Atheists - Closet Believers?

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   Disappearingheadposted 12 years ago

   Most active in this forum
   
   1) Paarsurrey. Let's say unconventional
   
   2) Ernesthub. Confirmed atheist.
   
   3) Beelzedad. Confirmed atheist.
   
   4) Cagsil. Confirmed atheist.
   
   5) Jesus was a Hippy. Confirmed atheist.
   
   For those who say there is no God, don't you think you are taking an unhealthy interest in this forum? Perhaps you long to believe, and hang about hoping, praying, that one day you'll find that killer argument that will draw you in. An argument so good that you can freely accept it without losing face to each other.

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      Beelzedadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Are you joking? I can come up with waaaaaay better arguments in favor of gods than any I've heard here or elsewhere.
      
      I can come up with an airtight argument showing conclusively how gods can interact with humans.
      
      And, it's all physics and does not violate any laws.

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      nightwork4posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      perhaps these folks are tired of religion being forced on them, their forfathers and everyone in the last couple of thousand years with absolutely no evidence. perhaps these people realise that we now have the ability to voice our opinion without worrying that being an athiest will make your life harder. i don't even tell my kids i'm an athiest because if they tell people, they will be hated, bugged and called terrible names. PERHAPS.

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         earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         That says it pretty well for me.

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      Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I guess this post just proves the point of every unbeliever in existence....you don't have a clue and/or don't pay very close attention to what is said to you to begin with. What a shame.
      
      Earnest is not a confirmed Atheist. He has stated it.
      
      I am NOT a confirmed Atheist, either. I have clearly stated that before.
      
      Just those two statements proves my point. Enjoy.

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         Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         

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      Titen-Sxullposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I imagine there are a handful of people who actually want theists to wow them with a good argument. I know I wouldn't mind seeing an original argument from a theist, unfortunately the history of the god debate is one of repetition of ideas. As for me, however, I come here to hone debate skills and maybe change the mind of an on-the-fence agnostic-theist who might come across the discussion.

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         Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         The more the merrier

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      Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Which of the aforementioned says there is no god?

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         Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Here is a selection of some of your quotes in the last month
         
         "I dont believe the bible or the koran or any other scripture I have looked at. It wasnt a choice, it just doesnt sound logical, reasonable or believable.
         
         Religion is an aspect of life to a religious person as beleif in santa is to a child.
         
         I think religion is just a ploy to get people to do what you want when you are unable to police them efectively.
         Works a treat dont you think?
         
         Most people who are not theists dont however, claim that there is no god. They simply state that there is no reason to believe in a god, as do I and that requires zero faith.
         
         You just showed that you dont see my non belief as a belief system and I thank you for your honesty in publicly negating your original assertion of atheism requiring faith."
         
         Now without splitting hairs do you not see why someone might not read and conclude you are an athiest?
         
         Atheist, noun:
         a person who does not believe in the existence of God or gods:
         http://english.oxforddictionaries.com/v … _gb0977070

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            Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            You posted many quotes of mine and not a single one stated that there is no god.
            
            I have never said that there is no god. That would be a claim as absurd as the claim that there is one.

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            1. 60

               Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Granted the existence or nonexistence of God cannot be readily proven. With that in mind am I correct that you sit on the fence? Though as you claim you have not categorically said there is no God, you must have an opinion. So what is it?

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                  Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  My opinion is based on evidence and that factual evidence leads me to the opinion that it is highly unlikely that any religion I have ever studied is 100% true. All scriptures I have seen are highly dubious.
                  
                  There may well be a god, but all evidence indicates that it is highly unlikely. If you were to ask me to estimate the chances of a god existing, I would place it at far less than 1%, but thats just my opinion.

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                     Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     I have some agreement with your first statement. No one can categorically state that the bible is 100% inspired by God and has been received by us unadulterated in the translations. The authors were fallible and the difference between what they sensed they were hearing and what they wrote may have been coloured by their culture and experiences. Furthermore when I compare the translations of different bibles I have, I occasionally see clear instances where the translator has pushed their own doctrine by being selective in the English words given.
                     
                     So far less than 1% suggests pretty near atheist but not quite.
                     
