Mark 9: 41----what do you think Jesus means here?
- Brenda Durhamposted 13 years ago
0"For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward."
Taking the surrounding verses into account, please give your interpretation of the passage. And what is the "reward" He refers to?The person giving a drink of water to a disciple on the ground that he belongs to Jesus clearly illustrates the principle of verse 40--that whoever is not against the disciples is for them. This shows how wide the range of participation is in the mission Jesus is envisioning.
The offering of a cup of water to quench the thirst in the heat of the middle eastern sun is seen as an act of hospitality (hospitality is also the thought in verse 37). It is also an example of the humble service the disciples are encouraged to do in verse 35. It is a significant act when the drink is offered to a man because he is a disciple who belongs to Jesus.
This assumes the same frame of reference as in verse 37, that the one serving the disciple is like the disciple--they are both serving others. Also, what is done to the disciple is done to the one who sent him; Jesus. Jesus therefore sees that the cup of water is extended to himself, and that this act of kindness is actually evidence of faith and obedience. That is why Jesus promises that the one who shows he (or she) is “for us” by this visible action will not lose his or her reward. Such a person will have a place in the Kingdom of God with the disciples and with Jesus--those with whom the person has now identified himself or herself.
Also, the reference to “his reward” does not hold the meaning of something deserving or of merit. A cup of water given in service is not meant as meriting participation in the Kingdom. It is just to stress God’s awareness of all who share in the extension of Jesus’ work, and to emphasize that there are no distinctions between “trivial” and “important” tasks. Wherever there is faith and obedience in devotion to Jesus, this call brings God's notice and approval.Thanks Ms Dee and Woman and ecoggins; I'm still pondering this, but y'all have given much food for thought and some wise insight.
We all need good food for thought Brenda.
I love your insightful post Ms Dee.
WoC, thanks! I do have a lot of Bible commentaries at my disposal, so I cannot take full credit for all the insights. SOme are from Bible scholars.
Ms Dee, That's great. We appreciate you sharing.
Christian are confused because they are yet to comprehend.the name of Jesus...they boast about.the name' Jesus' when clearly that is not the name that the man attributed to himself.
He called himself by the name that was given to him by his Father, a name that no man knows except it be revealed to them by the Father....
This is the only name given unto a man that he might be saved...and all who bear this name are one with God and His Christ...
This name has been revealed to men in this era and they are the chosen one called unto salvation.
Whose name do you bear?....calling oneself Christian is not enough.The elephant in the room is all the other "christs" and their relationship with their god.
Christianity got across the line better than many others as it was prepared to lie cheat and rig the outcome better than the other contenders such as Apollonius Simon Magus and many others.
Christs were a dime a dozen and so were evangelists in the time of christs supposed entry in to the game of "lets brainwash the peasants and earn our keep that way." groups that sprung up at that time.
Some things remain the same.You have written the exact argument i use over and over again.....
Thumbs up...Completely Agreed.....
kess, we've been through this before. The Lord doesn't play head games like you suggest. If you really knew the "hidden" name or whatever it is you're trying to say that's different from the name Jesus, then you would follow His bidding to spread that Good News to all people in order for them to obtain salvation. The Bible is not something complicated; and He doesn't deny anyone who comes to Him with a willing heart.
Keep it simple like His word is. His offer is to all, even if few choose to accept it.(sigh)
kess,
Okay I'm gonna give the benefit of the doubt and ask you, though it will probably do no good this time either............
Would you tell me what name you mean?
God is the Great "I Am", that we know 'cause the Bible tells us.
He is also named "Jealous" and the Alpha and Omega, and a bunch of names according to His word the Bible.
Share this knowledge you claim to have.Since you strive after letters as in writings and in syllables as in speaking you continue to strive after the word of men and this alienate you from the Word and kingdom of God.....
The name belongs to those whom it belong and since you need to ask means it does not belong to you. Even if I were to tell you , you would deny it...fulfilling just as he said' he who deny me.before men him I will deny before the Father and His angels..
