When is it permissible to pray on public property?
With all the law suits and court findings, it is sometimes difficult to determine the appropriate time to personally pray on public property. So do you think it is ok to Thank the Lord for making the lights all green when traveling through a large city. Or maybe Thanking Jesus for keeping you safe when a drunk driver slams into a government building instead of your auto. Can you describe your permissible times?
It is permissible to pray on public property at any time I choose. My prayers don't have to spoken out loud for others to hear, I can do that in my own space and privacy, if I choose. No one can stop me from completing a silent prayer at any given moment, anyplace.
Whatever you want to do in your car is fine by me. Drunk driver didn't hit you? I say great! too many deaths from drunk drivers. All green lights on the way to work? I wouldn't say that's an act of god though. I used to determine when I would hit green lights on the way to school by leaving at a certain time. I don't have a problem with anyone praying in public because it's PUBLIC property. I only have a problem when someone tries to force prayers on others. Acting like you're being persecuted for being religious is a little annoying but I wouldn't walk up and say " Hey don't do that". I respect peoples beliefs until they force them on others or when they try to act like a victim.
Like so many atheist and homosexuals do. Disgusting isn't it?
atheists and homosexuals are the ones discriminated against more in our society JThomp and we are all entitled to our opinions, beliefs and human rights - not just the ones you deem "moral" enough for your liking.
I'm entitled to my opinion, and I find it disgusting how you whine.
I'm whining by stating my opinion but you are "entitled" to yours - that says a whole lot doesn't it?
Yes it certainly does about atheist. Are you crusading for atheist and homosexuals? I am for my God. I will defend him against your kind anytime I can.
When individuals seek to proclaim immoral actions as moral, moral individuals must protest. The moral world is looming on the edge of destruction due to silence of the moral individual. Restoring moral society requires positive action not reaction.
It is permisible to pray anywhere anytime I choose as long as my prayer doesn't interrupt or interfere other people's business, which mostly has to be silent. I think it's ok to thank the Lord for making the lights all green when traveling through a large city or for anything you feel good about, you can also thank Jesus for keeping you safe. Feeling grateful and saying thanks in your heart to our Lord and/or Jesus for something good in your life is a good practice of prayer. Maybe nobody knows you are praying except our creator and you yourself, how can anybody stop you?
Just pray wherever and whenever you think you should. Don't worry about anything else that our Lord will take care of.
Pray whenever you want to. It is your mind, your time and your choice. What are they going to do, put you in jail, take your birthday away, or kill you? I don't think so! Just pray.
You can pray on public property whenever you want. Most lawsuits in regards to this issue come from city counsels or other government bodies having organized prayers to begin or close meetings. The government, as per the establishment clause, isn't allowed to show preference to religion and so institutionally supported prayer, or religious monuments, are generally seen as infringements upon the rights of others.
Just as it is your right to pray and hold whatever religion you choose it is everyone's right to do the same, to believe in any gods or none at all and follow any religion or none at all. Seeing government or elected officials or school faculty leading a guided prayer can be seen as a violation of the establishment clause. Imagine for a moment that you are a Christian at a city counsel, or school board meeting where they lead a Muslim prayer and bow to Mecca. This might be fine for the members who are Muslims, it might even be fine for you as a Christian to be tolerant of their beliefs, but such meetings are not a place for religion because of the 1st Amendment.
So the issue of prayer in public is not about individual rights, your freedom of speech and freedom of thought are not in danger here. Its an issue about the establishment clause and government endorsement of religion.
It appears that you have removed the rights of the individual when they are a Council Member, School Official, City Administrator, or other elected official. So, it appears your position is that individuals can be restricted? Is it a double standard?
No, their rights as an individual are still intact. As a member of that body you can still pray. It is organized prayer at these meetings that is a violation of the first amendment. The government cannot endorse religion.
taburkett, the rights of an individual, when acting in a public capacity and on behalf of a government entity do change when they are wearing that hat.
Well Jesus never sanctioned public organised prayer. In fact he said those who prayed loudly on street corners already had their reward. Prayer is between you and the Father, which is why Jesus said to do it in private, in your 'closet'. Praying in private of course extends to silently praying whilst going about your daily business in public.
So it seems to me that the desire to pray in public out loud on public property, or 'corporate' prayer as Churches like to call it is a manmade religious activity and far removed from the Christian faith that Jesus left behind.
You missed the context of that passage RE the Pharisees praying loudly on the street corners. The point had nothing to do with their praying publicly, but about their hypocrisy. Praying in public, in & of itself, doesn't equal hypocrisy.
What and you don't think that 50% of Church public prayer isn't about ego, preaching, and making the praying person feel good about themselves?
DH...... THE REAL TRUTH TO BE KNOWN IS THAT PEOPLE DO NOT PRAY ENOUGH.
cherihut-Jesus provided the rule in Matthew 6 - we are to pray in private, not in public. Therefore, public prayer should be viewed as thanksgiving to the Lord. TimTebow 4 example. Those who do not believe in God want to remove all thanksgiving.
JT how do you know whether or not people are 'praying enough'? What are you expecting to change?
Look at the shape this country is in DH. If Christians would pray and take a stand, God may start blessing this nation again.
Really JT. When God said if my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray...., who was he talking about? Israel. This is not something Christians can name and claim.
