THE RELIGION OF ISLAM

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daeemominposted 16 years ago
THE RELIGION OF ISLAM
The first thing that one should know and clearly understand about Islam is what the word "Islam" itself means. The religion of Islam is not named after a person as in the case of Christianity which was named after Jesus Christ, Buddhism after Gotama Buddha, Confucianism after Confucius, and Marxism after Karl Marx. Nor was it named after a tribe like Judaism after the tribe of Judah and Hinduism after the Hindus. Islam is the true religion of "Allah" and as such, its name represents the central principle of Allah's "God's" religion; the total submission to the will of Allah "God". The Arabic word "Islam" means the submission or surrender of one's will to the only true god worthy of worship "Allah" and anyone who does so is termed a "Muslim", The word also implies "peace" which is the natural consequence of total submission to the will of Allah. Hence, it was not a new religion brought by Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) I in Arabia in the seventh century, but only the true religion of Allah re-expressed in its final form.
Islam is the religion which was given to Adam, the first man and the first prophet of Allah, and it was the religion of all the prophets sent by Allah to mankind. The name of God's religion lslam was not decided upon by later generations of man. It was chosen by Allah Himself and clearly mentioned in His final revelation to man. In the final book of divine revelation, the Qur'aan, Allah states the following:

"This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion". (Soorah Al-Maa'idah 5:3)

"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah (God) never will It be accepted of Him" (Soorah Aal'imraan 3:85)

"Abraham was not a Jew nor Christian; but an upright Muslim." (Soorah Aal'imraan 3:67)

Nowhere in the Bible will you find Allah saying to Prophet Moses' people or their descendants that their religion is Judaism, nor to the followers of Christ that their religion is Christianity. In fact, Christ was not even his name, nor was it Jesus! The name "Christ" comes from the Greek word Christos which means the annointed. That is, Christ is a Greek translation of the Hebrew title "Messiah". The name "Jesus" on the other hand, is a latinized version of the Hebrew name Esau.
For simplicity's sake, I will however continue to refer to Prophet Esau (PBUH) as Jesus. As for his religion, it was what he called his followers to. Like the prophets before him, he called the people to surrender their will to the will of Allah; (which is Islam) and he warned them to stay away from the false gods of human imagination.
According to the New Testament, he taught his followers to pray as follows: "Yours will be done on earth as it is in Heaven".

THE MESSAGE OF ISLAM

Since the total submission of one's will to Allah represents the essence of worship, the basic message of Allah's divine religion, Islam is the worship of Allah alone and the avoidance of worship directed to any person, place or thing other than Allah.Since everything other than Allah, the Creator of all things, is Allah's creation; it may be said that Islam, in essence calls man away from the worship of creation and invites him to worship only its Creator. He is the only one deserving man's worship as it is only by His will that prayers are answered. If man prays to a tree and his prayers are answered, it was not the tree which answered his prayers but Allah who allowed the circumstances prayed for to take place. One might say, "That is obvious," however, to tree-worshippers it might not be. Similarly, prayers to Jesus, Buddha, or Krishna, to Saint Christopher, or Saint Jude or even to Muhammad, are not answered by them but are answered by Allah. Jesus did nottell his followers to worship him but to worship Allah. As the Qur'aan states:

"And behold Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary Did you say to men, Worship me and my mother as gods besides Allah He will say-"Glory to you I could never say what I had no right (to say')" (Soorah Al-Maa'idah- 5:116)

Nor did he worship himself when he worshipped but rather he worshipped Allah. This basic principle is enshrined in the opening chapter of the Qur'aan, known as Soorah Al-Faatihah, verse 4:

"You alone do we worship and from you alone do we seek help".
Elsewhere, in the final book of revelation, the Qur'aan, Allah also said:

"And your Lord says:"Call on Me and I will answer your(prayer)."(Soorsh Mu'min 40:60)

it is worth noting that the basic message of Islam is that Allah and His creation are distinctly different entities. Neither is Allah His creation or a part of it, nor is His creation Him or a part of Him.
This might seem obvious, but, man's worship of creation instead of the Creator is to a large degree based on ignorance of this concept. It is the belief that the essence of Allah is everywhere in His creation or that His divine being is or was present in some aspects of His creation, which has provided justification for the worship of creation though such worship maybecalled the worship of Allah through his creation. How ever, the message of Islam as brought by the prophets of Allah is to worship only Allah and to avoid the worship of his creation either directly or indirectly. In the Our'aan Allah clearlystates:

"For We assuredly sent amongst every people a prophet,(with the command) worship meand avoid false gods " (Soorsh Al-Nahl 16:36)

When the idol worshipper is questioned as to why he or she bows down to idols created by men, the invariable reply is that they are not actually worshipping the stone image, but Allah who is present within it. They claim that the stone idol is only a focal point for Allah's essence and is not in itself Allah! One who has accepted the concept of the presence of God's being within His creation in any way will be obliged to accept this argument of idolatry. Whereas, one who understands the basic message of Islam and its implications would never concede to idolatry no matter how it is rationalized. Those who have claimed divinity for themselves down through the ages have often based their claims on the mistaken belief that Allah is present in man. They merely had to assert that although Allah according to their false beliefs, is in all of us, He is more present in them than in the rest of us. Hence, they claim, we should submit our will to them and worship them as they are either God in person or God concentrated within the person.
Similarly, those who have asserted the godhood of others after their passing have found fertile ground among those who accept the false belief of God's presence in man. One who has grasped the basic message of Islam and its implications could never agree to worship another human being under any circumstances. God's religion in essence is a clear call to the worship of the Creator and the rejection of creation-worship in any form. This is the meaning of the motto of Islam:
"Laa Elaaha lllallaah" (There is no god but Allah)
Its repetition automatically brings one within the fold of Islam and sincere belief in it guarantees one Paradise.
Thus, the final Prophet of Islam is reported to have said, "Any one who says: There is no god but Allah and dies holding that (belief) will enter paradise".(Reported by Abu Dharr and collected by Al-Bukhaaree and Muslim).

It consists in the submission to Allah as one God, yielding to Him by obeying His commandments, and the denial of polytheism and polytheists.

THE MESSAGE OF FALSE RELIGION

There are so many sects, cults, religions, philosophies, and movements in the world, all of which claim to be the right way or the only true path to Allah. How can one determine which one is correct or if, in fact, all are correct? The method by which the answer can be found is to clear away the superficial differences in the teachings of the various claimants to the ultimate truth, and identify the central object of worship to which they call, directly or indirectly. False religions all have in common one basic concept with regards to Allah. They either claim that all men are gods or that specific men were Allah or that nature is Allah or that Allah is a figment of man's imagination.
Thus, it may be stated that the basic message of false religion is that Allah may be worshipped in the form of His creation. False religion invites man to the worship of creation by calling the creation or some aspect of it God. For example, prophet Jesus invited his followers to worship Allah but those who claim to be his followers today call people to worship Jesus, claiming that he was Allah!
Buddha was a reformer who introduced a number of humanistic principles to the religion of India. He did not claim to be God nor did he suggest to his followers that he be an object of worship. Yet, today most Buddhists who are to be found outside of India have taken him to be God and prostrate to idols made in their perception of his likeness.
By using the principle of identifying the object of worship, false religion becomes very obvious and the contrived nature of their origin clear. As God said in the Our'aan:
That which you worship besides Him are only names you and your forefathers have invented for which Allah has sent down no authority: The command belongs only to Allah:

He has commanded that you only worship Him; that is the right religion, but most men do not understand ". (Soorah Yoosuf 12:40)

It may be argued that all religions teach good things so why should it matter which one we follow. The reply is that all false religions teach the greatest evil, the worship of creation. Creation-worship is the greatest sin that man can commit because it contradicts the very purpose of his creation. Man was created to worship Allah alone as Allah has explicitly stated in the Our'aan:

"I have only created Jlnns and men, that they may worship me"(Soorah Zaareeyaat 51:56)

Consequently, the worship of creation, which is the essence of idolatry, is the only unforgivable sin. One who dies in this state of idolatry has sealed his fate in the next life. This is not an opinion, but a revealed fact stated by Allah in his final revelation to man:

"Verily Allah will not forgive the joining of partners with Him, but He may forgive (sins) less than that for whom so ever He wishes"(Soorah An- Nisaa 4:48 and 116)

