Do you believe in Heaven?

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   romariposted 13 years ago

   
   What can you say about Heaven visitations during Near Death Experiences?

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      Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I believe there's a Heaven.
      I dunno if those near-death experiences are a glimpse of Heaven or not.  They're unproveable, so it boils down to whether or not we believe the person who said they experienced them.

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         Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         But we KNOW that we can induce these experiences with drugs, so I'd say that does "prove" it.  The experiences are real in the sense that they happened; they are not "real" in the sense of being true.  It's just chemicals.

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            Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            What about the ones that aren't drug-induced?

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               Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               They ARE drug induced.  Those chemicals are given off as the brain loses oxygen.
               
               We know how this all works.  It's just chemistry.

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                  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Assuming we're just physical, yes.
                  But not when we assume that a human being is more than just a physical body.
                  That's the thing.
                  There is much evidence that humans are more than a physical body.  Those near-death experiences indicate that.  And when a person dies, we can look back and remember that the person had an individual, unique spirit and personality.  Those are things you can't pinpoint and say they existed only in a person's toe or physical heart or brain.  If that weren't the case, then a transplanted heart would transform the recipient into the dead person.

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                     Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Take your computer  and smash it with a hammer.   Motherboard, harddrive, keyboard, everything.
                     
                     Now "transplant" a working hard drive and let me know if your computer works.
                     
                     When a brain dies, physical changes happen to the cells.  You can't fix that with a new heart :-)

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                        Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Humans aren't just "computers".

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                           Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           Yes, we are.  Just biological computers.  I know you won't agree with that and that's understandable.  But your faith doesn't change reality.
                           
                           It's fine that you think otherwise.  It's a beautiful day and I broke my glasses so am heading out to try to get them repaired.  Fortunately that's a bit less high tech than computers or human brains.

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                              Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              
                              
                              That's incredibly interesting. Humans created computers. They didn't simply appear out of nowhere, or evolve from a toaster. Calling the human brain a computer almost sounds as if you are arguing for intelligent design. I thought you were an atheist.

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                     mathsciguyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Why would you make such an assumption? 
                     
                     Technically, what you said was correct - but there really is no reason to simply assume that there is a non-physical aspect to any human simply because you've been told that this is true.  This would be akin to simply assuming that Larry King is a robot just because someone suggested that it was true. 
                     
                     Assumptions are tricky things because they CAN be used properly to make meaningful logical conclusions, but they can also lead a person to nonsensical ideas if the assumptions are baseless.

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                  pedrogposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Not necessarily with drugs, these kind of experiences can be induced with electricity, and magnetic fields, in the case of the "God Helmet".
                  
                  You can also have this experiences when you are subject to high g-forces, like in aero-planes or in those centrifuges to train pilots.

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            habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            But what about people who "see" things while they're clinically dead, and these things turn out to be true? For example, my sister-in-law, an R.N., had a NDE at her doctor's office. While she was "dead," she saw the nurse rip her new blouse off, buttons and all, and place it in a cabinet in another room. Once my Sister-in-law recovered, she told the nurse what she had seen happen, and it was all true. There are lots of similar cases that have been documented by nurses and physicians.
            
            Also, a man named Charles who once worked for my dad was in a coma for months. When he "woke up," his brother was in the room, and Charles told his brother that he knew their mom had died. The brother asked him how he could possibly have known that, and Charles told him she had come to see him in his dreams.

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               Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               I don't think you understand.  When the brain is dying, certain chemicals are released.  If you apply those same chemicals to someone who is NOT dying, they will have those same experiences - including "out of body" sensations.
               
               This has been known for years now.  There is no mystery about it.   
               
               As to Charles, lots of people have dreams like that.  Once in a great while, they turn out to be true.  That's no different than hitting a winning lottery number.  Nothing mysterious whatsoever.

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                  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  I'm not sure you understand. I'm not talking about "out of body sensations." I'm talking about out-of-body knowledge that has been verified by witnesses. And it happens often with NDEs - not just once in a while.

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                     Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     As I said, people dream all kinds of things.  Sometimes they accidentally turn out to be true.   I've dreamed that people died and found them quite alive the next day - I guess the big fella changed his mind?
                     
