Is a baby a sinner?

1. 53

   haj3396posted 11 years ago

   No!!!!!!! a baby is born in a world of sin and as they Grow the are shaped in obedience are disobedience. But, when they are born they are sin free. Therefore if a baby die as a baby they are saved. a sinner is one who transgress the Law of God. what about what they receive from their parents. A baby only receive the penalty of death and stress

   replyreport
   1. 60

      Jesus was a hippyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Sin is a man made concept. If there is no god then there is no sin.
      
      Right and wrong is subjective. Saudi's think it is a sin for women to dance in public based on religious text.
      
      Of course, people only follow the texts that they want to follow. Westerners seem to go to any length to claim that they dont have to follow the old testament laws that tell you to kill because they think it is wrong.
      
      Go to another country where killing is not considered wrong, and they will embrace those laws.
      
      Sin is a man made concept and as a result, what constitutes a sin, is decided by man.

      replyreport
      1. 53

         haj3396posted 11 years agoin reply to this

         How is it so ease for you to believe some men and not believe God. Everything is a man made concept, but, question is, is every made concept true or untrue. I believe the man made concept of God is true, and time will answer weather I am right or not.

         replyreport
         1. 60

            Jesus was a hippyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            What men do I believe? I dont believe any of the men that told me god is real.

            replyreport
            1. 53

               haj3396posted 11 years agoin reply to this

               yourself! How is that working for you

               replyreport
               1. 60

                  Paul Wingertposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Sins and religion are totally man made. As the baby grows into a child, and it's told stories of Biblical sin and all the BS that goes along with it often enough, that child child will grow into adulthood believing it without question.

                  replyreport
   2. 58

      A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      In our world, 3 out of every 4 people have religion. Interesting observation, don't you think?

      replyreport
      1. 61

         rbe0posted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Speak for yourself.
         
         In my world everyone has a religion whether they know it or not.

         replyreport
         1. 58

            A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            What world are you from?

            replyreport
      2. 53

         haj3396posted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Yes, I agree with you, but, one out of thought 4 are true, Question is which one?

         replyreport
      3. 81

         brittanytoddposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Everyone has a religion as it is defined as a set of cultural values, belief systems, world views and social norms.

         replyreport
         1. 58

            A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            You may want to actually consult a dictionary to alleviate your misunderstanding.

            replyreport
            1. 81

               brittanytoddposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               I did: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/religion
               
               Even believing in evolution and no God is religion.

               replyreport
               1. 60

                  Jesus was a hippyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  If you look up the etymology of the word "religion" it originally meant belief in a god or superhuman power.
                  
                  It's funny how the meaning of words change over time.

                  replyreport
               2. 58

                  A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  I did not see any correlation to your claims and that definition. Please explain.

                  replyreport
               3. 60

                  Jesus was a hippyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  For the record, the defnition you provided said a set of beliefs concerning the cause of the universe.
                  
                  Evolution is about life and notthe universe so no, believing in evolution is not a religion.

                  replyreport
                  1. 81

                     brittanytoddposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Of course.  I guess I wasn't clear in my wording, but I am saying that however you believe the universe was created (naturally or supernaturally), that is your religion, or set of beliefs regarding the origin or the universe.  (Sorry, I am a bit under the weather today and am not able to explain myself as clearly as I want to.)

                     replyreport
                     1. 49

                        Jesus isnt happyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        I dont know how the universe came to be. I have no belief on the topic whatsoever.

