Whom we can and cannot offend

1. 44

   WaffleCheeseposted 11 years ago

   How come we enact laws because we want to be sensitive to some people?
   
   We can't have prayer in schools, We can't have the national anthem sung, we can't have 10 commandments in parks, we can't raise the flag, keep score in sports games, or anything else.
   
   
   
   Why are we only allowed to offend the religious and white, and not anyone else?

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   1. 72

      sunforgedposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Can you tell me more about the sports games/national anthem part?  Both are new news to me?
      
      Also don't see where white comes into play here?
      
      One thing about the "can't" and religious part that I would agree with is .. you "can't" spend taxpayer money to promote any specific religious message.
      
      Which includes displaying/creating/maintaining a religious message at a location at a public location like a courthouse or park space.
      
      Where is the offense in that? Im not offended by the display of the ten commandments but I would much rather see public funds used in more worthwhile ways.
      
      Is that offensive

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      1. 95

         wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Hah!  The last rodeo I attended, put on by the city, required us all to stand for the national anthem, but then we were subjected to a 10 minute sermon in the guise of prayer on how we need to raise our children as Christian.  Only then did we get a neat presentation of the anthem with a white horse carrying the flag around the darkened arena.
         
         Tell me again how govt. can't spend public money on or promote a particular religion?  Although the constitution doesn't prohibit the state from doing it...

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   2. 0

      Brenda Durhamposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      That's a good question.

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   3. 60

      Ron Montgomeryposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      White religious people secretly love being offended.  I makes them feel all warm and martyry inside.

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      1. 59

         MelissaBarrettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Ron, I've never loved anyone as much as I loved you for the microsecond right after I read that.
         
         Alas, it faded... but it was there and it was real...

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   4. 65

      Mikel G Robertsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Because in our attempt to be fair to minorities of every kind, we (white men) have given away all our rights in favor of those "less fortunate" than us.
      
      In effect we have given them permission to mistreat us and not feel bad about it.

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      1. 0

         Brenda Durhamposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         In effect, yes, to some extent.
         But that doesn't explain the offender's initial behavior.  From where does that come?  "Jealousy"? (actually, greed?).  Misplaced vengeance?

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         1. 65

            Mikel G Robertsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Hmmm I guess it comes down to human nature. Make something/someone else less and you feel better/greater???
            
            It may be all the reasons you list. I don't really know.

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   5. 0

      Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      You are welcome to pray in school, you simply can't force everyone to pray.  Why is this a problem? Are the religious incapable of independent action?
      
      Where, exactly, is it prohibited to sing the national anthem? Where is it prohibited to raise the American flag?
      
      The ten commandments are a religious document. Can you not adhere to a religious document if the government doesn't agree to post the commandments publicly?  Can the religious not pull out their Bibles and flip to that section when they need to determine if they are allowed to do something, in particular?
      
      I don't think there is a national law prohibting keeping score at sporting events. If parents in Little League agree not to have the score kept at games their kids play; how, exactly, is that a problem for you?
      
      And how in the world is any of this  solely a white problem?

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   6. 84

      psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      You can offend anyone you want, what you can't do is discriminate against them or exclude them from tax-payer funded activities based on their race or religion.
      
      For the same reason all kids are not made to read BF Skinner's "Beyond Freedom and Dignity" or to recite the Wiccan Rede every morning. Much as I would like it.
      
      As for the national anthem and sports scores, where do you live?--I hear both all the time. (Unless the kids are like 5 years old in which case the main focus is is on keeping them on the field and watching the ball and having fun, not winning.)

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2. 95

   wildernessposted 11 years ago

   Should you wish to require a prayer in school each day to Odin and his son Thor, I'm sure you would receive a lot of help from the Christian community; many powerful Christian groups have worked for years to promote prayer in our schools.
   
   You might have a little trouble praying to Allah as he has no son and that seems to be a big deal, but Odin does and should fit right in.  It might even help get our children into Asgard - surely a wondrous goal.

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   1. 63

      logic,commonsenseposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Ya think you're Thor, after last nite, I'm really Thor!

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3. 72

   sunforgedposted 11 years ago

   Sorry typing on my phone ... meant sport scores and didn't mean to type location twice.
   
   Wilderness, im sure religious interests make into public functions all the time. I was trying to say I was personally ok with that being a "can't"and don't care what
   religion/sect/philosophy that referred to.
   
   Why would someone be offended by that, I don't expect anyone to pay for the promotion of my personal belief structure.
   
   You want a plaque, pass the collection plate, buy a green space, commission an artist and post it on your private land that hopefully can be seen by the public.
   
   Or you can go the cheap route and make a cardboard sign and run around on main street calling everyone sinners like they do in my hometown.

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   1. 95

      wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Oh I understood that - it was just my (slightly sarcastic) way of saying that the laws of our nation don't always make their way into the more provincial, backwoods areas.
      
      Cardboard sign: I once had a fine Mormon citizen, watching as we lifted the steeple onto "his" newly remodeled church, comment that God would love that beautiful new steeple and that I shouldn't worry about not being saved yet; he was heathen once, too.  It was sooo offensive that I had to laugh, which seemed to offend him for some reason and nearly got me fired.
      
