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I highly recomomend that Christains do not read this thread!

  1. profile image0
    sandra rinckposted 9 years ago

    I think is a fraud, a fake, a liar.  I think he is evil.  I use to think he was great but....

    I have considered a few things,

    1. He wants you to hate your mother and father.  He said that if you do not hate your mother and father you will not go to heaven.  -umm....excuse me Jesus, come again, I must not have heard you right.

    2. From sitting in church and listening to these so called, holy people or called on people by the Holy Spirit himself say... Your anti-christ will be the seemingly nicest person ever.  He will be able to create miracles and then he will destroy you.-umm....Didn't Jesus make miracles, doesn't he seem like the nicest person ever, isn't he the one who is coming to destroy mankind?  Yeah,  I don't think I like Jesus very much.

    3. If the only other spirit in the garden was a serpent, considered Satan, where was Jesus???

    4. Jesus can't seem to make up his mind about whether or not he is God.  -umm...Worship God, Jesus...I am God....Jesus, From this point foward I am God...love your enemy, hate evil doers, don't make company with people who do not believe I am God, He forgives adulterers but not people who don't love him, but the real God gave life because He is LOVE and because GOD loves us, not because we love Him.

    5. He loved to use the lowly, weak, lawless the liars to do his work and calls them rightous and blessed.

    6. He says the only way to the Father is through him, yet he claims to be God. - how does that work out?

    7. Everyone else said he never sinned, yet he lies continuously throughout the book.

    8. There is no proof he was resurrected other then testemony by the apostles who ate this magic bread that could very well have been poisoned to make them think that they had seen him later, when they were just trippin out on Payote or something.  (I am speculating).

    9.  There is a drug that came from a plant, though at the moment I cannot remember the name of it, that supresses the heart or your funtions to the point were it seems as though you are dead and wears off three days later and it was used back in thier time.- Lazereth...three days later Jesus seems to know where to go an raises him from the dead and says he wasn't dead, he was sleeping.  No sh*t he was sleeping. 

    Anyways,  I could go on but I think that is enough for now.  Let me work my magic now.  This is what the response will be...

    1.  I am going to Hell, and you are right.  I will eventually.
    2.  I am a horrible person- I disagree, I love people regardless and I don't even hate Jesus I just think he is the greatest deceiver ever known, one who can convince billions and billions of people that he is God.
    3.  I am confused.  Yeah, sure ok, if you say so.
    4.  I have no business with the Bible and I dont know what I am talking about.  Well suit yourself.  But I believing in someone who promises to destroy mankind and who wants me to hate my parents and this life, is not someone I consider to be good.
    5. and of course when he was preaching to the world that he is just like us, it's because he was lying.  He is a liar, and he picked the best liars to spread his dirty work.

    1. mohitmisra profile image60
      mohitmisraposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      I am not a Christian yet I love Jesus he is one of my heroes.
      Remember, there are two i s.
      There is Sandra the human and  Sandra -One -God.It is normal for mystics to speak in opposites as both are true.Surprising with your spiritual knowledge you have something against this master. smile

    2. PeterJ profile image59
      PeterJposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      umm, no he didn't. could you cite the chapter and verse from the bible please?



      I thought he was meant to coming to take people away from a world of sin but yeah, destruction comes into it although that's down to the anti christ not jesus, he's supposed to be saving the righteous from eternal damnation (apparently)


      good question


      Jesus never claimed to be god, in fact when he was asked if he was god he replied, "do you call me the son of god?"



      each of the twelve apostles was a high ranking member from each of the twelve tribes of Israel they weren't criminals although he did mix with every type of person as he believed that all could repent and be saved - do your research.



      I think that what he actually means is that the only way to god is through belief in his teachings, which were regular prayer and meditation. he also fought to remove materialism from Judaism by overturning the moneylenders tables in the temple.

      also, do we know he definitely said this. much of the final version of the bible wasn't laid down until the council of nicea and to me it seems like a gerat way to make sure the serfs keep believing in the church and paying their tribute.



      I don't recall instances of him telling lies but he certainly did things which other Jews of the time considered blasphemous, like working on the sabbath



      no there's no proof, but all religions have to have an element of faith don't they?


      no, really?



      from what i've read it was viper venom mixed with the wine which jesus drank just before he passed out and apparenlty died. I'd like to point out though, just as there's no proof of Jesus's resurrection, there's no proof for the theory that you're putting forward either.



      I think you mean Lazarus, not Lazareth. translations of the dead seas scrolls have explained this. the term 'raising the dead' was actually the name given to the act of accepting somebody back into the church who had previously been excommunicated i.e dead to the church.

      similarly, 'healing the blind' was bringing a none believer into the church so that they 'saw the light' - again, do some research


      I doubt it


      I don't think you're horrible, just horribly ignorant of what the bible actually says or deliberately misrepresenting it.


      I don't think you're confused, just ignorant of the facts or working to your own agenda.


      anyone who wants to read the bible has 'business' with it. but damn it, read it girl cos at the most you've skimmed it and totally misrepresented it.

      if people are filling you full of BS about what's in the bible then stop listening to them and actually study it




      hang on, earlier on you were saying he claimed to be god and couldn't be cos he's just a man but now you're saying he claimed to be just like us but wasn't. you're kind of underminig your own argument there. roll

      pretty much everything in your OP was a misrepresentation of the Bible/Jesus, whether this was because you have a personal agenda to undermine christianity or whether it's because you haven't actually taken the time do anything other than watch ropey documentaries on Discovery channel I don't know but pretty much everything you wrote was wrong.

      wow, can't believe i'm actually defending christianity, if you check out my first hub you'll see I'm more of an occultist than christian. i just can't stand to see people spread lies or disinformation about any religion.

      1. Misha profile image77
        Mishaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        If you at least bothered to read the whole thread before posting, you would have seen answers to many of your questions, and would not appear like a jerk insulting a person who is not capable of lying at all...

    3. usmanali81 profile image60
      usmanali81posted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Dear Sandra,

      We Muslims love Jesus Christ (peace be upon him) more than Christians themselves. So, this post really irritated me and compelled me to remove your misconceptions about Jesus (pbuh).

      First of all if you do not believe on Bible, it's your right and your choice is the best one because Bible is the corrupted form of a number of books which were not written by Jesus (pbuh) himself. And it's clearly evident that these Bibles were written by John, Mathew, Luke etc and not by Jesus (pbuh). The language which Jesus (pbuh) spoke was a Hebrew language and the current flavors of Bibles are in English and over the long history these Bibles were intruded interfered and interpolated by Popes and Priests according to their needs.

      Qur'an, Ch 5-The Table, 13-14
      13. But because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard; they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them- barring a few - ever bent on (new) deceits: but forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): for Allah loveth those who are kind.

      14. From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them: so we estranged them, with enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the day of judgment. And soon will Allah show them what it is they have done.

      Qur'an, Ch 7-The Heights, 162
      162. But the transgressors among them changed the word from that which had been given them so we sent on them a plague from heaven. For that they repeatedly transgressed.

      Regarding Jesus (pbuh) claimed to be God, No, not at all.

      Qur'an, Ch 4-Women, 171
      171. O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.

      Even these corrupted Bibles did not say a word about TRINITY; this same word came in Qur'an in the above mentioned verse. Look at the irony, these Popes cry about TRINITY and the word is not there in the complete range of Bibles whether old or new testaments.

      Now, coming to the resurrection, Yes, Jesus (pbuh) was not resurrected rather resuscitated and will come back to remove the black curtains which these popes have laid on ordinary Christians that Jesus (pbuh) was God, he claimed divinity, he was resurrected, Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is not the natural successor of Jesus (pbuh) so on and so forth.

      Gospel of Mathew: Ch 7:V 22
      22. "Many will say to me on that day, 'My Lord, my Lord, did we not prophesy in your name
      and in your name cast out demons and in your name perform great powers?'
      23. "And then I will declare to them that, I never knew you, go away from me, workers of abomination.

      And also Jesus (pbuh) on his return will kill the Anti-Christ for whom these Freemasons, Zionists are eagerly waiting and forcing to establish New World Order which paves a spineless path for Anti-Christ to come and rule the world with tyranny, injustice and magic of Ancient Egyptians and Kabbalah.   

