This question was pulled as a question, so I'm submitting it in the forum instead:
If, with his dying breath, Hitler had asked Jesus for forgiveness, could he have been admitted to Heaven?
wow. heaven is a myth first of all so i guess the answer is no. one of the biggest problems with humans is this need to forgive. i forgive no one who has harmed me or anyone i care about. if people did this , others would think twice about doing others wrong.
Yes, Hitler would be forgiven and admitted to heaven. I, on the other hand, who have committed no atrocities, will have to spend eternity in hell, because I don't believe in Jesus or God.
Makes perfect sense!
God is God. Religion is man-made. Therefore, it depends on which religion you ask; not to mention which religious person you ask. And since their many different responses will be based on faith and rote and not logic; who cares what their answers are?
We need to start more relevant threads here! As an example, I would really like to know if Snooki snores or not.
Begging forgiveness as is commonly done by those who are convinced by religion is not even close to True repentance....
These ask but never receives because their Faith which is a lacking thereof makes it impossible for them to believe it is done.
True repentance come when one come to the understanding that he can only do what he must...and that one ask and receives and none is excluded.
We do not deserve Gods forgiveness and there is nothing we can do to earn it. Yet God freely offers a way to be forgiven through faith in Jesus Christ,s death on the gross. And when God forgives us he chooses to forget our sins.
``Their sins and lawless deeds i will remember no more `` (Hebrews10:17)
Jesus prayed on the Gross `` father forgive them for they do not know what they do``
Did you mean to say Cross rather the Gross
When I saw the movie- The Passion of Christ , the Cross was too Gross for me
I believe so, according to the Bible, IF he was willing to give his heart to Jesus and was sincerely repentant. The Apostle Paul, remember, was a murderer before Jesus revealed Himself to him.
What the Romans?
Bad judgment call, Jesus did not need that, so report it to amnesty international
Jesus being nailed to a cross is supposed to be the greatest gift to mankind. I need that, like I need holes in my wrists
@Castlepaloma, wow! You miss the point of it all. The holes were not the gift.
Giving up the earthly self was symbolic for what we need to do. We need to give up the ego (false) self in order to allow the spiritual (true) self to awaken.
His sacrifice makes it easier for us to do this otherwise very difficult task. Only Gautama Siddhartha and a few others were able to free themselves.
It's not about these bodies; it's about the immortal soul (true self) within.
What's the different between millions of other people sacrificing their lives for the greater good than Jesus. The jellyfish has lived a 650 million years immortal life span , why not bow down to the greater success story of the Jelly fish rather than the Jesus fish
The limits of forgiveness really varies from each person. Some people are capable of forgiving almost anything, while others can't seem to let go.
As far as religion goes, I can't say I'm an expert, but I do know there's such a thing as repent. Therefore, technically Hitler could, in theory, get to Heaven. However, assuming there is one, I hope he never did, as he was truly one of the biggest monsters in history. Like Osama Bin Laden, Hitler never faced the punishment that he truly deserved if you ask me.
Nothing like the ultimate insane, tortuous existence that never ends that could cure Hitler. RIght, Yes , no or maybe for a little burning for 50 years or so... .don't know or maybe the Christian know.
I know my ex wife and she is a megalomania too, she would never repent to anyone because she has her own smoke screen of an other faith
Well Castlepaloma, I think the one thing we can both agree on is that men like Hitler never faced the true justice they deserved in their life time; which is kind of sad if you ask me. I think the same can be said of Osama Bin Laden, as I personally feel the whole assassination by our military was staged, to make voters happy. Of course, I can't prove any of this, so what do I know?
Just don't regret the pass, there is nothing we can do about any of it now, just don't regret the future
Let religious people do hell and dwell in the pass
Dwelling in the past and living for uncertain futures, only further confounds our minds. We are blinded by our desire to seek from without, that which exists within and is but a reflection of one's own mind.
you mean "past?" I don't really dwell in the past, as there's really no point in it; especially since you can't do anything to change the past. The only thing you can really do is learn from your mistakes, and make sure it never happens again in future generations, as that's the only thing anyone can do.
I cannot presume to speak for Jesus, but Bible scripture teaches that if Hitler asked Jesus for forgiveness, in sincere repentance, Jesus would forgive him.
So I don't repent wail never harming anyone in my life and I get the ultimate insane, tortuous existence that never ends
That makes perfect sense
Because your God loves me as he loves the billions of others non believers too
Are you sure your lord is not LORD SATAN?
So you are living in your own self-righteousness. Are you as righteous as God? Are you really the judge of that?
Are you? How can one not be as righteous as God, without being somewhat self-righteous? To me God is no more than a perception of one's own consciousness.