All these things must be so that in the end none will be without guilt....for in hearing they will not hear and in reading they will not understand instead they hardened their hearts.
The Lord Doesnt play Games and as such there is no Lord......These are all man's games.....God is just a Phantom of man's mind
Hi Brenda!
This reminds me somehow of Rahab who hide the spies (the people of God)-Joshua 6:17 And the city shall be devoted, even it and all that is therein, to the LORD; only Rahab the harlot shall live, she and all that are with her in the house, because she hid the messengers that we sent.
Mark 9:41-For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.
"Will not lose his reward" Rahab was a harlot- blatant sin against God- yet by her being obedient to God's voice/ command/ leading and hiding the spies- she was counted righteous- in right standing with God now no matter what sins she had committed.
I think that those who help God's people to spread the gospel of Jesus through food aide, shelter, water- whatever will also be saved just like Rahab. It for sure opens there heart for God to come in and do a work from the inside out- after all it is God that tells the unbelievers and believers alike to give or help - not satan- So those that help the people of God are obeying God to begin with even if they don't know it.
It makes me think that whoever helps the people of God-to do God's work- spread the Gospel of Jesus will receive a reward like Rahab who was a prostitute- which in the sense of spiritual prostitution and idolatry we all have sinned and fallen short and done this at one point or another.
James 2:25-Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Matthew 25:34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
Generally,the verse seems to mean that those who do not dedicate their lives and leave everything to proclaim Jesus and the good news of salvation through him should be open handed and willing to support those who do. We should be kind to, honor, and support those who serve the Lord and the cause of his Kingdom.
Thanks!
Anything else?
Is Jesus referring to other Christians besides the disciples, or non-believers, or both? In previous verses, the disciples said there were people casting out devils, etc., in Jesus's name but that they didn't follow them (the disciples). Jesus told them to let them be. Why?
The only verses that really connect to MK 9:41 are 38-41. MK 9:42 begins the transition into another topic.
To me it is those who believe in Christ and do charitable acts are not to be condemned because that are not in Christs "inner circle". Basically, if they are doing Christ's work, then they are true followers regardless of what the apostles opinions.
A reminder to give freely, also a reminder to the apostles to, essentially, mind their own business.
There is also a clear distinction her between the apostles and Christ, and maybe a bit of "I'll decide what is acceptable in my name".Melissa, I read through this thread and I looked up the verses in question. I have to say. Wow. That's a great interpretation. So profound. So insightful. And, dare I say deep? Yes. I dare.
Well done.
Just thought you should get a pat on the back. For obvious reasons.Melissa, the date tab on your comment indicates that you wrote this two years ago. Isn't God amazing that He would continue to use these words He gave to you after all this time. I was Googling for an answer to this subject and found your answer here ... right where and when I needed it. Well done, good and faithful servant!
Was there a pull-tab on the bottom of the cup? Is the reward a free super-size upgrade?
Hehe...No giving with the heart is the reward. Nothing like giving out of gratitude or love. If it is given with hidden agendas the reward of giving is lost.
From my understanding, Jesus can see the kindness demonstrated with actions that are real. It's a genuine loving act motivated by the love of Jesus.
Yes.
But it isn't clear whether the ones who were casting out devils in Jesus's name were actually followers of Christ. They would've sought to join His group if they had been...? Do you see it that way too? So what was their "reward" in that case?
He said because the disciples belonged to Him........so He was saying they represent Him, right?The one's casting out demons in Jesus' name cannot be--at the same time--those who are against him. In other words, Jesus is telling his disciples, the are *not* the enemy. Their reward is simply God's approval of their actions--actions that are serving God's plan against evil.
Ah, now that's what I was wondering about!
So, although the reward is approval of their good deeds, it isn't necessarily salvation.
I do know God can even take the actions of unbelievers and bring it around to show His power..