      So my dear, you are left with no other choice except ISLAM, QUR’AN, MUHAMMD (PBUH), ALLAH-One True God. Whether you follow Islam or these false doctrines of Ancient Egypt and Freemasons like Humanism, Atheism, Materialism in which all praise goes towards Humans and Materials, not Allah, you must take care in making the final dicission.

      Remember! Always make smart choices in your life which benefits you in the long run.

    4. profile image0
      Writer Riderposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Trust me, you need to be careful about who you trust. Just because someone of a certain faith preaches you things doesn't mean you should take them at face value. Do your research. Be careful of people who are coy and insulting your religion when you first meet them. Some will do anything to make you part of their religion.

      -Someone who knows

  2. knolyourself profile image59
    knolyourselfposted 9 years ago

    I got converted to christianity in the 7th grade from paganism. I remember one of the first things that began to happen was that
    I was suppose look down on my best friend at the time because
    he was catholic. And I began to look at people like they were
    evil. And I could go on and on. 'But I feel much better now.'

  3. Misha profile image77
    Mishaposted 9 years ago

    Welcome to the club smile

  4. relache profile image89
    relacheposted 9 years ago

    Sandra, have you ever considered that your problem isn't with Jesus at all but with Christians? 

    After all, he didn't do or say ANY of those things you're complaining about.  All that was just made up by other people and attributed to him.

    1. profile image0
      sandra rinckposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      if you say so.  smile

      1. SparklingJewel profile image77
        SparklingJewelposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        Hi Sandra smile long time no "see" ! talk, converse, etc smile smile smile anyway... I have gotten all moved again, and working on getting comfortable in a new place, again...

        The way I see it after 20 years of seeking through the many avenues of thoughts and beliefs, is that Jesus, or whoever the mystic was/is, either did say something similar and that everyone's interpretation is what they make of what he said...OR that Jesus never said what other people say he said.
        Regardless, it is still up to us the individual to believe and have faith that we are guided by a higher "Source" through intercessors such as ...Jesus, angels, masters, elohim, Mohammed, Krishna, Buddha, etc...
        AND that we have a lower unenlightened component of consciousness that is to be overcome daily until we can get to the point where our faith is stronger than our lack of faith, in that higher guidance.
        The more we  speak of lack of faith, the harder it is to maintain the mystery walk of faith day to day. Stay focused and don't let others sway you from your walk each day.

      2. dingdong profile image60
        dingdongposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        cool

  5. topstuff profile image60
    topstuffposted 9 years ago

    Sandra i feel you have partially become muslim.Pehaps you will disagree but  you are unaware of it.lol

  6. profile image0
    sandra rinckposted 9 years ago

    When it comes to Jesus I see two things.  Good and Bad.  I can see he was thinking he was doing a good thing for the world.  However I just do not buy into salvation only coming through him only.

    I really do think he is the "great deciever" but also think that his purpose was good as to draw out peoples true innerselves and to get people to acknowledge they do these things:

    What I see because of Jesus, is people willing to do anything to get into the pearly gates. 

    I see that Jesus is destroying this world, his magic being worked through his anit-christian (Christain) followers, and he said: It is not for us to make revenge that he will do it.  So essentially he is, and there are very few if any at all real Christains. 

    His followers are his counterparts who still chose to hurt, say aweful things, insight wars, steal money, are too proud to be humbled even when the truth is dangling in front of thier faces because they have become too proud in believing that they know everything and what Jesus asked of them, and that to hate (though they say they don't) anyone who says otherwise.

    Like not making divisions between us, what is going on?  Many divisions, many who boast they know, this is the way and ridicule those who will not accept this graven image of dead guy nailed to a tree. 

    His anti-christain followers care more about something they do not have instead of what they do have.  Isn't it a sin to desire something that does not belong to you?
    So I see they don't care about us, or this life (not true for all of course cause met a couple of Christains that are good and do practice very well what they preach) if they did, they would be striving for unity, which is a unity that comes by diversity, not divisions, and how do you do that? 

    You accept and love them all, you make peace despite you utter differences or opinions, you shut your mouth before you say something hurtful or stupid, you become aware that all people are not the same, that love is unconditional, there is no fear in love because love has no business with hate and I don't care how many christains will tell me that I am wrong because I refuse to hate period.

    I think it is an aweful, aweful thing to say that God does not love me or anyone else who feels that God does love us with all our problems.  If my mother can love me this way unconditionally, then so can God.  If I can love unconditionally, then so can God.

    So to hear someone say, that God does not love me...This is where I draw the line.  This is where I get mad.  This is (in my opinion) absolutly unacceptable, and I think anyone who says differently is ill.

    And this is why I do not believe in Jesus.  I do not believe I need someones approval to be loved by God.  I am not going to ask for Jesus' stamp of approval to be salvaged. 

    I see more love through a person who does not believe in Jesus or God even, and if those people are not acceptable to God, then I want to go out with the unacceptable ones.  I wanna hang with the good people, the ones that know what love is, the ones who accept me for what I am and who I am. 

    You see, we/I may be Jesus' trash but we/I am/are Gods treasure/s.  smile

    1. SparklingJewel profile image77
      SparklingJewelposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      I am glad that you have not accepted the "acceptable way of Jesus" put forth as you have said. In my book, they have mis-created a false sense of the purpose that Jesus came to show/share. And that is the Christ consciousness that we all have in our highest being, and that we are working on re-attaining by overcoming our lessor human/carnal traits.that are destructive to True Selves and to that of others.

      I believe there are the messengers of God from every religion and wise people from all philosophies that have come and gone, but while alive, tried to show this concept in its pure form...for they were "getting the message" from God, too.

      Jesus was the only one that showed the ultimate potential for one's soul, which was to overcome even the physical body and to transform into a Lighter being. All the others showed degrees of the potential, but because Jesus "conquered" the slowest vibrating form of the human being in mater (remember we all are made up of an etheric body, a mental body, an emotional body and a physical body), he was the highest example to date to follow, (and I believe to ask for Spiritual guidance and healing [since I believe in the intercession of Spiritual Beings]).

      Other higher Spiritual beings can help too, but I believe Jesus is the most important, especially for Westerners, because of the way they have misinterpreted his teachings. They have to balance their karma/sin of their misinterpretations.

      1. profile image0
        sandra rinckposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        I believe you are right.  I was reading my cards the other day, which idicated much of what you said here. 

        They read, confusion to my enemies, a healing heart, or removal of things that are ill in the heart, some distractions, turning from "traditional ways", a mass of people ready to contend with my possition, but a triumphant hand in my beliefs, a new form of consciousness, and one that I know for myself.  smile

    2. Veronica Bright profile image60
      Veronica Brightposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Well, I am a Christian, and I read your inviting thread.  Although I respect your feelings, I disagree.  Whatever anger invoked this posting, it is indeed hateful (Of Christians).  I feel no threat as a result.  There are Christians that speak through both sides of their Mouths, I myself can attest to that.  However, some of your statements confuse me.  Jesus taught us to hate our Parents? Did I miss that?  I am a Christian who can feel anger, and yet love the person who angers me.  I am a Christian who knows that we (Christians) are no better than anyone else.  I am a Christian who has seen, and believe in Paranormal activity.  Perhaps I am no ordinary Christian, but I do recognize hate when I see it, and my dear, with all due respect, your thread was hateful, so you cannot say you refuse to hate.  Don't give up on all Christians.  Some of us are not "Holier than thou" and look down our noses at other views.

      1. Misha profile image77
        Mishaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        Yes, you did smile


        1. Veronica Bright profile image60
          Veronica Brightposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          Misha;  While I thank you for the assistance, I also know you should never take anything written, anywhere, out of context.  The Bible is full of parables, and other teaching tools, so to be fair, posting one verse of a script is taking it out of context.

          1. SparklingJewel profile image77
            SparklingJewelposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            You all are talking about a mystical issue in this parable. Jesus was talking about the concept of the importance of putting relationship with God above the human relationships that can distract a soul from connecting with God because of some of the human needs and desires that are feeding human ego needs and desires instead of putting God first.

