Why do Christians argue about God and his will?

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   MartieCoetserposted 14 years ago

   Have you noticed that it is only Christians who constantly argue about God and his will? Why do members of other religions have a consentaneous interpretation of the Creator and his will?

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      Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Maybe 'cause we actually care about what His will is.....?
      
      And...I'm not so sure that other religions actually do have a "consentaneous interpretation" ....

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         MartieCoetserposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Brenda, perhaps they dare not argue. There was in fact a time when we did not share our thoughts about religion with others. Those who were not Chistians were merely ‘banned’ – not supported in the business world, etc. There was a time when we had to state our religion when we applied for a job, and those who were not Christians did not stand a chance to fill vacant posts. Christianship was required by schools and universities, it was a compulsory subject. Other religions had their own schools. So perhaps the freedom of speech has something to do with this. Thanks for giving your opinion.

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            Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            There may have been a time.
            But that time is not now.
            These days, there is actually a reversal happening, and it ain't pretty, 'cause (like many reversals), an inch stretches to a mile and then another mile, and two wrongs simply make a third wrong.

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         mom101posted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Marty, hello to you. Hope the day is going well for you. Haven't had the pleasure in versing with you as yet.
         
         I am glad that you posed and posted such question. I would like to answer in part with a question that hit me the second I read your post. Why is it that non Christians feel the need to "disprove" the Christians theory?
         
         I have taken part in several discussions concerning this, and I have noticed that the non-Christians seem to try to attack the christians and their beliefs.
         I can not recall in any discussions where the Christians are attacking the non-believers. Certainly not belittling the non-believer for their disbelief.
         
         Christians are human also. When under attack, it is human nature to go into defense mode.
         
         Myself personally, I do not like to be "tagged" I'll call it. I do believe in a God. A higher power. Whatever label you want to put on it.
         
         You know, I take the Bible to as to be a guide. Arguing over who wrote it is futile. But this guide, it contains some wonderful  parables, stories, predictions, even IF one were to take God out of  it.
         
         Here is a thought. Everything has two sides. Some examples. Good/bad  kind/cruel  God/Satan  Will/Way.
         
         Creator? I take this to mean a person or the person that has created. Ok, If I make a banana pudding, my (intent) or my will is is that others will eat it and enjoy it. God (Creator) He too had intentions when He Created. His Will more than likely is of a good nature. Happiness, toghetherness etc. That Will was broken when Satan (along with his will) came into play. His will being of a bad nature. Division, to say the least.
         
         From those two aspects is where we are today.

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            MartieCoetserposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            mom101 – Hi! It seems to me we are on the same page. But even if we were not, I would have respected your views.
            I believe Live is a school with God as the headmaster. Some teachers don’t follow the curriculum, confusing us, but the Headmaster is in charge and He will (soon) sort us out again – get us back on track.
            The problem is, I don’t know in what grade you are in and you don’t know in what grade I am in. Imagine a grade one’r start to argue about a topic with a grade ten’er. Would it not sound ridiculous? And this is what (most) Christians constantly do! And then you get the seniors bullying the juniors....
            Honestly, I miss the respect and love Christians are suppose to have for each other. And I’m not talking about non-Christians. Let them be. Christians should behave in such a way that all ‘outsiders’ get inspired to become Christians. They are supposed to be like Christ – not aggressive and argumentative. He did not even defend himself ‘in court’. He said nothing when he was belittled and forced to carry his cross. What did he pray: God forgive them for they don’t know what they are doing.
            Anyway, I’m just confused about this – the arguing – Christians intimidating each other with their (so-called) knowledge and wisdom.
            Thanks for joining the conversation!

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               mom101posted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Marty.  Yep. I believe we are on the exact same page.
               
               I have said many times over, "Christians" should come together on most things, NEVER argue in any way, and to pray, pray, pray for those that have yet looked to the light for guidenance that soon they will.
               
               I too miss the same things. Growing up I was raised in a Baptist setting. Although, I did learn respect, a lot was missing i felt.  The preacher, and I loved him to pieces, delivered a sermon, 3 times a week. But, hey, how the preacher presented it was just his opinion. There was very little on the teaching of "how to" build a relationship, with God, nothing about what connects us to Him, you know, that kind of thing.
               
