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As a Christian do you think it is your duty to judge others?

  1. profile image0
    SandCastlesposted 3 years ago

    http://s1.hubimg.com/u/9007056_f520.jpg
    From what I've read in the bible, we are to identify wrong behaviours and speak up but we are not to play judge because that makes us prideful and reluctant to take the beam out of our own eye. Many Christians insist that it is their duty to judge and they end up judging everyone about everything. To me they are playing God. The bible says, "There is only one Lawgiver and judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you-who are you to judge your neighbour?"(James 4:12).  To judge is not the same as to speak up. To judge means the judger acts superior but how often do they acknowledge their own mistakes when they are in the judgment seat? Judging makes a person prideful, unmerciful and blind to their own faults.

    1. profile image0
      Motown2Chitownposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      SC, I personally feel that as a Christian, it's only my duty to do what Jesus told me do, which is to love God and love others.  I also think it's important to do the best I can to avoid doing those things he told us not to do - like judging, especially because we are judged equally by others according to the standards to which we hold them.  I don't believe any human being is fundamentally incapable of judgment...we all do it, whether we mean to or not.  But I'm of the firm belief that most of what we think should be kept where it's thought, and not necessarily shared with the rest of the world.  smile

      1. profile image0
        SandCastlesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        I agree, judging is about self-puffery not love.

    2. profile image0
      Emile Rposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      You are supposed to identify wrong behavior and speak out? I'm not certain I see the fundamental difference in how that would be perceived by others and if you were pronouncing judgment. You are observing something, deciding that it is 'wrong' and commenting to that effect.

      I think that's the problem. You make a statement, you don't consider it judgmental, but to the observer it appears to be judgmental. So they judge your statement and then attempt to observe your actions to decide if you are in a position to make what they perceive as a judgment. Whether you judged, or not, you have set the ball of judgment in perpetual motion.

      I think we are to judge our own actions. We should familiarize ourselves with how much leeway we allow; how many 'special circumstances' we are willing to argue in defense of; how much we forgive ourselves and how far back we are willing to go in the chain of events to attempt to find the justification for our actions; and we should be completely familiar with what wrong actions we forgive in ourselves (because we cannot help committing them) in light of all of our right actions that offset them.

      Then, we should commit all of that to memory. I think, when we observe others we should reflect on what we have learned about ourselves and not speak out unless we are completely sure that we are giving the individual involved the complete benefit of the doubt we have found to be our habit when viewing our own actions.

      Even then, we should probably be inclined to be silent since we all know that most of us have a blind spot when attempting to understand ourselves.

      I'm not arguing in defense of a belief that there is no right and no wrong. I simply think almost every action has good and bad within it. We search for the good in ourselves. Why search for the bad in others?

      1. profile image0
        Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        +1

      2. profile image0
        SandCastlesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        You wrote: "You are observing something, deciding that it is 'wrong' and commenting to that effect".  Exactly.   

        "but to the observer it appears to be judgmental". Perhaps. But it really comes down to how something is said too. If you just swoop into a situation pointing a finger, that is arrogant. Maybe you are mistaken. But to never speak up is cowardly. Sometimes people have to speak up. You might end up helping someone. You might prevent someone or an animal from being harmed. You might learn that you were wrong about the situation.

        I don't think a person has to be perfect before they can speak up. A person must work on themselves and if they see something that they perceive to be wrong. For example, there is nothing wrong with them saying, "Excuse me, is it safe to leave your baby in the car like that in the blazing heat unattended?"  The parent might become offended by the comment but who cares if it saves the baby. The person might have to go and tell someone else if they think the baby is in danger.  That isn't searching for bad in others; it is seeing a bad situation and doing something about it. But judging means you say, "You scum of a parent, you lowlife, how could you do such a rotten thing...."; and it is about the judger feeling superior and has nothing at all to do with improving the situation.

        Again, I do not think we have to remain silent because we are not perfect ourselves. Nope; if people speak up, people learn from each other.

        1. EncephaloiDead profile image60
          EncephaloiDeadposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Yes, we learn that those who "speak up" (condemn others) are behaving like selfish hypocrites, hence they should indeed remain silent.

    3. EncephaloiDead profile image60
      EncephaloiDeadposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Okay, so what in your opinion does it mean to "speak up"?