            It's a very individual perception to distinguish between the human psychology aspects, needs and desires.

            Jesus as the Christ is similar to Shiva in Hinduism. He came to "destroy" all that is less then God in the human consciousness, and I believe, that has accumulated over the lifetimes of each soul as karma that needs to be balanced.

            the spiritual concept of the sword is meant to "divide the real from the unreal"...carnality from God consciousness. The psychology of a soul that comes from of the sense of separation from God that the human ego perpetuates and the fallen ones prod on ad nauseum.

            1. mohitmisra profile image60
              mohitmisraposted 9 years agoin reply to this

              Well said it is about having any sort of attatchment. God comes first.
              When do you see, meet God,
              Whenever you decide to ,when you want nothing. smile

      2. profile image0
        sandra rinckposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        Here is the thing, I said not all Christains that there are some but not many that are real Christians able of practicing what is good and the "good and loving" message Jesus preached.  I think it is absolutly wrong to "assume" that I am being hateful.

        This was the point I am trying to make,  it is the assumption that because I believe something differently that I must in some way "hate", as I said in prior post on this thread, 

        I don't not even hate Jesus.  This is my way of saying, just because I do not accept him as my personal savior and view what he did in a different light, does not mean I "hate". 

        I do view this a huge problem with Christianity.  The assumption that people whos inner spirits and hearts are so jaded by the actions of those who follow Christ, must hate, when in fact is so to the contrary. 

        Understandably, this is the internet, so while you may hear my words in your head in a different tone, my is very somber.  If I were angry or hateful of something I would just say it. 

        Thank you for your comment, and I do hope you are a real Christian because when I find them,  I know there is still some hope.  smile

    3. mohitmisra profile image60
      mohitmisraposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      However I just do not buy into salvation only coming through him only.
      What Jesus meant was that there is no other way to reach god except by one pointed concentration-his way is the same as all the other masters. He speaks the truth.What many may consider arrogant is simply the masters truth.
      You see, we/I may be Jesus' trash but we/I am/are Gods treasure/s.
      Jesus is god or gods representative on this planet so this statement is contradictory.No one can love you as much as Jesus or any of the great prophets, not your mother, father, brother ,sister or friends. smile

  7. Mark Knowles profile image61
    Mark Knowlesposted 9 years ago

    Yes Misha -

    If you are going to quote the bible, quote the entire thing.

    Veronica -

    Be careful what you ask for. You asked, Misha provided, and now you are telling him it does not mean what it says. big_smile

  8. Jewels profile image84
    Jewelsposted 9 years ago

    To the pro Christian movement!

    Matthew 10:34-37 wrote:

           " Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn "'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law--a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.' Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me."


    I can't see anything mystical about this verse.  It's pretty factual if you ask me.  Of course that's just my learned opinion.  A sword stands for truth and truth requires discernment. Nothing mystical about that.  If I see my mother as something greater than myself, then I am lesser than.  How is that my truth, to be lesser than someone else.  If I see my sister or brother as being greater than myself, then I do not honor myself.  If I love my son or daughter in greater quantities than I love myself, then I do a disservice to my son or daughter by only giving them a lesser portion of who I am.

    Nothing mystical about this at all.  It's not meant to be mystical.  A disciple is the same as an initiate.  An initiate is one who attempts to walk in the shoes of a man who reached enlightenment.  Which is what this man did.  No mean feat for any human.

    If you are not able to walk as Jesus did, if you are not able to make yourself understand that you are supposed to be walking the shoes of this man then stop pretending you know what the hell he is talking about.

    It is so so heartbreaking to hear such crap coming from so called Christians.  Your words are arhimanic in essence.  Best you find out what that means instead of just saying Satan is bad. To say that you cannot be as powerful as your mother and father, is the most dissempowering statement.  Very manipulative isn't it.  If you want to keep worshipping something outside of yourself go right ahead.  Just exactly what Satan wants you to do.  You Christians are being conned.

    1. mohitmisra profile image60
      mohitmisraposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Nice- Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me."
      It is so so heartbreaking to hear such crap coming from so called Christians.Yes it is sad when a Master or Religion is ridiculed for lack of understanding.I am not a Christain and yet it saddens me.

      1. mohitmisra profile image60
        mohitmisraposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        It is the truth when Jesus says I am the way.The Bhagwat Gita also says this as its also true,both stand for the same thing the soul merging with the supersoul or Holy Spirit.There is no ego involved when a master speaks as it is the truth which belongs to us as well.smile

    2. Make  Money profile image81
      Make Moneyposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      To the contrary.  Satan wants you honor yourself and to think that you can be your own god.

      Since the Da Vinci Files aired there seems to be an insurgence of spiritualism and esoteric thought.

      Roselyn Chapel, that was highlighted in the movie the Da Vinci Files, is connected to Freemasonry and the Knights Templar.

      Statue to the fallen angel, lucifer at Roselyn Chapel.
      http://www.traveladventures.org/continents/europe/images/rosslyn-chapel09.jpg

      The green man, a pagen god is featured 110 times in Roselyn Chapel.
      http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6b/Rosslyn_chapel_green_men.jpg

      Again Roselyn Chapel is connected to Freemasonry and the Knights Templar.  Because of their writings the Knights Templar were accused of worshiping an idol, sometimes referred to as Baphomet.
      http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a4/Baphomet.png


      http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/pics/grandlodge_goats.jpg

      See more masonic symbols on this web page.
      http://www.delusionresistance.org/chris … _pics.html


      Be careful of what you are talked into these days.  False prophets abound.

      1. profile image0
        sandra rinckposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        If God is inside, then how can she have made a false statement?

      2. Make  Money profile image81
        Make Moneyposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        Just trying to show the same as my other post in this thread Sandra.  That false prophets abound these days.

        1. profile image0
          sandra rinckposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          And I am trying to say that it is not right to fosake mankind for the sake of eternal life.  Remember the story of was it Solomon who was the judge over the two women and the one baby who died? 

          The real mother would go without than have her baby hurt.  Think about it Mike.  smile

    3. PeterJ profile image59
      PeterJposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      the whole christian religion has been about disempowering the people. keep them believing in a heavenly afterlife and they won't revolt in this life.

      even the Lord's prayer is about disempowerment:

      "Thy will be done" - I don't think so

      1. Jewels profile image84
        Jewelsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        Peter J, I think it's disempowering because of it's interpretation. The bible certainly is open to misinterpretation and this is where there are so many arguments. 

        The statement "Thy will be done", to me, is also a misinterpretation.  People look outside again as if it means 'obey me.'  Will is a huge word and to many it means the ability to do.  Well it is the ability to do.  But there is a difference between doing up ones shoelaces and facing every fear known to man and doing anything regardless of limitations.  In this understanding there is will (small w) and Will (capital W).  To me it means to have the Will of God, be as God is.  The disempowering angle is the thought it is about being lesser than, or be subservient.

        1. PeterJ profile image59
          PeterJposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          if you look at the origins of the Lord's prayer - the qabalistic cross ritual it goes like this (the words in capitals are what you say, the words in brackets are the translation)

          touch forehead ATOH (thou art)
          touch breast MALKUT (kingdom)
          left shoulder VE GEBURAH (power)
          right shoulder VE GEDULAH (glory)
          clasp hands in fron of chest LE OLAHM (for ever and ever)
          put hands in traditional prayer gesture AMUN (so be it)

          this is all done while visualising a light from the heavens entering your body and travelling down your spine, this is, in effect a prayer to open yourself up to the light of god (for want of a better phrase).

          now the word power equates to will and in this ritual you are invoking your own strength of will and so, looking at the original prayer I would be in agreement if it wasn't for the fact that the english translation is so different.

          no meditative practice is undertaken with the lord's prayer. instead, the prayer first of all wishes for the destruction of the world (thy kingdom come) offers god no resistance to throwing any kind of crap at you (thy will be done)

          then later the fact that 'we are all sinners' is reinforced by a plea for forgiveness for trespasses. making sure the people all believed that they were inherently sinful was a great way of keeping arses on church pews and coins in the coffers 

          the Lord's prayer is so far removed from the original prayer that it's meaning and purpose have been perverted beyond all recognition.