THE UNIVERSALITY OF ISLAM

Since the consequences of false religion are so grave, the true religion of Allah must be universally understandable and attainable, not confined to any people, place or time. There can not be conditions like baptism, belief in a man, as a saviour etc., for a believer to enter paradise. Within the central principle of Islam and in its definition, (the surrender of one's will to God) lies the roots of lslam's universality. Whenever man comes to the realization that Allah is one and distinct from His creation, and submits himself to Allah, he becomes a Muslim in body and spirit and is eligible for paradise. Thus, anyone at anytime in the most remote region of the world can become a Muslim, a follower of God's religion, Islam, by merely rejecting the worship of creation and by turning to Allah (God) alone-It should be noted however, that the recognition of and submission to Allah requires that one chooses between right and wrong and such a choice implies accountability. Man will be held responsible for his choices, and, as such, he should try his utmost to do good and avoid evil. The ultimate good being the worship of Allah alone and the ultimate evil being the worship of His creation along with or instead of Allah. This fact is expressed in the final revelation as follows:

"Verily those who believe, those who follow the Jewish (Scriptures), the Christians and the Sabians any who believe In Allah and the last day, and work righteousness *hall have their reward with their Lord;They will not be overcome by fear nor grief (Soorah Al-Baqarah 2:62).

If only they had stood by the law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that was sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness from every side. There Is from among them a party on the right course; but many of them follow a course that Is evil.". (Soorah Al-.Maa'idah 5:66)

RECOGNITION OF ALLAH

The question which arises here is, "How can all people be expected to believe in Allah given their varying- backgrounds, societies and cultures? For people to be responsible for worshipping Allah they all have to have access to knowledge of Allah. The final revelation teaches that all mankind have the recognition of Allah imprinted on their souls, a part of their very nature with which they are created.
In Soorah Al-A'raaf, Verses 172-173; Allah explained that when He created Adam, He caused all of Adam's descendants to come into existence and took a pledge from them saying, Am I not your Lord? To which they all replied, " Yes, we testify to It:'
Allah then explained why He had all of mankind bear witness that He is their creator and only true God worthy of worship. He said, "That was In case you (mankind) should say on the day of Resurrection, "Verily we were unaware of all this." That is to say, we had no idea that You Allah, were our God. No one told us that we were only supposed to worship You alone. Allah went on to explain That it was also In case you should say, "Certainly It was our ancestors who made partners (With Allah) and we are only their descendants; will You then destroy us for what those liars did?" Thus, every child is born with a natural belief in Allah and an inborn inclination to worship Him alone called in Arabic the "Fitrah".
If the child were left alone, he would worship Allah in his own way, but all children are affected by those things around them, seen or unseen.
The Prophet (PBUH) reported that Allah said, "I created my servants in the right religion but devils made them go astray". The Prophet (PBUH) also said, "Each child is born in a state of "Fitrah", then his parents make him a Jew, Christian or a Zoroastrian, the way an animal gives birth to a normal offspring. Have you noticed any that were born mutilated?" (Collected by Al-Bukhaaree and Muslim).
So, just as the child submits to the physical laws which Allah has put in nature, his soul also submits naturally to the fact that Allah is his Lord and Creator. But, his parents try to make him follow their own way and the child is not strong enough in the early stages of his life to resist or oppose the will of his parents. The religion which the child follows at this stage is one of custom and upbringing and Allah does not hold him to account or punish him for this religion.

Throughout people's lives from childhood until the time they die, signs are shown to them in all regions of the earth and in their own souls, until it becomes clear that there is only one true God (Allah). If the people are honest with themselves, reject their false gods and seek Allah, the way will be made easy for them but if they continually reject Allah's signs and continue to worship creation, the more difficult it will be for them to escape. For example, in the South Eastern region of the Amazon jungle in Brazil, South America, a primitive tribe erected a new hut to house their main idol Skwatch, representing the supreme God of all creation. The homage to the God, and while he was in prostration to what he had been taught was his Creator and Sustainer, a mangy old flea-ridden dog walked into the hut, The young man looked up in time to see the dog lift its hind leg and pass urine on the idol. Outraged, the youth chased the dog out of the temple, but when his rage died down he realized that the idol could not be the Lordof the universe. Allah must be elsewhere. he now had a choice to act on his knowledge and seek Allah, or to dishonestly go along with the false beliefs of his tribe. As strange as it may seem, that was a sign from Allah for that young man. It contained within it divine guidance that what he was worshipping was false.
Prophets were sent, as was earlier mentioned, to every nation and tribe to support man's natural belief in Allah and man's inborn inclination to worship Him as well as to reinforce the divine truth in the daily signs revealed by Allah. Although, in most cases, much of the prophets' teachings became distorted, portions remained which point out right and wrong. For example, the ten commandments of the Torah, their confirmation in the Gospels and the existence of laws against murder, stealing and adultery in most societies. Consequently, every soul will be held to account for its belief in Allah and its acceptance of the religion of Islam; the total submission to the will of Allah.
We pray to Allah, the exalted, to keep us on the right path to which He has guided us, and to bestow on us a blessing from Him, He is indeed the Most Merciful. Praise and gratitude be to Allah,the Lord of the worlds, and peace and blessings be on prophet Muhammed, his Family, his companions, and those who rightly follow them.
Author: Abu Ameenah Bilal Philips
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aka-djposted 16 years ago
If you truly understood the teaching of Jesus, the Bible, both old testament and New, you would realise that many of the statements that you ( and the author you quote) make are inaccurate.
Just a few examples,
1) the whole foundation of Christianity is based on the ressurection of Jesus.(something that Islam denies).
2) Jesus did not call his follwers christians, non-believers at Antioch called them that, many years after He left earth.
3) Your explanation of Christ is accurate, but Jesus=Esau is not. Jesus is Greek version of Joshua, or Jehoshua, meaning "deliverer, or saviour" which is consistent with His identity/nature/character and mission.
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  mohitmisraposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Islam excepts Jesus as a great Prophet.They the religions are brothers and the same.Its foolish man and his big ego and lack of understanding which creates a divide.
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Thinkaboutit77posted 16 years ago
The world doesn't need another "messenger" it needs a Saviour and God has provided Him.
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  sandra rinckposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Are you God?
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  mohitmisraposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Whats the difference between a messenger ,a saviour or a prophet-different names thats all. :")
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aka-djposted 16 years ago
Just one more point I wish to raise.
If I understood your writing, (please coorect me if I misunderstood you), Allah has mercy on whomever he wishes. Sin can be forgiven, or not forgiven, based on his will.
The God of the Bible states, that "all men are sinners" and worthy of death, as punishment.
NO EXCEPTIONS!
I know a lot of people (vehemently) oppose this statement, but I will leave that with them.
"The wages of sin is death" (Romans 2;23)
Instead of getting all upset, trying to discredit this statement, abusing those that utter the same, one needs to keep reading. The second part says "but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord"
Islam,I'm sure, holds to the idea of "law", yes?
See, Romans 6;23 is a law. A spiritual law.
Jesus is our "sacrificial lamb" if you will. He died the death we deserved.
Now we have a situation, where (our) God sentences all man(kind) to death for sin, BUT, he accepted the (sacrificial) death of Jesus (one sin-less man) as a substitute for us. So, that means that eternal life is a gift, because I did not deserve it, but accepted it (by faith).
It's a covenant that God made. And He keeps His covenant.
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  mohitmisraposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Death is the door to God.One must die and be reborn.Death is not understood and is looked upon as bad by some-. eternal life happens or is achievable on death.
  Death is my friend,
  Where there is no trend.
  