      1. profile image0
        SandCastlesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Speaking up means when you see something that is wrong you say something about it or you do something about it but not in judgment. To say or do something in judgment means it is about the person's ego; it is about making a big show to look good, "Hey, everybody look at me". And there is danger in that because people who are ego driven are so eager to judge that they go on wild goose chases, condemning people holus-bolus, jumping on bandwagons. They are the types who condemn a book that they've never read because they heard it had witchcraft in it or something offensive.

        1. profile image0
          SandCastlesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          When you see something that is wrong: if you think it is wrong, you speak up. You might not be correct in your observation even but speaking up clarifies situations and it could help someone.

          1. EncephaloiDead profile image60
            EncephaloiDeadposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Judging others does not help them.

            People clarify before speaking up, not after.

            1. profile image0
              SandCastlesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Not necessarily; sometimes a person speaks up to someone to get clarity or understanding about a situation.

              1. EncephaloiDead profile image60
                EncephaloiDeadposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                That is something completely different, that would be asking a question.

        2. EncephaloiDead profile image60
          EncephaloiDeadposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Here is the definition of judgment:

          - the ability to judge, make a decision, or form an opinion objectively, authoritatively, and wisely, especially in matters affecting action; good sense; discretion: a man of sound judgment.
          - the demonstration or exercise of such ability or capacity


          Notice there is nothing whatsoever concerning egos or making a big show. Making a judgment means to form an opinion on something, which is exactly the same thing as when "you see something that is wrong you say something about it or you do something about it ".  You have already made a judgment when you speak up about something you think is wrong.



          But, that is exactly what you're promoting when you decide to judge and condemn others, that IS an act of someone who is ego driven. They are making it about what they want as opposed to what others want for themselves.

          1. profile image0
            SandCastlesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Sorry but that one definition does not define judging the way I am talking about it. Just because you found a definition in the dictionary does not mean that people do not judge others based on ego, power, unfairness, and making a big show or how naive are you? If it's in print that means everybody follows the rules.  Judging something as wrong is not the type of judgment I am talking about (also there are things are that wrong to most people (except for the anti-social people that is). And if someone harms someone beats up an old lady and tries to steal her purse and someone intervenes and speaks up to that person, that has NOTHING to do with being ego driven; it is being decent and helping a vulnerable person. And perhaps the actions of the person beating up on the old lady deserve to be condemned. But obviously you never speak up to anyone because you are too afraid of offending someone and are too afraid you'll be accused of being judging and condemning to the point that you allow someone to be evil. Well, that's your choice. But I'd feel sorry if you had kids. "Sorry Billy, if that man wants to harm you, there's nothing I can really do about it. I don't want to be condemning. So just take it while I offer him a tea".

            1. EncephaloiDead profile image60
              EncephaloiDeadposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Yeah, it does, perfectly.



              True, but those things are not part of the definition of judging, they are something that can be based on judgments.



              Yeah, it is.



              You're now talking about something completely different, which is theft, which is a crime, which has already been shown to be a judgment of criminal law.



              Uh, there are laws governing theft, did you not know that?



              Uh, people usually call the police, did you not know that?

              Sorry, but you're now talking about something completely different not even related to the subject matter.

              1. profile image0
                SandCastlesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                That's your opinion and you have a right to it. Of course people usually call the police but what if time was of the essence, you wouldn't do anything to get the kid out of the situation?

                You seem closed minded to me. You have one way of thinking and think that is the only way (your way). Like with the dictionary definition; it does not make perfect sense to me. And by the way there is another version of judge in the dictionary that you did not mention, "to critcize or condemn" (Random House dictionary). True, this judging definition is used mostly in religious contexts now (see bible and judging). And my question did start off, "As a Christian" so do not use a secular definition of judgment and try to push it on me.   

                The point of my forum is the difference between speaking up as apposed to judging someone. In the bible, we are told to speak up to someone who is harming themselves or others but judging is another matter. Judging means playing God. Judging means we decide the worth of that person; we see them as worthless to make ourselves feel superior.  For example,a poor student goes to the food bank one year (a charitable place that gives you food when you are in desperate times). And the person working for the charitable organization says, "What are you a bum? Don't you work. You're a student? Well get a part time job then. You know, we volunteer here you know. We don't get paid you know". She is judging, making assumptions. The student volunteered and worked but was in desperate times but she assumed that she knew best. The worker wasn't speaking up; that person was judging the other person's character.   