          1. Make  Money profile image81
            Make Moneyposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            No PeterJ you are mixing the Lord's Prayer with the act of blessing yourself.

            touch forehead (In the name of the Father)
            touch breast (and of the Son)
            left shoulder (and of the Holy)
            right shoulder (Spirit)
            clasp hands in front of chest (Amen)

            The end of Our Lord's Prayer that says "Thou art the Kingdom, the Power and the Glory for ever and ever' was not part of the original Our Lord's Prayer.  It's true but it was added to the King James Bible later.

            In the Our Father (Our Lord's Prayer) when we say "Thy Will be done" we are confirming that God's Will will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven no matter what.



            No Jewels Jesus is saying "Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me" (meaning more than Jesus Himself).

            The idea of considering yourself as a god does not exist in Christianity.

            It is a shame to read that some would give up eternal life for a good orgasm.

            Mike

            1. profile image0
              sandra rinckposted 9 years agoin reply to this

              you never had an orgasim Mike?

            2. Jewels profile image84
              Jewelsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

              Mike, LOL, I would never give up eternal life for a good orgasm.  However understanding the makeup of our subtle bodies, the experience of an orgasm creates a whole state of consciousness that is not of an 'earthly' nature.  It's difficult to explain this without a whole context on subtle bodies.  It goes far beyond physical pleasure.  The experience of holding Fire, ie holding the love of a Divine source is a massive experience.  It's not just a mind experience. It's very very difficult for a man to experience such states because of the grasping nature of sex for the male.  Saying this, it is not impossible for a man to reach massive states during the sexual experience.   I was being quite flippant in my expression in that post you refer to.  But in all seriousness I have experienced high states through this act and it was both beautiful and profound and one of those points in life where I feel closer to my higher self than ever before.

              You saying the idea of being god does not exist in Christianity - Well this is where me and Christianity don't mix.  This is what I talk about when I speak of the ploys of an Ahrimanic agenda.  You cannot look outside yourself to ever be divinity.  And so in Christianity it is encouraged to remain separate.  This will be the undoing of Christianity, or the success of Lucifer.

              1. Make  Money profile image81
                Make Moneyposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                lol  Do you actually think for one moment that lucifer will succeed with anything.

                I think I'll pass on this thread from now on.  At least now the rest will know what they are dealing with.  No beating around the bush anymore.

                1. Jewels profile image84
                  Jewelsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                  I hope not.  You must look at the state of play on the planet as we speak.  And you tell me who is winning?  Doesn't mean I am conceding defeat by the way.  But reality check - how many people do you know who are really awake and in control of their lives.  Look at the stock market, look at poverty, look at materialism as a way of life.  How many people do you know who are really at peace with themselves, or are seeking to be enlightened by their own divinity?

                  I may be wrong but it appears because I am using the names Lucifer and Ahriman that you seem to be shunning me as if I have sinned or something.  I don't quite understand your implication, saying you will now pass on this thread.  Sounds like you think I condone the dark side.

    4. AEvans profile image79
      AEvansposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      IHopefully I will be able to explain with respect to your opinion. In Christianity God comes first as he is the one who leads by example to all of his followers, The husband comes second as he is the breadwinner and keeper of the home, the wife comes third as she at that time was the homemaker, mother and rock for the family, daughter or son comes next who are the children that have to be led to become all they can be , by both parents. When you become an adult you are equal to your mother and or father.

      It is also written Matthew 10:38-39 and anyone who does  not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. Matthwe 10: 40 He who recieves you recieves me, and he who recieves me recieves the one who sent me.

      If you read prior to Matthew 10:34-37 it also says : Matthew 10:32-33 Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge them before my father in heaven. But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my father in heaven.

      Satan is a fallen angel of God therefore he is dark and evil you should read "A Letter From Satan " that I published as he does do damage, Satan conned Eve and look what happened. God tried to work with SATAN but he did not listen. I don't see it as mystical and I have walked in your shoes , however it took something to knock me on my noggin to realize that GOD is real. I would never push what I believe on anyone however I do Love my Lord and saviour. I believe you are looking for an  answer or the article would not be written. smile I hope one day as I did you will find your answers.

      1. Jewels profile image84
        Jewelsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        AEvans, I did feel your genuineness in what you believe and your compassion in passing it my way.  I respect that this is your way to your divineness.

        It is so interesting (and I surprised myself with this revelation) that in my most joyous moments I became grateful that Satan exists.  Because if it were not for the dark side I would not know how wonderful the light is.  Amazing what life presents to you.

        1. profile image0
          sandra rinckposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          You should read "I am God's Bitch".  I know this is somewhat a spam, but it seems like you and I have traveled down the same road.  It aint too long and I think you would laugh cause you would definately get it.  smile

        2. AEvans profile image79
          AEvansposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          you are quite welocme as God inspired me to write it to you smile I am happy to have been of some type of assistance I have been where you are and I clearly understand. smile God Bless

          1. Jewels profile image84
            Jewelsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            Ummmm, I didn't need assistance,   but thank you for your humanness, that is always a good thing, for everyone.

            1. AEvans profile image79
              AEvansposted 9 years agoin reply to this

              Jewels I couldn't agree more , now if everyone could agree it certainly would be a better world to live in smile of course we know that isn't even going to happen however it would certainly be nice. smile

  9. profile image48
    andrewgposted 9 years ago

    Arhimanic is not in my Oxford dictionary. Can I ask what you mean?

    1. Mark Knowles profile image61
      Mark Knowlesposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      http://uncletaz.com/ahrimdec.html

      What's wrong - google broken? lol

      1. Jewels profile image84
        Jewelsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        Mark, you crack me up.  Thank you. lol

        1. Mark Knowles profile image61
          Mark Knowlesposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          My pleasure. Welcome to the discussion smile

  10. Jewels profile image84
    Jewelsposted 9 years ago

    I read a book called The Nine Faces of Christ whilst I was doing a long meditation sit (yes you're allowed to read in between mindlessness!).  It was written as a piece of fiction to explain how Jesus the son of a Nazareen went through his initiation to enlightenment.  Many chapters were dedicated to he being initiated through different doctrines, eg Celtic, Hindu, Buddhist etc.  It was the most heartwarming way of telling people how.  It never once put one doctrine as better than the other, but were all ways to reach their own Self. (Self meaning that which is void of mind and emotion).  It was the first time I could truly relate to this man as my brother and not some person sitting high up on some godly pedestal that I had to fear.

    And even though I am speaking about Jesus I am not religious.  I do believe there is a divine presence but feel it's irrelevant.  We're missing the whole point.  Anyone who feels there is something outside of themselves is being conned, big time taken for a huge ride.  If there ever was an arhimanic agenda this is it.   How beautifully mastered and crafted that the 'force of evil', the 'dark side' get people spitting venom around in the name of God.  Effectively not espousing love in all it's glory, but doing the opposite.  The godfearing doctrine does nothing but spew hate.  It's so darn clear, you can feel it.  You 'Christians' are working for the opposite side and you don't know it.  How absolutely clever.

    I've read time and time again peoples hubs and discussions  explaining why they don't believe in a God, saying they are atheist  and yet they are the most spiritual of people not because of their beliefs but their ethical standpoint and how they live their lives.  Spiritual to me has nothing to do with believing in God and certainly has nothing to do with religion.  I hate that word with a passion.  Religion is satanic, I've no doubt about it.   Equally I hear 'Christians' respond to said intelligent people's hubs with a force that can only be described as bullying righteousness based on clouded judgment. 

    To the 'Christians' again : The day I see and hear and feel you doing as Jesus did (according to what is written), I may change my mind about you lot.   Wake up, get enlightened and stop reading that darn book or listening to rubbish.

  11. Kika Rose profile image68
    Kika Roseposted 9 years ago

    "If I speak in the tongues of mortals and of angels, but do not have love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give away all my possessions, and if I hand over my body so that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.
    Love is patient; love is kind; love is not envoius or boastful or arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice in wrongdoing, but rejoices in the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
    Love never ends. But as for prophecies, they will come to an end; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will come to an end. For we know only in part, and we prophesy only in part; but when the complete comes, the partial will come to an end. When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became an adult, I put an end to childish ways. For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then we will see face to face. Now I know only in part; then I will know fully, even as I have been fully known. And now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; and the greatest of these is love."
    1 Corinthians 13

    Religion these days has taught me a valuable lesson; people are stupid. They're full of themselves. They don't understand that love transcends religions, races, cultures, continents. And that is why I am no longer Christian, nor am I anything.