  Why fear,it is really near.
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AEvansposted 16 years ago
O.K. everyone WWJD? He would listen and not judge I am Christian too but everyone is entitled to share there opinions and beliefs. Some of you may get upset with me however the Qur'aan is written and parts of the information he states is clear and concise. As we all worship God we do not worship Jesus, as Jesus was the son of God as we are taught we as Christians should go in with open minds and pray before we write as God certainly would not want us to offend others but to understand and reply as a Child of God would do. I have read the Qur'aan as I have friends who are muslim and it says exactly in so many ways, what the holy bible says. So my recommendation is to study other religions before you make comment after all WWJD? He certainly would not be condescending and would not come back with any derogatory , he would ask questions and lead , not turn the other cheek.

aka-dj I commend you for standing up to your religion and beliefs as we as Christians do it and you are as well entitled, I am glad that you are sharing your valuable information as many of us are not close-minded about religion but are open-minded and respect others opinions and beliefs. We can only lead others to GOD by being like God and it is a hard thing to do.
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  aka-djposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I certainly do respect other people's beliefs. Everyone has their own free will to believe what so ever they want. My "job" is to put the Word of God out there. The rest is up the them and where they are in their own relationship with God.
  The book of Romans 10; 13-17 teaches that we need to declare the Word, because hearing(reading) it brings faith.
  The other thing I include in my ptost, (or at least try to include) is all the conviction I have. I know in Whom I have believed, and like(?) Paul, I speak.
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  AEvansposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  You are absolutely entitled to as some of my closest friends are muslim and I respect them and have came to realize so many positive things about the religion. The muslim religion gets a bad name due to the extremists , however on the other hand Christians get a bad name as there are so many branches and can be very irritating when others place us all in one hat. It is your job to put the word out there as that is what GOD would have you do , and hopefully somebody or someone will take the time to listen, acknowledge with an open mind and not be severly opinionated. God Bless
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  mohitmisraposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I have read the Qur'aan as I have friends who are muslim and it says exactly in so many ways, what the holy bible says.
  This is absolutely correct.
  So my recommendation is to study other religions before you make comment after all WWJD?
  I am totally with you here.I said this before one must study all the religions in order to really understand God and his prophets.All religions are good.
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dingdongposted 16 years ago
I wonder if people have enough patience to read such long forum posts!!!
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  daeemominposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  there are people who are interested in serious things.
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AEvansposted 16 years ago
dindong, My patience can wear thin, but I used to be one of those lengthy people so I believe it is coming back hehe!!!):
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VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 16 years ago
All religions are good. Their followers differ. Every religion is weighed on the basis of followers..
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  mohitmisraposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Correct its foolish ego and lack of knowledge when someone claims his religion is the only true religion and the best.
  A hub which will help humanity understand religions
  http://hubpages.com/hub/Religionspoem
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  daeemominposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  there should be regard for the followers of every religion. but the statement that all religions are true, is not correct.because there are major differences between religions.
  there was only one religion sent by God.all messenger invited their people to that only way. and that way is total submission to God. people made changes and distortions in their religions. So finally God sent the last messenger and he was prophet muhammed (peace be upone him). islam means total submission to one God.
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  mohitmisraposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Yes but get the bottom line- One God. The essence in every religions is identical -did you read my poem religions ? Mohammed was a messenger like Jesus or the Buddha exactly the same.
  there was only one religion sent by God-this is a strange statement-all religions are paths to god.There have been many masters and prophets-enlightened ones who have helped show others the way.This way is defined as religion :
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  daeemominposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  you say that there is one God and He is showing different paths.Guiding some people to north and some others to south...If God is one how can there be different religions and ways of life conflicting each other. there has to be one true religion along with so many deviated religions
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Exactly. You are proving that there is no god.
  
  If there is a god - how on earth can there be different religions?
  
  Ergo - there is no god.
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  daeemominposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  The conclusion you are drawing from my statement is utterly wrong. Existence of different religions doesn’t mean that there exists no God. God has guided people towards the right way of life. People did not find it according to their desires and they are corrupted the teaching of their prophets so He sent the last messenger who teaching are not distorted. It rather proves the existence of God that whenever people went astray He sent His messengers to show them the right path.
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  Ben Bushposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I realize that the human tendency is to judge a religion by its followers.
  
  But what about judging each religion's God or gods?
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  daeemominposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Religion can not be judged on the basis of its followers.you must see its teachings.
  
  There is only one God.so many gods cannot run this universe smoothly. if there exist more than one God there would be no harmony in the universe.
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  Ben Bushposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  So, does the disharmony evident in Earths history speak of many gods?
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  daeemominposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Disharmony is evident on earth because of our deeds. Its is not there in universe.
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  Ben Bushposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Disharmony is evident on earth, but Earth is, somehow, not a part of the universe, which is harmonious?
  
  So, is the earth somehow separate from the universe? Is there one god for the earth and one god for the universe?
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  AEvansposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Ben, you know better as there is only 1 God for the entire Universe. Disharmony is apparent on Earth as life does not exist in the Universe. however Earth is part of the Universe well that is what they taught us in school. :::::
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  Ben Bushposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I am simply attempting to determine if there is a different form of logic being applied to the religious position. Or if standard logical thinking is being ignored.
  
  And besides, Jesus referred to men being "gods."
  
  Being a woman, I'm not sure if that includes you. That might be an even more foreign realm of logic! Maybe a parallel universe!:
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  AEvansposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  You are funny!!! They say women are from a different universe mmm if there is only one I wonder which one. :::::::::::::: or may there is two.
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  Ben Bushposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  You are much too humble.
  
  Surely you meant to say that women are a different universe!
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  AEvansposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  mmm I will never kiss and tell
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  daeemominposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Even on earth, there is no flaw in the laws of nature that God made. if there is some disharmony that is due man's deeds. Man has been bestowed with choice so that God can test him.
  Quran says
  Mischief has appeared on land and sea because of that the hands of men have earned, that Allah may give them a taste of some of their deeds: in order that they may turn back (Chapter: 30, verse: 41)
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  daeemominposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  there is no such thing as each religion's god. there is only one God. but you can say that people have associated so many things with God.
  you can judge the concept of God is each religion. this concept varies from religion to relgion. One is pure concept which suits the reason. and other concepts are man-made.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  No, the conclusion I am drawing is a reasonable one given your original statement.
  
  As with all other representatives of any religion, you are claiming that yours is the correct one and all the others are wrong. And you are using the same argument that the christians use to point out that it is wrong:
  
  That it came later
  
  People have been making up "the right way," according to their desires since the first religion.
  
  Why on earth should yours be any different?
  
  Ergo - there is no god, and no prophets speak in His name.
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  daeemominposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  It is not that my religion is Islam so I want to prove that it is correct. Rather the fact is that after the in-depth study I found that it is the only true religion. That is why I am following it.
  Yes everyone claims that his religion is correct. But it doesn’t mean that all of them are wrong. There has to be any one of them who is right.
  1. We all agree that there must be a creator and sustainer of this universe.
  2. We also agree that we are in need of His guidance to know the correct way of life.
  No religion disagree these two statements. Then how come you draw the conclusion that there is no God. We don’t differ on His existence. The only difference between us is which way is His way.
  
  You said: “you are using the same argument that the Christians use to point out that it is wrong:
  
  That it came later” yes there argument is a right argument. But they use this argument in relation with Judaism not in connection with Islam.
  It is not only that Islam came later but also that those scripture which are said to be revealed from God are not in their original form except Quran. There are so many versions of Bible. Moreover, bible in its original language is not there. We find only translations of Bible. You can not cite any slightest difference in Quran. Quran is available in its original language.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Actually no.
  
  I was in a discussion with one of my Catholic friends recently, and one of the arguments he used to prove that his religion is better than Islam was that Islam came later and was a mere copy of the Catholic religion.
  
  But I do not read your language. So, guess what? I have read a translation
  
  And guess what? That makes it the works of man, not god.
  
  As Venugopal correctly points out - the only sensible alternative is atheism. I have reached this conclusion after an in-depth study of most of the major religions.
  
  Thus, I avoid arguing over which of the thousands of religions and words of god there are to choose from is correct.
  
  Easy. They are all wrong. There is no god, because if there was, I would think he would have the wherewithal to make his message a little more clear.
  
  Being omnipotent and all.
  
  Therefore, you make my argument for me. By the simple fact of claiming that your religion is correct and all others are wrong, you prove that there is no such thing as god.
  
  Thank you.
  
  Edit - And I hope you come back and argue some more, because I feel so one sided with only christians to argue with. It will balance things out if I get the chance to tell you what I think about your flavor also.
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  AEvansposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  So my friend then you believe in evolution? What is your perception of how we arrived? When you get angry or in shock do you say "Oh My God?" Please assist me with understanding your belief as well.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  
  No, I do not believe in evolution. I accept it as a reasonable scientific theory with a wealth of measurable data to back it up.
  