      It's all a part of putting up with the religious mind set, I guess.

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4. 72

   sunforgedposted 11 years ago

   Im white. I don't feel offended or lacking in rights.(well, specifically because of my skin tone)
   
   What memo did I miss? Is there an offended white man newsgroup I should be joining?

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   1. 60

      Topnewhottoysposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      WHAT! You're white????? Damn, there goes the neighborhood.
      
      Although I agree with you about not using public funds for objects of this topic, I don't agree with forbidding displays on public property as a blanket policy. Just as I don't agree with any kind of "Zero Tolerance" policy.
      
      The ogre of Political Correctness, and, our universally hereditary condition -- that of being human, combined with the ostracizing of common sense, have led us to where we are.
      
      These laws and prohibitions may be perfectly appropriate in a multicultural setting, but what about single-cultural settings like the Amish communities, or the small Christian townships in the Appalachians.  Hell, for that matter what about Utah?
      
      The point being -- it should be a community decision, not a Federal one. The Fed probably wouldn't try to pass a "no smiling at women under 30" law, but there have been many instances of community and township laws, (ok, so they're ordinances - same affect as laws on the community level), of that nature passed. If you want some good "shake your head" chuckles - just Google "silly laws"
      
      But.... when you surpass the bounds of community, then the restrictions the OP fussed about do, unfortunately, become necessary.
      
      Or at least that's the way I see it.
      
      GA

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      1. 76

         Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Don't need Google....use HP's search.
         
         http://drbj.hubpages.com/hub/53-Dumb--Laws
         
         http://drbj.hubpages.com/hub/Dumb-Laws-Part2
         
         http://kristleywd3.hubpages.com/hub/Stu … till-Exist
         
         http://carolinamuscle.hubpages.com/hub/ … d-stupidly
         
         http://kathrynvercillo.hubpages.com/hub … very-State
         
         And that's just a handful on HP.

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5. 72

   sunforgedposted 11 years ago

   Not a fan of blanket policies either.
   
   The scenarios you describe seem like legitimate exceptions to me.
   
   I just don't see how the "religious" would be offended that the public doesn't feel it necessary to participate or financially support their private land and varied customs.
   
   That's not an offense or a slight.

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6. 72

   sunforgedposted 11 years ago

   I still want to know about sports scores and national anthems. How was that relevant?
   
   I've seen the dumb laws, its a normal feature in "news of the weird"

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   1. 49

      wavegirl22posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      since when do you want to know about sports scores
      
      weird indeed

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   2. 95

      wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      All I can think of here is that keeping score in childrens sports is coming under more and more fire.  The game, sportmanship, having fun; all are more important that a score.  Lack of a score might also help control the insane parents in the grandstands.
      
      Mostly, though, it is because it means that some children must lose, and this is offensive and not to be tolerated.  A stupid concept as everyone will lose at times during their lives and it behooves to know how to lose, but a concept that is growing in popularity.

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   3. 44

      WaffleCheeseposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      National anthem banned because it is 'too violent':
      
      
      http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/sports/Ind … 94343.html
      
      
      We 'don't keep score' because sports is ONLY about fun:
      
      http://www.lakewood.org/comres/page.cfm?ID=594

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      1. 72

         sunforgedposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Thanks for taking the time to share that. But, now I have to suspect that you are completely off your rocker or very unobservant.
         
         National Anthem ... first paragraph of your link!!!!
         
         "Tiny Goshen College in Indiana has banned the "The Star Spangled Banner: at all sporting events because the Mennonite school's president considers the National Anthem's words to be too violent."
         
         Ok ... Goshen college ... "healing the world, peace by peace"
         
         http://www.goshen.edu/
         
         Mennonite - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mennonite
         
         A private christian college made a policy decision. How does that offend all of Christendom and the whites of the world ...
         
         make a decision are you an angry militant patriot who loves his national anthem that celebrates bombs and blood ..or a peaceful christian.
         
         Id rather have the mennonite neighbors, i think
         
         The Little League thing is a bit dumb ... i like competition, its healthy, and picking oneself up after defeat is a very necessary life skill.
         
         But it certainly isnt attacking your whiteness or christianess (Is that a word)
         
         Care to explain a bit ( turn down the Deliverance theme, so you can compose your words more carefully)
         
         
         dddllele lel elel ele lelel ele eleeeellelelle

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7. 60

   SpanStarposted 11 years ago

   America was not founded by policitianers it was people of religious believe that settled in America.
   
   Overall, religion was an important aspect in the colonization of America.  It became a dominant part of the lives of the colonists and continued to grow over the years.  Events such as the Salem Witchcraft Trials of the 1690's and the Great Awakening of the 1730's only increased the influence of religion in America.  America had become a refuge for those who wanted religious freedom and became a home to the many people that had the chance to improve their lives. 
    
   
   http://www.uncp.edu/home/canada/work/al … ligion.htm
   
   No one should be offened or have to endure being offened but before we jump up on our high horse as if we're better then the rest we need to understand that we've been pretty good at offening others just ask the American Indians about being offened.  Allowing the KKK to run wild in America did plenty of offending.
   