    Yeah, that's a bible quote (hey, I said I'm NO LONGER Christian; doesn't mean I don't still have the paraphenalia lying about my room), and it's my favorite of all time.

    People spit venom about others. People sit and boast they are greater than others. People vye for others' things, then continue once they have it. People don't understand that we are all equal, that we all deserve to be loved, that no man should be left behind because your brain's screwed up and you think You > That other guy. And while even I want some things others have, and know that, socially, I am above others, I am equal to that hobo down the alley. I am equal to those snobs in the rich part of town. They may have more or less than me, but they are still my brothers and sisters, my kin in humanity. Black, white, brown, purple, green; color means nothing in people, for we are all equal. The only time color should matter is if you're painting a picture. We Are Equal, And We Deserve To Be Treated As Such, No Matter Who You Are.



    Oh, also: Jesus didn't say to hate your parents, he said to love him above them. :-P Didn't you guys have Sunday School when you were little? I thought that was obvious. (lol)

    1. profile image0
      sandra rinckposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Percisly the point of the thread, they (christians) are reading into the wrong message.  Like Jewels said, they are on the wrong side and they don't even know it.  Like the many times I have said: you have the truth dangling in front of your face and they are much to proud to see what they are doing because they always want to believe they are right. 
      It is a shame.

      Yes, yes, I know coming from a girl who said Jesus is evil. lol, but I am sure you right minded people know exactly what I mean by that, it's like a Jesus parable. lol.

      Jewels, rock on!

    2. Jewels profile image84
      Jewelsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      I agree, lots of stupidity on this planet, not reserved to Christians alone, lets be fair now!

      Kika Rose, we are sisters in some of our understandings.  I'm not so much against the Big Book, I don't reserve it's use to Christians though it does seem hijacked somewhat.  I'd go with a less biased version.  And then find a group of intelligent people who can be discernible and experiential in the interpretation of it. Discussions are great, truth can only come from yourself.

      Reading other texts on esoteric traditions can help get some perspective.  Though in the end a good philosophy to take is 'don't have beliefs.'  Take out of them what you need and ditch the rest.  In the end it's not a book that will make you love yourself.

      Not having beliefs makes me a nothing.  I don't have an ist or ism at the end of my name.  It allows me to be everything instead.

      1. Kika Rose profile image68
        Kika Roseposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        I didn't mean it as a whack at Christians. I know lots of smart ones, and lots of good ones. It was more toward everyone. We've forgotten what love truly is, and that is a dangerous thing.

  12. profile image0
    sandra rinckposted 9 years ago

    Wicked Fire

    Planting flowered trees all around town,
    words spoken, life changing
    Casting shadows of viscious time of yore,
    moons leading, heart singing.

    What a wicked fire burning down,
    until my soul it eats the ground,
    shooting embers straigt into my head,
    till the rest of me is dead.

    Vivid painting still hanging on the wall
    misleading, still reading,
    Justifying what the good book once had said,
    eyes bleeding, lifes meaning.

    Shooting embers straight into my head
    till the rest of me is left for dead,
    burning hot, then why am I so cold,
    it's the misery of what's fortold.

    What a wicked fire burning down
    until my soul, it eats the ground,
    shooting embers straight into my head
    till the rest of me is dead.


    written by yours truly, Sandra Rinck

  13. Kika Rose profile image68
    Kika Roseposted 9 years ago

    That was a very nice poem. smile I love writing poetry. Maybe I should post some of my stuff on a hub? lol That would be fun!

    1. profile image0
      sandra rinckposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      That would be nice!  I will be waiting.  smile

  14. Kika Rose profile image68
    Kika Roseposted 9 years ago

    MM, you should write a hub about that! I would read it!

  15. Jewels profile image84
    Jewelsposted 9 years ago

    Make Money, I'm not really sure what you are implying.  Am not being defensive just that it did feel a little condescending.

    "To the contrary.  Satan wants you honor yourself and to think that you can be your own god.

    Since the Da Vinci Files aired there seems to be an insurgence of spiritualism and esoteric thought. "

    I've had an interest in my own spiritual path well before the Da Vinci Files became fashionable.  (Was a good read though, I enjoyed it).

    But being careful is good advice.  Using discernment is at the top of my list when it comes to teachings of any kind.  It's primarily why I don't have beliefs because it's someone elses opinion on texts which, as we well know, can be misinterpreted, twisted, and used manipulatively.  And at the end of the day, it's not about someone telling you to do something, it is how you be in the world.

    But what is my Truth is that I must find the 'God' within myself.  It cannot be any other way for me.  That doesn't mean that I am making arrogant statements that I am better than anyone else.  It's allot more simple than that, yet it is extremely profound, and difficult in it's application.  The use of the word God as something outside myself feels absurd.  Everything I personally understand about the man Jesus tells me it's all about going inside myself.  Be as he is, walk IN his shoes.

    There is a misunderstanding, according to my own truthful perception, that the depths of ourselves is something not to be honored.  In order to be 'God' we must own every part of us, that includes the darkness.  And only by experiencing and then owning the darkness can we be the light, and as powerful as God.  It is not by ignoring it that we will become mighty, but by putting consciousness into it.  We have a choice as to whether we choose hate over love.

    God wants you to honor yourself and to think that you can be as he is.  Not separate.  That's the difference between The Light and the Dark - separation.  Paradoxically it's by going into the depths that you become the light.  It's only when you go into the depths and get caught in it that you either drown in the mud or play in the cesspool of corruption.  This is what the satanic reference is about - being your own separate God is not being God.  God means Union - no separation. 

    I've done allot of work on the Luciferic influences, and my own dark side.  And I can see the influences in memes and individuals. Sadly most people have no idea they are influenced, that's the Ahrimanic agenda in all it's glory.  The dumbing down of America for example is a classic example of a beautifully crafted ploy.  But that's another subject.  The suppression of sexuality is also a fascinating subject and ties in very well with the Ahrimanic Agenda.

  16. Misha profile image77
    Mishaposted 9 years ago

    Now you got me really interested in exploring what is "ahrimanic" smile

    1. Jewels profile image84
      Jewelsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Hi Misha, 

      How it relates to sex is that the church teaches sex is the work of the devil.  You can only have sex to keep the species going.  And the act of sex is not for pleasurable indulgence.

      Using the word indulgence puts connotations of guilt toward sexuality.  There is no arguing that there is abuse in sexuality.  This is where the balancing of light and dark forces come into play, where a persons integrity is tarnished by succumbing to the lower known indulgences of the act of sex, (rape, incest).  So as a result of the church ensuring it's followers do not succumb to the lower forces it teaches it's believers that sex is only for having children and nothing else.  This is in essence an Ahrimanic force.

      In reality, it can be through the act of sex that higher states of consciousness can be reached. I can attest to this one myself !!   It's not just the orgasm that's the heightened experience.  Major openings in consciousness is attainable.  Also by tapping into ones own sexual forces such things as contentment, appeasement of aggressive behavior, self empowerment by tapping into a source of strength which encourages self healing.  That healing is a result of a flowing sexual energy which with practice can cultivate the flow of life force.  This is a practical technique and tangibly felt.  By the way, this is not a tantric technique - well it could be, I've not practiced tantra but I am able to cultivate this energetic source not through sexual activity.

      You can see how the Ahrimanic influence nicely made it's way into the Christian teachings.

  17. Misha profile image77
    Mishaposted 9 years ago

    Wow! Thanks Jewels, it's kinda exhaustive explanation, and I guess I don't need to search any further smile

    1. Jewels profile image84
      Jewelsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Hey Misha, I hope I've not led you up the proverbial garden path. If you are really interested in it I would pursue it further.  It's a fascinating subject.  Mark gave a good link in this topic. Even though Rudolph Steiner can be difficult to read there are parts that really pass well.

