sharia for idiots ;;; honor killing,,

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   darknight444posted 13 years ago

   Honor killing in sharia
   
   Well just e start i have found e topic in another forum aboute where his maker accuse islam with e very terrible crimes and say it s from islam i debate him e lot and after ;  imagine 11 reply ;he tell me that he know all along that the forme of honor killing that he speak aboute is parcticed in brazil and india , non islamique countrys
   
   I nearlly hit my head in the wall after that if he know all e long why he didnt just accuse muslims but all islam with e terrible crimes
   Soo thise is e lesson aboute honor killing in islam , for idiots,
   1 definition : ther is e honor killing in islam but it s indentical to self defence in owre laws now
   
   1.    In our laws it s if you killed an agressor  defending  youre life that is e self defence and that is honor kill in sharia laws
   2.    In our laws it s if you killed an agressor  defending  youre possesion and mony that is e self defence and that is honor kill in sharia laws
   3.    In our laws it s if you killed an agressor  defending  youre familly  that is e self defence and that is honor kill in sharia laws
   4.    In our laws it s if you killed an agressor  defending  youre wemen in youre  familly from sexual melastaion  that is e self defence and that is honor kill in sharia laws
   
   •    Thise is what honor killing in islam
   
   •    it s described at honor killing because long time from islam untill e short times  ther was noo securiy there was criminals who cut the roads and thy done e terrible crimes like stealing and rape the travlers and it s an honor to stand in ther faces and to defende evry think preciouse to you
   soo again research what society and the rating that thise crimes happens before you accuse islam with such e crimes

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      A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      

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      Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Honor Killing also is if your daughter bring shame to the father and the family because not dressed properly in public if with a man, the father murders the daughter. This is Honor Killing under Sharia
      Law for Muslim.

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         kirstenblogposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         This exact story happens here in the UK in the muslim community and seems to wind up in the news. At the schools we are trained to watch out for unusual things that could indicate these sorts of religious acts which are totally against the law of the land. The other thing we are trained to watch out for is girls being taken out of the country for female circumcision, or forced marriage. It is a difficult thing to try to watch out for really, but I think its a good thing that school staff are even given the idea to watch out for any possible signs.
         
         It is plain that the muslim community in the UK can and does practice religious acts like honour killing even tho it is directly against the law of the land, hard to imagine a religion that allows this being a peaceful one.

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            Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            You are right. Honor killing and Female circumcision are both against the laws of the land, but obviously muslims think themselves above the laws of the land. Think about it any people or religion that thinks that Almighty God would approve someone attaching explosives to themselves to kill themselves and other, or that it is God ordained to steal and terrorize 4 airliners filled with innocent people and then deliberately crash the planes into buildings in the name of their God is sick and so is their so called religion.

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               A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               But, we do think about it. And, when we do think about it, we find that when we delve into the historic past of religions, those very same types of atrocities rear their ugly heads to remind us of the insane power they wielded over it's followers. Atrocities like witch burnings, Inquisitions, Crusades, etc.

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                  Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  A Troubled Man: I never thought I would see the day when you and I would agree on anything, yet here we are agreeing. Hip Hip Hooray! This made my day.

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            darknight444posted 13 years agoin reply to this

            lies i m an arabe an i never saw e man force his daughter to get married
            it s youre lies and you say they kill them lies lies

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               kirstenblogposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Call it lies all you want, just cause you haven't seen it doesn't mean your eyes are open, or that you are looking beyond your self. Fact is, I have seen with my own eyes young women who have been rescued from marriages they were forced into talk about how betrayed they were when their family lied to them to get them out of the country, and their passports. Once out of the country and without their passport they had no option but to marry. One woman spoke out about how she was put in a mental hospital after her forced marriage because she resisted it. She was lucky and had western friends who noticed her 'vacation' never ended, and she never returned to school. Those friends got the UK authorities involved and she was rescued and now speaks out against this practice. Call it a lie all you want but that just exposes your real nature and trustworthiness.

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                  kirstenblogposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree … m.religion
                  
                  A perfect example of this supposed lie

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   hassamposted 13 years ago

   Honor killing and such related atrocities are a result of a cultural influence and many a times criminal acts, which come out of frustration are often tagged with the same label. It is far away of doing anything with religion and Islam.

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      A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      If it's the culture, why doesn't Islam deal with it specifically and forbid such acts which have been part of the culture since 1200BC? 
      
      Certainly, we can see that the Arab culture is encapsulated within Islam and that Muslim women are still considered property as they have been for centuries.