Jesus says the opposite in Matthew 12: 30, but the two scenarios are different.You are right, Brenda, the two situations are different. However, I think what is said in the Mat verse about those being 'with' him, is the same as here in Mark in the broader scheme of things--exclusive to his 12 disciples. Those in the Mark passage were by their actions showing they are 'with' him.
Okay.
What do you think of verse 26 and 27 in Matthew 12? Isn't 27 saying that devils cannot be cast out by any power except His?Okay, let's see... Yes, he is saying that demons cannot be case out by the demon ruler or the one in control of demons because that ruler (Beelzebul, i.e. Satan) would be working *against* himself. So, yes, that leaves his power being the one that casts them out and also shows his power source is not that of Beelzebul.
Okay. I'm thinking of verses also where it says people will say they've cast out devils in His name, but He will tell them He never knew them. I think that may mean they just SAY they've cast out devils, when in fact they haven't...
You're not alone in checking out scholars' notes. I've used the Blue Letter Bible commentaries before. But some of them aren't in-depth enough, and I don't take any scholars' interpretations as correct unless they match up with the Bible's overall intent. I like to hear and read commentaries by any Christian! I know a Pastor who uses a Bible with a running commentary by Jimmy Swaggart! Not to say he necessarily agrees with everything Swaggart or anyone else thinks, but it is good to check out what other Christians think.Oh, yes, definitely we must "check out" what any commentary says in light of other Scripture. I'm with you, Brenda
Yes.
All those Scriptures seem to be connected as they speak about casting out devils. Verse 15 in that chapter of Matthew warns us to beware of false prophets, and talks about the fruits of good and evil.
Hey, I'll catch ya later; sleepy. It's so good to be able to discuss things with y'all!Have a good rest, Brenda! In the meantime, I'll respond for you to catch this tomorrow. The occurence in Mat 7:22 has to do with the final day of judgment (referred to by 'on that day'). In the context of that day, these are the claims of people saying they did this and that making a plea that in their case they were on the Lord's side but, in fact, they led a life of 'lawlessness' or evil (from Ps 6:8). I take this to mean there is no real repentance.
how is casting out a devil working against himself? The devil is not destroyed. It is not told where to go, it can go back in or it can go into another person.
Why cannot the leader of the demons reassign his demons? Is there a rule?
There is more here than in the verse the OP wants to talk about.
maybe next timeActually, I think that's a very good point, brotheryochanon. I was wondering about it.
So, do you think "Satan" (false prophets) CAN "cast out Satan" (for lack of a better way to phrase it), but it's not a complete job because the demon returns to that "dry place" I believe the Bible says?We are to tell them to go back to from which they Came when we do It! But Satan Is in Heaven being Held By Michael behind the throne of God as of his order to go home. From Jesus. Jesus said get thee behind me Satan.
When GOD speaks All of Creation Listens even if they do not hear.
Listen/= Obey
Now this is his Spiritual GOD given Body his FLesh body if you will or himself in carnate. That Jesus GOD sent Home. his spirit still comunicates with his fallen angels here that remain. Here!
And they are doing his bidding well. Satan is Not here to cast out any yet. So no! he can't even cast those out who claim to be of his while is communicating in the spirit.
Now he can have one of his claim to do this, but if this be continued they would be none left when he gets Back.
he doesn't want to sacrifice all his pawns sort of speak. The dry place only means they have none any longer to be over no waters not one Human for they ( Humans) can't be in Heaven where they (the demons) or (Fallen Sons of GOD) were sent.
Humans would lose their flesh an no longer be Humans or lose their clothe as in the coat that God fashioned for Adam and EVE. A prefect coat that covereth with all inside and out sort of speak. Consider it your Birth Day Suit and Not some chunk of dead animal flesh that Satan would have you believe. Who among you would give their child a snake if they ask for a fish?
I Cast My pearls be fore all! For ye are not swine! DO you know not who you ARE?
