we can agree ! ?

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   Jeramiposted 13 years ago

   Can we try something different?   
     Lets not debate whether these people actually existed. 
     Lets discuss ONLY the concepts that were said to have been taught.
      
     What would you say were the most important BASIC concepts that each religion could can agree upon. 
   Whether taught by  Yeshua, Mohammed, Buddha, etc. etc   ...
   
      Are there any concepts that could be said to be considered agreeable to all. 
    
      And no I do not have any ulterior motives  OR  answers prepared.  I would just like to see as many as posible.

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      Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      The concepts that I believe should apply to any and all religions is love of self, love of fellow man, do no wrong, let God judge evil and deal with it. These four principles would fit with any religious beliefs.

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         Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Yes this would bee a good commonality that they all profess to being their fundamental belief.
         
           Thank you for getting it started.

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      Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Despise and reject anyone or anything that does not share the particular belief system in question.

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         Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         That would defeat the purpose of ever comparing notes.
         
           Would someone please escort that concept out the door.

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            Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Yet, Christians know very little about their own religion let alone knowing anything at all about other religions.

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               Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Why does anyone need to read  THE book when the preacher tells us what is in it?

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                  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  By admitting that you have not read the bible and have only gleaned your beliefs from what others have told you only shows the typical characteristic of indoctrination.
                  
                  That characteristic would be confirmed in you also didn't read any other holy books, as well.

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                     Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     That statement was not a confession on my part.
                       That was a sarcastic remark towards people that think that way.
                       And I think that you know that.

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                        Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Come now, Jerami, you've made it amply clear in many of your posts that you haven't read the bible.

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         Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Always so negative Beel. What's up with that. You just like dragging darkness around with you like some kind of deformed pet. Wake up and get a life.

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            Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            LOL! Still can't form an argument, I see.

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      pennyofheavenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Know yourself, Love yourself and what naturally arises is Peace, humility, love for all, and compassion for all.

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         Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         couldn't agree with ya more.
         Ya can't know anyone else unless ya know yourself
         
           Ya can't love anyone else unless you love your self first.
         etc etc etc.  All the signs seem to be pointing to self. This is where all of our problems lie.
           There is always a BUT.  ...BUT, we don't want to get stuck on our selves either.

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            pennyofheavenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Yes agree. In saying that I think getting stuck on ourselves (if I am understanding you correctly) is an egotistical approach to knowing oneself and loving oneself. If we can truly accept ourselves flaws and all then we are coming from a different space all together. Mistakes are things we can learn from, however many beat themselves up instead of accepting they are human and looking for the lesson so it doesn't occur again. Accepting we are human helps us find the lessons we need to learn for inner growth. Beating ourselves when the ego views it results in the feeling that we are not good enough at whatever or for whatever.

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      paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Moses, Jesus, Krishna, Zoroaster etc; all would happily shake hands and would love to live peacefull and cordially. They all had the same message from the Creator-God; only the people lost their message and it had to be revived later.

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         Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I doubt it.  Any of them that actually existed would wage holy war against the others.

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      lcg4jcposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Hi Jerami. I like this question because it deals with the three greatest Monotheistic religions, Judaism, Christanity, and Islam
      
      The greatest denominator if you go back to the roots of all three religions is "Abraham"
      
      The patriarch Abraham is considered to be the father of faith in all three religions.
      
      Abraham had Ishmael and Islam stems their roots through him
      Abraham had Isaac and Judaism stems their roots through him
      Abraham represents the faithful "those who live by faith" in Christianity and "it is accounted unto them as righteousness"

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         Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         It is surprising how many people do not know this.  A common denominator which should help these beliefs get along.  But it does not.

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            Baileybearposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            unfortunately not.  Even "christians" throw bombs at other "christians" eg northern Ireland

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            lcg4jcposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I agree!

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   psycheskinnerposted 13 years ago

   You have already left out the part of 'all' that is not religious.  And as this is the 'relgion *and* philosophy' forum I think that is 'on topic' to mention.

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      Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I was just trying to get a commonalities topic going.
      
          I didn't know how much valuable input would come into discussion if any and all topics of philosophy attempted to express themselves.
          But I wasn't intending to be exclusionary.

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   Pcunixposted 13 years ago

   Why does it have to be religion?
   
   You don't think the Humanist Manifesto is an admirable code?
   
   http://www.americanhumanist.org/Who_We_ … anifesto_I

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      Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I only mentioned the religions because that is what everyone seems to think is the problem on earth.
      