  I have no idea how we arrived in the beginning. Pretty sure it wasn't magic though.
  
  No, I do not say "Oh my god" as I have been trained to do.
  
  That help?
  
  In return - I would ask you a few questions:
  
  Is everything with you a "belief"?
  
  Do you "believe," that if you are holding something in your hand and you let go of it, it will fall to the ground?
  
  Or is this something you have watched and experienced and you call it "gravity"?
  
  Or is it a faith based belief?
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  AEvansposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  mmmm... good question we were taught that if you were holding something and it fell then it was gravitational as this is a science , it is not faith based belief as I have faith when it comes to things that happen and trials and tribulations, I have had unexplained experiences and I remember this one as clear as yesterday. I was 16 years old and had pneumonia , my parents rushed me to the hospital and they had pronounced me Dead , I heard them and could see them and I could see me laying on that bed, and there was a big beautiful light and there were many people there, people that appeared familiar and no they were not aliens. My natural father died when I was 7 and on that day I heard him, his voice tell me to go back , and I felt this force push me and seconds later , I remember opening my eyes and my mom standing there in ER crying over me, she said she prayed for me . After I full recovered my step-father, mother and dr. all told me I was pronounced dead and mom said it was the power of faith and God that brought me back. I have faith because I have walked through the door, however I do not push what I believe on others and I try to understand others as we are all entitled to what we believe. Many Christians would probably not agree as they would not think that I am true to my GOD, but I am leaving breathing proof that I am. I am glad that you clarified so that I have a better understanding and I respect your belief.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  What belief is it that you respect exactly?
  
  Seeing as I have just said I do not "believe."
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  AEvansposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  To me there is God that is my belief and to you there is not so I respect your opinion as everyone is entitled to there own personal beliefs.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I do not understand. I do not have a belief, so how can you respect it?
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  BDazzlerposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  If you type define:belief in google, the first response is:
  any cognitive content held as true
  
  You seem to have a "belief" that that certain things are resonable and certain things are not. That is a cognitive content that you peronally hold as true. Your right to have that cognitive content as your own is what should be respected.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Ah, semantics, the last refuge
  
  Once again, what is it that I believe and is respected?
  
  I do not believe.
  
  I am not holding a belief.
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  BDazzlerposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  LOL - As you say, semantics, the last refuge! As a great Jedi philosopher once said, "... you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."
  
  From a "certain point of view" the non-belief you speak of is a cognative truth.
  
  Nevertheless, "A rose by any other name will still cost twice as much on February 14".
  
  LOL - you play the semantic game well for one who pretends to hold it in contempt!!
  
  So, semantically, I suppose you would prefer that we say, "We respect your non-belief"... which is a belief .... "from a certain point of view"
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  
  OK, for the sake of argument we will call it a non-belief.
  
  But, the original statement is therefore untrue.
  
  I mean, I do not respect your beliefs if your beliefs include an all-powerful god who sends talking snakes down to earth to ensure mankind is born in sin and we all need to symbolically accept his only son who died as penance for our sins as our personal savior or we are going to burn in hell for all eternity.
  
  No sirree bob, no respect there. I think it is childish, condescending, arrogant, uneducated and down right silly to believe such a fairy tale
  
  I do, of course, respect your right to hold those beliefs.
  
  Mainly because I can't do anything about them any way. Any more than you can force me to change my non-belief.
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  BDazzlerposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  See? That's a belief! You believe my beliefs are silly!
  
  I knew you had one in there somewhere!
  
  You also seem to believe that "condescending, arrogant, uneducated and down right silly" are not "good things" ... Hey I've found two of them in one sentence.
  
  I think you are correct to say the right to the belief, not the belief itself should be respected. I also consider your beliefs (or lack thereof) to be foolish, arrogant and self-centered.
  
  I don't respect your foolish arrogance. You don't respect my childish fairy tales. Fair enough.
  
  But I respect your right to have your foolish arrogance just as you respect my right to have my childish fairy tales.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Why?
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  BDazzlerposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Since you don't know me, my own experiences will mean little to you. Since you don't believe in the bible, it would be foolish to use it as "proof". So, since you do use the computer, I will instead, quote Blaise Pascal as an authority, since he built the first known computing machine in Europe. Pascal made vital contributions to the very mathemetical and physical sciences that make the computing machines we use daily possible. He was, undoubtedly, a brilliant man and unquestionably rational. .. quoting Blaise:
  
  "If I saw no signs of a divinity, I would fix myself in denial. If I saw everywhere the marks of a Creator,I would repose peacefully in faith. But seeing too much to deny Him, and too little to assure me,...Endeavour then to convince yourself, not by increase of proofs of God, but by the abatement of your passions. You would like to attain faith, and do not know the way; you would like to cure yourself of unbelief, and ask the remedy for it. Learn of those who have been bound like you ... Now, what harm will befall you in taking this side? You will be faithful, honest, humble, grateful, generous, a sincere friend, truthful. Certainly you will not have those poisonous pleasures, glory and luxury; but will you not have others? I will tell you that you will thereby gain in this life, and that, at each step you take on this road, you will see so great certainty of gain, so much nothingness in what you risk, that you will at last recognize that you have wagered for something certain and infinite, for which you have given nothing..."
  
  I can only say that in my experience, Pascal was right. What I have gained by abandoning un-belief is immesurable, and what I lost by abandoning it is zero.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I have never actually met some one who is faithful, honest, humble, grateful, generous, a sincere friend, truthful. because of their faith.
  
  Are you saying that you are such a one?
  
  The second coming perhaps?
  
  Oddly enough, M. Pascal voices some of my own conclusions (sans god)
  
  For after all what is man in nature? A nothing in relation to infinity, all in relation to nothing, a central point between nothing and all and infinitely far from understanding either. The ends of things and their beginnings are impregnably concealed from him in an impenetrable secret. He is equally incapable of seeing the nothingness out of which he was drawn and the infinite in which he is engulfed.
  
  I see no beginning or end. I accept that I am as important as a grain of sand on the beach. And it is widely accepted that his published works were edited so as not to offend the church.
  
  Although, I have to ask -
  
  Why is it necessary to see a god to exhibit the traits that Pascal and yourself claim to exhibit?
  
  Also - You did not answer the question. Why does my lack of belief in the christian faith make me foolish, arrogant and self-centered?
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  BDazzlerposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I know many. I'm sorry you don't. Experience counts for much.
  
  Why not? The very act of asking the question implies an answer. If you are correct, then the answer cannot matter, because there is in fact only one truth, and that truth is that there is no truth. Which is self-contradictory.
  
  To deny that which is self-evident is arrogant. To claim that one's lack of belief and experience is superior to another's belief and experence is self-centered.
  
  However, as you say, knowlege without humility, sincerity etc. simply equips us to argue with those who disagree with us, and if those are the only "Christians" you've know, then I don't blame you.
  
  But, an idea is not responsible for the people who believe it.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Yes experience does count for much. Once again though, you did not answer my question.
  
  OK - So we agree. A belief in a god is not necessary to exhibit these traits.
  
  You are good at the semantics though, I will grant you that.
  
  But it is only "self-evident" to you, not to me. Surely that does not make me arrogant?
  
  And why does my lack of belief, based on my experiences, mean that I am claiming it is superior to yours?
  
  Surely you could turn this whole statement around. You are the one claiming superior beliefs, because you are claiming that it makes you faithful, honest, humble, grateful, generous, a sincere friend, truthful - traits I take to mean that you believe are "good."
  
  And we have already agreed that a belief in god is not a pre-requisite to be able to exhibit these traits.
  
  And god is now an idea rather than a fact?
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  BDazzlerposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe I'm arrogant., or you maybe are arrogant in denying the evidence before your eyes.
  
  Are you really saying that calling my belief childish is not a statement of superiority?
  
  Here are the obserable facts in my life as I have personally experienced them:
  1. I have personally seen people raised from the dead. (Legally dead for about four hours.) No brain damage
  2. I have personally seen a person that I know who had severe Parkinson's disease throw down his cane and run. He is now perfectly healthy with no trace of the disease except his medical records.
  3. I have personally seen someone who has been diagnosed with Hepetitius C have a doctor tell them their biopsy looks like a "new baby liver".
  4. I have personally been told by God, in an audible voice, to go to a certain place at a certain time and the person who I was suppsosed to meet was there. No other pre-arangement.
  
