I've been pretty quiet or a few days ...
Been skipping through most of the threads in religion and beliefs section;
And one thing keept jumping to the front of my mind.
Everyone including myself has tunnel vision;... some more than others.
The more focused we become, the more we become blind to everything else that lies outside of our line of vision.
Tunnel vision, what is it?
Whenever we think that we see everything clearly ...
We probably have tunnel vision.
When we can not see wisdom outside of those comments made by those people that agree with us; we probably have tunnel vision.
A person perceiving themselves to be wise, seldom learns anything new.
But that’s alright, cause we already know everything.
The handwriting on the wall of my tunnel says so !
Beyond your tunnel vision, reality fades, like shadows into the night!!!!
This is a true statement of everyones personal perseption.
Even that this is seen within your tunnel vision ever so clearly.
And after a generation passes, that reality moves out of their tunnelvision like shadown in the night and soon becomes the stuff myths are made of..
Sorry Jerami.. maybe you should only speak for yourself then maybe you would escape your tunnel vision,...
Can you ...
or ony one else, define ...
what everyone else would say is ..
thier version . of . truth and reality ;
IN ten words or less.? ???
An ever changing perception of what is.
All reality is not Truth..
Yet all reality it is manifested and separated by Truth.
Where there is no separation change is inevitable and death reigns...
Where there is the separation only Truth remain and is unchanging... this is Life.
In this age death is the reality of all who are unable to do the separation....
,,,Ignored your limitation cause how can one define a question....
What I would say is truth and reality is ...
that which I see and experience ...
That which the wine-o living on the street sees and experiences is reality to him, .... regardless of how comfortable you are in the comfort of your recliner sitting in front of the fireplace eating Blue bell ice cream, is to you.
That which each of us see, and experience is how we actually understand reality. Everything else is perceived as a potenial reality. Often appearing to be a fantasy.
Excellent, excellent point. I totally agree. Very good advice for all of us here. We have such an enormous opportunity to hear so many opinions from so many. The only thing standing in our way of learning from each other is ourselves.
Yep ! ..... Ourselves ,,, And themselves ....
We really could if everybody wanted to ... at the same time's The's difficult part,,,,, At the same time.
I know.you're right. I love this place when everyone is interacting and sharing in a spirit of interest and courtesy.
Tunnel vision can be good.
There fare many here (myself included) that have had a very wide field of vision, RE Spiritual things.
I have found what works for me, so I'm focused. Otherwise I'd loose where I came from, or where I'm going.
I'm open to learn, but some things are a "done deal" for me, as I'm sure applies to many others also.
It works for my self also.
But I gotta admitt; looking back at my past (?) There are a coupla times that I now wish that my field of vision had been a little bit wider.
I mean I "really" do !
These forums have actually helped me with all this "introspection" stuff.
Any individual who solidifies a belief, for which, it never changes, has tunnel vision. Those who refuse to change their belief, because they feel they have come to the right conclusion has no wisdom and cannot discern truth, even if it bit them in the A$$.
Beliefs should never remain in tact, because new knowledge and wisdom discerned truth, should always change a belief.
Is there a right way to think? Yes.
Is there a right philosophy for living? Yes.
Is there a right way to learn? Yes.
Is there a right way to form beliefs? Yes.
Is there a right way to speak? Yes.
Is there a right way to be, in private? Yes.
Is there a right way to be, in public? Yes.
If you disagree, then you're lacking in some aspect.
No tunnel vision can see the walls of the vision. It only sees what is necessary for oneself. In other words, narrow-minded and close-minded people are a detriment to themselves and those who are around them.
Yep I think I agree. However I answered no to all your questions. So maybe I'm not getting it or just plain lacking haha!
What Doctor from what group (from the many), should penny see, for her suffering condition of tunnel vision
I only answered yes to one. If he ever tells you who she needs to see, please share the word. It appears I may need help too.
Your statement is foolhardy.
@Jerami- and anyone else.
What is the right way to think? Rationally based on reality
What is the right philosophy for living? Rationally based on reality
What is the right way to learn? Learn from everything and everyone.
What is the right way to form beliefs? No belief is truth, otherwise it wouldn't be a belief. Beliefs are not to be solidified, because knowledge is always changing which changes beliefs.
What is the right way to speak? Rationally and Honestly.
What is the right way to be, in private? Remains private, not necessary for others to have any intimate knowledge of or know about.