         If we could figure out what is the basic, basic fundamentals that the big three religions do have in common, an they focus on that.
         Disregard the rest even just for a little while. 
         And everyone consider that a lot of what has been temporarily set to the side  could possibly have originated from the political realm infecting religion.
      
        Something like that any way.
      
        It would be interesting if we could find out exactly what lies  at the foundational level of all these religions.
      and agree upon that.
         We might find out that it is very ...similar ...     to the Humanist Manifesto  I don't know cause I haven't read it.
      But its name sounds like it is a good thing.

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         Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Of course you haven't read it: it doesn't have any Imaginary Pals in it.
         
         But it is everything needed, without any  superstitious malarkey.

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            Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I don't have to read it to know that it is going to say the same things that most religions say that they believe in.
            
                Before they notice catchup on another's tie.
            And the fighting starts.

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         Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Why is this so hard? They all think they have the word of an Invisible Super Being that makes their way the only way. So - you get fights like this one:
         
         http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/60773
         
         Take away the common denominator that they know wot god sed and your problem is solved. Then we can sit down and rationally discuss a way of getting along with each other without fighting over who god sed it to.

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            Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            You are right about that cause God only talks to me and not them and they won't believe me.  That makes me SOoooo  angry.
                But I still love them   (hugs and kisses)
               So there is no point in me talking to them unless  the will hear ME! me   me
                 - - - - - - - -
               YEP  I have seen some of that.
            And have gotten a bit angry myself from time to time.   I am now coming to the conclusion that none of that really matters anyway CAUSE
            
              All the argueing in the world doesn't change a thing.
              We just do it to pass the time away while we are here on earth.  We think we are doing Gods work by keeping fire under the kettle. (not)

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            Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Which is what the Humanist Manifesto is - a basis for a RATIONAL discussion.
            
            But Jerami doesn't like rational - gods are so much better because you can pretend anything you like about them.

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               Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               And many others do not consider anything rational unless it agrees with their version of rational.

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                  Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  We all know what rational is, Jerami, and religion is definitely not.
                  
                  
                  There are no "versions".   If, for example, you state that "prayer works", we can test that and prove it false.   
                  
                  The biggest failure religion makes is lack of rationality.  For example, the idea of a creator.  Is it irrational to think that the Universe might have an external cause?  Well, we really don't know enough yet to say (though it is looking more and more that such a cause is not likely), but even if we do assume a cause, why assume that cause must be sentient?  There's no reason to assume that at all.
                  
                  But if you DO want to pursue that line, why asume a "god"?  Why not a fourth year physics student in another Universe who created this one as part of her studies? 
                  
                  Why not an accident by a bumbling janitor who slipped and hit a switch in a particle accelerator in another Universe? 
                  
                  Millions of possible explanations, but you focus on the most ridiculous one of all: a Sky Fairy who loves everybody to pieces (except the homos and the onanists and this one and that one, of course).
                  
                  Irrational, Jerami.  Completely irrational.

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                     Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     You are still putting everyone that does not believe exactly as you do, about every issue, into a very small pond.
                     
                        GOD, is whatever we want it to be.  For some it is a bottle of rum, for others it is a bass boat.
                        I am sure that you have a god!  Whatever or who ever you place the most , attention, time and effort, money etc is your God.
                       GOD, is whatever we want it to be.  For some it is a bottle of rum, for others it is a bass boat, or a six bedroom house, etc.
                       You may think that you know what everyone WORSHIPS the most but you don't.
                        You may not even know what it is for you.
                        Most people don't!

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                        Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        If you insist upon stripping words of any meaning, how can anyone have an intelligent conversation with you?
                        
                        You don't even believe that for a minute.  Your "god" is not inanimate, insentient.  Your "god" is not a manufactured product, is not even a product of evolution.
                        
                        By your logic, I can say that you are an atheist, because an atheist doesn't believe in gods and "gods" can be leprechauns or perpetual motion machines.
                        
                        I can also say that you are a small embroidered handkerchief, because if you can define words willy-nilly, so can any of us.
                        
                        So - now that you have shown yourself to be a carburetor, I think we should turn the conversation in another color and jump about the pollywogs in my coffee light bulb.  I'm sure that you will disassociate that this meandering is a worthy frog and needs our full embarrassment.
                        
