Judgement

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   pennyofheavenposted 14 years ago

   I asked this in Q&A as well. When the bible says do not judge what does that mean, do not judge other Christians or do not judge full stop.
   
   A few of the answers that stood out for me, I thought, might warrant further discussion
   
   Judgment is an ambiguous word, in Greek as in English - the Greek word for judge is “krino” or “krima” - the Greek word (diakrisis) actually means discernment: enlightened. - In his Spirit of Truth, we are called to judge with diakrisis,
   
   **********************
   
   Do not judge .....
   
   Once your judgement is not Truth then you make yourself false.
   
   and even when you do know Truth, you will also understand all things and need not judge anyone at all anyway.
   
   *************************
   
   In the bible " do not judge" means just that, toward anyone or anything for what ever reason. To be judged, is really only GOD'S job.
   
   ***************************
   
   So anything to discuss?

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      Shahid Bukhariposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Merry Christmas
      
      Remember ... When, Jesus, the Savior, said :
      
      '' Lord, forgive them, for they know not, what they do "
      
      Because, only The Lord, Knows, thus The only One, Who can Judge ...  because, to err, is Human.

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         pennyofheavenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Merry Christmas to you!

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   2. 59

      qwarkposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Penny:
      As the TV series notes: "There are a thousand ways to die."
      You make many "judgements" every day just to stay alive.
      Making "judgements" is one of the most important facets of survival.
      "Thou shalt not judge" would be suicidal!
      But then this mythical, biblical god thing didn't create us to last forever. so what the hell! Don't make any judgements and test "his" system. See how long ya last.
      Qwark  :

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      1. 83

         pennyofheavenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Yes agree it is useful to survive. If we didn't judge how hot a bath was there would be  consequences. However judging human behavior does not affect the way we exist in any way unless we choose it to affect us Do you think that if we cannot judge someone it is a reason for suicide? How so? Forget the myth for a minute  and tell me how it is not useful to not judge another?

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2. 79

   aka-djposted 14 years ago

   I think it's mostly an issue of superiority.
   To judge another is to put yourself above the other.
   
   We are told to consider others better than ourselves, in the sense of " we should love and serve", which is to put ones self "under" and not "over" the other.
   
   However, we are also instructed to make righteous judgments. Whether it be about others, or issues, we need to use wisdom in all our efforts. By love, we are to put others best interest ahead of our own.

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      pennyofheavenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Yes that makes sense.

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      Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      We should put the well being of others before our own, without becoming like the old cartoon Chip & Dale.
      
        Nor are we suposed to throw our pearls before swine.
      
        Middle ground is difficult to find.

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         pennyofheavenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         If we know ourselves well, we are less likely to judge another. Therefore we would be putting people before ourselves not at the expense of ourselves but because it arise naturally.

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            Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I have never liked that word ..  judging .. 
            Discernment  concerning the aspect of compatibility, maybe?
            
              But to Judge concerning worth of another and even ourselves is something that should be avoided at all cost, when possible?  But sometimes people won’t let you do that.
            Sometimes, there is action in inaction.

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               pennyofheavenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Yes agree there is action in inaction.. Judgement is a loaded word. It can be useful in some instances  but it ceases to be useful when it comes to a persons behavior or worth including ourselves and is is best avoided. I do agree.

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   3. 57

      Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      By your own words, you are instructed to put yourself above others, hence it is mostly an issue of righteous superiority.
      
      According to you, of course.

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         hanging outposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         wrong again... buzzzzzzz. thanks for playin...
         
         we are not instructed to put ourselves above others, we are instructed to be meek and humble and NOT allow pride to rule us.
         
         you judge others and the world by your own doings please remember that christians try to attain things that people like you have no time for and also remember that we try to attain these things without personal congratulations. If you think these traits are automatic or that they cannot sneak up on a christian unawares then you would be wrong in that, so to totally rearrange your incorrect inference, righteous superiority belonged to the pharisees and not to the christians.

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            Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Oh, but you do, all the time.

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3. 77

   DoubleScorpionposted 14 years ago

   If we work everyday trying to live right, and keeping ourselves in order. We don't have time to judge other people.

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      Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      That is right!   If we are taking care of the things of our own that need taken care of, we wouldn't have so much time to be watching everyone else.

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4. 57

   exorterposted 14 years ago

   I think there is a difference in judging and knowing someone to be wrong
   when you put what you know about someone being wrong into words to others, that is judging
   God sent Jona to ninava to talk to them,
   God did not say go and tell others about them

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5. 50

   LadyRiceposted 14 years ago

   Christians are usually accused of "judging" people whenever they speak out against sinful activity. This is not what Matthew 7:1 is really talking about. When it states in Matthew 7:1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged." it is talking about judging hypocritically. A lot of people will speak out against someone sining yet, are doing the same thing they are doing or even worse! This is what Jesus does NOT want us to do.
   