               If asked, I am very vocal. If not asked, I am silent. I try to live life in a way that  people would look and say, hey , whats she got I aint got. You know what I mean.
               
               Father forgive them for they know not what they are doing. So true. Most people ignore the fact there is a spiritual war going on. Between the Creator and satan.
               
               Thanks for the question. I read your profile. Sounds like me.
               
               Have a bright and happy day

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                  MartieCoetserposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  mom101 – Thanks for the nice chat. Seems to me we have nothing to argue about. LOL! And all readers seem to agree with us. Oh well, perhaps they don’t, but then I have to thank them for respecting our views – and for not trying to convince us that we are wrong and they right.
                  Who is, after all right? God’s thoughts are not ours, and his time is not our time. We can but only understand what the Holy Spirit makes clear to us. What do we know on our own about God and His will? 
                  So let’s call this question of mine answered. Thank you to all who left opinions.

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            h.a.borcichposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            You wrote my thoughts wonderfully

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      pisean282311posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      well where are you talking about...if hub, because there are more christians out here...if you talk about world at large..muslims talk more about god's will..infact they add god willing after every aspiration ..even if they would be setting a get together..they would say 'god willing we shall meet on so and so date'...

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         MartieCoetserposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         pisean282311 –  Yes, there was a time Christians talked like this too. My grandparents would never make any future plans without saying: “If it is God’s will, we will do this/that tomorrow...” People got out of this habit in the time of my parents. Now a person will be classified as a bigot if he uses this phrase.
         
         Ref. more Christians on H’Pages – When I read some of the discussions in the forums, I pondered over the scripture “... don’t get drunk of whine, but with the Holy Spirit...”
         
         Now with this ‘advice’ I agree. But look at drunkards - some get aggressive, others too fondly, others keep on irritating spectators by repeating themselves over and over or by doing silly things, others get in their cars, causing accidents, killing innocent people.
         
         The thought crossed my mind: Exactly what does God expect from his ‘drunk with the Holy Spirit children’? How should they behave in public? Argue? Following the example of Job’s friends who had a lot to say about him and his problems? (As if they new what was God’s will with Job?).
         
         So I try to understand the constant arguing of Christians in the forums.

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            mom101posted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Marty,  I don't know how old your parents are, but I still say 'goood Lord willin and the creek don't rise" thing  when I am making plans.
            
            On the drunkard thing, you are comparing the actions of one drunk on wine as being the same as one drunk on the Holy Spirit.  I have read many times where one was arrested for dui from alcohol but NEVER from being under the influence of the Holy Spirit.
            
            What does God expect from His "drunken children"? Maybe, kindness and compassion.

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               MartieCoetserposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               mom101 – Yes I do compare the two kinds of drunkards with each other, and the resemblance is very obvious to me.
               
               I prefer, of course, those who are permanently kind and compassionate. I just love them. They are, in my bias view, real Christians. I know only a few of them in Hubs, and non of them will dishonor God by getting into an argument in the forums.

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               Druid Dudeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Excuse me. Iwas arrested, while under the influence of the spirit.

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                  Druid Dudeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Jesus was arrested w/ under the influence, as were the martyrs including Peter. Rule one: The spirit will not prevent arrest.

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         Dave Mathewsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Everything a muslim does it is done in "The will of Allah" The will of God.
         
         Christians are aware that all is of God and from God, through His Will. Therefore we seek to do and live according to His perfect will.

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      kimberlyslyricsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      hey Martie, was reading you yesterday, great hubs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      
      sorry just a quick break for commercial
      
      xo
      
      

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         MartieCoetserposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Hi Lady! I hope you are fine? Thanks for popping up!

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      paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      It is the Creator-God Allah YHWH's will which works and is manifest all around us:
      
      [6:58] Say: ‘I take my stand on a clear evidence from my Lord and you reject it. That which you desire to be hastened is not in my power. The decision rests with none but Allah. He explains the truth, and He is Best of judges.’
      [6:59] Say: ‘If that which you desire to be hastened were in my power, surely the matter would be decided between me and you. And Allah knows best the unjust.’
      [6:60] And with Him are the keys of the unseen; none knows them but He. And He knows whatsoever is in the land and in the sea. And there falls not a leaf but He knows it; nor is there a grain in the deep darkness of the earth, nor anything green or dry, but is recorded in a clear Book.
      [6:61] And He it is Who takes your souls by night and knows that which you do by day; then He raises you up again therein, that the appointed term may be completed. Then to Him is your return. Then will He inform you of what you used to do.
      