For soon they will avail me no longer my pearls I must give them all always away. Seek ye the Lord Your GOD Repent and Be with out sin on Judgment Day.
Stay clean by faithfully repenting with every new treaspass, pray for Guidence and Pray with truth in your heart as to believe the best you can believe for GOD Knows your heart better then You your self. He WILL Never Leave You or any other!
If He did YOU would no Longer Be! Do you understand what a god is Let alone Who THE GOD IS! ? LEARN TODAY SEEK YOU THE TRUTH of your Salvation Do ITwith fear and trembling. DO Not walk away from your FATHER!
Don't do it! It would not be a safe bet any more.
God is in control Satan is already condemed and has already lost. If you do not understand. IT IS FINISH this is WHY you DO not Understand That it IS.
The Story makes this clear have you heard the story its told still today, but soon it will be hard pressed to hear of it. The Good BOOK is not a Legal Document do not read it as such and you shall do well to ask of YOUR FATHER when confused or in doubt.
HE will answer you though it will not be HIM directly as the Father until the LORDS Day!
For if He did You would be taken out from the GAME or the CORRECTION SEEK YE the LORD your GOD He is seeking YOU. Do Not be decieved Satan is only instructing you but he is seeking your hurt as he doesn't want to be the lone failure or the only one and it looks to me that he wont be.
Donnie/ Sinbad the Sailor Man
When we order them back from which they came they are taken out of the game sort of speak WHY? WHO made them? So a demon Is sent Home as well. But they still communicate with those still here. So if the Void is not filled them come Back in numbers or by seven as Jesus would teach.
Satan Is Not Leader of Anything! God has given him dominion over Us for this was his Job to do in the first place. he is an Cherubim of Light or instruction, teachings.As i do not subscribe to the satan, personalized entity theory at all, nor do i believe angels can ever fall, or act as demons, my answer is, NO. There is no casting out of demons going on at all. The sons of Sceva show that casting out demons was a jewish practice from before christ appeared, a fact we know about. A false belief adopted by the jews during the exile years. I do enjoy satan as a metaphor and yes i believe false teachers and prophets can be counted in this metaphor. If we look at how jesus handled all the casting outs, we can find they are all downplayed, if not ignored. I prefer to consider this usage by jesus as "speaking the language of the time" so they would understand better and quicker without giving them yet another thing to disbelieve.
In the dry place parable you refer to matthew 12:43ish. I have always considered that to refer to the man and not the spiritual entity. the man walks through dry places.. as we do when christian, life seems rather dry not being able to do what we used to do, and the man goes back to his lifestyle and becomes worse than he was before.And here I was under the impression you were Knowledgeable even I still make great mistakes. For in chapter 12 alone Satan the Enemy is very well seen, keep in Mind the Bible is Not presented as it was scribe, but rather presented as those who re-scribed it.
And they thought best the interruption there of. In the Traditional King James and many Bibles this is made known to the reader by their preamble or testimonies to these facts. Which should be in the front of very Bible worth reading.
A host of markings and symbols which show the correct Chapter outlines. There are words in Italics added for to try and make sense of a verse that they thought didn't make proper sense. do not use them or read them they are added, as well some are taken away by them as well.
We as studiers or students of any Book must learn the fruit of those who scribed and also of those who re-scribe as well as those who published and so on.
The work has been given for some of us believer to do.
There are no barren trees of knowledge they all bare fruit and it is by the fruit that you should mark the tree. SATAN is an entity a living breathing Body holding being. and GOD sent him Home.
The Story makes this very clear the document on the other hand would have you believe many different or divers versions/ a diversity of stories. Mark well long descriptions and works by men, myself included! Do not trust any with your own soul you alone are responsible for it.
The dry Place is Paradise for those who are classified as goats who are forward and hard headed with harden hearts and who sought not the truth. they are on the other side of the vale or gulf.