                We obviously have different definitions of judging so you stick to your definition and I will stick to mine. I think that it is okay to speak up and clarify. I think it shows concern and bravery. I think that speaking up should be tempered with kindness and should have nothing to do with ego because ego is judging (to judge, to look down on, to think one is superior).

                1. EncephaloiDead profile image60
                  EncephaloiDeadposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  What does that have to do with your judging and condemning of others?



                  What does that have to do with your judging and condemning of others?



                  That doesn't change the fact that the word is defined that way.



                  I am using the correct definition.



                  You have no right to do that. Is someone is being harmed, call the police. It is not your place to judge others.



                  That is what you're doing, playing God.



                  Please see the definition of judging, it appears you still don't understand it.



                  What does that have to do with your judging and condemning of others?



                  No, there is the common definition that everyone knows and there is the version you made up for yourself. Making up definitions to words does not give you the right to justify judging others.



                  No, it shows disrespect for others and selfishness.



                  Or, you could just stop judging others and mind your own business. smile

    4. Efficient Admin profile image93
      Efficient Adminposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      No. I think we are to use discernment with people.  You have to judge people in order to use discernment, but to look down on someone else in superiority - No way.  To love people is to make a conscience effort to not harm them in any way and to treat them with respect.  It doesn't mean you have to agree with them.  It doesn't mean you have to like being around them. I feel it's our duty to look at everybody and see that Christ died for them too and God doesn't make junk, to view every human as valuable the way Christ does.  Are there some evil mean people I would like to slap?  YES.  But God will avenge don't worry. It's not my duty to get revenge either.  Do any of us know judgemental people (Christian AND Non-christian?).  They are no fun to be around and if a Christian behaves that way it makes all Christians look bad.

      1. profile image0
        SandCastlesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        I agree with you Efficient Admin, looking down on someone and acting superior is what judgment is all about.

    5. Chris Remmie profile image76
      Chris Remmieposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      1 Corinthians 5:9-13 ESV "I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people—not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”"

      This is what Scripture actually has to say about it. We are not to judge unbelievers because correction from the law does them no good. A non-believer could repent from every sin in their life and be a "good" person yet in the end they still go to hell in judgment. Why? Because they have not given themselves over to Christ for the forgiveness of sins. Rebuking the unbeliever is pointless. Outwardly obeying the law without having the gospel (having faith in Jesus Christ) is no better than outwardly breaking the law without having the gospel.
      In this passage Paul tells us that we are not to rebuke the outsider but that we should judge and rebuke those who profess Jesus as Lord. However, we are not to judge them to condemnation but with love and gentleness. In Galatians 6:1 he states "Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness." This calls for a correction or rebuke in a spirit of gentleness not in a spirit of condemnation. Paul calls those "who are spiritual" to restore a brother. This can be seen as a person who has, as Jesus has mentioned, taken the log out of his own eye so that he can clearly see the speck in his brother's eye (Matt 7:3-5). This is someone who is mature in his/her spiritual walk through sanctification and not one who is young in the faith. To restore someone with a spirit of gentleness means to address the transgressor by exposing their sin (see Eph 5:11) for the purpose of repentance and restoration to the faith--not to condemn, gossip, or slander them. This is a good and godly thing that is to be taken with discernment, contemplation, and prayer. Prayer is also helpful for the one confronting so that s/he would have discernment in his/her choice of words. There is an ungodly form of judging where someone points out a sin with disgust, hatred, or condemnation. This is done without the purpose of restoration but through pride and self-righteousness. Obviously, God is not pleased with this form of judgment.

      We are not to go around pointing fingers to shame everyone with our noses high, but we are to realize that we too are sinners in need of a savior while lovingly telling our brothers and sisters that they have strayed from the will of God in their walk.

      Again Paul says, "As for you, brothers, do not grow weary in doing good. If anyone does not obey what we say in this letter, take note of that person, and have nothing to do with him, that he may be ashamed. Do not regard him as an enemy, but warn him as a brother"(2 Thess 3:13-15). These are harsh words but this is a form of church discipline that we do not see much of today. However, excommunication or ostracizing should only occur when they refuse to repent and justify their sinning. We are told to consider them as an unbeliever.

      1. profile image0
        SandCastlesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        You wrote: To restore someone with a spirit of gentleness means to address the transgressor by exposing their sin (see Eph 5:11) for the purpose of repentance and restoration to the faith--not to condemn, gossip, or slander them.   This is true and is an example of speaking up not judging. The judging person doesn't even want the person they are judging to improve because they enjoy judging too much. And often people who judge do slander; they want the worst to be true even when it isn't true because they get so much joy wielding power over others.