      http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … p;verse=59

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         MartieCoetserposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         10.    paarsurrey – I don’t believe that everything that’s going on around us is God’s will. Just look – most of the events around us are the manifestations of our own will, or some dictator’s will. However, all of us have to give account for whatever we did out of our own free will – and not only to God, but to ourselves and the people around us. Then, somehow, at the end, God’s will prevail. All our bad decisions and free-will actions seem to be a journey to God’s (final) will for us. It is like a school, training, we have to undergo in order to do at a certain time in our lives exactly what God want us to do. This is only how I experience God and his will in my life - others may experience Him differently. Thanks for your input.

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            paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I mostly agree with you. Everything occuring around us which seems automatic or natural is being done at the command of the creator- God Allah YHWH; this is His will. All that we do at our decision and free will; we are accountable for doing that in a good way without doing wrong to others.

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               MartieCoetserposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               If all - theists as well as atheist - follow the rule - Love each other the way we love ourselves - don't do to others what we don't want others to do to us - life on earth would be heaven! But then.... we will have nothing to look forward to, we will have no mission on earth, no reason to become better than we already are.

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                  Druid Dudeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Perfection is not "just around the corner"

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   hanging outposted 14 years ago

   This is odd indeed, I never have arguments with christlikeians.
   I have heated conversations with atheists and only atheists.
   I find atheists to be the rudest and blindest non christians. I can hardly imagine them as decent people outside of hubpages.
   I have no trouble with christians.
   none, none at all

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      kimberlyslyricsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      :

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         DevLinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Ditto

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         Druid Dudeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         If one is able to understand this about free will. Prior to acceptance of God, one is allowed a semblance of self determination, but consider, if in an anthill, self determination only leads to the complete chaos of anarchy, which it does, then self determination is illogical. God is never illogical, despite what some may think. God's will supercedes man's will. So, if I then proceed to insist on free will, then that too, is God's will. He will send me strong reason to believe a lie. In short, if I am insistant on self deception, then that deception will increase. Acceptance of God, is this. Relinquishing all claim to free will. "Not mine, but thine." In the secular world, free will is an illusion. Too many variables effect our individual space. There are times when we must do what we must do, not what we would like to do, or even what we would rather do. There are also constraints put on us by others, family, friends, neighbors, co-workers, bosses, the local, state, and federal communities. We simply cannot do what we want to do. Every now and then, a bone comes our way. Here is the crux of the matter. IF you really want to do what your will tells you, when it tells you, then become the next world conqueror. Now there is a real downer on your free will. We have about as much free will as rats caught in a trap.

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            mom101posted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Druid, I agree. We (Christians and athesist) have no free will.
            
            But that is not God's Will.

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               Druid Dudeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               That is why I separated the two, God veiw, as opposed to secular veiw. One more push might help.  in the spiritual veiw, my will effects God's plan not one single iota. What will be, will be, and nothing I do will change it. Upon surrendering my will, I looked back, and nothing lay upon the floor. Everything is God's will, otherwise he is impotent. It's God's way, or the Highway.

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            MartieCoetserposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Yes, we have the right to make our own choices.
            
            Our way, or God's way?
            
            This is our options.
            
            And we are free to choose.
            
            And bear the consequences.
            
            But choosing God's way is not to say we will be successful - and this is another topic.
            
            Thanks for your input.

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            hanging outposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            free will is "thy will be done".. as we 'ask' that 'his will be done' then he moves accordingly, if we ask not that way, he moves accordingly.
            the free will is in the 'asking God and continual asking God that his will be done'. The moment we stop asking.. he also stops.
            This asking God is the only free will choice there is. there is no free will to go to the store, this free will is not important. The only concern of Gods that involves free will is whether we accept and believe in Him. After that, it is God working in our lives, if we become saved. If God deems it imperative we be at such and such corner at 5 he will put us there by his power. If a person goes to canadian tire or rona stores is not Gods doing, until that person is saved.
            Romans 8:28 "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose".
            There it is right there in one scripture.
            Salvation is the only free will choice of importance.