If you read the Bible, you will discover that man's righteousness is as filthy rags compared to the righteousness of God. The Pharisees were self rioghteousness. Jesus said that your righteousnessmust exceed theirs.
The Christian believer is given the righteousness of Christ according to Paul in 2nd Cor.
"I and the father are one". The father is of the self, as the self is of the father. By father I mean mind.
It is more than mind as you point out in your next post. It is Spirit. Paul said that we should put on the mind of Christ. You have cme close. However, there are many spiriots that rule the mind. Be careful. Demons are also present .
"I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.." ~~ Hitler
Jesus asid you forgive your brother 7 times 70. That would indicate that He forgives us every time we ask. However, one must repent before he is forgiven. Every act that any person does is right or wrong in his or her own mind. If someone beats you and believes he has done the right thing, there is no need for him to to ask for forgiveness.
And example is given in Matt. 18(?) when Jesus says that if your brother offend you, tell him alone. If he doesn't repent, take it to the church. If he church says he has offended you, and he doesn't repent, do not have anything to do with him.
Forgiveness is to establish or restablish a relatiionship with the Lord Jesus Christ. Or with friends depending on the relationship in which the wrong has been comitted.
Therfore, Jesus would forgive Hitler if Hitler was really repentent and thought his actions were wrong. All sins are washed away.
If heaven exists, the house doesn't belong to anyone here. To attempt to decide who gets a room and who doesn't is coveting something that doesn't belong to any of us. Is that right?
Anyway, it would actually fall into the category of none of my business. The guy was certainly responsible for inflicting a great deal of pain and misery in this reality. He deserved to die in this reality.I couldn't judge how that effects anything else.
Forgiveness, religion and heaven have nothing to do with each other.
forgiveness has nothing to do with the imposition of some set or other of morals, which is religion. Or the idea of reward for doing something that is heaven.
"To err is human, to forgive is divine". It is about a higher level of conciousness that sees more clearly and understands a little more than most.
Forgiveness brings healing and wholeness to both the one being forgiven and the one forgiving. In light of that there should be no limits, whatever you believe. If you can forgive, you can set free. Holding someone in unforgiveness is kind of keeping a rope around them restricting their growth, we have no right to do that.
I believe unforgiveness is powerful enough to cause sickness to both parties, at the very least it stunts the emotional growth of the person or persons concerned.
There is amazing power in forgiveness so it should never be with held .
Forgiveness and heaven are related but religion is a different thing all together. Too many people confuse religion with faith and personal belief .
People can be religious about anything, but faith is a deep sense of believing in a much higher more powerful being than oneself. As a Christian that one is Jesus who we can relate to through His Spirit and in so doing enter into relationship with the Father (God)
The bible says that we have been forgiven therefore we should in turn forgive, no holes barred.
To the question about Hitler asking for forgiveness, I would respond by saying Yes, Jesus said to the thief on the cross beside Him, today you will be with me in paradise. If Hitler was genuinely humble enough to acknowledge his evil ways and seek Gods forgiveness then I believe God would forgive.
Paul had many Christians put to death for believing in Jesus, yet God forgave him and made him one of the gresatest teachers of all time. .
There are no 'limits' to forgiveness. Just like there is no degree of sin.
We most certainly will be sharing Heaven with murders, theives, and prostitutes. Thing is, All of have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. It was through Jesus's sacrafice that our sins are forgiven. He paid our debts.
No there are no limits to forgiveness; if there was then Jesus' sacrifice was not good enough and he would have been lying when he called out "It is finished."
My 2 cents: If there is a Heaven and people like Hitler or Stalin could be there by being contrite at the very end and Hell has people who lived good lives but simply didn't believe something, on the whole, I think I'd prefer Hell.
In christian mythology, yes.
"probably Adolph Hitler is in haven as he was a good catholic, if his last thought was about repent or forgiveness it is done, ticket for heaven.
The only things that cannot be forgiven, and you will go straight to hell for this, are rejecting Christ and blaspheming the Holy Spirit.
New International Version (NIV)
16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
New International Version (NIV)
28 Truly I tell you, people can be forgiven all their sins and every slander they utter, 29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin.”"
So, every one of us atheists out there are condemned to the lake of fire, sad for Bill Gates saving millions of lives and salvation is just easy as asking for forgiveness...
All you need is to believe in Jesus to be saved, take Satan along , he believe in Jesus, if he forgives with all his heart
Q: What are the limits of forgiveness?
A: Somewhere past seventy times seven!
