite for telling me about them.  Now I live in a country, with a language that I can barely communicate in - and it's great!  Even people cold calling can't be arsed to inflict their 'truth' on me, because I can't understand it.  I'd say it was heaven but some people might object.

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         Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Looks like you just answered your own question and why we care.

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         Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         A Bible-believing Christian will never (or at least should never) say they don't care what someone believes.
         Because what people believe or don't believe has eternal consequences.

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            zachariahs78posted 14 years agoin reply to this

            But if someone doesn't believe in God, then they don't believe in heaven and hell and eternal consequences. To them their are no eternal consequences. So living your life as an example should be the answer, instead of shoving your beliefs down someone's  throat! I don't want to hear what someone's beliefs are when they are trying to convince me that they are right and I am wrong. But if day in and day out a person lives a life that I find appealing than I will be more likely to ask, how and why things in their lives are the way they are. I will want to know what they think is the "truth"!

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               Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               I can understand that.
               But...what about the person who's in need of immediate salvation right NOW and hasn't time to sit back and watch the proceedings of a Christian's life?  (which, could be anyone!  'Cause we never know when our time on earth is up).

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                  zachariahs78posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  If someone is predisposed to the idea of a deity than that person's God has a plan of salvation in their lives! I don't need to witness to anyone about my beliefs! I have had a multitude of things happen throughout my life that have made the people I know and even barely know ask me how I make it through those things, but I refuse, refuse refuse to say "do you have God? or Jesus, or do you know where you are going to spend eternity? Take people of the Jewish faith, to whom were entrusted the oracles of God the "Ten Commandments" most Jewish people believe that if you are a good person, then you will live on in the hearts of others, and if you weren't no one will remember you! That's their idea of eternal consequence. Anyone's time can be up at any second, that's why you should worry about being comfortable with your own standing, rather than telling me what mine should be!

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