   However, He DOES want us to lovingly correct wrongdoing or sinful behavior. In Matthew 18:15-17 it states, "“If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses". This is speaking the truth in love (Ephesians 4:5) and in doing so is helping the person out and spreading the Gospel.
   
   James 5:20 "remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins."
   
   2 Timothy 4:2 "Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction."

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   1. 79

      aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I see this as applying primarily amongst believers.
      I don't see much in the way of rebuking unbelievers.
      If we live/preach righteousness, they are, or should be convicted by the work of the Holy Spirit.
      
      Our message is one of love and acceptance. I am not insensitive to the reality that it's not always received that way. Perception is in the eye of the beholder. I said one thing, but you heard something totally different...kind of thing.

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   2. 83

      pennyofheavenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      So in your opinion it is okay to judge if you are sinless. What happens if you believe you are sinless, but you really aren't and make a judgement?
      
      Usually judgments are made from within the parameters of our own perceptions. Meaning...If our perceptions are tainted, the person we are judging, is merely a reflection of what we do not like about ourselves or what we have not yet resolved within ourselves.
      
      If we know ourselves well, then we are less likely to judge.

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         exorterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         no one is sinless, I can see the moat in your eye, but can not see the beam in my own eye.
         this is the reason we need to admonish one another,
         by working together we can be stronger Christians.

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            pennyofheavenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Can you really see the moat in another's eye?

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6. 50

   LadyRiceposted 14 years ago

   @Pennyofheaven ...I don't think anyone is sinless and if someone believes they are then they are delusional. We all fall short of the grace of God. However, I think that verse is saying don't judge hypocritically, for example if you are having sex out of wedlock and you start rebuking someone else you know who is also having sex out of wedlock then you are a hypocrite! Yet, if you are NOT having sex out of wedlock and someone you know is (who is a Christian) then if given the opportunity you could lovingly speak to them and encourage them.   
   
   Christians should be gently correcting each other as Galatians 6:1 states " 1 Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently..."

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      exorterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      in order to be the body of believers,(the body of Christ) that we are to be, then we must help each other to be better Christians,
      if you keep the whole law yet offend in one point, you are guilty of all.
      I was in church one night and the speaker spoke against another denomination, which is a sin, so I spoke to the speaker about it, I had never heard the speaker say or do anything against the word of God before.
      a real good Christian other than that,
      we must be our brothers keeper

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   2. 59

      mom101posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      ladyrice, i understand what you are saying, but is it right?
      
      If we are to be Christ-like, that theory has holes.
      
      Jesus, perfect, all powerful. He did not judge. Period.
      
      So, that tells me we are not to judge.
      
      Just my opinion.

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   3. 83

      pennyofheavenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Oh ok

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7. 67

   Flightkeeperposted 14 years ago

   I take that phrase to mean not to make rash judgments, meaning that you shouldn't think the worst of people and condemning them based on your own worst interpretation of the situation.  I am guilty of this too often.

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      exorterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      one of the main steps of being Christian is admitting we make mistakes, If any one thinks they are flawless I do not think they are being the best person they can be

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         Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         So true, but at some point I really should break this bad habit

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            exorterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I smoke, doctors has said it would be the perfect drug if it did not cause cancer. if I tried to quit smoking I believe my tongue would keep getting me in trouble with the Word. almost 40 years ago I came out of Vietnam with problems and smoking helps as much as any pill the doc's have given me.
            as far as taking something harmful into your body, you can not open a can of corn for dinner. so I guess I will keep smoking until my life settles down a lot better

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8. 0

   brotheryochananposted 14 years ago

   judging is to pass a sentence upon another.. if you do that you will go to hell... go to hell is the sentence. If we judge others harshly we will be judged harshly in return.
   
   There is no problem with assessing a situation..
   
   Judgement is used in a judicial court like manner.
   we are not to assume the office of God.
   
   i can assess a situation .. "all atheists are going to hell because they blaspheme God and grieve the Holy spirit of God".
   in judgement.. "atheists are going to hell".
   The first situation is dealt with reasonably. Reasons are given and no condemnation is passed. The second situation is harsh and without love and condemns.

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      Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      While I understand that it is your particular beliefs that have motivated you to opine about judgment and hell and share them here, it would be prudent to not forget this little gem while doing so:
      
      "we are not to assume the office of God."
      