And right in the same proximity of father Abraham. God Is not in Paradise either, but in Heaven alone, for where ever the Father is In His full Glory THAT PLACE is HEAVEN. but His light it shines greater in Paradise then it does here in our darkened world our Earth.
GOD is not the AUTHOR of confusion His spirit is all about us He never Repents from His gift Given or takes Away rewards earned NEVER Satan on the other hand will always do so as well convince you that you have lost these given by GOD.
Remember Satan wishes to portray GOD in every sense of GOD's Being yet conceive in a lie the fruit bares ill taste Looks great. but bares ill taste. or doesn't sit well within. his fruit has some defect be it a subtle one only!
Parables are not for entertainment, but they were for instructions. The apostles make this clear by always asking of Jesus the meanings of these secretes that Jesus preached unto the multitudes. and then define or revealed the meanings of unto the chosen ones of GOD's Elect.
These Apostles are elders of Our church the beginnings of the true Bride of Christ's. We all hold to certain trains of thought but do not hold so tightly you make them your own.
Yes there are demons here and yes not many are cast out today they are laying low for there is not as many of them as there was a while ago!
Donnie/ Sinbad the Sailor ManYep, I mean Matthew 12: 43 specifically; thanks for the reference.
I see it as the opposite---it's the unclean spirit that walks through dry places. Verses 44 & 45 says (it) decides to return where it came out, and finding it empty and swept clean, brings seven other spirits more wicked than himself to dwell there, making the man's state even worse than before.
So that empty exorcised place (the man's soul) is in need of something to replace what was there, needs the Holy Spirit; else the exorcism isn't permanent.
And I don't believe that's just a parable. There are examples in the Bible where Jesus literally cast devils out of people.When Jesus confronted the Legion of spirits in the one Man they beg Him to let them be and Jesus allow them to stay These were cast out of the man into the heard of Swine by there own doing, and then the swine ran over the cliffs into the sea this is not a sea of water that they drowned in, but a sea of people.
When many still exist today in people for they were many Spirits that this one man was captured by.
These were not taken from the Correction, the Game or what ever you like once casted out the original spirit does not return for the casting out is from earth altogether, and from Her face. Which returns the spirit from which they came.
And ALL souls belong to God every last one. All Souls the spirits that fell are bound only to Earth and once they are cast out they are returned HOME unto He that created them.
And Yes you must replace the empty Home with the Holy Spirit which is Only One Spirit and the Only One that can be in Every one all at the same time is the HOLY GHOST or the Holy Spirit both are the same being GOD
It is no big deal this flesh whether captured or free they all Die It is YOUR SPIRIT that you wish to keep clean and God Knows your Heart better then you. For you are caused to be reborn into this flesh, but before you were spirit.
And again you will be spirit. But Some will not forever Be! Hence the fear in why you should tremble. For with out GOD or If you Lose GOD you DIE. Your immortal soul will be forgotten and you'll die.
It is Not GOD that you fear! It Is being absent from GOD that you Fear.
Why would any one fear True LOVE? They would not, but yet they know not LOVE for this is a world without True Love. Only a small version of IT.While there are many Bible passages that are figurative, I don't see where you can take the ones about Legion to be figurative! It clearly tells that the spirits went into the herd of swine, the swine ran over the cliff and (choked) drowned in the sea. It doesn't say where the evil spirits went after that, but there's no indication that they went into other people.
You're correct that it's being absent from God that one should fear. But even that isn't totally the whole story. The Bible tells us to fear God as well. Luke 12: 5 tells us to fear "him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell;..." So hell is not just separation from God; it is a literal punishment also.Brenda Durhamposted 28 hours ago in reply to this
While there are many Bible passages that are figurative, I don't see where you can take the ones about Legion to be figurative! It clearly tells that the spirits went into the herd of swine, the swine ran over the cliff and (choked) drowned in the sea. It doesn't say where the evil spirits went after that, but there's no indication that they went into other people.