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      MartieCoetserposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      hanging out – Why arguing with ANYBODY? We are not able to change the minds of others. Jesus said “turn the other cheek”....
      Any kind of arguments about God is not in his honor – is my opinion. Job’s friends are typical examples of people who try to figure out the will of God.
      I believe we should study the character of Jesus, and his words and actions, and try to be his follower in all ways. And I’m speaking of myself as well, for I am in many ways not at all like him, though I know I should be, and I try. 
      Thanks for your input.
      PS.: You avatar is quite scary. LOL!

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         hanging outposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         im a frog. lol. I am waiting to evolve, but its not happening. Because evolution does not occur. lol. I really want to be a rabbit. If i think hard enough supposedly, i will create an enzyme that will trigger a genetic response and in some generations down the road my descendants will be rabbits. Its unbiblical and there is no truth to it and i wanted to say that for so long.
         
         i have no trouble with christlikeians. Until catholics put mary aside and jesus back on the throne of their hearts there will always be a hurt inside me. Islam was created by masons, ever notice the similarities between islam and catholicism? Both regard mary highly, both say jesus has some importance but is not savior, Both have God, yahweh. Women dress the same. Islam uses rosary too. Synagogues and cathedrals are totally close to each other, they are both religions (not spiritual relationships with the father)

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            MartieCoetserposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Hanging out – I am also not comfortable with the Worshipping-of-the-Virgin-religion and also not with Islam. But I will never confront them with my beliefs. My beliefs and faith are much to precious for me to lay out on the table for any Dick Tom and Harry to dissect. And I am sure others treasure their faith just as much as I do mine. Why do they hang it out in public to be stoned? 
            
            By the way, frogs can only evolve to princes Definitely not rabbits  
            
            Forgive me if I take too long to respond on this - I have a lot of other things to do in between. But I like the conversations going on in hear. Interesting. In spite of the arguing all over again. As if many people have lost their ability to communicate without arguing.

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               hanging outposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               dissect..... !?!!
               
               
               
               
               
               leemmme outtta hereeeeeee

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                  MartieCoetserposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  LOL!
                  
                  

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            Baileybearposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I saw an image of a frog that had eyes in the roof of its mouth instead of on top of its head. 
            
            Obviously you do not understand evolution involves reproduction and death (removal from the gene pool).  A frog doesn't instantly turn into a rabbit

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               hanging outposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               

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      Castlepalomaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      hanging out
      
      There are 2000 version of the bible who do not agree with each other.
      
      How can (most of the world) the rest of us agree or understand well, with all the wrong translation.

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         Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Why do Christians argue about God and his will?
         
           It has more to do with interpretation than it does translation.
         
            If I spoke the language well enough to translate it, My interpretation of what I see myself translating will be influenced by my interpretation.
         
             One Hebrew or Greek word might have a number of different meanings depending upon the text that is being used. 
            My individual interpretation will affect the word that I choose to translate the original word  to.
         Too many people do not take this into consideration when they are focusing upon the actual wordage used in the message that they are reading.
         
             So if the translator has already formulated an interpretation while translating , the translation will be bias to say the least.

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            MartieCoetserposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Jerami, I have to agree with you on this one. If you study Jesus's actions and preachings, you will notice that crooked interpretations already started with Paul. Thanks for your input.

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               Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               It seems that almost everyone agrees (both theist and atheist)  that there are way too many misinterpretations being followed by religion!
               
                  How can this be rectified?
                  How can anyone determine exactly when the first misconception began?
               
                  I sudgest  everyone pretend that this is a criminal court case.  An unbiased jury is selected. They are instructed to not consider anything that has not been entered as evidence yet.
                  They are instructed to not take into account anything that they have read in the news papers or seen on TV.
                  
                  Now that you have been selected to be on the jury, and have received the judges instructions.  lets begin.
               
                  You know nothing concerning the case!  You promise???
                
                  NOW  ... read the words in scripture that are written in red.
               These words that is said to have been spoken by Jesus Christ are entered into evidence as exhibit "A"   
                
                 There is no other evidence to be considered.  YET!
                 Read these verses and make your determination as to what they say. Read these verses and feel assured that you understand them to the best of your ability.   Remember a mans life is at stake and you do not want to come to a wrong conclusion.
               