      The scarey part about the principle is that it is so darn subtle that you are easily fooled.  It's like society being taught what is right, with a 'good reason why,' and a whole belief system manufactured.  But the right is not right and in the case of sexuality, this is going against what is natural.  Bit like turning the course of a river and making sure when the floods come you build levee banks.

      There is allot of literature on the subject.  A book called Lucifer and Ahriman is one.  Learning about social structures that are memes.  You think you are doing things for yourself but in fact you have been manipulated to think in accordance with the group's agendas.

      Then another reference is the movie  the Devils Advocate with Al Pacino.  This shows how subtle the Luciferic force is.  Makes you think more deeply about your own ethics, you think you are ethical, but are you! jajajaja.

  18. Lady Guinevere profile image60
    Lady Guinevereposted 9 years ago

    Well, Satan has really gooten me because I had an OOBE!  In that experience I had the wonderous enlightening experience of true love.  There is nothing like that here on this Earth.  I met Jesus---My Jesus.  Why do I call him My Jesus.........because he will come to each individual in the way that only they can understand him/her.  It is both and neither gender. When he came to me he didn'ty ask questions such as what religion I was or belonged too, he didn't aks me if I believed in him or who Ielievbed in.  He didn't even ask if I believed in God or anything like that.  He comforted me and said to me that everything was going to be OK.  He didn't tell me what was going to happen or anything.  Onjlyt the purest love did he show me.  Those who say they know what Jesus said and know what he was going through are just fooling themselves.  He is--or  we are all a part of the other.  There is no division to even try to understand or believe.Christians have told me that my experience was with Satan.  Go ahead and think that because I know different and there is nno nconvincing me that Jesus was all good or all bad and the same with Satan. There is no bad--only choices and each of us are living the outcomes of our choices.  Even a muderer has choices and so do those who have been murdered but tht murderer.  Does it meant nothing to any of you to Forgive one another and the Golden Rule?  Doesn't it mean anything to you to ridicule another and then say that you love another.  Oh and one cannot possibly love one and be angry with them at the same time.
    Just whose right is it to judge anyone else?  The original words that were translated were done so by npeople who were under the rule of greedy Kings.  No matter what the truth of such tells some christians will not see it.  There have been books not included in that Bible they cherish souch.  They are TOLD thta those books are not truth, but you go read them and you will see nwhy they chose not to allow them in the Bible.  They won't because they have been lead to believe they will sin to nread such things.  The greatest sin is that of suppressing of that knowledge.  In attempting to do that they have royally screwed nup the nteachings of Jesus.  The constantly teach from the Old Testament and they are told that those times are not valid in the New Testament.

  19. adrainsean profile image44
    adrainseanposted 9 years ago

    sandra rinck  I dont if you aware but some of your points mentions are the same as taught to people in islam Or rather by islamic leaders to most islam follower
    ( I am saying so I have not read the Holy quran or any sacred books of Islam so I just cant say for that these points exist in the books for sure, but i have seen and heard lectures of many such leaders who echo some of the points you have mentioned here...)

  20. Jewels profile image84
    Jewelsposted 9 years ago

    Lady Guinevere, I can relate to what you are saying.  Having an OBE is awesome, totally amazing., that is once you get over the shock you are having one!! LOL.   Admittedly there are murky places in spiritual realms and one attracts to themselves according to their choices.  But gods, there are some of the most beautiful experiences you could ever wish to have.  I've had similar experiences with "a Jesus'.  It's really difficult to put words and names to these presences.  If it's Satan - give me more of Satan that's all I can say.  I have never had the wanting or need to say Jesus, except when in the height of orgasmic experiences, then it's Jesus Christ, oh God!  He doesn't mind at all, he's pleased I'm having a good time.

    1. Lady Guinevere profile image60
      Lady Guinevereposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Jewels,
      I had no idea what an OOBE even was until many years later.  I didn't know that I was having one to even know when it eneded.  Understand that I was going through something really horrendous at the time.  You can read the full story in my book that I am writing inchapter 3---Whispers From Oz.

    2. Lady Guinevere profile image60
      Lady Guinevereposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Jewels,
      I had no idea what an OOBE even was until many years later.  I didn't know that I was having one to even know when it eneded.  Understand that I was going through something really horrendous at the time.  You can read the full story in my book that I am writing inchapter 3---Whispers From Oz.

    3. profile image0
      sandra rinckposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      I am laughing so hard I think I need to pee.  I wrote a hub about the thought of doinking Jesus.

      Interesting response there.  I prefer "Oh God!", Jesus Christ is a mouth full. lol

  21. profile image0
    sandra rinckposted 9 years ago

    what is an oobe???  smile

    1. Jewels profile image84
      Jewelsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      It certainly is out of body, another term is Astral Traveling.  It's one of those experiences you have that can turn your world upside down literally.  After having one, you come to understand that thoughts have little to do with your physical brain, the brain is a filter for thought, and consciousness is something that is retained beyond the physical body.

      1. profile image0
        sandra rinckposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        Do dreams where you are watching yourself count?

        1. Lady Guinevere profile image60
          Lady Guinevereposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          Those could be lucid dreams.  They might be classified as an OOBE too.  Flying dreams would be OOBEs too.
          Kundalini is also in the sign of the physician.
          We are here to learn and have fun, not to be controlled or scared by others..
          Everything is here for us nd because of us.

      2. kblover profile image89
        kbloverposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        I had a dream last night that I was watching myself sleeping.

        Does that count?

        It was freaky, I know that.

        I think a lot of it is missing in translation. The Bible wasn't written in English but translated into English, and with any translation some things are lost.

        Also, given the time was the 16th century (for the KJV) I'm sure that had a LOT to do with how certain things were phrased/translated.

        That is an awful thing to say God doesn't love someone just because they aren't Christian.

        And yes, I am a Christian. I also have no problem against other philosophies or spiritual methods/beliefs.

        The way I see - who knows what all power lies within our world and within the realm of nature? What we call "divination" or "psychic power" might just be tapping into those other veins that others can't/choose not to.

        Something as complex is nature can't be black and white only, imo.

  22. Misha profile image77
    Mishaposted 9 years ago

    I bet it is Out Of the Body Experience smile

    Jewels,

    I'm still deciphering what you said to me in your last post, my English is not quite up to the task, so I'll reply when I understand it completely smile

  23. SparklingJewel profile image77
    SparklingJewelposted 9 years ago

    Ancient mystical teachings "warn" of the kinds of astral wondering and uses of kundalini (sexual energy) that can be destructive if misused and forced to be experienced by ego entertainment and desires, just because "it is cool" or exciting.

    There is a "subtle body" of each individual that can be perforated when "messing around" with these kinds of energies, leaving one exposed to what one does not want to be exposed to.

    Not for playing around with; but there are useful endeavors that can be learned for genuine and positive service to humanity.

    1. Jewels profile image84
      Jewelsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      I agree here SJ, that's why I'm an advocate for putting consciousness into all of what we are and who we are.  That way we can be aware of the pitfalls and not be ignorant of them.  Suppression is a disempowering act and a major cause of depression - being half of who we are and not all of who we can be.

  24. profile image0
    sandra rinckposted 9 years ago

    no offense but, you should do your research as well.  Go back through the thead, Yes Jesus does call himself God, then he says he isn't.  He does say hate your mother and father etc...







    But hey, don't take my word for it.  smile

    1. PeterJ profile image59
      PeterJposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      i stand corrected on that point, apologies. I still think you're misrepresenting much of what is said though.

      for example, the above chapter from Matthew has to be taken in context of it's time. Jesus was causing huge splits within Judaism and there were people who supported him and others who oppsed him and he recognised how this would set families against each other

      this link goes into it somewhat.

      incidentally, I read in one of your hubs titled "If you really want to know God, open your hearts and close your eyes" that you wear a cross "because of the man, Jesus and his representation of hope, truth, and life and the promise of God" could you please explain this to me.

      i can't understand how someone who views him as a deceiver, potential destroyer of billions and all round bad guy can then claim they wear his symbol because of all the good he represents.

