I was reading about historic jesus yesterday. Neutral historians believe john the bapist was extremely popular during his life time. Jesus was disciple of john and john's death led jesus taking independent charge and preaching. Jesus preached 2-3 years before he was crucified..Jesus's popularity did rise but during his lifetime he didnt have much of following in comparision to john , who was highly popular among masses...
do you think history would have been different if john would have survived and lived his whole life?
John the Baptist recognized Jesus as the Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world.
He also noted that he (JtB) was not worthy to loose His (Jesus) sandal straps.
Jesus also honored John by saying that of all men, born of a woman, there was none greater. Yet, the least in the Kingdom of God were greater than he.
m here not talking about what bible states..it is biased view of looking at jesus...i am talking about what historian state about popularity in comparison...
Your the one biased.
How many other documents have you read that are NOT biased.
Everything we say and write is biased, by what we know and experience.
Like so many others, you are simply trying to discredit the Bible, because you disagree with it's content.
Why not just say so, and move on?
reason i have put this on atheist corner is to discuss about what would have happened if john would have lived his full life considering jesus became more famous after he was gone than during his lifetime as per historian..premise is discussing popularity of two human beings and we can't have such discussion when premise is jesus is god...this is curious thing for me and so i want to know...if you think jesus is god , discussion gets over before it starts...
load a crap.......
very little in know about John besides what is written in scripture...
Jesus is know by all even without scripture...
people write about what popular ..not what is not...even those seemingly unlearned nuetral historians follow that rule.
Jesus is know by all even without scripture???...well jesus was not known to many nations even after 1500 years ...once europe starting taking over the world, something like jesus existed became known to them...infact India and China , where 40% of world actually leaves have little idea about jesus and those are among oldest civilizations ...
jesus became popular after his death and writing we see is much later of his death...here i am talking about when both were alive and not dead...historians believe john had massive fan following while jesus had few followers...
History as is written in scripture says that John came before Jesus...so he John was established before Jesus himself.
What is the difference between the two?
This is where they are miles apart....
Jesus words were different to that Of John
Jesus works spoke for themselves.
These two formed the basis of his popularity.
John's was only a preacher among a few others of course.
His preaching was limited to talking about Jesus coming.
Both men understood their work and each did what they must.
They were not doing the popularity thing which religion is famous for then and even now, which those "nuetral" historian are still trying to use for their benefit.
i am not talking about scriptures out here...those are not basis on which historians form their opinion...those are one of things on which they go...john was preacher and jesus was his disciple ...now if you think jesus is god or what ever , do you think HE was become disciple of mere a preacher...answer would be no...secondly i am not here talking about what john taught or what jesus taught...my question is very simple...since john was far more popular and had more following (jesus being one of followers) and jesus didnt start preaching independently till john died , would history be different if john lived his full life?
Pisean you missed the point by a mile....
Your Popularity is based on what your contemporaries say or write about you.
So in the case Of Jesus and John they lived around the same place around the same time.
So among those who is more popular of the two?
Simple look at the writing from those at the time and you would see....
you need not historian to tell you...
find the writings and read and there are many available to you.
Whether you choose to read the bible or not it does not matter.
But if you ignore scripture as accurate historic record, then it you loss.
and you missed by point by light years!!!!!!!!!!!...popularity is important factor which depicts ability to connect with people...scriptures are never an authority to understand history because there are many scriptures...when we understand myth and reality in distinctive form we can understand how humans evolve...if we stick to only myth , we as human race are in total loss because we started believing stories over facts...
based on contemporary writeups historians believe jesus was disciple of john and john was preacher who was well respected ..john preached till he was killed...once he was killed few of his disciples began preaching independently ...jesus was one of them...john had more fan following than any of his disciples , including jesus...
That's right, but crucification made him more popular. So Jesus became the what people consider him today, after his death.
The Gospels were written long after the dead of both Jesus and John the Baptist. If you read the current version of the Bible you will see that it is eluded to that John the Baptist was teachings a forgiveness of sin through baptism long before Jesus started his ministries. It has been suggested that Jesus was in fact a disciple of John the Batist. You will notice that in the beginning of the gospels (during the baptism of Jesus), John says that Jesus is the "ONE" and even says that he is the Lamb of God in the Book of St John. But you will notice that in Luke 7:19-20 while John was in Prison:
18 And the disciples of John told him of all these things.
19 And John calling unto him two of his disciples sent them to the Lord, saying, Art thou he that cometh, or look we for another?
20 And when the men were come unto him, they said, John the Baptist hath sent us unto thee, saying, Art thou he that cometh, or look we for another?
This tells me that the authors might have skewed the facts just abit to fit their agenda.
hmmm good point...may be...even historians believe that jesus was disciple of john and he didnt start independent preaching before john died...so facts might have been skewed...
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