                  After the jury has truthfully done this, Then and only then will further testimony be heard.
                  
                  When the jury hears the Disciples testifying, they are instructed to understand this evidence in such a way that it agrees with prion evidence that has been presented (the words written in RED)! 
                   And if the disciples testimony does not agree with prior evidence, We have found a problem. 
                  In this case we either misunderstood the evidence or someone is lying?  This is important so do not rush to judgment.
                  Think about it long and hard.  A mans life is at stake.
                
                  Defense rests its case
                 In closing argument ...  we do not need to look any farther to come to a fair and reasonable verdict.

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                  MartieCoetserposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Jerami – You know what? I agree with you. This is the intellectual approach. Perfect. Undisputable.
                  But sadly faith is like love, you just can’t approach it intellectually. Look at the partners of your friends. Can you (always) understand why they love their partners? Do you love their partners the way they do? Can you convince them that they are silly to love their partners? Can they give evidence why they love their partners? Can they prove that their partners make them happy or unhappy? In such a way that the jurie will finally deliver a judgment that will be accepted by everybody. So this is the case with faith and religious believes. You just can’t approach it intellectually.

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                     Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Sadly ,,,, we can not investigate what we believe from an intellectual level...   ?????
                     
                        Sadly there are a lot of atheists that do look at everything from an intellectual point of view!!
                     
                        Unfortunately they are looking at a Christians
                     UN informed point of view with intellectual prospective !!
                     
                       I have always felt that if the average Atheist were to look at scripture from the point of view that I am talking about,
                     a number of them might see the possibility of a God being real when seen from this other prospective.  That prophesy actually makes sense.
                     
                        But  Hay   I've been wrong before???.
                     
                     In my earlier post;  I didn't even mention what you were going to find after you understood what the RED letters were saying.
                     
                     If we say that we believe in him?  Why doesn't anyone read what he said first! and put that together with others are saying.  If what they say fits into the scope of things ?...  Good!

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                        MartieCoetserposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        I’m trying to remember the scripture regarding our ability to belief. It is not us that is so smart to belief, the Holy Spirit change our thoughts and views. I will post the scripture as soon as I find it.

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                           hanging outposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           John 6:44   No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.   ? is this the one  ?

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                        Woman Of Courageposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        Jerami, I agree with you. I have also observed that atheists are unable to see things on a spiritual level.

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                           Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           Considering the so-called "spiritual world" isn't anything part of our physical world, it would be a contradiction in terms to "see things" on a "spiritual level." LOL! 

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                              hanging outposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              again with the sarcasm.  Lets look at this more closely shall we....
                              (Joshua has not yet marched around jericho)
                                Joshua 6:2 "And the LORD said unto Joshua, See, I have given into thine hand Jericho, and the king thereof, and the mighty men of valour".
                              (joshua has not yet gone up to Ai)
                                Joshua 8:1" And the LORD said unto Joshua, Fear not, neither be thou dismayed: take all the people of war with thee, and arise, go up to Ai: see, I have given into thy hand the king of Ai, and his people, and his city, and his land":
                              
                              How can one SEE an event which has not happened yet? Or how can one SEE land being given to them.
                              
                                  Clearly there is another kind of SEEing taking place here. A SEEing that relies on faith. By faith the people SEE what land is given to them and events which haven't happened yet. Was the event and land untrue. NOPE. The fact that Gods people used faith to SEE did not make the event and promise of land non-effect. With spiritual eyes the people did SEE what God was doing.
                              
                                Matthew 13:15 "For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them".
                                Matthew 13:16   But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
                              
                              How can you NOT SEE this.  LOL!  and I would think that by now you would post on the side of caution LOL! 

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                                 Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 Funny how the presenting of reality to believers is considered "sarcasm" LOL!
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 How does the offering of a biblical myth demonstrate the contradiction of seeing a spiritual world?
                                 
                                    
                                 
                                 LOL! In other words, they imagined it. 
                                 
                                  
                                 
                                 All I "see" is biblical babble that does nothing to support any kind of argument. Hilarious.