Given that prayer is usually (most often) internal or in private (eg in your car etc) there really isn't anywhere that you can't pray.
Forcing others to pray with you, praying loudly in a place not designed for prayer - such as a church, religious monument, the Wailing Wall, etc - (eg these are designed for prayer), that is where the problem comes in.
Praying over someone - particularly someone who did not request such, does not require such, or for your own personal reasons such as praying loudly over a homosexual or muslim person because you fear for their souls etc is just rude. If you must pray about these things, for these people - quietly is better, and I'm sure Jesus and God will still hear, and you'll still feel better.
Unless you were being offensive (you being anyone) by praying for me when I did not request it, praying loudly in a place where it is not appropriate, or forcing others to join you against their will - I would not stop you if you were obviously in quiet prayer. That is between you and your God.
Jesus taught that we should forgive the sins of others.
James 5:2 "Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins."
Who shall provide a moral path?
Forgive - yes, pray over without permission - no.
jlpark ... permission from who? You act as if someone is going to single you out in public and start praying for you. This is not the way it works. If you are being prayed for, you will never even know.
JThomp - then that is fine. Did you read the answer at all? I'm quite happy for someone to pray quietly, for me or anyone. But not loudly, publicly for me or anyone, unless they have specifically asked to be prayed for.Will I stop a quiet prayer? No
You can always pray wherever and whenever you feel like praying. You can do it silently. In that way you cannot distract anyone near you. Anyway God can hear you even with just whisper word from within your heart. The Bible says, “And your Father who sees in secret will reward you. “
Anytime I choose o pray. I do not care where it is, I will pray. For instance, in restaurants I will say grace. The bottom line is I will pray anywhere, anytime I feel the need to do so.
and no one is stopping you so why the attack on other posts about other groups of people? Victimization when you are in the majority is rather silly.
JThomp42-what you call prayer is in fact a Thanksgiving for the benefits provided by the Lord. Public prayer by the individual is outlined in Matthew Chapter 6.
Majority?? Laughable! The white, religious man in this country is now the minority due to all of your "silly" political correctness. Why do you care. Are you an atheist and a homosexual?
Permissible? Neither government nor the public gives you permission for the exercise of your rights. That's why they're called "rights." You practice them at your own discretion.
We don't have rights, we have temporary privileges. We don't have rights when they can be taken away. Do a search for Japanese Americans 1942.
Nicholas, simple because someone's right were infringed upon, does not mean they don't have rights...we just need to fight for them and against the tyranny of a government that doesn't protect them.
Matthew 6 - New International Version (NIV)
Giving to the Needy
6 “Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
2 “So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
9 “This, then, is how you should pray:
“‘Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name,
10 your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us today our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.
14 For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
15 But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
Apparently congress thinks it permissible because they pray before each session.
It does not seem that the rest of us have permission, however.I do pray anywhere and all the time, without anyone's permission.
i think praying is just a way of growing in relationship with God. time and place doesnt even matter, since there is no need to make a show of it. we can just simply speak to God in our minds. I would also prefer to pray for anyone in an accident rather than thank God for it not being me.
Unless you are talking about kneeling in a walking path or blocking access there aren't any laws restricting public prayer.
You might want to keep your voice down or pray silently if the place might be disturbed.
Praying, or muttering rapidly while making all kinds of funky hand gestures and crouching over?
I really don't bother about when or where to pray. I simply pray: public building or not, restaurant, bakery, garden, church, school, classroom, etc. I just pray to my God when my spirit beckons.
Thanking Jesus for all the lights turning green? I think when we start thanking Christ for all kinds of crazy things, we're making our prayer life superficial. Maybe the question of where we are praying is not as important as what we are praying. You should be able to pray anywhere you like, and you can, but that doesn't mean it has to be a showy display, which Christ preaches against and says that there is more reward for someone who prays in private to God. The only way they could completely take prayer from you is if they could actually read your mind and penalize you from there... which is currently impossible.
Not sure what the point of this question is? Just to provoke? You can express yourself, within limits on public property as that is a right under the constitution – called free speech (fyi . . . running around naked might be one of those limits where you have crossed the line). This means you can pray, or argue against prayer. You can even pray in a group. You can pray to yourself or pray out-loud. You can also protest, preach, chant, sing, demonstrate, etc. In Chicago, in Daley Plaza (the defacto town square) there is often a table set up by some religious organization. They are there every day (at least I have seen them on a number of occasions) and I often see people praying. So there is a good example of prayer on public property. But here is what cannot happen . . . a government official cannot come out and demand that everyone pray. That is where the line is drawn (organized and required prayer by a government entity). So if you want to pray, by all means pray and if you don’t want to, then that is ok as well.
since you are not sure of the point, then you cannot understand that there should be no "within limits".Free speech is free speech - regardless of public property or not.No one is demanding that anyone pray - but they demand prayer restriction.
You can pray anywhere you want to. You don't have to let others know you are praying to God, like an obvious show of it. You can be walking along any street anywhere and talk to God.
Not every country has the religious freedoms of others. I thank God that I have this liberty and pray for others who don't. But, really...I can talk to God at any time, because I don't always pray out loud or with my eyes closed. I carry Jesus with me in my heart. No one can ever take that away.
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