You're correct that it's being absent from God that one should fear. But even that isn't totally the whole story. The Bible tells us to fear God as well. Luke 12: 5 tells us to fear "him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell;..." So hell is not just separation from God; it is a literal punishment also.
There was no Reply button here so I placed my reply here:
Who Is able to Kill your flesh is also able to imprison you here. You are in Hell or Heaven On this earth as to whom you follow now. But even so the Devil is an accuser and after he has caused your flesh to die he can cause your spirit to be imprisoned until Judgment Day!
Only God alone can cause your spirit and soul to Die. He does this simple by forgetting you. Poof your gone!
Sea and Waters are People's spirits, Flesh is earth you are made of the Dust of this earth you are the earth your spirit is the water within this dirt. However you look it. It this is the facts broken down unto the rudimentary simpleness of the matter at hand. Yes these "evil" spirits drown and choked. Why? They where dispersed amongst many waters they became individuals they we no longer a force of one, but became individuals. Choking out their power to succeed in a matter as a group.
Parables are for the Elect and this is their time to shine. I am looking for them to shine brighter and brighter every day forward from yesterday until the Lords day. We all shall have are part in Hell which again is only a separation for the truth of who is God. We all Shall be forced to chose to whom we shall follow and God has made it clear beyond a shadow of a doubt that to Not chose Him Puts you at risk of being separated from Him forever! Your time in Hell Is Now For After wards the Judgment and God will No Longer remember the Unfaithful then any Longer POOF your Gone forever and ever You can't exist with out God remembering You and He is a Loving GOD so will He remember your Brokenness No For all sins are forgiven ALL SINS IT is Finished over and done DEATH of a spirit and a soul is to not be remember by GOD NO Never will there be an eternal Damnation of GOD's Children It is Not in His Nature to DO So it is However in Satan 's Nature Do you Not Know Your Father? The time is At Hand Learn of Him TODAY take the good Leave the Bad the tares seeds are Planted amongst the Golden Wheat Seeds Truth and Lies are these SEEDS ask of the Father and He will send you the Comforter the truth in spirit being GOD' s Truth. There is No Fault with GOD None what so ever NONE! Amen Donnie/ Sinbad the Sailor ManI'll have to mull on this a while; it's kinda hard to follow your train of thought there.....but I love the discussion!
A short reply is this---the Bible says after death comes the Judgement. So....this life is not hell. Although it may sometimes seem like it might be.
One thing you've got me curious about, something I hadn't thought of before.....the diluting of the devils. I'm trying to remember if Jesus ever cast out just one single devil (evil spirit) from anyone. Or if they always attack in gangs....
Brenda Durhamposted 21 hours ago in reply to this
I'll have to mull on this a while; it's kinda hard to follow your train of thought there.....but I love the discussion!
A short reply is this---the Bible says after death comes the Judgment. So....this life is not hell. Although it may sometimes seem like it might be.
One thing you've got me curious about, something I hadn't thought of before.....the diluting of the devils. I'm trying to remember if Jesus ever cast out just one single devil (evil spirit) from anyone. Or if they always attack in gangs.... ///
Along the beginning of the story of Jesus as He gathers the Apostles He does this casting out of an unclean Spirit the King James will Say Let Us alone but the Us is depicted in two ways One it is in italics so it was added.
Two; leave this soul and I alone. God did not join them together so Jesus Has every right to separate them, the Human is a flesh body, a spirit, and a soul. The evil entity is spirit and soul only No Body of flesh!
This is the reasoning of the US for never are you alone never! But for all accounts the very first man healed was healed of an evil spirit singular were the legion despite Hollywood versions or reasonings are a Thousand evil spirits.
But the good book only states we are many which reside within this one. These do not have dominion over we humans unless it is given to them by God or by ourselves. In many forms they tempt we humans daily and hourly. So that they may congregate with each other through we humans.