What is the right way to be, in public? Honest actions.
It is pretty sad that I had to explain this.
Those were not your questions and answers. "Is" and "What" changes the nature of the question hugely. Anyone who disagreed with you according to your analysis was lacking. While I thought I was getting what you were intending to say perhaps I am not?
Everything is relative.
First off, yes those are the questions I posed. My answer to my questions were yes. Now, I've answered "HOW". Something you're missing. Look at Jerami's post to understand.
It's obvious you are just taking my post alone, incorporate Jerami's post. Get your answer.
Oh ok, I got it! Sorry about that, didn't event read Jerami's response.
So you think your original questions had absolute answers and are not relative to what one perceives?
How can there be a right way to think, a right philosophy for living, a right way to learn etc?
We all think differently and is dependent on a number of variables. We all have different philosophies in which to live by. We all learn differently.
Your yes and your description may not fit with a very few many others who view their way as right living etc.
Not a problem.
Because anything other than what I stated provides no growth.
Variables? Rationality and Irrationality, separates out the variables.
Philosophies? Some are rational and some are not. Those that are not shouldn't continue to exist, because they are not beneficial, to a higher purpose. If a person has no higher purpose than self, then they are selfish.
When people learn from everything and choose to learn from everything, instead of ignoring what is not liked or wanted, then objectivity is obtained.
Which is directly tied to chosen ignorance.
So it is okay in my neighborhood to leave the house unlocked when we go out. This is our way to live in our neighbourhood. In town it is not okay to leave the house unlocked. This is their way to live in their neighbourhood.
Truth is...it is safe in our neighbourhood. Trust exists based on reality.
Truth is... it is not safe in our neighbourhood (townsfolk) No trust exists based on reality.
Which one is rational and irrational?
One philosophy advocates love because it is what is naturally arising
A different philosophy advocates love because it is the right thing to do.
Which one is rational or irrational?
Who is ignorant if they disagree with your beliefs?
Ignorance breeds stupidity. Rational- says to lock your home, regardless of whether or not it is safe in your neighborhood.
See answer above.
Again, you fail to realize- it's not a belief.
Everything stated is a rationality for living. You have no argument, except to choose ignorance.
Haha ok..... this type of ignorance as you put it was quite safe for over 75 years of living in the same neighbourhood without locking doors. The generation before me and my generation never locked their doors. No burglaries happened, no rapes etc. It was not ignorance.
The townsfolk however did have to lock their doors. It was all relative to where one lived.
What you stated in your second set of questions in response to Jerami, I do agree it is rational. I am referring however to your first set of questions.
You sir are blind to reality. You suffer from tunnel vision as much as myself or anyone else.
You preceive reality as you see it; the same as everyone else
Suprise ! ... Tag you are IT!
Edit ... there are none so blind as he who thinks that he sees it all !!
Since we are a tiny little speck in a very vast universe, I do agree.
It just seems to me that those of us who seem to be the most sure of themselves are the MOST Blind trying to convince every one else that we can see more clear than anyone else.
Yes agree sometimes it appears that way. No one sees any clearer than any one else. We are just viewing from a different perch in the universe. If there is a tree in my way and none in yours you will see what is beyond the tree. I might see what the tree is made of after some time.
Life has a way of tricking us into focusing upon the leaves of the tree. OOOH aren't they pretty?
Who knows what the limbs are looking like behind all of those leaves?
In this case, the leaves represent excuses and alibis.
When the excuse is entertaining enough ... we loose focus on what the issue was that the excuse presented itself for.
It is too easy to get lost amongst the smoke and mirrors when we do not remember that that is what it is.
Smoke and mirrors.
Yes like fingers pointing at the moon. We might focus on the fingers or person instead of the moon which is the point in the other persons intent.
That specific thinking is what keeps humanity from moving forward.
And you sir, fail to understand reality in any manner.
I Sir am lolical enough to admitt the fact that I do not see nor do I know everything.
I am aware of my weaknesses.
I only know that I preceive reality truthfuly pertaining to how it has treated ME !
"IF" You can not preceive your own weaknesses ?? You Sir are blind to your own blindness.
That is SOooo Sad.
Reality exists. It does not have anything to do with what you think, desire, will or wish.
Therefore, you have no argument.
I made a dream list of 80 things passed over 30 years ago; I most used my desires and my subconscious as the most powerful tool part of my brain to plan it all out.