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         hassamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Islam stopped such atrocities in the first place, right when girls were buried alive as soon they were born, it is Islam that told the then Arabs to stop this brutalism!
         
         Yes, it is true that this culture still exists in the Arab countries, but it shouldn't be labelled with Islam. Such, type of things are also seen in other parts of Asia, specially of the sub-continent. Here the people in the rural areas don't know how to spell their names but are so strict in following their culture that they would go so far as killing each other.
         
         In such places, people also follow religion but their own version which is heavily influenced by their culture.  It is sad that even the educated ones, do similar acts, which shouldn't be labelled as religious violence, in fact it should be considered a criminal act.

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            A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            First of all, Muslims know that Islam is used for the guidance and counsel for ALL aspects of their lives and not just some. Your own words state that "Islam stopped such atrocities" hence it was somehow incorporated into Islam specifically to deal with them, yes?
            
            Yet, you go on to say that the culture still exists and that people will follow "their own version" of Islam, continuing to commit those cultural atrocities.
            
            Wouldn't that conclude that Islam DID NOT stop such atrocities?

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               hassamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Islam is a form of law and a means of guidance for Muslims in general. You are right about that, but what I am trying to say is that not everybody follows rules of Islam or any law in general due to prejudices or personal human deviation by the influence of the culture he/she lives in. That is the reason such people are not willing to accept this Islamic law of protecting human life.
               
               Even if these people didn't follow Islam they would still break the state law by doing this due to cultural prejudices, like in most tribal areas. So how can you say that only if some one doing this is doing this due to religion? Most Muslims are simply born in Muslims families and are more under cultural influences than religious teachings as they don't understand their religion properly.
               
               I don't know what you are trying to say about such thing incorporated in Islam. But what is incorporated in Islam is to protect life of every person be it men or women.
               
               Women are killed, raped and brutalized in every society not because of religion but due to criminal acts. So you can't blame Islam for that just because people are Arabs or of Muslim origin. Because Islam doesn't teach such torturism.
               
               As an example, just because someone ran over a traffic signal as a follower of the state law, doesn't mean that the state law is wrong, it is the person who is wrong. The law demands the person to follow the rules, but if he breaks it, he doesn't stop being a citizen of that country, he is just fined!

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                  Disappearingheadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Are you suggesting that if the Islamic World wholehearted embraced Sharia law and implemented it 100%, that all terrorism, honour killings, brutality, and the imposition of restrictions to women's freedoms, would all cease?

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                     hassamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Well, I didn't say that! It is human nature to deviate from any type of law, so no law can certainly eliminate any type of criminal acts. But if imposed it can certainly reduce the %.
                     
                     I really don't know why people are so afraid of  the world 'Sharia Law'. Trust me it is not what the media portrays and it is not Taliban like!

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                        wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Would that not depend on who is enforcing it?  If the Taliban (or like minded idiots) are the common enforcers instead of rare ones it would make the media portrayal look like a tea party.

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                           hassamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           Yes, it's true such fanatics (men in particular) often use religion as a disguise to satisfy their personal egos. But media portrayal is as if the whole ideology of Islam is wrong. Such extremism exists in other religions as well, people are very well aware of that. But you wouldn't go on and label the whole group of followers following a wrong ideology.

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                              wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              I'm not sure I can agree with the ego thing.  When a man is willing to kill himself in God's name it is a little more than ego.
                              
                              It is an actual belief in the rewards to be gained.  It is a complete disregard for other people.  While it may be an ego thing for the top leaders it is far more than than to the average al quaeda member wishing only to murder someone for God.
                              
                              And their numbers are not small.  The percentage of the insanity is small, but it only takes a few to cause immense destruction and those total numbers are not just a few.

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                                 hassamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 I am talking about honor killing by men, not the self proclaimed jihad being done by brain washed individuals. There is definitely an element of ego in such honor killings.
                                 
                                 As for acts by Al Qaeda and other terrorist organizations, we suffer such attacks in our country quite often in mosques and other religious places, by young people who are brain washed by such so called jihadists. They aren't going to get any rewards by suicide bombing us and that I am saying as per pure Islamic teachings.
                                 
                                 Jihad is also a misunderstood concept, and an exploited one too, that is why beliefs of people mostly from rural and tribal areas are exploited, who are then rallied towards cities to kill innocent people. They don't even know what wrong they are up to. Often we read stories of caught suicide bombers, in local newspapers to find out they are in their own fantasy world, far away from Islam/
                                 
                                 As for their leaders, you wont believe that they do this not merely because of religious gains.