They need physical bodies to do their evil outwardly once you are captured they work on your weaknesses to keep you subdued by influencing those around you and your self. They do this every so subtly it is hard to discern them from we humans and are own failings at times, unless there are many within. They whisper the things we know not to do.
But then and up doing these that whisper are the hardest to discern and the easiest to rid yourself of, but they are also the first to come again and again, even Paul had troubles with these at times.
We all have heard their whisperings and we all have given in to their requests. It is unavoidable here as long as we live in the flesh and not in the spirit, but we too have a sinful nature so we do yield to the whisperings of these spirits from time to time. They work on us daily minute by minute. But they don't stay with you as do these others. Who are stronger and have more authority then these.
Then they become brazen and bold for they can then control the abilities of the captured one. Kind of and much like that of the Star wars famed, The Force and the dark side of the force. Spirits are unable without a host and were many are, there is much ability to do.
But rarely do you see or hear of such a case for Men of Christ have been given the Authority over ALL of the enemies of Christ. All Humans great and small have been given this Authority as well, but we do not believe that we have it, so it is disregarded and we fail to cast them out of ourselves and others.
As the Apostles soon found out that there were necessary steps to be done with dealing with certain Spirits. Tis a very risky thing to do with unbelief and ignorances to the steps. For both the one who is possessed and the one doing the casting out! It is a battle royal with out Knowledge! and More so with out Belief!
Rewriting Ms. Dee's post to read as she intended.
Okay, let's see... Yes, he (Jesus) is saying that demons cannot be cast out by the demon ruler or the one in control of demons because that ruler (Beelzebul, i.e. Satan) would be working *against* himself. So, yes, that leaves his (Jesus') power being the one that casts them out and also shows his (Jesus') power source is not that of Beelzebul.
No isn't clear were they actually followers of Christ. The verse Mark 9:39 is stating, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name,that can lightly speak evil of me. Jesus told his disciples to forbid him not because the man was not against him. The person was casting out demons in Jesus name.
Basically in Our world there are four types of People.
1. Those who do not confess that Jesus has come and do not keep or do his words or works.
2. Those who do confess that Jesus has come and do not keep His words or do His works.
3. Those who do not confess that Jesus has come and Keep and Do His words and works.
4. Those who do Confess that Jesus Has Come and Both Keep His words and do His works
More then Likely it was the #3. Type as Jesus at this time was not yet Crucified, but still in His unharmed flesh. He had not yet paid the ransom or the price for our release for all of our sins. So they would not believe Jesus was the Christ until after wards. But even today people who do keep the commandments and do the works shall not lose their reward which is eternal life.
People are reserved unto Judgment they are In Paradise. God has sorted them and separated them by their own choices. Those who do not hear or believe are considered Luke warm And God spews them out of His Mouth as Vomit. Now taking inconsideration what I have said about the Bible and there being Both Truth and Non truth with in its text.
Here is a good example How do we discern this passage of God's Nature Would our loving God up chuck these who just do Know? Well Not in my opinion or the opinion of our Lord Jesus in this Verse of Luke.
But instead If they Have a reward Coming which is eternal Life Plus the doings of Their works or good deeds. For these do follow you into the new Heaven or the new Earth. They earn you your robe and crown and/or your position in the New Earth or the New Heaven
The #3 would mostly be upon earth those who did Gods works and Kept His words, but did not believe in Jesus as the Christ or the Son of God, but by default they did. Because they did as He commanded so they unknowingly Believed on Jesus.
God Keeps All the Good and casts away all the Bad. You may be able to fool your self But you can't Fool God. Hope this answers your Questions.
Donnie/ Sinbad the Sailor ManInteresting point about Jesus not having been crucified yet! Thanks.
The #3 would mostly be upon earth those who did Gods works and Kept His words, but did not believe in Jesus as the Christ or the Son of God, but by default they did. Because they did as He commanded so they unknowingly Believed on Jesus.