      Perhaps, we can see if you have in fact adhered to your own principles.
      
      
      
      Well, it looks like the boundaries have been breached. Here's another way of looking at it if we were also to assess such a situation.
      
      In passing judgment, god tells the atheist that he is pleased he used the brains he was given to ask questions about gods and religions, to seek out and find the truth so many have claimed to be the word of god, but have failed in presenting it.
      
      God can see it isn't the fault of the atheist who has not found a god as he has tried hard to seek him, has asked many questions and received many different answers.
      
      No, it is those people who provided those answers that will be dealt harshly as they have led the atheist down many false paths in their selfish attempts to "assume the office of God."
      
      

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         hanging outposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Nobody has failed at presenting the word of God but those without understanding have failed to grasp its meaning. God will never thank an atheist, in this you are completely wrong.
         If i say its lovely in paris and i think of the Eiffel Tower on a sunny day and you think of the west bank in autumn, neither picture is wrong, both days are beautiful but if you think grey skies and freezing rain in contrast with my original statement you would be wrong, your interpretation would be wrong and that is what god will judge about.
         Its not about what we say, those that have ears to hear, hear and eyes to see, see. Those that are blind and have hard hearts will never see unless some miracle happens.
         This is why God warns about falling to deep in sin, it is very hard to get out of. For example.. a person loves tatoos and snakes and so gets tattoos of snakes all over them and then comes into contact with a christian. Do you think those tattoos are gonna have some influence? A little thing like tattoos can influence some people. We are not responsible for this either.
         Since you have decided that God does not exist, God will not thank you for that.
         
         i see you do not understand what i meant by assuming the office of God either and once again context is completely missing.

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            Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I got to this point and realized you were speaking gibberish.

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9. 57

   exorterposted 14 years ago

   any one who is condemning anyone is guilty of judgement, anyone can find our Lord, nonbelievers, gays, anyone can find their way.
   who is or who is not going to hell is not our call.
   Jesus did not die on the cross for the righteous, He died for the sinners, through that mercy that Jesus showed, everyone can find their way to Him, If we make comments about someone going to hell, we are speaking against someone and the word says do not do that. The Word says you keep the whole law yet offend in one point, you are guilty of breaking all.
   talking about someone is gossip, the word says if you gossip about someone, you can not go to Heaven, unless you go to Jesus and ask forgiveness and not doing it again

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      Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Malicious gossip of another person is character assassination.(Murder)
      
        And every 0z. of judgment, and hate that we cast forth  will come back and land upon our own heads.
      
         At the time of judgment ...  we judge ourselves in this manner.
      
        At least that is what I think.

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         exorterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         you bet ya

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10. 60

    ediggityposted 14 years ago

    I think it's pretty cut and dry, don't judge others at all.  The only one doing the judging that matters is GOD, so stand by.

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11. 59

    kessposted 14 years ago

    Guys please understand this.
    
    The question is not whether a man should condemn or not condemn judge or not judge.
    
    For even to say to another  "you do not judge" is to pass a judgement.
    
    Remember all who are in the dark will do the works of darkness, and those works will end in bringing condemnation upon themselves.
    And this was intended and also expected.
    
    Now the question is all about knowing  "Truth", which is the light.
    
    Now this light gives you freedom.. why?
    
    Because while in the flesh it may become neccessary for you to pass Judgement. So then your judgement is just because you know Truth and all things.
    
    So the question is not whether to Judge or not Judge...But rather...
    
    Do you Know Truth?
    
    By this knowledge you are excused which so ever way you go.
    
    So we see Truth as the beginning and also the end.
    
    This is the faith of God and His Christ.

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       pennyofheavenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Here is the thing. Ones truth is not necessarily anothers. If the tendency to judge arises it is more likely to arise from what "we" hold to be true. Truth is subjective and is contingent on many thing including and not limited to, that which is learned, that which is conditioned and that which is naturally arising.
       
       To not judge then makes pure sense. We do not see "the" big picture no matter how much we "think" we know the truth. We cannot assume or propose to know why one does what one does unless we could see all the variables that make them do what they do. I do not know any one that see's all these variables so it makes pure sense not to judge. If..... we did see the variables we are less likely to judge anyway. We will be more compassion because we will know how they have arrived at what they have.

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          china manposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          maybe this is why you go round in circles so much - Truth is not subjective it is when something is true.  You and I have different opinions about pretty much everything it would appear, but if something that we have an opinion about is true then it is true regardless of you or me.

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             pennyofheavenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Haha maybe? Apart from the obvious like a chair is a chair, who determines what is true? You me or none of the above?

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                china manposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                So we agree it is a chair - but - how can you prove it is a chair ?