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         hanging outposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         You have heard it said many times that the king james is the word of God.
         People who study the bible, theologians etc.. say the word of God is a bible.
         It doesn't matter what the world says... if a person have faith as a mustard seed any obstacle can be removed.
         I use the kjb. How many others say the same, bible.
         You want to go to google to see what others say?
         Everything relies on faith.
         If you want God you will eventually obtain a bible because there are enough people saying, bible, inerrant word of God.
         Step up.
         discover for yourself.
         Don't start at Genesis lol.
         Its not an ordinary book to be read ordinarily.
         There are many types of bars in any given town, there are many types of restaurants, find one you like that serves good food, same with churches, do the circuit. One will appear that is appropriate.
         But it all boils down to faith. Not science, not rationale, not what some fathead says negatively about the bible. Faith is the only key. With faith a person will learn and grow. Without it, spiritual death.
         Is faith implanted in the user or determined by the person?
         both.
         what do you know another scripture for this very topic.
         1 Corinthians 2:14   But the natural (unsaved) man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
         1 Corinthians 1:18  "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God".

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      Baileybearposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I noticed many christians have differing beliefs. 
      
      I find it funny you accuse non-believers of being blind.  I would say that most believers are ignorant

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   POWERS1205posted 14 years ago

   I agree that arguing is pointless. At times people discuss things to possibly help clarify questions or doubts in their own mind. Ultimately we all have to choose for ourselves. I think that the best expressions come from the way we live. I'm not better than anyone. My opinion does not have to be yours. But if a person asks, then I will tell them. After that, if they choose to disagree, that's ok. You asked and I have nothing to argue, it's my opinion.

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      MartieCoetserposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I agree with you!

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   Woman Of Courageposted 14 years ago

   I have not observed any christian arguing about God and his will. It is obvious that atheists and some unbelievers constantly attack christians for their belief in God. Christians have a right to stand up for their faith when being attacked. There is no need to argue.

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      Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      It's when Christians evangelize their faith that most have a problem. You have no right to do that.

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         h.a.borcichposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         
         
         It would be more accurate would you have stated :
         When christians attempt to discuss their faith with each other you have a problem.
         By the way, why is it you feel free to shove your lack of belief yet you fail to call it "evangelism"?
         
         I am glad we can all believe what we want to, and I am certainly not trying alter anyone's faith/lack of faith. I am questioning the tactic regardless of bias.

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            hanging outposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            thats gotta be a stumper!  But guess what theres a scripture for this too!
            
            Matthew 7:5 "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of anothers' eye.
            This is why their evangelising or bullying is not noticed by them or it just might be selfishness or bitterness they did not get to go to disneyland.
            Jesus said
            Matthew 24:14 " And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come".
            Mark 16:15 "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature".
            And the reason for this is, the gospel is the only message that saves.
            John 10:1   Truthfully, truthfully, I say unto you, He that enters NOT by the door into the sheepfold, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. (so much for all roads lead to God)

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               h.a.borcichposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               I think my point may have been missed.
               
               The only difference between an atheist shoving anti-theist beliefs and a christian shoving theist beliefs is the product being pushed. So why do atheists belly ache about evangelism when they are obviously guilty of the same tactic?

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                  hanging outposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  i was talkin to someone else.... guess i punched the wrong key

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                     hanging outposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     who is currently living under strong delusion

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            Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            No, my statement was accurate. Yours is not.
            
            
            
            A dictionary can answer that question for you.

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         Woman Of Courageposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Beelzedad,  I have a right to share my faith. I am not forcing my faith on you or anyone.

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            Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Yes, your are free to share your irrational beliefs just as anyone else is free to share theirs. It is that freedom we all embrace and uphold. The fact that one would wish to share irrational beliefs is something their intellectual honesty must be prepared to accept or deny. Wanting to live in a fantasy world is entirely the prerogative of all believers, that is, if they themselves could actually agree on their beliefs. Since they cannot agree, we end with conflict and wars as a result.
            
            Funny how believers insist they have that right. 

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               Druid Dudeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               At last! You admit that you are as free as I to share your irrational beliefs.

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                  Druid Dudeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  

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                  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Yes, I am free to share them, if I held any, which I don't. Sorry, that you were attempting some sort of clever retort and it didn't pan out.

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                     hanging outposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     remember ears that hear.... 

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               Woman Of Courageposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Be careful Beelzedad, you threw yourself a punch with your own words. What is your irrational beliefs?

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                  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Yes, I'm sure you'd like to believe that although there isn't anything in my post that would indicate such a thing. 
                  