                        replyreport
                        1. 53

                           haj3396posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           Therefore, you have a 50/50 choice to make, God or man

                           replyreport
   3. 60

      bulletproofballooposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      As a Christian you have to believe in the origin of sin. In the Garden of Eden all Adam knew was what God had told him. He had no knowledge apart from God. In fact, the one thing Adam was commanded not to do was to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. God wants to be our only source of knowledge. Once Adam and Eve ate of the tree, they had knowledge apart from God. They had no need for God, and would not choose God, because "they now know better." At the moment they ate the fruit, they became dead to God. Dead in the sense that, a tree is a living thing but cannot communicate or hear. Sin is knowledge apart from God. Therefore, a baby is technically a sinner at birth. Now, is there mercy for a human up until a certain age? That is a different question.

      replyreport
      1. 0

         Deborah Sextonposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         *******
         
         Nonsense

         replyreport
         1. 60

            Paul Wingertposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Cute story, but not buying it.

            replyreport
2. 64

   gvannorman150posted 11 years ago

   I am not one to get into a huge discussion on religious beliefs.  However I believe that a baby is born clean.  Maybe this is where the term "born again" comes from.  You have to be able to make decisions for yourself before you can be blamed for sin. 
   
   What age do you start deciding on what your going to do?  Did you know what you did wrong was considered a sin?  These are things that you need to know before you can consider anyone a sinner. 
   
   My answers are age 8 to 10.  This is where children are starting to understand right and wrong.  They also decide to either do the right thing or the wrong thing.  No, you do not know everything at this age, but you essentially do understand the difference between right and wrong. 
   
   Also when you get baptized you are washing all your prior sins away.  Then you are essentially "born again".  You are clean of all sins and in a biblical sense your perfect.  Then you sin again.  We all do, so this is where repentance helps us stay on the good side of god.

   replyreport
   1. 53

      haj3396posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      ThanksI needed that.

      replyreport
3. 61

   rbe0posted 11 years ago

   The title of this thread disgusts me. I have reported you for hatespeech against babies.

   replyreport
4. 61

   Kyle Payneposted 11 years ago

   This topic is so protractive, the amount of information you would have to understand it is absolutely staggering.

   replyreport
5. 61

   paoloumaliposted 11 years ago

   If you are a Christian, then I understand you have to believe what your preachers are preaching. Every man is a sinner. So is a baby.

   replyreport
   1. 75

      Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Babies are born with two natural fears, Fear of falling and loud sounds
      
      when they learn how to fear God, at that moment, they begin to sin.

      replyreport
   2. 53

      haj3396posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I am A christian, but I do not think a baby is a sinner. Christian use Psalms 51:5
      Behold, I was shapen IN iniquity; and IN SIN did my mother conceive me. I done think this mean what christian say it mean. I was born in a truck, but that done make me a truck. I believe it's saying that everyone was born in a world of sin and as they grow, they come to the age of make chooses, shapen in iniquity

      replyreport
      1. 75

         Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Why don't they call it adjusting mistakes rather sin, which holds onto quilt and regrets for a whole lifetime

         replyreport
      2. 0

         Deborah Sextonposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         ****************
         
         I agree

         replyreport
6. 83

   psycheskinnerposted 11 years ago

   According to the doctrine of original sin, yes. If you want to believe in the bible and not original sin, that will take some fancy foot work. Because without original sin people could go to heaven without ticking any doctrinal boxes.
   
   According to common sense, no.

   replyreport
   1. 53

      haj3396posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      when did sin begin, in heaven, so sin was not of man first.

      replyreport
7. 81

   MickeySrposted 11 years ago

   An infant is not a sinner - a sinner, someone who sins, is a sinner - but, so far, every baby ever born has eventually sinned (with one notable exception). We do what it is our nature to do . . . too many who are eager to gobble-up any and every dried-up old accusation against Christianity think of sin and salvation in terms of some set of religious rules that a brutal god scrutinizes our lives with - this is why they continuously portray Christians as emotionally weak and intellectually hindered people who have been indoctrinated to believe they better do whatever they need to do to escape an eternal hell. This is their screwy conception of what Christianity is and teaches.
   