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                   pennyofheavenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   Exactly.

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                      china manposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                      Not exactly no - to prove it IS a chair we have to agree some qualification for what makes a chair - lets say
                      1. we can sit on it,
                      2. it has something to put our back against
                      3. we can agree 1 and 2, unless you would like to add or dispute anything ?

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                         exorterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                         you can sit on the hood of a can and lean back on the windshield, is it a chair?

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                         pennyofheavenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                         "you can sit on the hood of a can and lean back on the windshield, is it a chair?"
                         
                         Do I need to add to this?

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                            exorterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                            aluminum is aluminum
                            
                            guess I should have had my glasses on HUH?

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                               pennyofheavenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                               Huh? I saw the logic in your illustration. What are you meaning. The question was addressed to china man.

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12. 75

    arbposted 14 years ago

    It appears that there is a lot of negative connotation associated with the word judgement, which should not be confused with condemnation. Our lives are rooted in observation, in drawing conclusions and in making judgement, indeed, it is the food which feeds opinion. It is a parents responsibility to pass judgement(not on the child-on the behavior) and to invoke discipline for the purpose of correction. I am not sure why (passing) is always attached to the word judgement for it implies "the person rather than the action or behavior). Making judgements is as natural as breathing. Sharing judgement is another matter and should certainly, be guided by discretion. I can't read a thread without finding judgement, usually directed at someone's thought process. Judgement doesn't have to be critical or negative, it can have very noble purpose. Part of our problem and judgement, is that we are not as open to constructive criticism as we would pretend. Judgement is necessary,but, our skill in employing it, is the difference between reception and rejection.

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       exorterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       do not judge others' actions, just spread the word,
       I have corrected others, I do that by giving them the word and asking, if it can be applied to what is being done or said
       if I see someone lying in the ditch, I am not to just walk by, I am to warn them

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    2. 83

       pennyofheavenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       I see it a little differently, judgement is not as natural as breathing. Children do not talk to strangers because they are taught that. Whilst this teaching may be useful, the child learns how to judge. A child in their innocence trust, they do not judge others, except if they are taught it.

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          arbposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          The man has candy! Mom says not to talk to strangers. The child, in their innocence, will make a judgement.

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             pennyofheavenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Yes

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             hanging outposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             no the child will make a decision. The judgment would be of the adult watching and rushing in to protect the child when no protection is needed. He is just getting rid of extra candy with no strings attached.

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13. 0

    china manposted 14 years ago

    Judgement can only be made by someone who has good knowledge of the issue being judged.
    
    that's christians ruled out altogether then ?
    
    Happy christmas to all my Atheist, non-proselytising Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, English, Chinese, Indian, Algerian, and even my American friends, and EVEN SomeWayOutahHere - who I haven't seen for some time ?????

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14. 92

    habeeposted 14 years ago

    According to a friend of mine who's a Methodist minister, all sin is equal in the sight of God. So for Christians who sin - which includes EVERYONE - we're just as guilty as those whom we perceive as committing "worse" sins. We are not superior. It's not our right to judge others, and it's not our job. Our job is to show love, compassion, tolerance, and understanding. If all Christians really tried to emulate Jesus, the world would be a much better place!

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       pennyofheavenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       According to some too. What we judge is what we do not like about ourselves. So if we knew ourselves well, and like who we are, why would we judge.

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          Druid Dudeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Penny is lining up with the landing strip. TOUCHDOWN! )

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       Druid Dudeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Oh Christmas tree, oh, Christmas tree. Gaelic traditions are kinda cool, but we liked to choose living trees and let them live after the season. Cutting down ancient entities wasn't our dig. DIG? Happy Christmas! Peace

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    hanging outposted 13 years ago

    judgment is the word krino in greek. This means
    5) to judge
       a) to pronounce an opinion concerning right and wrong
    1) to be judged, i.e. summoned to trial that one's case may be examined and judgment passed upon it
       b) to pronounce judgment, to subject to censure
    1) of those who act the part of judges or arbiters in matters of common life, or pass judgment on the deeds and words of others
    6) to rule, govern
    a) to preside over with the power of giving judicial decisions, because it was the prerogative of kings and rulers to pass judgment
    7) to contend together, of warriors and combatants
       a) to dispute
       b) in a forensic sense
    1) to go to law, have suit at law
    
    there is a difference between this word and assessing a situation. How are we to reprove works of darkness if we cannot in any definition judge.. well we do not judge, judging is the 'office of God' BUT we can assess a situation and take it to prayer or rebuke a worker of iniquity without passing a judgment, we merely assess the situation.

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