  ALL of these, within minutes of praying in Jesus name. I have had dozens maybe even hundreds of experiences like this. It has become the norm in my life, not the exception.
  
  So, interpret those facts as you will.
  
  I have no vested interest in convincing you of the truth of God. If you choose to interpret the facts laid out before you as "not God" then, that is your choice. Choices lead to actions and all actions have re-actions.
  
  Nothing you can say or do will alter these experiences. Nothing I can say to you, will alter your conclusins.
  
  You claimed that my belief that Jesus raised my friend from the dead while I was there, even though his death and return to life are medically documented, silly and childish.
  
  That, my friend, is arrogant.
  
  But, I still like you! And think you're a great author!
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  
  I like you too.
  
  And how was I supposed to know about all these miracles you have been able to produce by praying to Jesus?
  
  And why does that make me arrogant because I did not witness these miracles?
  
  They may be "self-evident" to you, but not to me.
  
  That, my friend is arrogant. The assumption that I should know all these things and have witnessed them and therefore believe.
  
  But please email me with the documented medical evidence that you have chosen not to share with me.....
  
  And just so we are straight - anyone who goes into remission from disease is a miracle from Jesus, but anyone who does not is what exactly?
  
  I will not bother sharing my own experiences that have led me to believe the opposite.......
  
  Suffice to say, you are very lucky that your prayers are answered so readily. Hundreds of times apparently. You must be very proud.
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  BDazzlerposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  The fact that you said it without knowing, assuming that I was just saying things without experience to back them up. Without knowing antying about me, you told me my beliefs were childish and silly. So yeah, that's kind of arrogant. .. and no, I'm not proud. Far from it. Far, far, far from it.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I still think your beliefs are childish and silly.
  
  Despite the "proof" you have shown me
  
  Arrogant? Why would I be arrogant because I have not witnessed these "self-evident" proofs you speak of?
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  BDazzlerposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  The documentation you've requested has been emailed along with a few personal comments. If you want to pursue your investigation further, I will be glad to assist
  
  No, that's not why I say you are arrogant, I say that you are arrogant to presume that because you have not seen proof that those who have have childish and silly beliefs.
  
  You are arrogant to assume that the world is limited to things you have seen and experienced.
  
  You are arrogant to assume that just because you don't see how God could exist, that He does not.
  
  You are arrogant to ridicule the beliefs people who have tired to show you personal respect for right to your non-belief.
  
  But, hey, my favorite Star Wars character, Han Solo, was arrogant too. In addition to respecting your absolute right to be absolutely wrong, I respect your right to be arrogant!
  
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  mohitmisraposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Being right is mistaken by some for arrogance.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Wow - you are enlightened after all
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  BDazzlerposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Ah, THAT's why so many of my friends call me arrogant!!!
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  Zarm Nefilinposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Self-Evident:
  
  evident in itself without proof or demonstration; axiomatic.
  
  And you are arrogant to quote Pascal to Mark and give him a website listing "miracles" in an attempt to "prove" that which by definition is unprovable and therefore self evident, and then expect people to believe you have any measure of "humility" when you assert that the said thing alleged to be "self evident" requires "proof" of any sort (and yes that includes Pascal quotes and miracles).
  
  You totally contradict yourself, and this is not amusing and rather sad. You are so quick to list your experience as somehow indicative of "self evident truth" when something that is self evident by definition does not need proof or demonstration and is axiomatic in nature. You then berate Mark (this is childish) for indicating that his experience somehow doesn't count in face of your "self evident truth", and then have the arrogance (the irony is pathetic), to then claim Mark is arrogant when your sitting pretty thinking you know better than dictionary.com and every dictionary that has come out for the last one hundred years or more.
  
  If the existence of "God" or the "Divine" is self evident then why do you need to quote Pascal or a couple of websites concerning miracles? Afterall it is "self-evident" isn't it? If it is self evident as you claim then you don't need "proof" and you also don't need to "demonstrate" said self evidence of said "truth" by quoting Pascal and linking to miracles on a website. The reason you DO have to do these things is because you are inherently incapable of realizing how doing that and then claiming the truth is self evident, forms the basis for hypocrisy and obvious agenda that is your problem.
  
  If you bust out Aquinas and five proofs for "God" you will only be digging your hole deeper, because after all the truth is "self evident" now isn't it? If it is "self evident" then there is no proof possible or demonstration possible, either I see the self evident truth or it isn't self evident or I am refusing to acknowledge what is right in front of my eyes which means that Aquinas or Pascal or miracles on websites wouldn't help me to get the self evident truth. Or perhaps it isn't self evident and you have abrogated authority unto yourself to change definitions and obfuscate things for the sub-conscious purpose of a concealed agenda?
  
  If five people are sitting outside in a barren field in a circle and there is a big rock in the middle of them just laying there randomly then the rock's existence can be said to be "self evident", and no one would waste their time trying to convince a healthy someone who was like them staring at the rock too but refused to acknowledge the existence of the rock. THey would not try to waste their time "proving" or "demonstrating" such a self evident truth, much less claim it is somehow "self evident" and then proceed to try to either prove or demonstrate it's existence. If the presence of the rock is indeed self evident, given the variable of healthy individuals who are not impaired by things which would prohibit the perception of the rock they are all staring at, then such a presence does not need to be proven or demonstrated because the rock is by definition self evident.
  
  If anything is truly self evident then there is no revelation or explanation or proof or demonstration that is necessary by definition. Faith or a certain type of knowledge is required when a thing is NOT self evident. There is no faith required when a thing IS self evident. Which is why your actions don't line up with your words (in this case one set of text with another), because you wouldn't try to convince Mark if it was self evident. If it was self evident then Mark would have to make a choice to believe what is "right before his eyes" (to quote you), or not.
  
  Don't come in here trying to prove or demonstrate something that you allege to be self evident and then expect people not to think you are being completely contradictory (and thus absurdly hypocritical) from the outset as well as exhibiting childish arrogance by claiming others are exhibiting arrogance by not believing your "self evident" truths which you feel you must demonstrate or prove somehow (uh lol?).
  
  Your whole premise is busted, it must feel good to be "right" because it usually does feel good to bullsh1t people. It is pathetic how you cannot see that feeling good at the expense of others is morally reprehensible given the context of what your alleging to demonstrate/prove. Oh the re-packaged hedonism! I would argue that the underlying sub-conscious process that goes on in your mind to produce such things is anything but self evident, and that what makes the whole matter all the more tragic in a sense.
  
  Also, save yourself the trouble of telling me I don't know what I am talking about as I have been where you are before and I know how much pain I had to go through to try convincing someone of the existence of "God" and I also know how even when I didn't convince them I felt good afterward that I was doing "God's" will.
  
  If you want to argue for the existence of "God" then start from the agreed upon premise that "God's" existence is NOT self evident. Thus, you would start without talking out of both sides of your mouth, (whether his existence is self evident or not).
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  
  I absolutely have personal respect for your right to believe whatever you like.
  
  100% respect that it is your right to believe this stuff.
  
  I have total respect for your right to believe in a talking snake and magical healing on demand.
  
  It is your right to believe anything - no matter how silly.
  
  I completely and utterly, personally respect your rights to believe in anything you wish.
  
  Have I made it clear enough?
  
  But what I really wanted was the medical documentation showing the instantaneous remission that happened right after you prayed to Jesus to heal these people.
  
  Not the links you sent me. In fact, these links are the sort of thing you could have posted here, so I am posting them for everyone to be able to see the magic for themselves and make their own decisions without being arrogant:
  
  http://www.silverspringsresearch.com/Ea … eaven.html
  
  http://www.thehealedguy.com/healingstory.html
  
  Who knows, maybe the second one will even sell a few more $12 CDs?
  