                     And NO, it does NOT "happen often".

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                        mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        pcunix,       
                        
                        I was sitting on the couch wide awake, and very much sober. i am not a drug user, i do not drink,
                        
                        I was watching a western show on tv, normally I do not like westerns. 
                        My mom had recently passed and I had just recently started dating (the man of my dreams).
                        I had a vision of my mom sitting on a rock facing me but talking to a woman in a very light pink dress with little darker pink flowers and with long hair whose back was to me. The lady turned, took moms hand and looked at me and said take care of my baby, he is precious.
                        
                        Of course that evening, I asked my honey what his mom looked like and he kinda described her and I asked what she was buried in. He described the very dress that the lady was wearing.
                        
                        
                        Pcunix, people have these experiences, but I feel they don't share them  for fear of being made fun of.
                        
                        Many people do not know how to interpret them and say nothing of them.
                        
                        There are a number of reasons why they don' t share them.
                        
                        It breaks my heart that so many people are so hell bent on trying to defend science that they totally ignore the very nature of being they are created to be.
                        
                        Nature talks to us, but you have to listen with your heart.
                        
                        No, I am not a nature freak, but, where are we from? Nature maybe?
                        
                        I am sorry for those that are so closed minded, yet they "think" they have all the answers when in reality, some have no clue.

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                           Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           That's a beautiful story. It's sad that there are those who cannot fathom the possibility of more than the here and now. I don't know what lies on the other side, but I know there is something.

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                              mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              Thank you Emily.  Yes, there is something on the other side.
                              
                              There are clues all around us and if we are in tune with and will listen, nature will "speak" to us.
                              
                              Don't ever be afraid to listen. Not with ears, but with your heart.
                              
                              Kinda like, your head and heart, when they are in agreement, more than likely it is right. If not, maybe its a nay.
                              
                              Yep, listen with your heart, you'll soon find out what that "it" is.

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      Paragliderposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      
      The picture does look a bit like a genie escaping from a beefburger.

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         romariposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         lol..haha

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         Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I'm not surprised. McDonald's has become ubiquitous. Of course there'd be Big Macs in heaven.

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      nightwork4posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      no i don't.

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      Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Heaven is the future, when we have either learned to live together peacefully, or have wiped ourselves out, and in that case, not our heaven, unless you consider oblivion paradise. The NDE is the process of rebirth to a reincarnationist view, and the light at the end of the tunnel is the eye of the physician/eye of God portrayed on the back of the Great Seal. The triangle is the place of the Veil which was pierced at the onset of womanhood/also the veil in the Holy of Holies, rent by the passing of the messiah. This is not a statement of personal belief, but a matter of unending research.

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         MINIMAposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Yes I truly believe in heaven and that is to say that you have to earn it to believe that there is Heaven. Earning a place in Heaven is from what your deeds are here on earth.
         It is  everyone's faith and whosoever have faith  in their deeds will certainly forsee Heaven during their judgement day - ie when the soul leaves the body to accompany the angel to the God's judgment shrine. The body is returned to earth ,air and water in the form of ashes after cremeation.

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      pennyofheavenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      What can anyone who hasn't experienced it say about?

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      A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Both are large rolls of baloney, seasoned with pure nonsense and a dollop of incredulity and baked until thinly veiled.

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         mathsciguyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Tell 'em, Troubled.

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   kirstenblogposted 13 years ago

   I don't believe in heaven and wouldn't want to go if there was one. Eternity is a very very very very long time. Not for me thanks!

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   Pcunixposted 13 years ago

   We already know the chemical basis for these so-called "near death experiences" and can induce them artificially.  It's just a reaction in a dying brain.
   
   The same is true for "religious ecstasy".  It's nothing but chemicals.

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      Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Don't you find it odd that nature would provide a quiet pathway for our passing? Sounds merciful on nature's part. Evidence of nature's mercy exists only here. That is even odder yet. It is not in Nature's nature to be merciful. And if those chemicals were created by an almighty? So, your statement is unconvincing.