                     I appreciate you sharing your opinion with me. Too often people are prone to criticise the opinions of others but then don't clearly express their own.

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      Baileybearposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      isn't Paar 'peaceful muslim'?

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2. 0

   Twenty One Daysposted 12 years ago

   Nice.
   I have always believed those who claim atheism are closer for one of two reasons:
   a) they really, really want to believe and are waiting for something to cause that belief to happen or
   b) are out to just vent on their former 'friends in theo'. They can't just switch it off, especially after years of befriending theists, dancing with them and all that jazz. And maybe --as odd as it sounds-- are trying to 'save' theists in their own way.
   
   But proof is proof, at least 80% of HubPages Religion & Beliefs contributions (posts/comments) are by atheists. Now that IS interesting.
   
   James.
   
   Earnest says he is not an atheist. Maybe he is a humanist. Maybe the last humanist alive. hehe.

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      Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      You make a good point James. I often wonder if it is the Church, it's history, it's religious practices that is the problem. Maybe they long for the idealised God who just wants to be their loving Dad but they don't want to be associated with all the Christians.

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3. 60

   Merlin Fraserposted 12 years ago

   Yet, when I posted a couple of Hubs demonstrating that there are no Gods, stating that it was man who invented them, and not the other way around and showing why. 
   
   On more than a few occassions I have pointed out who invented the One God theory and when, but I am no atheist....
   
     My beliefs pre date any and all manmade Religions and I know beyond any doubt why such things were invented by the hand of man.
   
     For I am a Pagan.... We were all Pagan's once, yet many were forced away from their beliefs on pain of death....
   
   Now I wonder who can answer who were the ones doing the threatening and the killing ?
   
   All atheists may not be Pagan, but they harbour the need for Logic, Reason and Common Sense in their  search for the truth and answers, something that no holy book, no religion or preacher has ever come up with.
   
   Just the Smoke and Mirrors of "You have to have faith...Blind Faith... or the whole thing doesn't work."

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      Twenty One Daysposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Mr Fraser,
      
      With all due respect, I fail to understand how or why Faith would be void of both Logic/Reason and Sensation (emote senses). In fact, quite the opposite. In order to have the intangible manifest as envisioned, a person would have to apply both. Albeit, correctly --which is, in my humble opinion, the precise reason both theists and atheists are unsuccessful in Faith. One claims it by superfluous, the other claims by "super silly us".
      
      James.

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         Merlin Fraserposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         James,
         
         The faith of which I speak is not that demanded by any God, for no God has ever come forth and demanded anything from anyone save through the voice of a man.
         
         Man invented the Gods and then Religion as a means of excercising power over his fellow man and those men used that power in the form of God's words spoken only through them and the people bought it !
         
         They are still doing it.... I can see it plain as day why can't you ?

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            Twenty One Daysposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Quite possibly then, we are talking about the same or at least a close proximity of faith.
            
            Yes, 100% man invented the religions and all constructs of G/god(s). As equally as they created the sciences.
            
            But, I never saw faith as a requirement using any of those methods.
            I do however believe every human was created with and by something called faith and existed in [it], without necessity, without the need for control. hence why I say logic and emote sense are required to understand faith and really explains why those constructs were designed --because the powers that be were lacking one or the other --or both.
            
            James.

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               Merlin Fraserposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               I think at first Faith was demanded...then just became a habit.

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                  Twenty One Daysposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Hmm. interesting take.
                  
                  Good friend of mine, history professor, from Berk U agrees with one of my crazy ideas --which happens to be the basis for a book am near complete in writing. The concept basically is summed up in this: Humanity suffers from Amnesia. As a result, have lost nearly 90+ % of their understanding. To compensate for this memory loss, they have used what bits and pieces of understanding they have left to postulate the concepts of G/gods -in any form: from self as god to N.A. Earth Mother.
                  