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  mohitmisraposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Non ,no he believes there is no god - how can you call that a belief
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  mohitmisraposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  This is what is needed by Mark a near death experience which will make him see the light for himself and not ask others for proof as it is just too personal.
  Like I said before the only way is by finding your own proof.
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  daeemominposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  The mere fact that Islam came later doesn’t prove that it is a copy of the Catholic religion. Because Islam not only differs from catholic religion on major issues but also says that the Christianity is now present in its distorted form and Islam corrects their beliefs.
  The concept of God in Christianity
  God is three gods merged into one God. This one God is called a Trinity. However, to say that God is three is a blasphemy of the highest order. All three parts of the Trinity are "coequal" "co-eternal" and "the same substance." For this reason, this doctrine is described as "a mystery."
  The concept of God in Islam
  God is one God in the most basic, simple, and elementary meaning of the word. He has no children, no parents nor any equal. In Islam God is known by the name "Allah" and more than 99 other venerated names, such as "the Merciful," "the Gracious," "the All-Powerful," etc
  Jesus in Christianity
  The second member of the Triune God, the Son of the first part of the Triune God, and at the same time "fully" God in every respect.
  Jesus in Islam
  A very elect and highly esteemed messenger of God. No Muslim is a Muslim if he does not believe this
  The holy spirit in Christianity
  The third member of the Triune God, but also "fully" God in every respect.
  The holy spirit in Islam
  He is the angel Gabriel. The angel Gabriel is highly esteemed as the "Trustworthy Spirit"
  Mary the mother of Jesus in Christianity
  A chaste and pious human woman who gave birth to Jesus Christ, the second member of the Trinity, the Son of God, and at the same time "fully" God Almighty in every respect.
  Mary the mother of Jesus in Islam
  A chaste and pious human woman who was chosen, purified, and preferred over all of the women of creation to be the one to give birth to Gods elect messenger Jesus through the command of God without any father whatsoever.
  The word according to Christianity
  Part of God which was "with" God but also "fully" God and then became Jesus the Son of God.
  The word according to Islam
  God's command "Be!" which resulted in Jesus' conception in the womb of Mary without the need for a human father.
  The Bible according to Christianity
  Accepted as 100% the faultless word of God
  The Bible according to Islam
  Muslims believe in the books of the previous prophets including the "Torah" which was sent to Moses, the "Zaboor" (Psalms) which were given to David, the "Injeel" (Gospel) which was given to Jesus, and the Qur'an which was given to Muhammad However, Muslims are told that the previous scriptures were tampered with by mankind and the Bible should only be accepted in as far as it is confirmed by the Qur'an. It is to be treated with respect, however any statements which clearly oppose those of the Qur'an are to be rejected as the work of mankind.
  The crucifixion according to Christianity
  Jesus was given over to the Jews. He was spat on, cut, humiliated, kicked, striped, and finally hung up on the cross and killed very slowly and painfully.
  The crucifixion according to Islam
  Jesus was not forsaken to the Jews to be abused and killed, however, it was "made to appear so to them." God saved Jesus by raising him up unto Himself.
  The original sin according to Christianity
  All of humanity has inherited the sin of Adam. Only the death of the sinless offspring of God could erase this sin. No one is born clean, no matter if his life is only for a single day. Only baptism and faith in the death of Jesus can save one from this destiny
  The original sin according to Islam
  There is no such thing. Humanity is created by God destined for heaven unless they chose to disobey Him and refuse His mercy. God can very trivially and effortlessly forgive the sins of all of Humanity no matter if they were to fill the lofty regions of the sky. Such a matter would be trivial and inconsequential for Him since He has already done much more than that such as creating everything we can ever see, hear or imagine. He loves to bestow His mercy and forgiveness on His creation and rewards the most trivial acts with the most tremendous rewards. In order to achieve God's reward one must have faith as well as works
  The atonement according to Christianity
  
  The sin of Adam was so great that God could not forgive it by simply willing it, rather it was necessary to erase it with the blood of a sinless innocent god named Jesus who was also "fully" God
  The atonement according to Islam
  Adam "atoned" for his sin by saying "My Lord I have sinned and if you do not forgive me and have mercy upon me then I shall indeed have lost." So God forgave him. Similarly, all human beings have the door to forgiveness left open to them by God until the day they die. There are no intermediaries between mankind and God. If they sincerely repent to God, ask His forgiveness, and forsake their evil deeds before their hour comes then He shall forgive them and there is nothing more pleasing to Him than to forgive the sins of one who comes
  The path to salvation according to Christianity
  If you have faith in the atonement of Jesus for the sin of Adam which you have inherited then you shall be saved. You only need faith. No work is necessary.
  The path to salvation according to Islam
  If you have faith in God, believe in His messengers, and obey His commands then He shall multiply every single good deed that you do many, many times and erase your evil deeds, until on the Day of Judgment His mercy shall cause your good deeds to far outweigh your evil deeds and grant you passage into an ecstasy and Paradise so great that we can not even imagine it, to abide there eternally. In the Hereafter there is only reward and no work.
  
  With these vast differences how can Islam be a copy of Christianity? It only suggests that Islam has come to correct their beliefs.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry, did I say copy? I meant "false."
  
  Rather based on the same premis though - wouldn't you say?
  
  All it suggests to me is thatyou are both wrong.
  
  But I love to see people proving that there is no god by arguing over which version is correct.
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  daeemominposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  If you can’t read Arabic it is your fault. You are bound to rely of translation. Unlike Bible Quran is there in its original form. And Arabic language is not a dead language like Hebrew in which Bible was revealed.
  You have a reached to a conclusion before studying any religion or at least before studying Islam. You have never studied Islam from its original sources let alone the in depth study.
  God has made his message clear. It is available in the form of Islam. Now He wants to test you. That’s why he didn’t impose His way of life on the people. He has given them choice to test them.
  Your argument makes no sense. Ten men are having a ball. All of them claim that their ball is the best. Does it prove that there exists no ball? If any one draws this conclusion, we are forced to think on his mental condition.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  How about if ten men hold an invisible ball, and they all say I should listen to them and follow this invisible ball; give my life for it in fact?
  
  Does the ball exist then?
  
  It is my fault that god decided to only give the original word of His to people who speak Arabic? And He has made His message clear in a language I cannot understand? And this is a test?
  
  Interesting argument. I thought god was omnipotent? Therefore it is His fault.
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  mohitmisraposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  No one can force you to believe.I share my story who wants to believe will believe and who wants to mock it will mock it. I remember talking to this old man and telling him I am going to stop speaking on god as everyone laughs and calls me mad.He replied that he doesnt and I should be like the sun shining-who wants to come out will come and who wants to go in the shade will go in the shade-you just keep shining
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  daeemominposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  God is invisible. So are air, electricity and gravitational force. If you insist to see these things in order to believe in their existence, we simply show you these things. Therefore, you need to have something called brain to recognize these things.
  
  Yes, God is omnipotent. Nevertheless, it not necessary to reveal His message in every language that exists on this earth. If you want to know the true path, you should do some endeavor. You do not want go to the well in order to get water. You think that water should come to you.
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  mohitmisraposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Yes I agree atheist is just an excuse for ignorance ,no need to meditate or contemplate life seriously.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Take life seriously? An excuse for ignorance?
  
  Who says life needs to be taken seriously?
  
  You have been told that you are wrong by both a christian and a muslim, yet you persist in your ignorance.
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  mohitmisraposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Just trying to push you into serious meditation I will teach the Christian and Muslim about god.Am I ranked so highly in spiritualism and religious philosophy or are they?
  This review I believe is by a Christian.
  Timely and Prophetic considering the fact that it was written prior to these events
  "Ponder Awhile"
  Review by P.B.Jones www.new-millennium.co.uk
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Yet god came to you
  
  Why do you think I have made no endeavor? Did I say that?
  
  And when my 40 years of endeavor lead me to believe that all religions are lying, and there is no such thing as god,why is this not acceptable to you? because it does not agree with your findings?
  
  And why would this omnipotent being choose only to reveal His message in a minor language? Why not a language understood by everyone? Why only Arabic?
  
  Does not sound very omnipotent to me. More like a man talking.
  
  If you want to know the true path, you should throw off these silly beliefs and accept responsibility for yourself and your own actions.
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  daeemominposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  you dont believe in God simply because you did not see Him..isnt it?
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  No.
  
  What makes you think that?
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  daeemominposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Becuse it is the only reason because of which athiests deny to existence of God
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Really?
  
  You must not have ever read anything I have ever written. This is a good place to start:
  
  http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/3586
  
  Let me know when you have finished reading it, then come back and tell me what you know I say.
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  Eng.Mposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  and here we start again . lool
  .
  Mark
  if God exists (just suppose) , do you think he would choose the game or it would be up to us then to set the rules?
  