   The historic Biblical faith sets forth that God is divine and man is mortal, that God is flawlessly perfect love and man is corrupted fearful selfishness - Jesus didn't tell Nicodemus that he better be really good or he'll be punished throughout eternity, He told him he needed to be born of the Spirit. An infant is not a sinner until he sins, but every baby will sin because sin is that which falls short of God's perfect holiness and, as humans, we all fall short of God's perfect holiness. That is why we need a Savior, that is why Jesus came. Jesus didn't come to teach us the way or to demonstrate how to be really, really good, etc - Jesus came to provide the way and to give us the means to be really, really good.
   
   God is the infinite, eternal Spirit and we are material creatures - we need to be transformed if we are to be united to Him forever, and He provides that transformation by giving us His very own Spirit through the atonement of Jesus. It's like the old racism of the 60's; I can't tell you how many people told me (way back when) that the reason they hated Blacks is because a Black person beat-up their sister or took their father's job, etc . . . in a similar manner so many who detest Christianity are again and again people who were raised in an abusive 'Christian' home or went to a hypocritical 'Christian' church, etc. They talk about sin and hell and judgment, etc, while historic Biblical Christianity talks about unity with God through Jesus and the perfect bond of that unity, love. They endlessly argue against a 'Christianity' they've concocted in their mind (and/or picked-up from others) and then fault Christians for . . . you see it in these forums daily.

   replyreport
   1. 60

      tlmcgaa70posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      amen MickeySr

      replyreport
8. 0

   Deborah Sextonposted 11 years ago

   **************************
   
   A baby is absolutely not a sinner

   replyreport
   1. 53

      haj3396posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      thank you!!!!

      replyreport
9. 79

   sarahperkinsposted 11 years ago

   Yes, babies are sinners. We are all born sinners. Babies however can be forgiven and accepted into the kingdom if they pass away as infants. This is because they are too young to understand their faults and are forgiven.

   replyreport
   1. 53

      haj3396posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      A sinner is one who sins, when have a baby sinned, To know to do right and do it not is sin. Do a baby know, when they are doing wrong?

      replyreport
   2. 0

      Deborah Sextonposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      ***********************
      
      Ridiculous

      replyreport
      1. 79

         sarahperkinsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         There are three types of sin:
         Inherent sin- sin that we are born with or inherited because we are a fallen race
         Imputed sin- sin that we are accountable for because of Adam
         Personal sin- sin that we commit on our own
         
         I am saying that babies are unfortunately subjected to the first two. Most people think that all sin is personal sin. This is not the case. Babies are not responsible personal sin because they do not realize their actions. However, we are born with Inherent and Imputed sin because of who we are and because we are of a fallen race.

         replyreport
         1. 0

            Deborah Sextonposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            *********
            
            Give proof with scripture.
            
            We are born into sin, means sin is all around us, and we have the capacity to sin, but we don't have to.
            
            All sin is chosen acts and personal sin.

            replyreport
         2. 53

            haj3396posted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Ezekiel 18-20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. The only way a person receive sin from there, parents is they watch them and when they come to understanding they do what their parents do.

            replyreport
10. 0

    Mtbailzposted 11 years ago

    I don't know how anyone can look at a baby and jump to the conclusion that they are sinners. It's a preposterous idea that should have no influence in a modern society. Leave it the hyper-religious to cling to a doctrine made up by ancient men who had no scientific or factual understanding of the universe.

    replyreport
    1. 75

       Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Yes, lost in space wail their feet are still on the ground.

       replyreport
11. 74

    Jeff Berndtposted 11 years ago

    A baby is about the most selfish creature you could ever hope to meet.
    
    Of course he is; he can't possible satisfy his own hunger, ease his own pain, warm himself when he's cold, soothe himself to sleep, etc. Further, he can't communicate beyond a very simple "I'm okay" or "I'm upset about something" or "I'm really really upset about something."
    
    Is selfishness a sin? If so, a baby is a sinner.
    
    Do we make allowances for people who don't know any better? If so, then a baby is not a sinner.
    
    I think we do make allowances for people who don't know any better. Even in Christian belief, Adam and Eve weren't sinners before they ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge, right? But once they ate, they became sinners.
    