Perhaps if Hitler had never known God up to the last moment he might be saved. I think one of the biggest arguments is believing all you need is to be saved. Sin is actually only telling you that you our doing something wrong and need to fix it. The multitude of sins is what condemns your soul. If you do not recognize that one sin it usually becomes many sins on top of sins. I do not believe that Hitler had any belief in God or any chance of a change of heart when he killed himself. When I watched the Nuremberg trials and other trials since they all have one thing in common. A complete lack of compassion for their victims and no remorse and admission of guilt. I find it completely puzzling that these people know a death sentence is coming and despite this knowledge they make no attempt to admit they were wrong. Standing in front of victims still terrified by their presence in a Nation of Jews a situation unimaginable in World War II and still remaining defiant is insane. Regardless of what I think God is the final judge on all matters of the soul.
Hitler was born and died a Catholic, the German Nazi troops had :God is with US: on their belt buckle, The Nazi killed 20 million Russian because Hitler wanted to stomp out Atheists too.
After all that, the Pope announce the Atheist were Nazi, which only shows the irresponsibility of Christians.
If Hitler repents with all his heart and gets in to Heaven and I don't repent
I'M GOING TO BE MAD AS HELL!!!
You should both end up in the same place perhaps the ground or something.
Who really knows, what happens in the spirit world
That's a good first question. Let me know what God's answer is when you get there, will ya? I've got my own questions but that wasn't on my list.
Nothing happens in the spirit world...thats why God got bored. The rest is history and prehistory.
If Hitler was a good Catholic someone had better fix the inaccuracies on his Wikipedia page. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler#Religious_views
"Hitler's parents were Roman Catholics, but after leaving home he never attended Mass or received the sacraments."
"Historian John S. Conway states that Hitler held a 'fundamental antagonism' towards the Christian churches."
In political relations with the church, Hitler adopted a strategy 'that suited his immediate political purposes'. According to a US Office of Strategic Services report, Hitler had a general plan, even before his rise to power, to destroy the influence of Christian churches within the Reich. The report titled 'The Nazi Master Plan' stated that the destruction of the church was a goal of the movement right from the start, but that it was inexpedient to express this extreme position publicly. His intention, according to Bullock, was to wait until the war was over to destroy the influence of Christianity.
You pick what you liked from wiki, over all you are not correct
"Adolf Hitler, son of the Catholic Church, died while defending Christianity.Rome as leader of the church worldwide, nor the bishops of Germany, ever denied membership or even public access to the sacraments to Hitler himself, nor to the many, many, other Nazi leaders of the Third Reich who claimed membership in the R.C. church. "A tyrant needs to put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion,believing that he has the gods on his side." - Aristotle
Adolf Hitler was a shrewd politician who knew how to manipulate the churchmen of both of the major German faiths to his advantage, by convincing them at the time that he was a champion, rather than an opponent, of Christianity. Imagine that, Hitler was a two-faced politician! I know another little Hitler, Bush,
In public, Hitler often praised Christian heritage and German Christian culture, and professed a belief in an "Aryan" Jesus Christ—a Jesus who fought against the Jews.He spoke of his interpretation of Christianity as a central motivation for his antisemitism, stating that "As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice."
Hitler trying to project to his Christian countrymen and their clergy the image of a "man of God", chosen to lead a Christian nation into a more perfect state, purified of the demonic influence of Jews, liberals, atheists and "Bolsheviks". Even the members of Hitler's nefarious Nazi S. S., swore a loyalty oath that appealed to God: "I pledge to you, Adolf Hitler, my obedience unto death, so help me God."
And every time regular army NAZI soldiers put on their uniforms,
their belt buckle proclaimed "God is with us".
Hitler a Catholic:
Only after Hitler was dead and out of power did his Roman Catholic Church disown him
Well, the only Nazi to be formally excommunicated from the church was Joseph Goebbels, he married a Protestant woman, big sin...
I think one of the most common mistakes atheists make is assuming that just because someone invokes the name of God to accomplish their ends that automatically makes them a real Christian. Of course, as your excerpt proves, Christians are often guty of the same mistake.
If Hitler was a good Catholic then I'm proud to be a poor one.
I understand that he could see the catholic church as a menace to his dictatorship.
Here is his famous speech:
http://wadsworth.com/history_d/special_ … tler2.html
He mentions god a few times (8) and mentions "clergy who, instead of being God's ministers, regard it as their mission to speak insultingly of our present Reich" maybe this supports what you said.
And here is a very interesting collection of photos:
http://alamoministries.com/content/engl … llery.html
Mine mine, pedrog I declare, you are more shocking than me
Are you sure the Russians atheist didn’t photo shop all these photo's to prove the recent Pope is a liar.
Or unless the German Christian were so ashamed of killing 20 million Russians and they had a far superior version of photo shop to GODDUNIT
You know what they say about the nazi tecnology, way far advanced...