  I think we just need to follow the rules of nature and become part of it, don't you think?
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Coming from some one who denies evolution, that is entertaining to say the least.
  
  There you are - presented with almost-irrefutable evidence that biological evolution is an on-going, natural process and you prefer to say it does not happen because it does not fit your pre-existing beliefs that you culled from a 1600 year old book.
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  aka-djposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  There's no such thing as Evolution!
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  daeemominposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  evolution is not more than a theory. a theory with major flaws. deception to the humanity in the name of science
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  
  As opposed to your book which is the word of god and no deception involved
  
  As you obviously have no idea what the word "theory" means as used in scientific circles, please read this thread also:
  
  http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/7572
  
  My pleasure. It is in the original English also so no need for a translation.
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  sandra rinckposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I think there is just some confusion or a lot of clout in the term evolution. I think Eng.M, understand evolution and I think he also accepts it, however I don't think he accepts it without God.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  You obviously missed some of Eng M's posts about "design"
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  sandra rinckposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  yeah but on the same token, "design" was just a bad choice of words.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  No - Eng M believes that all living creatures were "designed" in their present form by god. No evolution was involved.
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  Eng.Mposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I have never said something like that
  
  feel free to quote me mr.'quote me'
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  
  OK - what do you believe then?
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  Eng.Mposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  simply
  
  somebody has given me life
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I mean about evolution and design.
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  Eng.Mposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  they both can not be without someone
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Without some one pulling the strings so to speak?
  
  A designer, no less?
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  Eng.Mposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  let me put it this way
  
  someone wanted life to happen
  
  it could be the spaghetti monster !
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  
  And how do you know this?
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  Eng.Mposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  just may be
  
  I just know that someone wanted life to happen
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  How?
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  Eng.Mposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  feeling
  I wouldn't know anything if he didn't want me to
  
  he made me know because I really wanted to
  
  you were right
  science alone doesn't lead to believing in God
  
  we need more
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  dingdongposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Your parents did
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  Eng.Mposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  did they choose how I look?
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  mohitmisraposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Offcourse they chose how you will look ,then when you grow up and move up and down on top of a woman you will also decide how your kids look-you are in total control of creation -a lot of effort is required in this creation No need for God
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  mohitmisraposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Whats the difference between nature, evolution or God? Its all Gods doing
  Like the finger saying I dont belong to the body.Or like you saying I am not part of this earth or universe.
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  mohitmisraposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  When does everyone get to know you?
  Why reveal yourself only to a few?
  
  It causes me so much pain,
  When I talk of you all in vain.
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  mohitmisraposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  
  please read-knowledge leads to understanding which leads to peace whic leads to love which is the basic fabric of this universe or God.
  http://hubpages.com/hub/Religionspoem
  All Religions guide to the same one God and not in opposite directions.
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  daeemominposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  religion is not weighed on the basis of its followers. religion is weighed on the basis of its teachings.poeple may claim to follow a religion but they may not be pracising it.
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  AEvansposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I definitely agree with you on this one.
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dingdongposted 16 years ago
daeemomin is a troll, and such lengthy posts make no sense
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  daeemominposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  it makes sense for those who are not nonsence.
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  VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Lengthy posts can never make sense... Our aim should be to make our point reach others. Longer posts will create impatience.. it is also not necessary. We can reproduce the same points in a precise, objective yet effective posts. My dear Mr.daeemomin takes much strain to emphasize his points. Please be precise. I appreciate his commitment to his religion. Goodluck.
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  dingdongposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Too late for an explanation You should know daeemomin is doing the same in other threads, especially in every initial post. Anyway, it's nice you tried it
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  VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Ms.dingdong, I am noticing it from the beginning. I thought it would change; but it continues. So I tried to point it out now. Nothing wrong in it. "Think before you act" is my policy.
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  dingdongposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't say anything against you, well you can understand if you re-read my messages. I'm just wondering if daeemomin would take time to see this and all. Am I right?
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VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 16 years ago
If teachings are good, people will follow. There is no need to differentiate between teachings and followers. Someone says that there is only one God... and he is.... Here lies the roots for religious hatred. Failure to recognise the existence of other religions will end in the enemity towards their own religion. Please do not compel other religions to create enemity towards your religion.. Everyone has a right to live in this world as also every religion.

The perfect answer to these religious troubles is Atheism... Mr. Mark Knowles, am I correct?
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  daeemominposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  The theory that if the teachings are good, people will follow is not totally correct. It happens that many times our conscious says that some thing is wrong but we don’t abstain from it. And many times we know that we should do some thing but we don’t do. Why?
  Quran answers this question. God says: “By the soul and the proportion and order given to it; and its inspiration as to its wrong and its right. Truly he succeeds who purifies it, and he fails that corrupts it. (Chapter91: verses 7-10)
  It is a universally accepted principle that man should tell the truth and abstain from telling lies. All religions have taught this principle. But how many people follow it? So it is not necessary that if the teachings are good, people will follow.
  
  Islam says that there is only one God. I find this reasonable and tell this to all. It doesn’t mean that I don’t recognize the existence of other religions. I de facto recognize their existence.
  The root of religious hatred is not telling the truth. Religious hatred comes when you want to impose your religion on others by force.
  Religion is for man and man is not for religion. So if you are convinced that a particular will solve humanity’s problems, call them towards it. But don’t impose any religion on other only because it is your religion.
  Atheism is not a part of answer. It is a part of the problem.
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  VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Most of Mr.daeemomin's comments are gems. He recognises all other religions... how sweet it is to hear? He also says that a religion should not be imposed on others. Telling the truth will in no way solve problelms, as long as religious madness persists. We are not concerned about those who do not follow the religious principles.. only those who accept and follow it.
  Atheism may be part of the problem.. but that will solve all other problems.
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  daeemominposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  What is religious madness? Is it telling the truth or inviting people to discuss which religion can solve their problems or which way of life is better.
  Do you think that spreading lies or believing in nonsense (atheism) will solve problems?
  How can say that atheism will solve problems? What does atheism mean? You believe in no God and you are not accountable to anyone so you do whatever the hell you want to do. This will rather create problems.
  Religion gives a sense of accountability. And this only can solve problems of humanity
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  mohitmisraposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Correct relgions are good and give one guidance as to how one should live life.In a survey its was shown that a religious person was more caring and charitable.An atheist believes he or she can do whatever they want.Yt their time will come it is not possible to force someone to these higher truths.
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VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 16 years ago
Sorry Mr.Mohitmisra and daeemomin, you have both misunderstood me. I am not an atheist.. I go to temple with my family. There is a traditional temple for our family in South India, which we consider as our "heritage" because it was built by my forefathers. Just pronouncing the word atheism does not mean that extent! If you accuse atheism as nonsense, atheists have many words.. please dont abuse anyone.. just we are discussing. Difference of opinion should not turn as a war of words. You both are trying to overpower detractors. My policy is "Live and let live". Are atheists not accountable to anyone? What about Government, rules, laws, customs, tradition, our parents, and above all our own conscience? Religion does not come in these things. I thought of China and Russia when writing about atheism. At least above the surface, these contradictions are not coming to the fore. But I remain a modest religious man, afraid of my conscience and my God !
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  mohitmisraposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Peace and cool you have family temple. I suppose you meant religious madness in the context of someone claiming his to be the only true religion and the only path to God and all other religions are false and do not lead one to God.
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  daeemominposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  What a pity!
  On one hand, you go to temple and on the other hand, you are endorsing atheism. Isn’t it a contradiction?
  This is because you are blindly aping you ancestors and you want to conceal this blindness in the guise of “heritage”. God has bestowed you with a piece of brain so that you can think. You are using this brain to think about all worldly matters. But when it comes to religion, you do not apply your reason and blindly follow the people who too didn’t use their mind in the matter of religion.
  
  Government, rules, laws, customs, traditions and society mean nothing to wrongdoers.
  Belief in God says that he is present everywhere. You cannot conceal anything from him. If you do any wrong, He will punish you.
  You talk of Government. America destroyed the whole Iraq and Afghanistan in pursuit of weapons of mass destruction, which never existed. Who is going to punish Mr. George Bush?
  If a person destroys the whole nation, what would be his punishment? Any Government or society cannot kill him more then one time.
  
