Does human reason tell us the only thing we should believe?

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   Kyle Payneposted 11 years ago

   Does human reason tell us the only thing we should believe?

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      paarsurreyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Yes to some extent.

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   knolyourselfposted 11 years ago

   The human body tells you the only thing you should and must believe. After that human reason can tell you anything.

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      mischeviousmeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      There it is.

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      Kyle Payneposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Could you expand on that a little bit more, maybe by example, for sake of my understanding you?

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         mischeviousmeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         In trying to understand, the word become of no use. It is not in the words, it is in the meaning and what ever you think it means, is an illusion.

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            Kyle Payneposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            By an illusion do you mean an erroneous mental representation?

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               mischeviousmeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Yes. "I" is what is the problem. If we can live now, the past becomes unimportant and the "I" gets left behind, clinging to a past that does not exist.

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                  Kyle Payneposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  I do not understand how that could even be fuctionable.

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                     mischeviousmeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     It doesn't have to be and it will not be if the mind tries to grasp at meaning. The words are words and the meaning is only as deep as you think it is.

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   Emile Rposted 11 years ago

   Human reason kind of negates the idea of blind faith. Doesn't it?

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      autumn18posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I would think so.

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      mischeviousmeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      It can if we let it. The only true "truth" is now. There is no other truth than the experience. What ever the mind decides it is, is an illusion.

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         Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         But the now is an illusion. Where's the truth?

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      Kyle Payneposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Yes it does.

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   knolyourselfposted 11 years ago

   If someone points a gun at you and says your money or your life,
   you can believe the gun will kill you, or not and reason he won't kill me. Which will you believe your body or your mind?

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      Kyle Payneposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      The body is merely a representation of the will of the mind, the recognizable character of a person, and the sustainer of the ability to communicate with other minds.

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         mischeviousmeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         If one is willing to kill for money, then they probably need it more than I do and I am glad to help them.

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         Pcunixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Nope.  Your body is quite real.  You'll learn  more about that as you get older

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   Pcunixposted 11 years ago

   Absolutely not.   There are some decisions that can only be made by emotion, either because they have no facts to rationalize or because there are so many factors that reasoning is impossible.

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      Kyle Payneposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Interesting, do you have an example of what you are speaking of?

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         Pcunixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         There are hundreds.   For the "too much", we even have evidence from brain damage where the emotional response has een lost - these poor people can't decide anything of any complexity - they just dither back and forth.
         
         For the more direct, think of deciding whether you like someone or trust them or love them.  Those are emotional decisions.

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            Kyle Payneposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Just curious, do you believe that faith should be disregarded in light of the fact that we can make decisions based on reason and emotion?

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               mischeviousmeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               If we make them based on those terms, then we have missed the boat completely and the illusion will continue.

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                  Kyle Payneposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  What terms should decisions be made on then, if it is not reason and emotion?

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                     mischeviousmeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     That we can no more control now as we can a sneeze. The world does as it does and we are a part of it, like it or not.

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                        Kyle Payneposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        We can control the now.

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                           mischeviousmeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           We can do all sorts of things, that does not mean we are in control.

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                              Kyle Payneposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              Doing something exhibits control in almost all cases.

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                                 mischeviousmeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                 Doing is a mastery of the self, not the world.

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                                    Kyle Payneposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                    You are correct. So when I "do" I exhibit control over myself. Which in turn affects the now, always but not always in a massive way.

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                                       mischeviousmeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                       You're getting it now.

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                                       Kyle Payneposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                       So you just admitted you were wrong, we can control the now.

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                                          mischeviousmeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                          I don't know anything. I'm just saying that what you see is a mirror of your mind and it is illusion to think you can control it in any way, other than doing things.

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                                       Kyle Payneposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                       But doing things can exhibit little control, but it can also exhibit massive amounts of control, so you can control it in that way.

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                                          mischeviousmeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                          If you think you can, you cannot. If you know you can, you will not.

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                                       Kyle Payneposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                       That is just a bunch of folderol.

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               Pcunixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Faith can be comforting to those who need it.  It's not real, but that doesn't mean it has no value.

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                  mischeviousmeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Yes.  But the value is intrinsic and is part of the individual journey. It won't make now any easier either. Now is just now and I cannot avoid it.

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                  Druid Dudeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  A pill can be coforting to those who need it. It's not real, but that doesn't mean it has no value.

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                     mischeviousmeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Though it won't stop the pain when it becomes real. The future is not real and we all need to understand that, the things we do now are only in time with now. The future is an instant that has yet to be revealed.

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                        Pcunixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        Not true.  Placebos can cure pain and disease sometimes.
                        
                        The future is dependent on the past.  Cause and effect.

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                           mischeviousmeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           Causality is what's holding us back from now. We tend to see the future as a result of the past, when in truth it actually results in our current situation, not the future.

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                              Pcunixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              Silly pedantry.  The future depends on the past exactly as the present did when it was the future.

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                           lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           Faith is far more potent than placebos. In fact, placebos may seem to work because of faith.
                           
                           Most things in the universe depend upon natural causes, but faith trumps all such cause and effect. Creation sets the foundation upon which cause and effect take place.

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                              Pcunixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              Faith trumps nothing.  Faith can't move mountains, can't change cause and affect, can't do anything except comfort those who need it.  Comfort isn't a bad thing at all, so I'm not against faith, but that's all it is good for.

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            Druid Dudeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Good example. Sometimes the brain can tell you something is, reason can tell it isn't. Sometimes reason can escape you, too. Another thing about reason, is that it developed and continues on.

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               Kyle Payneposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               It was a extremely useful and helpful example.

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                  Druid Dudeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  I think that controlling our now is an illusion. The illusion is fed by the world around us. To ride a wave, you don't control the wave. You become one with it. Control, if we have it at all, is momentary.

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