      1. profile image0
        sandra rinckposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        well isn't this were it gets fuzzy?  Everyone seems to have thier own ideas etc...So you want to know why I call him the deciever.  Simple answer, because some hear him and assume for whatever reason, that he must have meant kill and war and punishment and detroying evil etc.  Then other (which I assum is much like yourself) read him and say ok,  I will help where and when I can, I will show compassion, I will love people, I will forgive them etc... you see what I am saying.  As for that hub, I wrote it a while back.  I actually do not wear it anymore because I don't associate myself with being a christain, however I do see the good that Jesus represented. 

        Also,  if you want to read one, then you might as well read them all because it is obvious that people will read on thing and assume they know everything, which is the truth for the bible, which is the truth for much of the hubbers, so it is not wonder I view Jesus as the deciever, but I also call him the savior. 

        If you get it you get it, if you don't you don't.  Obviously it would depend on what you own heart is telling you and mine is telling me, that these so called Christains are ready to throw down and start a war.  Not for me and I am definatly not, not, not a christain.

        1. PeterJ profile image59
          PeterJposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          I definitely agree that religion is fuzzy and now you've explained your views I can understand where you're coming from, thank you for that.

          i'm in agreement that those christians who desire the end times worrying, if not downright scary, they seem intent on bringing it about and don't care about what happens to the people who are going to be worst affected by their wars - us.

          instead, we get the likes of Bush buying a large amount of land high in the Paraguayan mountains where no bombs are likely to fall (this can be checked on google)

          as for reading all your articles, well I've read two and I'm sure i'll read more, you interest me.

          you'll have to give me a while though, I may have joined two weeks ago but I've only really been here a couple of days and there are lots of great hubs to check out.

          i'm not christian either but i do find much about the christian ideal laudable. (apart from the whole bringing about armageddon thing , obviously).

  25. PeterJ profile image59
    PeterJposted 9 years ago

    also, there are much worse prophets in the bible.

    what about Moses, who encouraged his men to rape women and children after a battle?

    or Esau who called on the name of god to get two bears to rip 42 kids to bits after they laughed at his bald head?

  26. knolyourself profile image59
    knolyourselfposted 9 years ago

    I thought it meant: God's will be done.

    1. Jewels profile image84
      Jewelsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      It does, that's what I said. But God is not intended to be separate.

  27. Jewels profile image84
    Jewelsposted 9 years ago

    Sandra and Peter J

    This quote:
    Matthew 10:34-37 wrote:

        Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn "'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law--a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.' Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

    My opinion is that Jesus got a bum wrap over this statement.  From my understanding Jesus was sent as an awakener.  The sword is the sword of truth and in order to really know what your truth is it requires massive discernment.  Take away the influence of my father and mother (not God and Mary by the way), take away the influence of my 5 brothers (I don't have sisters in my immediate family).  Take away the pier pressure. Take away the influence of my school teachers and my boss.  Take away all the conditioning society has put upon me and let me stand with my own sword. 

    Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me (more than yourSelf, as this is what he is meaning), it is because you fear the reprisal of not loving them.  Twisted isn't it?  This interpretation delves into a persons survival instincts.  We learned to do for our father in order to be loved, to be appreciated, and to be fed.  Same with the mother.  Kids will do anything to be loved, especially compromise themselves for the sake of making a mother or father happy.  Happy parents are those that love their kids.  So I'll do anything to ensure my mum and dad love me.

    So Jesus is saying - get rid of this conditioning - step away from your parents and all that have put themselves on top of your sense of self.  And if necessary you will make enemies of them because to not be yourSelf is not being as God is.    It's often when people change that they change their friends also.  This is a 'curse' of being awakened.  You change your ideals and this often doesn't fit with old ways.  So this is one way of making enemies.  Doesn't mean shoot them.  But when your own truth is compromised you step away from what is compromising you.

    So Jesus is saying in modern terms "I have not come here to see you be custardy and lovey dovey to people when you don't really mean it."  "I've come to teach you how not to be a lemming and follow blindly the teachings of your father and mother and brothers and sisters. And I've come to show you how to be in your center regardless of what comes your way."

    (In Hindu teachings the Self is a state of consciousness (Atman in sanskrit).  This state of Self is void of pulls of thoughts and emotions - it's pure BEING, very blissful.  Ironically it's a state of nothingness. Like a total centredness, so much so you have no idea you are centered.  Difficult to describe unless you've experienced it. )

    1. mohitmisra profile image60
      mohitmisraposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      You have penetrated into the words and have understood very nicely.I also like the fact that you see the similarities in Hinduism and Christianity,just shows you have taken effort to understand.God bless,regards
      Mohit

  28. Jewels profile image84
    Jewelsposted 9 years ago

    Peter J.

    "no meditative practice is undertaken with the lord's prayer. instead, the prayer first of all wishes for the destruction of the world (thy kingdom come) offers god no resistance to throwing any kind of crap at you (thy will be done)

    then later the fact that 'we are all sinners' is reinforced by a plea for forgiveness for trespasses. making sure the people all believed that they were inherently sinful was a great way of keeping arses on church pews and coins in the coffers

    the Lord's prayer is so far removed from the original prayer that it's meaning and purpose have been perverted beyond all recognition."

    I agree and disagree.  I was brought up a Catholic and for the life of me I never knew what I was really saying when citing the Lords Prayer and Hail Mary.  Again it's interpretation.  Mind you, I was a kid - and nobody was explaining any of it to me properly. 

    One thing I've come to learn is that there are priests and nuns who use these practices in a meditative form (it surprised me cause I only thought they went mad at you in a classroom).  This knowledge was well hidden from my everyday state of consciousness.

    'thy kingdom come' - my understanding is that this is returning heaven to earth.  The Fields of Peace is the term I use.  It is perhaps calling for the end of suffering which is the state of the world after the Fall (Adam and Eve).  It's asking for the return of the state of play before the separation of the sexes - the Adam and Eve disaster.  My understanding is that when there is a full transformation, earth will be heaven.  We certainly are mucking this one up!

    Thy Will be done.  It's not a demand.  Another twist which makes it sound like - 'be obedient you lot and do what I tell you.'  It's the Will (capital W) state of consciousness.  No limits doing, no fear, awesomeness.  It's like Love with Power - Fire with might.  It burns by the way.  Icarus - the one who got too close to the sun, fell to earth and died.  It meant that he opened himself to the full love of divinity - as much power and love and fire he could take, and burned.  Yikes.

  29. Jewels profile image84
    Jewelsposted 9 years ago

    Peter J

    ouch forehead ATOH (thou art)
    touch breast MALKUT (kingdom)
    left shoulder VE GEBURAH (power)
    right shoulder VE GEDULAH (glory)
    clasp hands in fron of chest LE OLAHM (for ever and ever)
    put hands in traditional prayer gesture AMUN (so be it)

    this is all done while visualising a light from the heavens entering your body and travelling down your spine, this is, in effect a prayer to open yourself up to the light of god (for want of a better phrase).

    This is nice, thanks for sharing it

    (For a long time I had allot of trouble using the word God.  It brought up so much anger toward the church.  Lies and fabrications and twisted confusing teachings.  Made me mad.  I can say it now and can honestly say I don't have any associations with the church or christianity, though according to some hubbers I can't say God without being christian!)

    God to me is a Divineness inside me and not some external deity.  Jesus was a man who showed everyone how to get enlightened, nothing more, nothing less. Poor guy, had a hard job didn't he.

    1. mohitmisra profile image60
      mohitmisraposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      The most difficult job a human can do.Like Guru Nanak said "no one can understand my work"
      Alone or rather with God- all-one they worked to uplift humanity,to save souls, guide them to the light. smile

      1. Jewels profile image84
        Jewelsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        Thank you Mohitmisra for your kind words.  I think my teacher has also quoted what Guru Nanak said "no one can understand my work."  How true.lol  Most spiritual teachings are difficult to decipher, I think because of our state of consciousness, our standpoint.  I know for a long period the more I learned the more I didn't understand.   All of a sudden it started to fall into place.  Still I have more and more to learn.  As for the Why question - we know that's futile


        Off topic..... but I wanted to share.

        My favorite piece is below and helped me through some terrible times in shedding the conditioning.  If you know the actual author I'd love you to share.  I believe it came from Autobiography of a Yogi but not sure who said it.