  As for as human consciousness is concerned, it only suggests what is right and what is wrong. He is not accountable to his consciousness. We see scores of people with their consciousness dead, committing big crimes against humanity.
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VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 16 years ago
Thank you Mr.Mark Knowles.... for your justification of atheism. Let every opinion be accounted for here !
I uttered one word "religious madness" keeping in mind the happenings in my country. Intolerance.. what is its other name?
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  dingdongposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Religions are not responsible for the madness, but maybe indirectly a reason due to people don't understand the religions
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lionswhelpposted 16 years ago
I differ in that not all religions are good. Jesus warned we are to follow him because there will be many false religions including those that say they are of Christ. If I remember in history it was Hagar and Ismael who became the foundations for Islam. Isalm was started in the 6th ? century to counter the then Christian Religion of Catholicism. Any Arab who witnessed the bloody works of what was called Christianity would have been throughly turned off by it.

Abraham was not a Moslem, but Hagar and her son Ismael were visited by the angel and given blessings by God for there own good will and survival. Their children would become a thorn in the flesh to Abraham's decendants from Isaac and Jacob if they did not obey the God of Israel, Jesus Christ. All through the history of Israel we see in the Old Testament a people who were stiff necked and hardheaded and finally lost their blessings as a recognizable nation up to this day. The Jews or Judah have also existed but have been kicked around through persedcution because of their rejection of Jesus Christ. But it is through Araham's seed we shall all be saved and no other, Galatians 3:28-29. That "Seed" is Jesus the Christ in Hebrew he is Yahshua or Joshua the Savior of the World who gave his life for all of us. Cheer up he is coming back to save those that will accept His Commandments,not Buddah's nor Mohammids Revelations 22:7,12-13.

Though Moslems get a lot of heat from those that say they are Christains, it is because there are plenty of false churches that say they are Christian. Jesus Christ warned us. We are to warn everyone else Jew or Non- Christian for the return of the God of Mercy who will give us true peace on earth. If you expect to go to heaven you are on the wrong page. Yashua the Christ is coming here and will rule for 1,000 years and then Heaven will come down here after Christ has made God the Father's enemies converted Christians followers, See Revelations 19,20,21 & 22.

ChecK out my new Hub page from the Lionswhelp, It is about what is wrong with the Churches that claim to be followers of Yahshua the Christ.. Many are not, but their are a few that are. Are Moslems confused about Christainity, come and see why? Will Moslems continue to take the heat for 911 or was it inside job by non-Moslems and real Christian haters in disguise as Christians?
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  mohitmisraposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  How can the Prophet possibly side with only one religion-thats a joke. He is supposed to unite the religions and not create further hatred and lack of understanding than allready is.
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  mohitmisraposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Sikhism is founded on the teachings of the last great Prophet this earth witnessed namely Guru Nanak.Followers of Sikhism are Christians ,Muslims and Hindus who believe there is One God,the same for Christians, Muslims or Hindus. :)They worship God together how beautiful.
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  daeemominposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  If a person follows Sikhism, he is not a Muslim even if he claims to be a Muslim. Muslim is not by birth, it is by choice.
  Islam is the name some principles. You are a Hindu if you born in a Hindu family. You are Christian if you born in a Christian family. But you are not a Muslim even if you born in a Muslim family until and unless you accept Islamic creed with full content of mind and follow the principles that Islam gives. Islam is an ideology, a system of life, a solution of the problems of the whole mankind.
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  mohitmisraposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  So is the essence of Hinduism and Christianity -the solution-which is there is only One God however you wish to worship him is your choice.
  Also where Hinduism is considered or rather the Brahmin or knower of Brahma-anyone can become a Brahmin and it is not by birth but by merit-enlightenment. knower of Brahma or God.
  You do agree the same God is worshipped by all Christians, Muslims and Hindu so that makes these religions brother religions.Jevovah,Bhramha and Allah are exactly the same thing.
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  sandra rinckposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  now that is an enlightened thought!
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sandra rinckposted 16 years ago
my new title: I am a gnostic poly atheist unorthodoxed jew!
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  fun2hubposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  What do you mean by that?
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  But you still hate dolphins, right?
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  sandra rinckposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  oh yeah, I forgot. I meant, I am a gnostic poly atheist unorthodoxed dolphin hating jew! Thank you!
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  Mishaposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  What about child molesting?
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  dingdongposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Going very long, get an acronymn, Sandra
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  sandra rinckposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  hmm...how bout gpauj or maybe ugpaj. yeah! uno-pauj. It's catchy. *wink, wink*.
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  dingdongposted 16 years agoin reply to this
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Mishaposted 16 years ago
uno pauj? sounds like meno pause to me
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Mark Knowlesposted 16 years ago
Jewish Atheist Gnostic Poly Unorthodox Dolphin Hater

JAGPUDH

JAG for short.......

You do realize there are a number of contradictions in here though
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  sandra rinckposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  exactly!!!!
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dingdongposted 16 years ago
I'd like to see them added to dictionaries and wikipedia
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perfumerposted 16 years ago
Christianity as a Mystical Fact by Rudolph Steiner is a very good book to read.
http://books.google.com/books?id=mXYAAA … tical+fact
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BDazzlerposted 16 years ago
Mark:
Hmmm... Well, after reading many of your hubs, forum posts etc. I could conclude that Mark
1. Exists.
2. Is Human
3. Is an engaging and brilliant writer.
4. Is intelligent, rational, helpful and a vital member of this community.

Mark has a number of fans. Many of them also intelligent and helpful. A few however, are real jerks.

I choose to blame Mark for this. Further more, because Mark and his fans have written things I don't agree with this disturbs my pre-conceived notion about what an intelligent, engaging, rational, helpful vital human should be like. Furthermore many of the observations of and comments of his fans do not seem consistent with the things I've read that he posted.

Now, because he is so prolific, I have not read everything he has written, but that's OK, I've read enough to draw the following conclusions:

1. Mark probably does not really exist. Since I don't like what he says, he must not. His "self-evident" existence is not self-evident at all. I mean, I've never really seen him. I haven't heard his voice. His fans claim he exists, but really I've never had that experience.
2. Since he does not exist, he can't be a brilliant writer.
3. The hubs and forum posts that appear to be engaging and brilliant are probably just random cosmic rays changing the states of bits on the hub pages computer system. Also, some of the fans of these random cosmic rays probably make up some posts too, primarily to feed their own delusions.
4. The intelligence, rationality, helpfulness etc. that I have personally benefited from should not be attributed to Mark at all, but are instead, the results of my projection of my own personal brilliance on the random cosmic rays that result in what simply appear to be helpful writing.

Furthermore, anybody who actually believes that these random cosmic rays are actually brilliant and rational thought out articles must be childish and silly.

Now THAT WAS childish and silly (Deliberately so). But if I honestly not only held that belief but tried to promote it, it would be quite arrogant.

If you really want the actual medical documentation, I told you, put the effort into contacting the individuals who have them, these are people I know.. I told you I would help with that. Email me your address and I'll send you the DVDs as many as you want.

Now, since you don't really exist ... I am silly and childish for engaging with you
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Nothing "wrong" with childish and silly
  
  Thank you for the "compliments," but there is something I do not understand. Although you have done it in jest, I have had this sort of argument placed in front of me in the past. Usually from some one who believes in a god, and usually coming to the conclusion that I do not exist, therefore it is unreasonable/arrogant/self-centered/whatever of me to reach the conclusion that god does not, because I can only have used the self same logic they have demonstrated. There are no other possible ways to come to this so "self evident" falsehood.
  
  I feel obliged to point out one inherent flaw in the whole thing.
  
  The things that you have read of mine that have led you to the conclusion that I do not exist were actually written by me.
  
  There is not an army of people out there claiming that I spoke to them and them alone, and that what I said to them countermands anything I may have said to some one else who has twisted what I said into an aberration. They have the true word of Mark and any other is lying for their own ends.
  
  And I like to think that the things I have written actually make sense, and do not require a leap of faith to understand.
  
  I am not god
  
  But, if you have some one approach you and tell you that I told them to tell you to do something, you can now contact me directly to see if it is true or not.
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  BDazzlerposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  As you said, it was in jest. And I appreciate that there is nothing wrong with childish and silly. It is certainly fun!
  reply report

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