        1. Chris Remmie profile image76
          Chris Remmieposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Exactly right. This is hypocritical to the faith which then the one judging ought to be corrected in gentleness. A misconception is that people think that Christians are perfect or become perfect; however, we are just as prone to make mistakes and bad choices like anyone else. We are in need of God's mercy and grace daily like everyone else.

          1. EncephaloiDead profile image60
            EncephaloiDeadposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Then, allow me to gently correct your mistakes and bad choices. Please stop condemning others.

            1. Efficient Admin profile image93
              Efficient Adminposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              With all due respect EncephaloiDead, I do not see where Chris Rimmie was being condemning towards others.

              1. EncephaloiDead profile image60
                EncephaloiDeadposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Right here, plain as an azure sky...

      2. EncephaloiDead profile image60
        EncephaloiDeadposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        This is why we reject that part of Scriptures, and not just non-believers, but other Christians who know very well that to be Christ-like IS to be a good person and not worry about correcting others, it is not their place to judge others when they themselves can't even meet the basic principles Christ was trying to teach.



        But, if they are a good person, they therefore aren't committing any sins, hence they need no forgiveness. They can still read the Bible themselves, read the principles Christ was trying to teach and live their lives accordingly. They may very well find principles in other philosophies aside from Christianity and add them to their lifestyle.

        Why then the need for forgiveness?



        As is reasoning with the believer who focuses on rebuking others instead of following the principles Christ was trying to teach.



        The problem with that is the believer who focuses on rebuking others with the gospel rather than living the principles being taught to them by the gospel.



        There is no love in condemning others, no matter how gentle the blow. Forget about focusing on condemning others and try to live the principles Christ taught, instead.



        The log in his own eye IS the act of correction or rebuking others.



        But, that is not the business of anyone but the person themselves, if they wish to seek out restoration, they can do it themselves.



        No, it is not a good thing, it only causes conflict.



        No one is pleased with any form of judgment towards them because it is often viewed as disgust, hatred and condemnation.



        But, that is exactly how it is perceived.



        That is called hypocrisy. Look up the word if you wish to understand it.



        That kind of behavior is not Christ-like at all. You are not following Christ, you are following Paul.

        1. Chris Remmie profile image76
          Chris Remmieposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          God's word through the Holy Spirit is not limited to Jesus' words nor do His words conflict with any of the other apostles/writers (i.e., Paul, Peter, James, Jude). They are all inspired by the Holy Spirit, and their writings are just as inspired as Jesus''.

          1. EncephaloiDead profile image60
            EncephaloiDeadposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Gee, thanks for the sermon, do you actually have anything of value to say?

            1. profile image0
              SandCastlesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              I think Chris has many valid things to say.

        2. profile image0
          SandCastlesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Correcting and condeming are not the same thing though sometimes actions should be condemned.

          1. EncephaloiDead profile image60
            EncephaloiDeadposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Sorry, but you have no right to correct or condemn others.

            1. profile image0
              SandCastlesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Yes, sometimes actions should be condemned. And people do have the right to correct others (that is called being assertive). In the movie, "It's A wonderful Life", the character George Bailey corrects the druggist Mr. Gower, preventing him from putting poison in someone's medicine. He speaks up and in speaking up, he prevented a death. What a wonderful, courageous boy George was and though at first Mr. Gower was furious for being corrected, when he saw what he was about to do, he broke down and cried and thanked George. But you have a right to your opinions but you can't push them on me.

              1. EncephaloiDead profile image60
                EncephaloiDeadposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                No, they don't have that right.



                What does that have to do with judging and condemning others?



                Then, you also have a right to your opinions but you can't push them on others. See how that works? smile

    6. Say Yes To Life profile image88
      Say Yes To Lifeposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I will place here some Bible quotes, and leave everyone to sort things out for themselves:
      Matthew Chapter Seven
      [1]
      "Judge not, that you be not judged.

      [2] For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get.
      [3] Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?
      [4] Or how can you say to your brother, `Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when there is the log in your own eye?
      [5] You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. "
      Matthew Chapter Eighteen
      [15]
      "If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother.

      [16] But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every word may be confirmed by the evidence of two or three witnesses.
      [17] If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.
      Matthew Chapter Seven
      [6]
      "Do not give dogs what is holy; and do not throw your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under foot and turn to attack you.