Over that 30 year I achieve 85% of that dream and the other 10% I really didn’t desire that much and about 5% really was impossible to do.
Then follow through in order of priories was attitude, focus and least important was talents.
It looks like you can make own reality along the way and join up with everyone else’s reality as you follow towards the same rainbow.
The best doctor in the world for tunnel vision is your self, self serve rather than selfish, so Cagsil is partly right. The bible is too over obedience of the dark ages, it would shorten my growth of different people’s realities
Since 50% of my life is about me, this dream list sets me up with a plan to meet my desires to follow my rainbow. (Writing it down gives it 80% better memory) Then along the way you find out many of the other people have similar desires toward a similar rainbow. By sharing similar rainbows, it transforms into richer more colorful with more beautiful shapes then you thought at first, so by sharing rainbow , it makes it all far more powerful.
I had to belly laugh on this one, because truth is funnier than fiction.
I think life is 50% about me and 50% about everyone else
Cagsil the way you asked the question? Thinking only from my ego perspective I answered 7 yes
Coming from penny’s and ( outside self -other 50%) most of other perspectives, for example the 8/10th Religious deal with it
Answer would be 7 no,
Dose democracy win on this one?
There's no easy answer to this, but I will say this. As long as you have free will, there will always be people that believe whatever they want to believe. Never acknowledging how the other party feels, as most people generally don't look at things in a clear black and white format. Sure, there's always a right and wrong thing to do, but many people often overstep those boundaries on a daily basis. Heck, you can find a ton of hypocrisy in forums everyday if you look hard enough. Same thing in life. This is why I sometimes think we'd be better off if some advance alien race enslaved us, so it would unify the world in such a way that we would see that not only are we not so different, but to unite us against a common foe.
When we can see something, it's reasonable to believe it exists.
When we can't see something, it's reasonable to look harder.
But in the first case, there's no need to call it a belief, because it is manifest.
And in the second, it's not reasonable or necessary to formulate a belief.
Therefore belief is an unnecessary state of mind.
(In the above, I use 'see' in its widest, not its literal, sense. So please don't ask me if I believe in air!)
How then can you know what a man has "seen" unless you know all thing?
For what he "sees" he believes....
Is it not then necessary to know all things before you can judge a persons belief as false?
And again how can you look for something which you have not "seen"...
Again it is necessary to know that that thing can be seen before you even begin to "look harder"
But then again you would have already needed be able to "see" all things....
I'm speaking for myself. But if someone claims to believe that which he admits he has not seen, it is a leap of faith. I'm perfectly within my rights to consider whether or not it is a plausible claim.
In science, we frequently look for what we have not seen, especially when our theories predict its existence. And when we find it, we have advanced our knowledge.
Please take note I am using your definition or explanation of "see"
And it seem to concur with mine which is this.....
There is a sight of mind and sight of the eyes... the sight of the mind is greater that the sight of the eyes.
You answer seem to have forsaken your explanation...
Absolutely not. I am using 'see' to mean observe objectively by any sense or instrument of detection.
You are using 'see' to mean imagine or convince yourself without evidence.
Total opposite, I'm afraid.
Thank you for clarification and at least it explains your limitations but not mine....
Why limitations? There's nothing wrong with my imagination. It's just that I know the difference between imagination and observation, while you seem to think that imagination is a form of observation, which it is not. It's actually a form of creation, albeit within a virtual or mental landscape.
Societies under pressure always react strongly. People get scared of any ideas that are new and then they want certainty. Tunnel vision is part of that desperate desire to avoid uncertainty.
Globalisation is the ultimate challenge. Cultures perfectly at peace in there own little tunnels are obliged to confront very different views of reality. It is scary. And it can be destabilizing.
A globalised economy is formed uniting all the national economies into one. It's then found that we have a total global debt of 15 trillion Globos. It's odd, because we don't remember borrowing it. The only other place we've been is the Moon, so clearly The Man in the Moon must have slipped a cheque to Neil Armstrong. The World Government calls an emergency session and resolves to nuke the Moon before the Man calls in the debt.
(Well, it's no worse than the original post!)
Edit - the original post is OK. For some reason I thought I was in the ridiculous Loch Ness thread!
Is there a right way to think? Yes.
Is there a right philosophy for living? Yes.
Is there a right way to learn? Yes.
Is there a right way to form beliefs? Yes.
Is there a right way to speak? Yes.