    We don't know if Adam or Eve did anything we'd disapprove of before they ate the apple, but it doesn't matter, since they didn't know any better, did they? If you know better, and do it anyway, that's sin, right?
    
    I think "original sin" is a load of garbage used by clever opportunists to scare and control people.

    replyreport
    1. 53

       haj3396posted 11 years agoin reply to this

       A baby do not know they are selfish, to know and do it not that sin.

       replyreport
12. 80

    phillippeengelposted 11 years ago

    Only nothing can there be no sinners.

    replyreport
13. 87

    lorenmurciaposted 11 years ago

    How can a baby, who can't even consciously think yet, be a sinner? We become sinners because of sinful acts or thoughts.

    replyreport
    1. 75

       Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       The cry too much, that must be a sin.

       replyreport
14. 83

    psycheskinnerposted 11 years ago

    Interesting how many Christians think the bible is wrong, the church is wrong and Jesus died for no reason.  Looks to me like either ignorance of one's own religion or hypocrisy.
    
    Original sin is a cornerstone of every major Christian denomination. And yet a whole heap of Christians either don't know or don't care because apparently they know better than their own holy book.
    
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_sin

    replyreport
    1. 0

       Deborah Sextonposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       **************
       
       According to scripture, we are born into sin...meaning it is all around us when we are born.
       When we get old enough we have the capacity to sin. It doesn't mean we have to.
       
       Looks like you need to study the word, because babies cannot sin.

       replyreport
       1. 83

          psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          The fact that inherited sin is ridiculous is beside the point.  Belief that sin can be inherited is doctrinal.  Thus, via original sin, you can be (are) a sinner without having personally sinned. Just as you can be (are) saved by Jesus despite being born after he was crucified.
          
          OP also said "are born they are sin free", so use of the active phrase "sinner" is not crucial to his point anyway.  Under Christian doctrine this ("born sin free") is absolutely untrue. So a Christian who wished to assert this would need to make a theological case for it.

          replyreport
          1. 0

             Deborah Sextonposted 11 years agoin reply to this

             ***********
             
             Prove your statements with scripture

             replyreport
             1. 83

                psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                You haven't read the Bible?
                
                Romans 5: 12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
                
                Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
                
                Interpretation confirming the notion of original sin within your tradition can no doubt be provided by your priest/preacher/pastor.  It is a pretty basic doctrine.
                
                If you want to interpret the Bible differently, more power to you.  But the head of the major Christian sects all accept that we are born in a state of ancestral sin.

                replyreport
                1. 0

                   Deborah Sextonposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                   *********
                   
                   I've read the Bible many times. Also in Greek and Hebrew.
                   
                   But I might have known you would quote Paul.
                   
                   Now give me one where Yahshua (Jesus to you) or one of the Real 12 Apostles taught it.
                   
                   But even Paul's verses that you quoted, does not show that baby's sin. Sorry better do some studying before teaching erroneous info.

                   replyreport
                   1. 75

                      Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                      Maybe you two are both right, since the bible is so contradicting

                      replyreport
    2. 53

       haj3396posted 11 years agoin reply to this

       But the Bible do not say that a baby is a sinner, what the Bible states is to sin we have to transgress the Law of God, it tell us to know to do right and do it not is sin, and all have sinned. but if you take what the Bible states, then you can clearly see that a baby is not a sinner, because they would have to know, and a baby done know.

       replyreport
       1. 83

          psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          I think you need to read the bible again.  It says we re all born in a state of sin ('original sin').  I linked to the direct quotes in previous posts.

          replyreport
15. 57

    prettydarkhorseposted 11 years ago

    no, different developmental psychologists pegged the age of discernment at different ages
    
    what is the definition of sin?

    replyreport
    1. 53

       haj3396posted 11 years agoin reply to this

       The transgress of the Law.

       replyreport
16. 60

    knolyourselfposted 11 years ago

    A sinfull baby is original sin, meaning having no legitimate worth, other than by conforming to superior authority external to the self.

    replyreport
17. 83

    psycheskinnerposted 11 years ago

    I am reporting doctrine, as explicitly followed by the world's major Christian churches. I quoted the exact passages most of them explicitly use to justify their doctrine.  Like I said, nothing stops you from disagreeing, but under most traditions your position would be heresy (specifically, the heresy of Pelagius, or Pelagainism).  It cannot be represented as normative of "Christianity".
    