  2. profile image60
    CaliMamaposted 3 years ago

    Great question!  I am a Christian, but I realize fully that not everyone is. Also, prior to becoming a Christian, I found Christians to be the most offensive.  Sometimes, I still do.  Regarding judging others, I think it can and should be left only to God.  I no more judge others than I want anyone else judging me.  One thing I know for certain - there is a God and I'm not Him.

    First of all, am I to say whose who is right in God's eyes?  Who gets to decide whose sin is worse?  If lying is equivalent to all other sins, why do we make such a big deal of all the other ones, since you can be assured everyone has lied?  I do believe in sin, but realize that I'm not capable of seeing into someone's soul and determining anything, but God can and I leave that to Him.

    In 1 Corinthians 5:9, Paul writes to "not associate with sexually immoral people - not at all meaning the people of the world."  Why do Christians insist on holding non-Christians to a Christian standard?  Is it paranoia, lack of faith, or ignorance?  I don't know, but it is this hypocrisy, in my opinion, that makes non-Christians hate us.  What if Buddhists did the same with everyone who didn't believe what they believe? 

    One other verse that doesn't get enough attention is, John 3:17.  Everyone knows John 3:16, which says, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son that whomever believes in him, shall not perish, but inherit eternal life." The next verse is equally powerful, in my opinion: "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him."  If Christ didn't come to judge the world, why would I try it?  At my very best, I'm not that great.  I don't feel at all qualified to judge anyone.

    Recently, my husband and I went through the most painful time of our lives.  After years in an abusive relationship with my father, my mom shot and killed herself, while my husband and I were being sued by a professed Christian. Unbeknownst to us, the man made money duping unsuspecting people into "business deals" and then suing them.  He drove by our home daily and told us that he would make sure our kids ended up on the street. My dad, dear narcissist that he is, blamed me for my mother's suicide.

    I had been a Christian nearly 20 years and instead of having the support of the church, we were mostly judged. Lots of people told that there must be some hidden sin in our lives to bring on such wrath.  "Is your husband secretly cheating on you?"  "Does he watch porn?"  You cannot even imagine.  Oh, and my mom killing herself?  Well, clearly I was told that she was burning in hell.  One lady told me the very moment I told her that she could hear "wailing from hell."  Nice.  Thankfully, nothing deterred me from my faith in God, for He, and not those lame people is my dear beloved Savior.  After 18 months of fighting that horrible man, he died of a massive heart attack.  My God is real!  Nothing brought back my mom, but I have tried my best to turn it around.  I wrote a book and now I speak to teens about the dangers of alcohol, abusive relationships, and the need for knowing you are unconditionally loved by a God who thinks you are wonderful - just the way you are.

    Thanks, SandCastles.  Great question.

    1. profile image0
      Motown2Chitownposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      And CaliMama, that is a great answer!  You have my respect and can be assured of my prayers.  Thank you for your honesty and openness.

    2. profile image0
      SandCastlesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Hi CaliMama, thank you for your reply and know that you are not responsible for your mom's suicide. And I don't think people who kill themselves automatically go to hell either. That's mostly a Catholic belief from what I've heard (nothing against Catholics) but I don't buy it. God is merciful.

  3. hausofdavid profile image77
    hausofdavidposted 3 years ago

    To each their own but at the end of the day, only God can judge.

    1. profile image0
      SandCastlesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      True, God is the judge.

      1. EncephaloiDead profile image60
        EncephaloiDeadposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Exactly, which is why no one needs to "speak up".

        1. profile image0
          SandCastlesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          I disagree; people do need to speak up or evil goes unchecked and there is such a thing as evil though the definition of evil can and should be debated. Some people think having green eyes is evil for example. But some things are definitely evil (like putting people into ovens and killing them to take their things) and if people didn't fight and speak up, evil people like Hitler would have had things all his own way. So though God is the ultimate judge, it is up to people to speak up, not to be better, but to prevent suffering.

          1. EncephaloiDead profile image60
            EncephaloiDeadposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            If you see evil, call the police.



            That is completely silly and isn't even an example.



            So, you're talking about putting people into ovens? Seriously? lol Call the police, then.



            You have no right to correct or condemn others, no right to "speak up". If you see a crime, call the police.