Is there a right way to be, in private? Yes.
Is there a right way to be, in public? Yes.
- - = = - = - =
This sounds like something that just about every preacher would say.
What is the right way to think ?
What is that one right philosophy ?
" " " " " way to learn
" " " " " " to learn ?
to speak ? etc.
Tunnel vision helps us to survive in our shored miserable everyday world. There is no right or wrong way of doing things - it's all relative. When we sit and do nothing knowing that we can do something - that is wrong!
Until you admit to yourself that YOU suffer from tunnel vision; you will never see that which is over the horizon.
The amount of ignorance in most of the statements you've managed to physically type in your forums posts is actually quite appalling to say the least. Admit to tunnel vision?
First off, answer this question- Can you SEE a World of Peace? I'm sure you cannot, because you cannot see beyond yourself to begin with. However, I've seen it. You want me to admit to having "tunnel vision", yet I can answer any question you throw at me.
Boy, talk about being unintelligent. No, I don't have tunnel vision. I am ignorant in some areas of knowledge, but whatever I do not know, I go and learn about. I cannot say the same for you, because you CHOOSE twist people's words, so that you don't have believe what was said. Absolutely absurd and ridiculous.
I am sure you cannot see it. You only know how to manipulate, twist and choose ignorance, so you can stay in your nice little cozy messed up world that you already see. Again, reality has nothing to do with what is thought.
Coming from You, I take that as a compliment.
Until you can see everything ... You have tunnelvision.
How hard is this to understand?
YOUR tunnel vision prevents YOU from seeing such a simple truth as this ?
You should begin to question your certainty, if you can not grasp such a simple truth.
Okay, I wasn't going to comment again on this forum originally, but seeing as how I can't really sleep and I got nothing better to do. Seriously, I don't. However, I have to agree with Jerami when it comes to the concepts of reality. It kind of surprises about what Cagsil said about reality considering he's a huge "Matrix trilogy" fan, and I know Morpheus in that film clearly said: "If your interpreting reality based solely on what you can touch, smell, and see. then really all reality to you is optic signals interpreted by your brain." No, Cagsil, I'm not disrespecting you in anyway, so please don't take that personally. I'm just saying your statement surprises me considering you liked the "Matrix trilogy." that's all.
Anyways, to get back to what i was trying to say, I think Jerami brings up a good point. How do we even know our own world is real? After all, we could all be part of one person's imagination or dream. Or maybe we're nothing more than hallographic images like in "Star Trek: The Next Generation?" Who really knows. Hell, our world could be nothing more than a elaborate virtual world like the Sims, and we probably don't know it. Whatever the case may be, I think if one were to try to assess what reality or life is, then they would have to be open to all possibilities. Not just one narrative construct.
Steven, what movies I like to watch is irrelevant to what I know and understand about Life. And, HAD YOU, read my previous statement with regards to reality, I DID NOT say that it had anything to do with touch, feel or the rest of the senses within our bodies. And, the fact that reality has NOTHING to do with us except for the fact that it exists and people continually use the word itself within the confines of their understanding without learning it, is what is appalling.
In a way you would be correct, however, things are defined, things are real. The movies you mention are just a manipulation of what is really known. The "unknown" is what people are always fascinated about, because of the mystery of the unknown. So, movies want to give people entertainment. They are nothing more and you above all people, should be able to differentiate between what is real and what is not. Things that are possible, are identified. Things that are impossible(right now) are not. Things remain possible, until they become improbable. When something becomes improbable, then they become impossible.
Oh okay. I gotcha now. To set the record straight, I did read your previous posts on here, but from the way you were talking I thought you were referring to reality as something that you can merely prove with your natural senses. However, I guess I must've misread what you were getting at, so I apologize for that. As I stated earlier, I meant no ill offense.
Well to be fair Cagsil, "The Sims" is a video game and "Star Trek: the next generation" is a tv show; they're not movies. Trust me, there is a difference as the same collaborative process to create film is completely different than that of a game or tv series. However, that's another debate for another time, as I don't feel like getting into that one.
As far as me being able to differentiate between what is real and what is not, I thought I made myself perfectly clear when I stated various times before that I don't associate films with reality in various forums before. However, I guess your probably wondering why am I even bringing up your interest in the "Matrix Trilogy" into this if that's the case. You see Cagsil, unlike yourself and many other hubbers here, I'm sure, I was taught at a very early age that ALL FILMS in general (unless you count most horror slashers and spoofs) have a underlining message that correlates to life itself. A plausible possibility that many of us can deeply relate to. You see every movie you watch has a surface meaning and a underlining hidden meaning.