   We can make America a better place if we make an effort to come together rather then making it about "me and them" at least that's my position.

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8. 87

   Ms Deeposted 11 years ago

   WaffleCheese, I wrote some hubs about this. Maybe you would find some of them and the comments there of interest: Court Rules Silent Prayer is Unconstitutional, Congressional Investigation to Remove Religious Expressions, First Amendment for Protection from Government.

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   1. 0

      Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Forcing everyone to pray silently is one thing. Taking a moment for yourself in prayer is something else altogether. I wish the religious could understand that freedom of conscience works best when people can actually have the intestinal fortitude to go their own way.

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      1. 87

         Ms Deeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Hmm, I'd never thought of it as "forcing" but giving those who want it an opportunity to silently pray. I fail to see how that is forcing--how can we force people to pray silently?

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         1. 0

            Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            I admit, I mispoke; but it might have been a Freudian slip. I don't approve of forcing everyone to bow their head in prayer and I think that calling for a moment of silent prayer is just as uncomfortable for those who don't pray.
            
            I am not against prayer, but I am adamantly for seperation of religion from our public schools and our government. I simply don't understand how difficult it is for someone to take a moment, alone, and pray; if they so choose or feel the need. Sometimes I feel as if the religious who argue for prayer in schools think their kids can't follow their own conscience and stand up for what they believe in.
            
            Wasn't it Daniel that closed the doors and prayed in seclusion every day? Public displays of piety come off to be more for show than humbly religious and we don't need shows of religion forced by those in authority.

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9. 44

   WaffleCheeseposted 11 years ago

   Obviously Christians aren't perfect. That's a claim I've had for forever. 
   
   Perhaps I should have put in another demographic that we cannot offend: The Patriotic.
   
   White, Christian, and the Patriotic all offend, as do many others.
   
   It's a huge web of 'I'm-offended-so-please-get-rid-of-your-stuff-that-makes-me-uncomfortable.'
   
   I just don't understand why it is okay to offend the majorities, but not the minorities.

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   1. 59

      MelissaBarrettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I AM the Majority (according to you)
      
      I am not offended by NOT having prayer in school.  I am not offended by no scoring in little league games.  I am not offended by not having the commandments in a park.
      
      Stop speaking for the Majority.  Because obviously, the Majority is not completely in agreement with you.  So in effect, you are possibly in the minority of the majority in your beliefs.
      
      SO, it is quite possible that these decisions are only offending a minority... Which should make you happy.

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   2. 60

      SpanStarposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Like I mentioned earilier it really isn't ok to offended anyone but starting out the minorities have been offended enough that's why we're in this position we are today.  Second point for the most part minorities can't do much to the majority to impact their lives.
      
      Next I would like to say for the attitudes that freedom means we have little responsibilities for our actions such as Free Speech which the majority allows then people are going to exercise that freedom and so now people say any darn thing that comes out of their mouth.  Majority says you don't have to enstill moral values in public schools we guess what people are leaving school in to society with little or no moral values and we have the majority to thank for that since the minority can do little to stop it.

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   3. 72

      sunforgedposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Pretty please elaborate on how you take offense to the policy decision of that christian college.
      
      Do you think they are silly for not wanting to sing a war song? Any details would be awesome, as I am totally mystified at the moment!

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      1. 84

         psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Because they are part of a... Christian minority?  : /

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10. 72

    sunforgedposted 11 years ago

    Every miserable fool who has nothing at all of which he can be proud, adopts, as a last resource, pride in the nation to which he belongs; he is ready and glad to defend all its faults and follies tooth and nail, thus reimbursing himself for his own inferiority. – Arthur Schopenhauer
    
    (I think race and nation could be used interchangeably here)
    
    Truly, if the skin or rock you were born in or on is all you got ... maybe a little ridicule is in order to spur you to be prideful of more valid things?
    
    
    To be patriotic, hate all nations but you own; to be religious, all sects but your own; to be moral, all pretenses but your own. – Lionel Strachey
    
    When a dog barks at the moon, then it is religion; but when he barks at strangers, it is patriotism! – David Starr Jordan
    
    im outta here, I thought you were referencing some amazing breaking news in your OP .. but it was all just cheesy waffling
    
    was this some sort of performance piece intended to show off the silliness of those who are offended by such things?
    
    
    

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11. 61

    Druid Dudeposted 11 years ago

    Actually, unless you consider belief in a God as being somehow a christian monopoly, the latest national poll claims that MOST Americans harbor some belief in God. The problem is, is that the will of the people is circumvented by the few who feel offended by someone else's belief system, and so, exercise their constitutional right, but I feel that christians are unusually targeted more than others. They have co-existed with the Judaic faith for awhile. Minorahs and Christmas trees co-existing. It speaks to our conscience indeed, when a nation with the tolerant ideal needs to mette out intolerance just so a few can feel comfortable. Why not just think yourself superior to anyone who harbors fantastical beliefs, smile knowingly and move on. Your focus belies a secret you aren't even willing to admit to yourself.

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