Ultimately, Christianity is a personal thing before a personal God, not the church. Could it just be that human beings are screwed up and like any other organization on the face of this earth, the church has its fair share of screw balls? To not believe because of a few pharisees is foolish. If we were honest with ourselves, many don't believe or follow God because we like living without any rules or consequences. Sadly, we can ignore the rules and consequences (the ten commandments), but they won't ignore us. What do you think?
I think if you were actually honest with yourself, you wouldn't believe in invisible friends.
I don't have enough faith to be an atheist.
I don't have enough faith to be an agnostic either.
I honestly believe in God. You honestly don't believe in God. Fair enough.
Yes, I am honest with myself and you are not.
Really? You must be omniscient. You must be God. For only a God could say that there is no God or even judge my heart. Hence, the problem of man: they, like you, believe they are the center of the universe. You are truly a troubled man. You are sincere, but sincerely deceived.
What does that have to do with anything? That isn't even an argument. I could easily same the very same thing about you and the fact you must be omniscient and must be a god yourself that you could say there are no other gods than the one you have chosen to worship.
See how that works? Entirely irrelevant.
So, your only real argument is to insult me. Typical believer. Dishonest as the day is long.
Not to argue the rest of your post, but this statement is a little off kilter. You do realize that religion and believers reflect that argument, more than atheists or agnostics?
By your supposed connection to the creator, you have aligned yourself in such a way as to assume a place close to the center. The creator represents the center of the universe.
Most non believers understand they are a minute part of a vast universe. They see themselves as insignificant, in many ways. Believers, on the other hand, consider themselves so important that they have are well known at the center.
Unfortunately for some people they do not know how to believe in God without religion. Some think it goes hand in hand.
Good word. We do not need religion, but relationship.
You know, this always fascinates me. You have religion. It is obvious in your OP. Why do Christians deny it?
No, my OP focuses on relationship with God over the church.
You make a comment about people not wanting to follow the ten commandments. That is a part of your religion? If not, I'm confused as to why it was brought up.
Relationship with God naturally leads to a change in lifestyle (following a set of morals). It's not anything and everything goes. The same can be said when one gets married. There are changes. There is love and accountability.
I get that. But the changes you make are in line with what you read in scriptures, as recognized by the Christian faith. You follow the Bible of the Christian faith. It isn't as if you are making changes in line with the Quran. Correct?
I know this sounds a little mystical and other-worldly, but Christianity based on the Scriptures is somewhat supernatural. Resurrection,water turning into wine, demons being cast out, healings, and other incidences in the Bible give Christianity that supernatural flavor. When I read the Scriptures, I hear the heart of God. His Spirit wrapping around the ink and paper make it a supernatural experience. As I follow his voice through Scripture, it works out in my life. Jesus even encouraged everyone to obey his teachings to find out whether they were true or not. It is a step of faith. Following the Bible is not religion, but hearing the heart of God. It's his voice. It's part of the relationship building. Also, I need to look at all of Scripture on a topic, rather than one little verse out of context. This prevents one from error.I hope this helps.
Yes. It helps immensely. It sounds as if we are in agreement. You have what I call religion. You just call it by a different name.
I am sure it is comfortable for you to assume people don't believe on God because they are stupid (blame the church) or lazy (don't want to follow rules). But I think you should open you mind a little bit more and consider that their life journey just lead them to sincerely not believe in God--and that does not make them an inferior class of people.
Actually, I don't think people are lazy or stupid, just rebellious. We want to do our own thing. God represents relationship over religion, but also an absolute morality, which people don't like. I'm cool with personal choice. Everyone has that right. I'm not calling you inferior either. Why would my encouragement to seek God rather than church make you feel inferior? Be at peace. That's not my purpose.
The Church believes in Trinity; they don' believe in ONE- the Creator God.
I think the claim is that God is One but with 3 aspects, like humans with the ego, super ego and Id. Not that I believe any of it mind you, sounds more like a god with multiple personalities (something that is considered a mental illness amongst humans).
Jesus did not believe in Trinity; it was coined by the Church.
i don't believe in god simply because there is no such thing. it has nothing to do with any church, it's just i think therefore i know god is a myth.
I think, the ten commandments that refer to human interaction are, for the most part, observed by all. As to the ones that reference God; the church has done quite a bit to advance the cause of atheism and the step toward agnosticism.
You can't make ridiculous claims that are obvious lies and expect intelligent people to smile and nod. After a while, you simply get tired of pretending what the church claims is true.
I am agnostic. I have every desire to understand the nature of an entity, if it exists; but the one the Christian church and the Muslim faith have proposed is an obvious lie.
I encourage you to press your issues with God through prayer. I understand the struggles you have with the church, but don't let that get in the way of a personal relationship with God. However, there are many Christians that follow out of a good and sincere heart. They are the real deal.
I have no beef with christians as long as they keep their faith in perspective and follow the love your neighbor rule. When their faith breaks from that, then I voice an opinion.
As to prayer, I could sit around and talk to myself; I guess. But, the way I see it; if there is a God, he knows my mind and my heart. As things stand; the ball's in his court.
The Minstrel; Emile R; great conversation and I agree with everything you both just said.
A Troubled Man; some OLE same OLE.
It would depend which church you are referring to. Many protestant European churches have a problem, because many members of the clergy do not believe in God themselves. It is estimated that 25% of Anglican priests are atheists, and similar figures exist for other churches. If the clergy do not believe, why would they expect the laity to?
True. Why would an atheist become a minister? These people are truly conflicted individuals or maybe schizo?
Not at all. They become ministers to make a living, or perhaps for the feeling of power they will have over people (pretty much the same reason organized religion exists). They don't expect the laity to believe, so they work hard at their preaching to convince them to do so in spite of very good reasons not to.
This is what James wrote about religion.
Jas 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
According to Strong's religion is defined as:G2356
From a derivative of G2357; ceremonial observance: - religion, worshipping.
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