The surface meaning is the actual plot of the film itself. Take "Star Wars" for instance. Sure, we can both say it's a classic story of good versus evil taking place in space. A classic homage to previous classic B-movies and Errol Flynn when he made films like Robin Hood. However, the underlining meaning behind the film is actually about a boy embarking on an adventure to becoming a man and embracing his destiny. Facing challenges like the lure and deception of evil, as he struggles to face his past and the inevitable truth.
Then you can take another film like "Rambo: First Blood." Sure, we can both say that it's a action movie purely designed to just show Stallone blowing s*** up without a shirt while grunting. However, you'd be missing the point of the story if you didn't notice the underlining meaning behind it. You see, during the Vietnam War, many soldiers were forced to endure harsh ridicule by their own country. Being labeled as a baby killer just for doing their jobs that they were forced to do for their country. Rambo is a man that genuinely is trapped emotionally, as he doesn't know what else to do with his life after the war. Psychologically trapped, as warfare tactics is all he knows, and his only family that he had were his comrades in the war. Hence, giving the viewer a deep sense of emotional isolation that many of us have probably felt at one point or another.
Then there's "X-men" where sure we can say its a story based on a comic book in regards to people being born genetically different. As the x-men are a team of mutants that fights to protect a world that both hates and fears them. However, the obvious underlining meaning behind x-men is that it's a metaphor about racism in the world. How humanity in general has always feared and hated what they don't understand. And how those in power always persecuted the minority throughout history. Charles Xavier is a man that represents the idealogy of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. where he believed the mutants (metaphor for pick any minority group you want) could live together in harmony someday. Magneto represents Malcolm X, who feels that the majority of society is morally unjust for persecuting his mutant brothers, and vows to fight back against the oppressors. Granted, it's done in a more colorful way in the "x-men" movies, but the message is still there about the underlining themes of racism in society.
As for as how this relates to the "matrix" series, I'm getting to that. sure, we can both watch the Matrix films and say it's a science fiction story about a man named Neo who discovers he trapped inside a computer generated world, as the machines have been at war with humanity for years. Harvesting the humans as batteries; while keeping their minds occupied within a virtual world. Then we can also look and think about all the biblical references to that the Matrix makes as well, but there's another point you might have missed here. Outside of the religious subliminal messaging and science fiction element of humanity versus machines, at it's simplest construct, "the matrix" trilogy is essentially a metaphor of interpreting one's reality. Now before you say anything take in mind that even the Wachowski brothers themselves admitted in various interviews that part of the concept for the Matrix, was the concept of misinterpreting reality. How one's reality isn't easily defined, as they derived it from the classic anime, "Ghost in the shell." In "Ghost in the shell", there was various questions raised on how can one define a soul or one's existence. bringing up many philosophical questions that has plagued man kind for centuries on what the definition of a soul is. In both Matrix and ghost in the shell, machines start to become self aware. Of course in the ghost in the shell movies, majority of the world were cyborgs, as humanity wanted to reach the peak of perfection by replacing even parts of their brains with machinery. In this same said series, machines become self aware and begin to develop personalities of their own. Which begs the question if a machine could feel emotions, then does it have a soul? What if it definitely could think for itself and was fully aware of it's existence and have consciousness, would you call it human then? After all in that world, humans were becoming more and more like machines; hence blurring the lines of machines and humanity. making the viewer ponder the difference between the two. the wachowski brothers ADMITTED they stole that concept from ghost in the shell, and used it in the matrix series. hence, that's why I found it puzzling for you to say that there is only one definitive set of reality.
Now don't get me wrong, I don't think it's ever a good idea for anyone to try to duplicate what they see in a movie, as most films tend to exaggerate reality quite a bit. However, there are a lot of positive messages in films that people can take from if you look hard enough. "she's out of my league", sure its a generic romantic comedy about a nerdy guy getting a hot girl, but the message is that it shouldn't matter what league a person is deemed by society. The only thing that's important is that if you believe your good enough for her, and that she feels the same way. that's all i was getting at. anyways, i mean no quarells with you cags, so with that i say good day.
There is alway an opening at the end of a tunnel; just be open minded and ready to accept truth wherever from it comes from.
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