    Keep in mind, I don't give a fig either way.  I just find religion interesting, especially the idea of inherited sin.

    replyreport
    1. 0

       Deborah Sextonposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       ***************
       
       I am not Christian. To them everyone is bad except the Christians.
       
       I am Jewish so is my husband.  It's not our doctrine.
       
       Oh and look, the Hebrews wrote the Bible.

       replyreport
       1. 83

          psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Well then, why are you so upset about the Biblical basis for the Christian belief that babies are born in a state of sin?  It is what it is.  My comments were purely directed at stating that original sin is a normative Christian belief.

          replyreport
          1. 0

             Deborah Sextonposted 11 years agoin reply to this

             ***************
             
             First of all, this thread is titled "Is a baby a sinner" Not "Do Christians think a baby is a sinner"
             So this thread is open to all, even the Jewish. Even if it was just for Christians I could still state my opinion.
             
             Second, I am not upset. If I were I would be yelling with Capitol letters, but I don't like to act like that. I am a strong debater though.

             replyreport
18. 69

    daskittlez69posted 11 years ago

    Many Christians who profess to believe in the doctrine of original sin do not know what it teaches. Even more Christians are ignorant of its history and origin: that it had its roots in a heathen philosophy, that it has evolved, and that it was made a dogma of the Roman Catholic Church in the fifth century A.D., primarily by Augustine.  Not to mention that original sin is really a theory. The 3 main theories are The Augustinian Theory, The Federal Theory, and The Theory of Mediate Imputation.

    replyreport
19. 83

    psycheskinnerposted 11 years ago

    You asked me specifically to back up my point about Christianity with reference to the scripture. It would have helped if you had understood what my point was before doing that.  Even a cursory reading would have shown that I am not, myself, Christian and was making a point specifically about normative Christianity--not some putative absolute truth. And I would argue that "Sorry better do some studying before teaching erroneous info" is not an emotively neutral statement.
    
    I give up. Apparently your form of debate doesn't include taking it up from the point it had reached when you engaged with it.

    replyreport
    1. 0

       Deborah Sextonposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       **********
       
       I thought you were Christian because you never explained you weren't
       
       I see you get confused and easily upset. I won't discuss the Jewish view of the Bible with you again.

       replyreport
20. 60

    Druid Dudeposted 11 years ago

    Evidently sex is dirty and anything that comes of it is tainted. Actually, Jesus said that they were his little angels, and that no one should harm them in any way. This was when he was asked who was the greatest in heaven. He said that anyone who harms a child would be better off never being born. Which raises the question...was God incapable of preventing people from being born? Personally, I think the Big Guy has alotta mental issues. What we have here is an Almighty that is desperately trying to figure himself out...through us.

    replyreport
    1. 0

       Deborah Sextonposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       *************
       
       Yes, according to scripture, he said we should become like them. They are sinless, full of trust and love.
       
       
       Matthew 18:3-5
       And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
       
       4. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
       
       5. And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.

       replyreport
       1. 61

          mischeviousmeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          When Jesus said we should be as children, I think he was trying to say to look at it with a simple mind. Not so much to do as adults do and over complicate it. Plus people should not hurt children vfor they are divine and know nothing of suffering. That is until some a-hole comes along and does something to ruin it.

          replyreport
21. 60

    knolyourselfposted 11 years ago

    Why baptism then?

    replyreport