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         mathsciguyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         What do you mean by "quiet pathway?"  I can't imagine what you might be referring to - loads of people die horribly and violently every day.  Do you imagine that their passing is quiet as well? 
         
         I don't understand what you are talking about; could you elaborate please?

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      Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I wonder what kind of chemical reaction is going on as the caterpillar turns into a butterfly???? 
      
         Do Ya think that a "different" kind of chemical reaction is happening while that is going on?

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         Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         That is chemicals too, Jerami.  Complex chemicals we call hormones. 
         
         We know an amazing amount now about cell differentiation and how it is driven by chemicals.  It's fascinating stuff - far more interesting than anything religion can offer.

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   Emile Rposted 13 years ago

   I've said it before. I would never imply that people who claim to have experienced them are lying, but I don't believe in heaven and hell; so it's hard to make heads or tails out of what they've allegedly seen.

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   romariposted 13 years ago

   I believe that NEAR death experiences would lead a dying person to visit either heaven or hell.my mom was so Godly, she loved God in her entire life and I thought she was a saint.. when she was dying for hours, and survived for a day, she narrated to us what she saw and she believed it was indeed a heaven..I searched through the net what do people describes about their sighting and what my mom said and seen are exactly the same stories people who had NDEs too.

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   romariposted 13 years ago

   there are so many testimonies about seeing heaven. Specific details about the heaven that they saw are all the same..just the same what John saw in his visions..

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   Toni Brit-Toniposted 13 years ago

   lol i belive in father X-mas as much as i belive in heaven

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   olodarkwriterposted 13 years ago

   The question isn't do you believe in Heaven, but does Heaven believe in you.If it doesn't, does that mean you don't exist?

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   Leaderofmanyposted 13 years ago

   I don't know if there is a heaven/hell but our soul has to leave an go somewhere whether on to the next live or to eternity, the heaven/hell gives us something to comfort us during our time here on earth. If we had nothing to live for why would we exist?

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    Disappearingheadposted 13 years ago

    A couple weeks ago I posted a link to a BBC news article which talked about proof that NDE experiences are all in the mind. This is entirely in keeping with the bible which does not teach that we have a soul that goes to heaven or hell upon death, but that we are made of flesh that rots in the grave until a resurrection.
    
    God is spirit, but we are flesh and flesh only.

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       Leaderofmanyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       I really don't want to think I'm going to die, just to rot in a plot of earth.I want to believe that there is more. Rather it be heaven/hell or another relm. Dying and just rotting is not worth believeing.

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          Disappearingheadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          In the grave the bible says that we are 'asleep' or 'resting with our fathers'. There will be a future resurection. If we are followers of Christ we reign with Him. If not, we don't. Each person will be judged in accordance with their works done on Earth.

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             mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this

             Then what does the Bible mean when it says to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord?
             
             We have a soul, and when our bodies take that last breath, it either goes north, or it goes south. The body, yeah, it goes back to the earth.

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       Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       "And God breathed the breath of life into Adam...and he became a living soul." Got that from the first couple of chapters. Elementary, my dear Watson!

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          Disappearingheadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          The soul is the biochemical workings of the brain. The breath of God imparts life into the dust and so the brain lives. As David said to God in psalm 104:29 "....when you take away their breath, they die and return to the dust". No breath of life from God and we are just dust or flesh. The soul is that miracle of human conciousness that is the result of being alive. Nothing immortal here that exists beyond death.
          
          No shit Sherlock

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    habeeposted 13 years ago

    Yes, I believe in Heaven!

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    Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years ago

    Do you believe in Heaven?
    
    No. I believe in next. (I believe there is something after this existence but I do not believe we are going to a place where we become as powerful as God. Heaven as described by the ancient/modern churches is a place where we become God.)

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    Pcunixposted 13 years ago

    But never mind.  If it makes y'all happy to believe it, believe it and be happy.  I probably shouldn't have mentioned anything about reality.
    
    It's been a beautifully warm November day.  That's heaven enough for me :-)

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       Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Which means you really are closer to the truth than you can admit to yourself. The future might not be that far off.

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       habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       It's a cold, windy day here in South GA!