            1. profile image0
              SandCastlesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              You need to read up on your history. I'm done talking to you. You do not seem to respect any other opinion other than your own. and YOU have no right to tell me that I can't correct someone. What a hypocrite you are; in telling me that I can't correct people, you are correcting me!

              1. profile image0
                SandCastlesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                So what you are really saying is that you can correct people but nobody else is allowed to; hmmm.

              2. profile image0
                SandCastlesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Correction: it seems to me that you are behaving hypocritically.

              3. EncephaloiDead profile image60
                EncephaloiDeadposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Yet, we are talking about you wanting to disrespect the opinions of others by judging and condemning them.



                You have no right to correct others.



                Then, you stop correcting others and I'll stop correcting you. Deal?

  4. profile image0
    Motown2Chitownposted 3 years ago

    What I often find disturbing about the "being judgmental is wrong" threads is that they're chock full of judgment - whether intentional or otherwise. Discernment is a matter of observation and deciding whether or not said actions or beliefs are appropriate for us as individuals. Judgment is setting ourselves up to decide what is appropriate for others. That is the sole purview of God.  Let's simply be who we are and allow others to do the same.  Love them like Jeus told us to do and NOT judge them-again like he told us to do.

    1. profile image0
      SandCastlesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Judgment means looking down on others; it has nothing to do with helping and is prideful.  But we are allowed to speak up to people. Discernment means you think and you don't just swallow what someone tells you whether you are looking at yourself or a situation that involves others. Should we even have police then or any laws? Just let everybody do what they want? Don't get involved; just close your eyes and ears. God is the judge but that does NOT mean others abdicate their responsibility to speak out against evil (and evil does exist). But just because someone says something is evil doesn't mean it is evil and that is where discernment comes into play. Discernment questions. Discernment doesn't jump on a bandwagon.  A fictional example: You must hate the character Sherlock Holmes who always gets involved to solve crimes. He should just let Moriarty do what he pleases even if involves killing women and cutting of their finger to stash on someone else to use for blackmail. How dare that judging Sherlock!

      1. profile image0
        Motown2Chitownposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        I must have misunderstood.  I was under the impression that you were discussing spiritual judgment.  I don't think there is any reason not to investigate crimes or to charge and try murderers etc.  I do, however, notice that when we start talking about not judging, it usually devolves into not judging differently than we would.  If others agree with our judgment, most human beings don't find anything wrong in what we've done. I still try as much as possible to love rather than to judge and to use my discernment to decide what is right for me and not others.

        1. profile image0
          SandCastlesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          I agree, we should focus on being loving. But sometimes being loving means telling someone the truth by speaking up to them but not to judge but to help the person or the people that person is hurting. Spiritual judgment is God's arena (we shouldn't even judge ourselves in this case) because none of us measure up to God's standards.

      2. EncephaloiDead profile image60
        EncephaloiDeadposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        But, that is exactly what you're doing when you condemn others.



        If you see a crime, call the police, other than that, there is nothing else for you to do.



        Therein lies the problem, your version of evil.



        Once again, you are creating false premises and fallacies to defend your position. Sherlock Holmes solving crimes is not even remotely the same thing as what we're talking about. If you can't stick to the subject matter, then you obviously have no case.

        1. profile image0
          SandCastlesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          You are trying to tell me that my reality is wrong and that only your reality is correct. Why don't you follow your own advice and get off this forum. Why are you condeming my opinions if know one is allowed to correct or condemn anyone. You are a hypocrite. Why don't you mind your own business? Isn't that your motto?

          1. profile image0
            SandCastlesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            correction: No one.

          2. JMcFarland profile image90
            JMcFarlandposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Does the Bible tell you to call people who disagree with you names?   I'm pretty sure that's considered a personal attack that is against the forum rules and frowned upon by hp staff.

            There is a big difference between saying someone's behavior is hypocritical and calling them a hypocrite.   One is a personal attack,  one isn't.

            1. profile image0
              SandCastlesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              It wasn't my intention to call someone a hypocrite but to say that they were being hypocritical. Thank you for you comment.

              1. JMcFarland profile image90
                JMcFarlandposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                If it was reported already as a personal attack it's too late

                1. profile image0
                  SandCastlesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Thank you JMcFarland.

          3. profile image0
            SandCastlesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Correction: it seems to be that you are being hypocritical EncephalioDead.

          4. EncephaloiDead profile image60
            EncephaloiDeadposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            No, I'm trying to tell you reality is reality, it is not something we make up as we go along.