                  
                  
                  That question makes no sense.

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                  hanging outposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  eyes to see now...

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   luvpassionposted 14 years ago

   Because it's amusing to drive the atheists insane...

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      hanging outposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      or do we just tap on the door of the asylum where they are already at
      
      LOL

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         Baileybearposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         and you think the atheists are in an asylum!  Hark whose talking!

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   exorterposted 14 years ago

   didn't you know that Beelzedad is smarter than anyone here on Hub pages, If you do not believe me just ask Beelzedad, he will tell you so in a flat second

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      Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      You are too kind.

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      hanging outposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I am actually not impressed

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   Jeramiposted 14 years ago

   MartieCoetser wrote:
   I’m trying to remember the scripture regarding our ability to belief. It is not us that is so smart to belief, the Holy Spirit change our thoughts and views. I will post the scripture as soon as I find it.
   =================
   hanging out  wrote John 6:44   No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.   ? is this the one  ?
   =============
   
      There is another one about Pride.
     That we should not be prideful concerning ..
   our good looks
   our intelugence
   our physical sreingth ...  health or anything else;  even our faith because all of these things are but Gifts that were given to us.   
      That God gives faith to those that he chooses.
   
     Or something like that.

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      MartieCoetserposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      @ Jerami
      
      I found some scriptures that reveal our inability to believe without the intervention of the Holy Spirit –  And in modern language we merely need to say: SOMETHING has to happen to us before we will be able to belief in God. (Remember Paul was original Saul, the Roman who proceeded against Christian – he was (literally or symbolically) struck by lighting before he was able to understand what Christianity was about.
      
      1 Corinthians 12:3    Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
      
      Romans 8:16    The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
      
      More links: Romans 8:26-27, Romans 8:15, Luke 11:13, John 14:17, Acts 2:17, 1 Corinthians 2:10, 1 Corinthians 2:11, 1 Corinthians 2:12-13, 2 Corinthians 3:17, Galatians 4:6, Ephesians 3:16, Ephesians 3:17, 2 Timothy 1:7, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 4:13.
      
      

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         Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I think that we are in agreement.
         
           When God wants to give us faith ...  he sends the spirit to us or gets our attention however and gives it.
         
            All that I was saying is that by having faith we have nothing to be proud about,  didn't have to work hard to get it.
            Like it just fell on top of us one day through no effort of our own. 
            It was given to us.

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            Druid Dudeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Why do people argue over Michael Jackson and his will? Talk about will fights, read up on Howard Hughes. Everybody was fighting over his will, incl the Mormons!

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               Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               I guess that they didn't want to believe what they(Howard & Michael)wrote in their will.

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            MartieCoetserposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            A most precious gift.
            
            I really enjoy mine, although it does not look like any of the gifts he has given to others. But are there 2 identical relationships on earth? Are there any one couple or 2 friends that love/like each other exactly as another couple/2 friends. Is every relationship not unique?
            
            I think it should be unique.
            
            I'm off to bed now for a good night rest. Although it is already 2:30am Too much hubbing! 
            
            

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   paarsurreyposted 14 years ago

   Why do Christians argue about God and his will?
   
   Rather than arguing with the Creator-God Allah YHWH; the Christians must do complete submission to Him and His will; that is heaven:
   
   [2:112] And they say, ‘None shall ever enter Heaven unless he be a Jew or a Christian.’ These are their vain desires. Say, ‘Produce your proof, if you are truthful.’
   [2:113] Nay, whoever submits himself completely to Allah, and is the doer of good, shall have his reward with his Lord. No fear shall come upon such, neither shall they grieve.
   [2:114] And the Jews say, ‘The Christians stand on nothing;’ and the Christians say, ‘The Jews stand on nothing;’ while they both read the same Book. Even thus said those who had no knowledge, like what they say. But Allah shall judge between them on the Day of Resurrection concerning that wherein they disagree.
   
   http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … ;verse=112

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   schoolgirlforrealposted 14 years ago

   it never ends. arguing is stupid unless you have to, but on here it's pathetic

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      MartieCoetserposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I certainly agree with you!
      
      

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         luvpassionposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Yo're actually only arguing with your computer....we're all insane

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            MartieCoetserposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            
            
            It is the night of Halloween, is it not?

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