                        So, Jerami: Do relinquishments always imply stochastic inversion?

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      pennyofheavenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Admiral indeed! . Interesting read!

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   Home Girlposted 13 years ago

   I cannot imagine myself worshiping anybody or anything.
   I cannot pray to anybody or anything.
   So I could repeat the previous question:
   Why does it have to be religion?

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      Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      As I said above.  Cause religion is what everyone seems to think needs to be fixed.
      
        Killing it isn't any better of an answer that what getitright
      added to the list of commonalities.

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         Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         No, we wouldn't want to kill it.
         
         Just let it die out on its own.

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   psycheskinnerposted 13 years ago

   Then perhaps start again and say 'commonalities between Christianity, Islam... and whatever you think the third one is.  Not "all".
   
   I think it would make more sense to think of what almost all people might agree on.  Like, try not to hurt other people.  Because that might be a nice place to start.

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      Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      If you are saying that I should have put this following sentence at the top of my OP it would have been better understood.
            "What would you say were the most important BASIC concepts that each religion could  agree upon". 
         
      Then I apologize.

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   Falsor Wingposted 13 years ago

   No I don't think there's any single thing they could all agree on. No matter how reasonable it seems at least one group is going to shit bricks, probably several.

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      Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Yep!  you are probably right.
      
         If three people went to the car lot, to buy a 2010 ford mustang, with a V-8 automatic transmission.
         And if all three had to agree upon a color or they didn't buy it...   They would all be going home the same way they got there. 
         Now that is sad.   I just wanted a Mustang and didn't care if it has a standard shift.

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7. 59

   Jeramiposted 13 years ago

   Metaphor alert.
   
       Why is it more important what color the leaves on the tree is;  THAN  how strong the trunk and limbs are.  Or where it was planted.
   
      Grandpa always said that Ya gotta shake off all the leaves
   (unimportant issues, lies and alibis)   before you can tell what the limb looks like. (the real issue)

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      Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      It's important if the tree doesn't actually exist.

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         Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         But we will never know that, till we shake or pull the leaves off of the invisible tree, if indeed it is invisible.

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8. 59

   katiem2posted 13 years ago

   Love, Admiration and Respect for your fellow human being is the universal language we can all agree on or relate to in a positive manner.
   
   Living a good example and being a good steward to what you believe is the most powerful and effective method by which to bring people to the light.
   
   
   Those convinced against their will are of the same opinion still and do have free will, that's the one thing your not to mess with.
   
   Peace

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9. 59

   Jeramiposted 13 years ago

   katiem2 wrote  ...
      Living a good example and being a good steward to what you believe is the most powerful and effective method by which to bring people to the light.
   - - - - - -
   
     Exactly,  to be a light to the world, for others to come if they choose.
   =====================================
   
     Those convinced against their will are of the same opinion still and he did give us free will, that's the one thing your not to mess with.
   
   - - - - -
   
     Those convinced against their will aren't really convinced.  They are only  half trained. 
      They/we  are in a much better condition, when left where they/we are than to be half way converted to any belief system.

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    psycheskinnerposted 13 years ago

    The idea of a Christian who has not read the Bible boggles my mind.  I am a life long atheist and have still read the bible right through a couple of times because it is a very important text in modern society and underlies a lot of our fine art, law and lay morality.

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       Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       see statement above.
       
          See how quickly people jump onto other peoples bandwagons?
       
          I did not say that I don't read  THE  BOOK.
       
       Beelzedad  twisted my words from a sarcastic innuendo into a confession of quilt.
          I am sure that I haven't heard the end of that, cause people will read his remark and immediately assume it to be true without reading the context of my original comment.
          
       
          It seems as though everyone is guilty of doing this

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          Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Again Jerami, the proof is in your posts, not in my remark.

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          Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          But we know that you really didn't read it.  You couldn't have and still defend it.  There are too many contradictions, too many obvious impossibilities.  No intelligent person can read that book and think that it is self consistent.

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             Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             OR  maybe it takes an intelligent person to read it and find what truth there there is still to be found within.
             
               We have to consider that the students (disciples) wrote down those things that they received the teacher was saying.
               These were then translated into another language while that person couldn't help but to utilize their interpretative skills while translating. 
             
                 And then a couple hundred years later a group of people picked only those writings that fit the best into their agenda.
             
                So what I have attempted to do is to pick only the dead leaves off of the limb,  searching for that which is still green.
             