             **********
        "An honest introspection, the exquisitely painful approach to Wisdom, Self-scrutiny,
        relentless observance of one's thoughts, is a stark and shattering experience.

        It pulverises the stoutest ego. But true self-analysis mathematically operates to produce seers. The way of 'Self-expression', individual acknowledgments, results in egotists, sure of the right to their private interpretations of God and the Universe.

        Man can understand no eternal verity until he has freed himself from pretensions. The human mind, bared to a centuried slime, is teeming with the repulsive life of countless world-delusions.

        Struggles of the battlefield pale into insignificance here, when man first contends with inner enemies!"

             **********

        1. mohitmisra profile image60
          mohitmisraposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          My pleasure and beautiful lines once again.Yes its an inner battle.
          Conquer yourself- you conquer the universe.
          Change yourself and the world changes. smile

          Confusion is a blessing in disguise.It means you are questioning,searching,walking the path. smile
          You will come out a better person once the confusion subsides.Which is happening to you.
          The journey of a thousand miles starts with one step-Lao Tsu.

  30. docbenduke profile image53
    docbendukeposted 9 years ago

    Let us all love ourselves not to condern any religion.I wish you all well.

    Doc ben

  31. knolyourself profile image59
    knolyourselfposted 9 years ago

    A bird in the hand is better than two in a tree.

    1. profile image0
      sandra rinckposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      I get it, but how does that relate to orgasims???  smile

      Unless you are saying.....hand umm.... lol smile

  32. Make  Money profile image81
    Make Moneyposted 9 years ago

    Read back through some of the posts in this thread Sandra.

    1. profile image0
      sandra rinckposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      I think you should read back through some of the Bible,  actually why not the hole thing. 

      But one this is true about you.  You certainly do hate hate everyone besides Jesus.  Good on you!  You are a real Christain and you have gotten yourself a one way ticket to eternal life because you have forsaken your fellow man in pursuit of your self.

      Thank Jesus Christ almighty who has come to restore you and bring into your heart peace so that you shall be redeamed through Him, the Lord Jesus Christ oh and The holy Spirt and God. 

      Your a remarkable Christain.  I comend you on your behavoir in showing your loyalty to Jesus Christ and not us other dispicable humans who strive to preserve life here instead of destroy it.

      God bless you, may God have mercy on your soul so that threw Jesus Christ you may have ever lasting life and be forgiven for all your sins which you know and do not know. 

      Let the healing begin. hallaluja!

  33. knolyourself profile image59
    knolyourselfposted 9 years ago

    "You cannot look outside yourself to ever be divinity.  And so in Christianity it is encouraged to remain separate." Excellent point. Those who cannot be responsible for their own authority,
    have to use that which is outside themselves.

    1. profile image0
      sandra rinckposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      which is why there is Jesus?

      1. Jewels profile image84
        Jewelsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        Jesus was a man, a human like you and me.  According to Hindu teachings, for example, it takes many initiations to reach the level of Christ.  It's a transformational process, going from the state of physical human being to an enlightened sage. Jesus the man becomes Jesus Christ because he transformed.

        You could say Christianity is another way to become enlightened, as long as the interpretation of the Bible is such that you understand that enlightenment is the purpose.  Remaining separate will not get you very far along the spiritual path.

        1. profile image0
          sandra rinckposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          I don't disagree.  In fact I agree.  smile  People do the same to me; mention Satan or Lucifer or Judas even and they think you are playing the dark side. 

          I did the same as you,  I had to reach threw the darkside to find out what was really beautiful. 

          I think they are just too afraid to go there which IMO is why they never get there.  Too afraid.  It's a shame.  sad

          1. Lady Guinevere profile image60
            Lady Guinevereposted 9 years agoin reply to this
    2. Jewels profile image84
      Jewelsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Absolutely.

  34. knolyourself profile image59
    knolyourselfposted 9 years ago

    Inside yourself = spirituality. Outside other - Jesus = religion
    is what I guess.

  35. Lady Guinevere profile image60
    Lady Guinevereposted 9 years ago

    It is all about self-responsibility and not putting blame on Jesus, God, or Satan.
    Did any of you even think about the gods and other names that are in the bible as egyptian.  Moses was brought up in Egypt and then kicked out--excommunicated- and he got mad and made up some of the things to get back at Egypt for kicking him out.  He transgressed against one of his own commandments.  Some of the words and anmes that peple are using in this threead as Hindu and whatever are Egyptian.  I just thought to throw that out to you all.
    Jesus also said the all law is already written in the minds and hearts of men--he made no exceptions and I believe it is at birth that we all know the laws.  Therefore why should we keep repenting for something there is nothing to repent for.  This also covers those who believe we are sinful and evil in birth---that makes no sense to me at all.  God even said that everything he made is good-so what does that make Satan and the rest of us???

  36. Mark Knowles profile image61
    Mark Knowlesposted 9 years ago

    Jewels - Mike seems to be under the impression that if the pope waves his magic wand at Russia, all these things will go away big_smile

    I agree with you - what we need is a new value system and economic model. And I believe it is coming. Unfortunately, the current one is putting up a struggle, and will not go down without a fight.

    Those who support the status quo are trying desperately hard to prop up the old system. Just look at the US and UK bailouts for the banks.

    But eventually, there will not be enough money in the system to support the system - the war-mongering, you are not a good person if you do not buy a new car every two years and all the other countries are sucking our life blood so we need to defend against them here's a new television standard that will make your viewing experience better and by the way did you know that you need this new drug to make yourself feel better because of all the shit we put in your food and all the shit we shovel into your brain as soon as you are old enough to watch TV like god told us to  - system.

    Only then will it change.

    1. Lady Guinevere profile image60
      Lady Guinevereposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Exactly Mark!!!
      Seems like we all need to DETOX bfrom everything.
      All this stuff you talk about is coming!  It's the 2012 prophesy!  Call me weird or with Satan or whevere but it doesn't matter because it is already happening--just as it is said.  All finanial institutions and governements will fall and there will be something new on the horizon---a people actually for the people system.  It IS a hard change and hold on tight because we still have 4 more years to go!!!
      Get off the drugs they pump into you for one!

  37. Lady Guinevere profile image60
    Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago

    This forum post has been left alone for a while now.  I have been reading through my MSN Group that is going to be no more next month and have pulled some things off of it for referrence here.  It is a shame that I will lose all that wonderful information, but it is change so we must plug along.
    Some of the things mentioned on this forum are the same things that I have on my group.
    I would like to put forth some links that I have for people here.
    I have posted some of the links other than the ones that I am posting here on other forum topics. 
    http://ebionite.com/reincarnation.htm

    http://www.mts.net/~warreno/

    http://www.libchrist.com/bible/catholiccelibacy.html

    http://www.sullivan-county.com/identity/trinity.htm

    http://www.propheticrevelation.com/orig … pendix-A-2

    http://www.vinland.org/scamp/grove/kreich/index.html

    http://glondon.com/magic/magic-bible.html

    http://www.angelfire.com/on/wicca/Deities.html

  38. Lady Guinevere profile image60
    Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago

    All those Christians who think they are the only ones who know everything should read this hub:
    http://hubpages.com/hub/What-Are-Cults

    1. profile image0
      sandra rinckposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Hey LG, first how was Christmas?  Next, because I consider you a friend, I will just say it first; be careful that you don't become a spammer.  Posting this link in more than one place is consider just that. 

      hugs smile

      1. Lady Guinevere profile image60
        Lady Guinevereposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Thanks for the heads up.
        Christmas was discombootled.  Den's mom passed away on Memorial day and we didn't do things like we did when she was alive.  Nothing seemed the same.  We were also going to go visit Den's Great Aunt becasue she had cancer and see her for the last time, but we never got to because she passed Christmas morning.  Den's father is now the last Allen in his line.  He is very sad, of course.  The Christmas that my family has will be this weekend and that will be different too.  I's all jumbled up and still not sure how to feel or say or anything.  It's not a downer, just very different.  It sort of like feels like the rug has been pulled out from under me--at least--not sure about Den....probably the same with him.  It's too many changes at once, I think.
        So how was yours?

 
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