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    romariposted 13 years ago

    only atheist are non-believers of heaven and hell.and take note, we are not Flesh alone..we are composed of flesh,spirit and soul..

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       Azaurmythposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Erm, I'm a Pagan, and I don't believe in Heaven/Hell. I believe there is a neutral place where there is no good and no evil and our souls can go to commune with the Gods when all is said and done. But Heaven and Hell, no, not at all.

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    Arcjahadposted 13 years ago

    I believe in heaven but I also know that mankind will never reside in heaven, the concept of a spiritual hell is false according to scripture. But I understand that these spirits that people see were never humans they just take the form of humans

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    romariposted 13 years ago

    when my mom was alive, she experienced NDE 3 days before she died.
    She had a glimpse of heaven and described it as a golden crystal city with many mansions.
    she saw her parents.
    she said she was not walking and she was strolling around the city.
    she saw HER mansion with her name written on the door.
    It was fully furnished yet she saw my mansion with only few angels constructing it.
    These working angels don't construct the mansions like what a human construction worker does.
    Only by sprinkling of some magical dusts,the mansion is built and painted.
    
    For a non-believer, this story might be funny and sounds like a joke. But it's not.
    I believe there is a heaven waiting for us.
    and NDEs can let the dying person to see what is heaven or what is hell.

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       A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       No, your mom simply had a vivid imagination. No joke.

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    Johnjfernandoposted 13 years ago

    Sopranos Christopher after he gets revived from being clinically dead:
    'I saw my dad, Tony. I think he was in hell. He says its horrible. He says he keeps getting whacked the same way he did right before he died here. He said it happens to him over and over again. He says living like this is gonna get me to hell too.'
    
    Paulie, 'Relax you was in pergatory kid. Did anything happen to you?'
    
    Chris, 'No.'
    
    I think believing that there s an inevitable known as heaven and hell dictates our actions in life and helps us try to be good neighbours to each other.

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    Jeramiposted 13 years ago

    Disappearinghead wrote:
    In the grave the bible says that we are 'asleep' or 'resting with our fathers'. There will be a future resurection. If we are followers of Christ we reign with Him. If not, we don't. Each person will be judged in accordance with their works done on Earth.
    
    = == = == = ==
    
    me   
      I have come to ;MY own conclusion that ...
    
      Upon his death Samuel was asleep in the grave, as did King David; approx 1000 BC.
      Jesus taught that "when" the resurrection comes, ????
      Jesus also taught that "THIS generation shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled.
      Daniel 11 & 12 also addresses this issue.  When the FOURTH kingdom comes into power; and the king of fierce countenance  (Little Horn) rises to power and dies; "At that time Michael stands or the children of Daniels people, and many will be redeemed from among man, and many that are in the graves.
       Who was this little horn?  He belongs to the FOURTH kingdom (Roman Empire) and he will rise up after the first ten, replacing three kings.
    
      Scripture does NOT say that these three kings being replaced are of the first ten kings.
      Though Titus wasn't king at the time when he destroyed the temple in Jerusalem, he was the tenth.
      Within  a couple of weeks of his becoming Emperor, Mt Vesuvius erupts, fulfilling one of the seal judgments. Three more emperors rise to power,,,  then Hadrian (the little horn) comes to power replacing three kings after the ten.
       Hadrian was the last Emperor to have been given dominion over the children of Daniels people.
    
      According to Daniel 12 & 13   "the Rapture happened at that time.
      However; this was not "THE" first resurrection.  These were the first fruits unto the Lord.
    
       The Resurrection happened after the sixth trumpet was sounded ; I think, around 890 AD.
    From this event forward, when a person dies in the Lord, they rest from their labors and their works do follow them"  Rev 14:13
    
        Why do people think that prophesy is always a future event, that time never catches up with the prophesy?
    
    Gotta go take care of a chore,  be back in a little while.

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    ikechiawazieposted 13 years ago

    I beleive in heaven

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       Johnjfernandoposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       AMEN!

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    romariposted 13 years ago

    heaven is the opposite of hell right.. if you believe in heaven so believe in hell also.

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