                  We also agree that faith was the stasis humans existed in, a complete existence of Free Will, without needing (necessity) before the memory loss... How do I explain this... It is like some kind of frantic, panic seems to have gripped humans. it explains all the torment, the wars, the apathy, etc. He likens it to a frustrated person with Acute Dementia --often unaare of what they are really doing, the ramifications else a type of Alzheimer's (the later of which he suffers slightly from). They know something and in many ways it sheds a light on why these pro/con concepts exist, why humanity has deduced itself to technologies like quantum mechanics, wireless communication, medicine, mysticism and more.
                  
                  James.

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                     Merlin Fraserposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     I would accept that historical amnesia is as good a way of describing the long term habit of faith, the faithful continue to believe although they have long since forgotten why.
                     
                     History too forms the basis of my thoughts and theories, although I tend to go further back than most.  Through my own Pagan beliefs I accept the stories of Earth as being the Mother and I also believe that as old as mankind is he has always feared ignorance of the unknown which is why stories were made up to explain the unexplainable.
                     
                     Of course if you invent Gods then surely you must also invent those who can speak to the Gods and interpret their answers.  So to me I see no great mystery in the creation of religion, or the exploitation of the many by the few.
                     
                     Most people have no great love or understanding of history, for most it was a lesson that had to be endured and, correct me if I’m wrong, but I would assume that early European history from the Romans to the Norman Kings of England played little importance in the American classroom.
                     
                     Yet it is to those times one needs to look for the true significance of the early conversion of Pagan to Christian and yes there was a lot of threats, lies, persecutions, and executions along the way.
                     
                     One has to accept that until quite recent times man as an individual had little rights, if he was not a man of means or property he had no worth and was therefore someone’s property be that King or one of his nobles.  As such if a King converted then all below him followed or else, whatever you personally believed or held to be true was irrelevant, if you wanted to continue living.  So in the most part conversion was necessary to live out your life in reasonable peace and quiet.  At least going to church was a day of rest from toil so I doubt anyone complained. 
                     
                     In other words it became a habit....   Check out European history especially that of the Roman Catholic Church,  I think back then even I would have singing Halleluiah’s with the best of them !

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4. 61

   kessposted 12 years ago

   After being entertained for the entire evening at the harem,   the young suitor was determined to to take the young prostitute and make her his bride.....
   
   She was thrilled that a man really do thinks of her in such a way an he did give her the time of her Life....
   
   But marriage though she desired such a thing ...but only to a certain extent....Can she continue to be part of the harem and still be his bride?
   
   She realised that was an impossibilty, for as great as marriage seems, she would be so bored, missing out of so many things that the harem provides  for that which she desires most of all her identity Which is intricately tied to this Harem....
   
   For the Harem is her Life and without it she is just as nothing.
   
   So she say to him marry me but leave me in the harem and if you cannot do this, then good bye my love....maybe when you stop by again I might go with you, though the harem is hard at times it is still My Life....
   
   I cannot be a wife as yet, let me continue as a whore.
   
   The way of the forum and its participants  is the way of the harem with its whores.....

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      Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      No one has ever called me a whore before. It's quite a novelty.

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         Twenty One Daysposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         

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         kessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         why should any one deprive you of  what you believe to be yours....

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5. 62

   knolyourselfposted 12 years ago

   If one will not be God, then there is only faith.

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6. 0

   Sophia Angeliqueposted 12 years ago

   Isn't it interesting that this most personal aspect of one's inner life is so often used by so many to put down others. Each man wants to believe that he has the answers. Why? Because it's too scary to be wrong about something that is the core of one's life.
   
   So, if one cannot explain why someone can live without a belief in God, then one has to insist that there is a belief in God and the atheist just doesn't want to believe it.
   
   By the same token, those that believe are just too scared not too believe. It's too scary to believe that their lives mean absolutely nothing outside the meaning they give to them.

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      Merlin Fraserposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Not entirely sure of the point here,
      
      Surely a belief in religion is the core of someones life. How can no belief be a core ?
      
      I do not accept or believe there is a God and outside talking about it on Hubpages it plays no part in my day to day life in fact has no place in my thinking.  But there again I'm not an atheists.
      
      My pre religious Pagan historical research convinces me that it was man who invented the Gods, Man invented religion to exploit that early belief.
      