                Then and only then should we disregard the whole thing.
             
             
               Kinda like one of the parables that is said to have been given by Jesus.
             
                The owner of the vineyard wanted to cut down those vines that produced no fruit.
               But the husbandman convinced the owner to allow him to prune the vine and see if it might then produce fruit.
             
                SO, shake off the dead leaves and see what is left.   
             
                I gotta go do a little bit of income work..
             Will bE back later.

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          stilljustwonderinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Jerami, any one who has read your post, or, your hubs know that you have not only read the Bible, but studied it.  Every one knows what Bekzie boy is doing.  Same thing he always does.  Just ridicule and mock believers.  How old do you think he is any way?  13?
          Oh wait!  The Bible said that will happen!

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             Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             Thank you for your personal insults. Considering that you've fabricated stories to support your irrational beliefs and have been caught doing so, those type of insults are expected.

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                stilljustwonderinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                You know all about insults.  Your the expert at doing so.
                
                What was an insult?  My questioning your age?  Do you believe you act like an adult on here?  I don't. 
                
                A fabrication is a lie.  I am not a liar.  If  you can't believe, there isn't anything I can do about that.

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                   Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                   Again, you are fabricating stories.
                   
                   
                   
                   I understand you have no idea what a personal insult comprises as it goes hand in hand with your belief system. Believers are taught to do so when others disagree with their beliefs as they are unable to think or debate the ideals of which they embrace.
                   
                   
                   
                   And yet, you've been caught so many times. 

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                      stilljustwonderinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                      You must find great enjoyment in insulting people.  You have done so all over the forums to any one who doesn't believe as you do.  Isn't that what a child does?
                      
                      Saying I am fabricating stores is saying I am telling a lie.  It says I am a liar.
                      I know I am not a liar.  Every one who knows me knows I am not a liar.  I have been told by different people that I am the most honest person they know.
                      
                      News Flash.  Just because you don't believe something doesn't mean it isn't so.

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11. 59

    Jeramiposted 13 years ago

    Pcunix wrote ..
      If you insist upon stripping words of any meaning, how can anyone have an intelligent conversation with you?
    - - - - -
    
        If you refuse to understand others intentions implied in their statements I guess there will be no intelligent conversation.
    
      =========================================
    
    
    You don't even believe that for a minute.  Your "god" is not inanimate, insentient.  Your "god" is not a manufactured product, is not even a product of evolution.
    - - - -
    
       I wasn't talking about what my god is.
    I was speaking of what the word god means. There are many concepts as to what god/GOD is.
       You are speaking of the persona of GOD, which is a different matter.   And is hard to pinpoint as to what that is, even when speaking in terms of a single denomination within a particular sect.
    
       For you to assume that you know the exactly identity  of that which I place my faith, is not logical. 
      So you want to tag it, wrap it and send it to me  and criticize me for having it.       
    
       If that makes you feel better about yourself ?
       I am happy that I am here for ya.
       
    ========================================== 
    By your logic, I can say that you are an atheist, because an atheist doesn't believe in gods and "gods" can be leprechauns or perpetual motion machines.
    
    I can also say that you are a small embroidered handkerchief, because if you can define words willy-nilly, so can any of us.
    
    So - now that you have shown yourself to be a carburetor, I think we should turn the conversation in another color and jump about the pollywogs in my coffee light bulb.  I'm sure that you will disassociate that this meandering is a worthy frog and needs our full embarrassment.
    
    So, Jerami: Do relinquishments always imply stochastic inversion?
    
    
    - - - - - - -
    
        Now why didn't you say that in the first place?   
    It all comes back to me now,  as I spit into the wind.
    And when I pee straight UP

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    Pcunixposted 13 years ago

    Jerami:
    
    PLEASE learn how to quote other peoples words.  It's hard enough to follow you without mixing everything together like that.
    
    It's really not hard. I'm sure you can figure it out.

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    NewYorkerposted 13 years ago

    Two things people will never agree on: Religion and Politics!

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    stilljustwonderinposted 13 years ago

    Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
    
    Any one of any religion, or no religion, should agree with that.

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       NewYorkerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Thank you!

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          canadawest99posted 13 years agoin reply to this

          'thou shall not kill each other'....hmmm, .then again maybe not.   Humans have shown over the millenia they have no problem killing each other even under the threat of hell.   Even the religious ones like to kill.

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