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                  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  It's more about interpretation of Islam (+ Hadiths + Shariah) and the acceptance of such interpretations to justify the cultural influences and deviations. Like so many other religions, Islam has a variety of interpretations, factions and sects that don't agree with each other and as a result we see one Muslim's actions justified by their interpretation.
                  
                  Your interpretation may be different and you will disagree and say they are not following Islam.
                  
                  
                  
                  Allow me to use your own words to answer that question...
                  
                  "Most Muslims are simply born in Muslims families and are more under cultural influences than religious teachings as they don't understand their religion properly."
                  
                  
                  
                  As long as they are Muslims... and men.
                  
                  
                  
                  Perhaps, but Islam teaches that women are considered property and second class citizens, like the other Abrahamic religions based on misogyny and bronze age thinking. The torturing of women simply hasn't changed throughout the ages regardless of the fact it is now considered a criminal act.
                  
                  
                  
                  Don't you think it a little preposterous to compare Islam, a complete guide to ones life, to a simple, elementary traffic violation?

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                     hassamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Unjust killing of any person, be it Muslim, non-Muslim, men or women, is prohibited in any sect of Islam, if you are saying this due to the general misconception than it is your ignorance. Like I said, such things were stopped by Islam in the first place, so any sect, or claims that it is a sect by saying honor killing is justified in Islam, is ignorant about teaching of Islam altogether.
                     
                     Again that is a misconception that women are not free in Islam. They have right some times greater than men! Yes, torturing of any human is a criminal act, so is it in Islam.
                     
                     I just gave an example to tell you how law works, Islam is also a law, but made of different principles.

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                        darknight444posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        hey ther my brother dont waiste you time i poste thise poste so thy might read it and understand what is honor killing in islam
                        
                        but there is some ppl what ever you told them thy argue and debate you re just waisting youre time
                        because thy already make up ther choise from there stupid stupid media
                        stupid just like them

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                           A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           <--- one for each

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                        A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        What about the "just" killing of a person in Islam, or at least, the interpretation thereof?
                        
                        
                        
                        Or, it is just your interpretation against theirs.
                        
                        
                        
                        LOL!
                        
                        
                        
                        Yes, but they are man made principles based on Arab culture disguised as divine principles revealed from a god. That's why they have nothing to do with the rest of the modern worlds principles, reason, logic or even reality. To base laws on those principles is preposterous and absurd.

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                           hassamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           I think the third was for you! There is no such thing as "just" killing in Islam, neither any interpretation of it, I don't know how you coined that word. A person can only be denounced guilty by the court and then sentenced solely by the court, no one else has the authority to kill  anybody not even the leaders!
                           
                           Man made principles will always be influenced by local culture, that is why every country has different laws.

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                              darknight444posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              pls hassam read what i tape up theretell me if thy are or not just killing???
                              even non muslims considere it as just killing

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                              A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              Then, why are there verses in the Quran allowing and condoning Muslims to kill?
                              
                              
                              
                              Sorry, but culture isn't supposed to influence laws.
                              
                              Of course, we can also say that different countries have different religions because of man made principles and local cultures. That makes much more sense.

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                                 hassamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 Those verses are about war, and you are expected to kill the opponents in defense when someone wages war upon you. Don't tell be that it is not written in any other rule book to defend oneself.
                                 
                                 Yes, culture isn't suppose to influence the law but it does, if not the state laws but mostly the local laws. I am sure you haven't heard of the 'Panchait System' in sub-continental countries, which is a local law that exist in rural areas even though state law applies to them, and mind you it has nothing to do with religion, it is centuries old culture but still influences the local people.

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                                    A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                    Ah yes, my holy book taught me to kill others whom I believe are waging war on me. That belief opens up a massive can of worms and can be interpreted in a great many ways, and it has.
                                    
                                    Defending oneself is a whole lot different than being taught there is an expectation to kill ones alleged opponents.
                                    
                                    Any holy book that condones the killing of others under any circumstances is immoral and unethical.
                                    
                                    But, thank you for admitting that as it shows your position as well as that of other Muslims who believe they have the right to kill others whom they perceive as waging war on them.
                                    
                                    Peaceful religion, indeed.