      I can fully understand why people who still follow such ancient myths would not wish to accept my findings for fear of appearing foolish.  I can live with it.

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         Sophia Angeliqueposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Merlin, I classify myself as an atheist. That means I don't believe there is a personal God. I do, however, have experience of an immense Life Energy that I think gives life to everything. I connect with this in ways I cannot explain. I always have been able to. Yet, I also know it has no personal plan for me, and does not in the least resemble the God of so many religions.
         
         What I am saying is that I have no need to speak about it and no need to put anyone else down because of their beliefs. To me, it's a strictly personal idea. I also accept that I might be completely delusional and it might also be my imagination.
         
         For various reasons, I don't think it's my imagination but I would never dare to have the arrogance to insist that I was right. Yes, I'm an atheist. I don't think there is a personal God. But I don't go on to Internet pages and blast it out to the world and tell everybody that they are wrong.
         
         So many people with different beliefs insist on going onto web forums and speak disparagingly of people who do not believe what they believe. Then, they have the audacity to get offended if others hit back at them. Then they even have the temerity to say that these people are attacking them.
         
         so, it goes, in one eternal cycle.

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            Merlin Fraserposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Yep !  OK Got it.  I too have Pagan beliefs, the life's engergy you feel is being part of the whole with every other living thing.
            
            To feel it or just be aware of it is enough to know we will not destroy this planet. 
            
            Unfortunately, when religion came along and announced that man was superior to all other life and God had given man dominion over everything, for me that's when it went Tits Up  and we are now paying the price of that Holy arrogance!

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               Sophia Angeliqueposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Merlin, I don't call my beliefs Pagan. I don't put a name to it and I don't want to put a name to it. That's because all these different belief systems have other stuff attached to it that I am not in agreement with.
               
               I merely state that I feel connected to some form of life energy. That's it. Nothing more.

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            Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Sophia,
            The purpose of my OP was Tongue in cheek. Over the year I've had many discussions with the top five here and I'd like to think they and indeed any atheist would understand that I'm only having a bit of a laugh.
            
            All to often it is those of a belief system that are ridiculed mercilessly here. So on balance I would have thought that nobody could possibly be offended by my post.

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               Sophia Angeliqueposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Well, then, with all due respect to you, you have a lot of learn. Let me teach you.
               
               One can only do sarcasm, irony, and tongue-in-cheek with people who know one well enough to know that it is those things. Also, those things can only be used in speech where the tone indicates what they are. They don't work on paper.
               
               Personally, I think  you're just:
               
               a) trying to get out of what you said.
               b) trying to force a conversation that has been done to death and is highly offensive because you've got nothing of merit to say.
               
               I don't think what you said is funny or contributes anything of worth.
               
               In fact, I've just read your profile. You're religious - a Christian. That makes what you've said double offensive.

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                  Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Well Sophia I would think that myself and the five listed would be a better judge of the nature of the relationship than you.
                  
                  I'm not backing down from anything I said. You have the barefaced cheek to think what I said was offensive; have you ever read some of the comments posted against people here. You really need to get a sense of perspective.
                  
                  Perhaps you have no sense of humour or maybe you don't understand British humour.

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                     Sophia Angeliqueposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Actually, I've spent a lot of my life in London. I'm half South African, half German. Has nothing to do with it.
                     
                     I merely point out - and if  you have a half a brain or are half way educated it - the necessary means to determine the way things are said are missing on paper. Tone and expression indicate what is said.
                     
                     And, yes, there are many things that have been said on these pages, but it's always the Christians that start it - exactly as you have.
                     
                     Of course, you're not backing down from anything you've said. That's why I find your post to me ridiculous.

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                     Sophia Angeliqueposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     And one more thing, you butted into a conversation I was having with Merlin and not with you. So you're the one with the chip on your shoulder.

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   earnestshubposted 12 years ago

   Who confirmed me as an atheist?
   I would have thought my position has been clear on this.

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8. 66

   RKHenryposted 12 years ago

   No we are not "closet believers."
   
   Are you for real dude? 
   
   Here's a question for you.
   Christians- Closet believers of the Tooth fairy?

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