Since christianity is entirely jesus based as the Son of God, "we can do nothing except that God do it in us, first". There is no default. Salvation only comes through one way and that is through Christ on the cross. We can never dismiss what jesus did on the cross nor can we go around it. We must go through the cross and that means identifying with Christ.
Hi sister, Brenda!
I haven't read the whole forum yet, but I do want to post what God laid on my heart when I read the initial question. It's Gen 12:3 "And I will bless those who bless you, And the one who curses you I will curse..." Mark 9:41 seems to confirm this truth. This would also address the 'reward'...
If you belong to Christ and someone blesses you, even with a cup of water, because you are His, they are blessed by God. Likewise, if you bless another who is a child of God (and God knows who are His ~ we can't always know...), you are blessed by God.Hi!
Amen. I think so too. I'm just wondering what that blessing (reward) is. Is it temporary depending on the intent of the person's heart, or does it have eternal implications?Hi Brenda, What I gathered from heavenbound5511's posting is that he may believe Rahab was eternally justified by just her 'work' of protecting the spies. Let's say Rahab continued in prostitution throughout the remainder of her life. Does God's Word say that unrepentant fornicators will not inherit the kingdom of God? Or is she eternally justified by that one deed, no matter what? Rather, Rahab was spared (saved) from the death and destruction that came upon that city (reward/blessing) at the time she hid the spies.
When Nicodemus asked Jesus what it took to be saved, he was not told to give Jesus a cup of water. We must be careful not to give eternal meaning to "I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you", let alone "For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward." If an unbeliever blesses a believer, s/he too will receive a blessing (in this earthly life, but does not inherit eternal salvation). Likewise, if an unbeliever curses a believer, s/he too will be cursed (in this life and the next).
We are not justified by works alone; the Bible is clear on that. We are rewarded for the work that is accomplished by obedience to the leading of the Holy Spirit ~ by faith. "Faith without works is dead" (Jam 2:20, 26) goes right along with "faith working through love" (Gal 5:6), for if we don't have love that comes from God (agape), our works are worthless (1 Cor 13).There are only two choices to pick from Life eternal or Death. There is But One True reward the rest are but blessings and gifts and GOD gives them to all his children for He wishes are that None shall Perish and He loves them All!
For He Created Them ALL! Jesus was making this clear to the disciples.
And Jesus Had to do this Twice for the Disciples were not yet Apostles they were still Students and neither did they yet understand all that they needed to be Teachers as well as elders. There is Only One Reward that is Life eternal.
Once you Have this you then you are to earn your position in GOD's Heaven. You Can get a good start on that Position here and Now. Heaven Is Not One simple Place where we all lounge about forever and ever. There is a government there. And there is Much Work to be done. GOD never stops creating It Is What He does.
Here and Now in the flesh we can start Earning Our Robes and Crowns. Our Garments if you will. Works will not save you! For they are not rewards they are gifts and Blessings which are given for works and just because you have found favor in the eyes of Your Father.
You Must Claim your reward or you shall lose it! God does Not repent from Gifts!
And Blessings are something all in all different If you retain Favor you'll keep the Blessings. If you lose Favor. You will lose the Blessing. Tis Only One Reward!
It is Not clear to me if this passage is stating the proper terminology for this Word Reward? It may be either of the three, But I am more incline to believe it is a Blessing and then a Gift that leads to the reward.
The disciples are warn not to hinder those who are coming to their reward not once, but twice in Luke: 9 And Mark :9 The disciples were Just That Students still Learning.
They even argued to who was greatest among themselves. And Thought they were better then the rest, they were not fully Humbled Yet. They even wanted to Call down Fire from Heaven upon the children.
Peter James and John were the First to become aware of who Jesus truly IS! There was much learning yet to be done and they the 12 were no where near ready.
As were not the ones casting out in Jesus Name! They Just believed they could and they did. As a little Child knoweth Not that he can not until He is told that he can not!
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