            So, now you want to take away my right to free speech?



            I'll mind my business if you promise to mind yours. Deal?

  5. ii3rittles profile image86
    ii3rittlesposted 3 years ago

    There is judging then there is discerning.

    What is the difference?

    Judging : "Look at the way you dress. You look like trash. Have some respect for yourself."

    Discerning : "The way you dress gives people the wrong idea, you don't want that and you don't deserve that."

    If you don't know if you are being judgmental or discerning, talk to God about it and not the person.

    1. profile image0
      SandCastlesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      That's a good example. The one way to talk to the person shows concern and doesn't shame the person. The other is judging.

    2. EncephaloiDead profile image60
      EncephaloiDeadposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Discernment: : the ability to see and understand people, things, or stituations clearly and intelligently.

      Your example does not follow.

      1. ii3rittles profile image86
        ii3rittlesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        When dealing with people directly you approach them from your heart not your head like Jesus did. That was the point I was making. You want to help them, not hurt them. It is the difference of knowing right and wrong. It is not my place to condemn someone of their sins, but I am to help them when they ask. You approach others and speak to others the way you would want it to be done to you.

        1. EncephaloiDead profile image60
          EncephaloiDeadposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Heart's pump blood, the head is where the brain resides in which we use to think and communicate with others.

          Yes, we can help people when they ask, but that is not what is being discussed here.

  6. EncephaloiDead profile image60
    EncephaloiDeadposted 3 years ago

    Notice that the evangelists here believe they have every right to judge and condemn others, but have to use examples of crimes in order to justify their disrespect for others.

    1. profile image0
      SandCastlesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Please do not define me as an evangelist; I take that as a personal attack on my character.

  7. profile image0
    SandCastlesposted 3 years ago

    My opinion: I think it is very important to not assume that people have the same values that you do. When someone tells you not to speak up, it could be because they want to con you; they don't want you to own your own right to speak up. They might tell you to not act because they do not want you to act when they violate your boundaries.

    Sometimes people try to confuse others. They lie. They say, "you don't have the right to speak up" because they don't want you speaking up to them. Or they don't want you defending someone else against them. So they might refer to a text, "this says that you must...". They might take something out of context to prove their point. So it is best to know thyself.

    And if someone makes a mistake and the person says sorry, the decent person isn't revengeful. But in my opinion, petty people are revengeful and that is what judgment is all about. Even after you've apologized they say quickly, "Too late!" Because in my opinion, their fingers itch to condemn, to point, to judge. Yet these types of people are quick to point out the faults of others.

    Everything I have written is simply my opinion and it is not intended to insult anyone.

  8. Vvitta profile image61
    Vvittaposted 3 years ago

    All religious teach good values. So let us not hide behind our religions and use that as a licence to condemn. Although in most cases what is right and wrong is universal, there are areas where what is right for one is wrong for another.
    I believe that we should find a space within ourselves where we are true to our values and not judge anyone. My religion forbids me to eat beef. Does this mean that I have to think less of those who do? No. Live and let live.
    Everyone wants to be a social watchdog. To what end?

  9. profile image60
    CaliMamaposted 3 years ago

    I think it's important, whether you're a Christian or not, to speak up when you see wrong.  I commented before about my mother killing herself and being blamed for it. My mother was an alcoholic.  Four other members of my family had died prior to her dying: Three from alcohol and one from an overdose.  She was 2 times the legal limit for intoxication when she shot herself.  FOR YEARS, in complete and utter frustration I had continued to pull the fire alarm.  I begged her to get help.  I begged others to join me in an intervention.  No one would say anything - not my dad or any other family member.  Who couldn't see the tragic path she was on?  Being the only Christian to speak up, I was called an evangelical "know-it-all."   It had nothing to do with my faith, but everything to do with my deep love for my mother that made me beg her to seek life rather than death.  I think whenever we speak up to wrongs or harmful choices, it should be out of that sort of love.  If it's not, it can easily be misconstrued as judgement. I have neighbors who are strangely on the same path as my mother.  I feel as though God has put them in my path.  I don't go out of my way to say anything to them, but when their children come to me for food or refuge from crazy, I freely give it to them.  When the parents come to me for money, I give them honesty rather than choosing to enable them: I have told them I would help them get help for their addictions, but can't give them money. Again, when we do or speak out of love, it will be obvious. When it's out of judgement, I think that's obvious too - just my opinion.

 
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