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                                       hassamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                       Yes I do know that it is something that can be quite easily misunderstood and that is why it is the most exploited thing about Islam. There is no justification for killing any innocent person in Islam and it didn't tell that Islam allows anybody to kill anybody just because he things that there is a war upon us.
                                       
                                       Defending is different than killing and such principles of patriotism are taught in every Army of the world. Where Army men are trained specifically to defend the country, even at the cost of their lives and similarly in an Islamic state these rules apply to the state army, not any individual group. If such thinking exists among any group it should be suppressed immediately.
                                       
                                       It is sad that people who are not even literate are taught as if every other guy who is not following Islam is waging war upon the religion but all that is happening for personal gains. I know more than anybody else as we suffer the same thing in our country. Where most of the population is Muslim still such people attack the innocent population which majority of the learned Muslims and the highest scholars condemn.
                                       
                                       P.S: I hate threads shifting to the right, but had to clear my point, so you don't consider me and every other Muslim a terrorist!

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                                          A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                          Perhaps, it is more widely interpreted as justification as opposed to misunderstood.
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          Why would a religion need an army or teach its followers in military terms? That just makes it obvious the religion was man made to rule over a culture of violence.
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          I never said I did consider every Muslim a terrorist. On the contrary, I find that those who call themselves Muslims but are mostly far removed from the religion itself are quite nice, peaceful people. But, like other religions that teach their followers from a medieval perspective, those who follow closely to them are usually the ones that cause the most conflicts.
                                          
                                          And, if we look at terrorists themselves, we often find they're middle to upper class males who decided to accept the old, medieval military way of Islam.

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            amymarie_5posted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Arabs used to bury their baby girls alive?  How heinous.  I get so depressed hearing about the way innocent women are treated all over the world, but when it's a helpless baby it makes it even more evil.  I'd do anything to have a child, especially a little girl.

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               darknight444posted 13 years agoin reply to this

               hey
               the 6 cenetry and thank god for islam thy became the leading nation in wemen rights untill thise day of libiralisme
               
               at that time uropian cristian  contrys have the witch hunt to kill anny woman that use here mind and think
               thy were debating if wemen are human bieng just like man or not

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                  amymarie_5posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Yes I do know about the witch hunts in Europe. I admit I don't know much about the Islam culture. I do feel that the people pay the price for the extremists. It's not right. Even Christians have extremists.

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                     darknight444posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     it s the same problemes in arabick countrys
                     
                     in the arabik countrys there is jews and cristian arabs not immigrantes like in urope thy existe before islam and thy choose to keep there religion and islam give them that and thy start to  suffer
                     
                     some kreep in urope say or post somthink aboute islam or israel bombe   palastine than thise arabique jews and crisitan get attacked

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                  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  At that time, yes. But, we no longer burn witches. So, why don't you and your religion enter the 21st century with similar changes?

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                     darknight444posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     how you wont me to reponde to thise
                     youre just sooo stupid

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                        A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        With intelligence, honesty and integrity.
                        
                        
                        
                        What will make me smart like you?

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   aka-djposted 13 years ago

   What does Islam do to Muslims who (un) convert?
   Like many who become Christians, because they simply choose to.
   
   I have heard countless stories of being disowned by family, threatened, physically maimed, and killed!
   
   So much for freedom and peace.
   
   
   I know, I know!
   This is also not Islam teaching, but radical people acting on their own impulses.
   I got that. Really, I got that.
   
   However, it doesn't explain why the Imam's, or whoever has authority, don't ever come out and denounce it, or condemn those who do it.
   VERY INTERESTING.
   
   Often inaction speaks louder than many words.

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      darknight444posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      what is thise stupid question
      there are only 2 countrys that use sharia
      and the state applicate sharia laws not familys
      the stat not muslims not the mosque
      to use sharia there must be equality between all muslims and non muslims in the society

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         A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Well, since you've decided we're stupid, then equality between us has been denounced and we are no longer considered worthy to use Shariah Law.
         
         All in favor of rejecting Shariah Law based on stupidity, say 'Aye'!

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            darknight444posted 13 years agoin reply to this

            well i fiqgure out that you re e  ____ since you start posting youre luffes
            
            say somthink good or dont speak at all , thise is e teaching of mohamed the messenger of god ,you should use it

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               A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               LOL! Islamic censorship? If I don't agree with Muhammad the lying despot, don't say anything at all.

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   darknight444posted 13 years ago

   pls all of you
   i explaine to you the true meaning of honor killing and not lies of TV
   
   what ever you add that s from you and not sharia honor killing
   
   i have gave you sharia definition of it
   but the crimes that you talking aboute are not honor kiling and islam is againste it punished by death if you commit that in islamique countrys

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