I don't understand why is there a photo of Bill Clinton in that collection...
Just because there are people around nazi's doesn't mean their heart is in it.
If I see a christian walk out of a bar, i do not assume that he is drunk.
Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them
Jesus showed us how to assess people.
Of course, when i see a priest i don't assume he is a pedophile, i only think there is 60% probability that he is one.
That's why jesus said what he said.
You are making an assessment based on news.
What jesus asks us to do is make an informed decision by eyewitness and probably, if we have no eyewitness, let us not judge that person.
USA leading Christianity in the first world
The are also leading drug consuming, prisons, wars, murders greed pedophile terrorist and an all round Sodom and Gomorrah state
You can tell me I'm assuming Christian are a huge part of these facts, I assume USA parties way too hard by their blind faith which carries too much a blind eye of bias.
Oh the irony!
So, you don't believe anything in the bible, as it was written by some anonymous guys many years after the events supposedly occur, no eyewitnesses there...
What nonsense. Hitler was the worst despot and tyrant in the world who ordered thousands of people to be killed indiscriminately. He obviously did not have a religion. If he had, then why would he take extermination as a way to meet his selfish goals? Why would he tolerate murdering? If he killed your family, what will you feel? Will you support him?
Who knows what goes on behind the eyeballs of a madman. How did a mental ill megalomania like Hitler gain the trust of the predominate Christian country and why blame one man. Why not a blame a whole Christian's nation, they were just as much at fault as he was, for allowing Hitler to kill.
More people are killed in the name of God than for any other reason in world history. How else could you kill other human being in their country or other culture unless you thought they were sub human or a demon.
I moved away from living in America because too much crime, War , prisons and etc as I am free to move away. As you are free to move away from the enslavement of your Religion.
I agree with the facts that most of Europe should have been blamed for the holocaust. Still there were many who had no choice but to accept it just like today. Millions of infants thrown away like trash because they claim they are nothing but a fetus but apparently we all have to let the infanticide continue any ways. Now I am certain that someone will come on here and try to justify it as human choice. The World during World War II suffered from many prejudice and even America had plenty of it as well. Yes the Catholic Church and even in its official documents did nothing to stop it. Still these were all people making Earthly choices and they have nothing to do with God or serving his plan. The mistakes of organized Religion run deep but that makes no difference in personal salvation and Gods word. There were those who died in defiance of all that Nazi Germany did and protested and defended Gods true agenda until they were murdered as well. If you were alive then would you have remained defiant or would you have been a Nazi?
I think many of us were really moved at how Nelson Mandela forgave his captors and insisted that South Africa was a land for all, regardless of race. Bitterness destroys: forgiveness, rescues us.
There are more than two categories of repentance, but here are two:
1) ya mean it because you realize it is necessary.
2) yer frightened so much you ask for it.
True repentance is sincere. There is understanding of what is expected and understanding of why repentance is necessary. There is also some concrete belief in God being real mixed in there somewhere.
Sorrow is often called repentant, but it is only sorrow. "I am sorry i did that". When really the only sorry is in being caught. Insincere sorrow for the sake of 'covering the bases', I think, is not accepted by God. For instance some think, "I will just wait till i am dying or really really old before I invite God into my life", this kind of repentance is not respected by God either.
God knows what is in the hearts, whether the repentance be true or false, God judge, but know this, If at anytime, anywhere, repentance is true, God will honor the soul that comes to Him.
So if Hitler asked for forgiveness, he, like everyone else, had better mean it.
If he was truly repentant and accepted Jesus as his savior than yes he would. Refer to the thief on the cross beside Jesus.
I really need to confess that my need for revenge lasted years. It took me 30 years to finally consider forgiving someone. Even then, it was a selfish act because the hate was killing me.
Does God forgive? He is wise. I wonder if he let Lucifer back into Heaven. Or maybe Lucifer hasn't grown wise enough to forgive God? I just made my head hurt trying to figure that out. I hope it worked out well for them.
A few years ago I listed of all negative people in my entire life and called them all up and forgave them. Some did not care at all about the called. Yet it was not about them, it was about me for carrying all this junk luggage around.
Mainly happiness is about two things,
Your health and what you can forget.
The Satan thing is just a lame excuse or they are playing the blaming game
Or perhaps we are Lucifer -- great sinners that we are. Each of us were there at the beginning, not in our current physical identities, naturally. But immortal spirit is, after all, immortal, and we were created in His image (not our Homo sapiens vessels).
it depends on which religion you ask; not to mention which religious person you ask. And since their many different responses will be based on faith and rote and not logic.
With God, there are no limits. There is an infinite supply of love and forgiveness.
And what care you for these physical forms we wear? They are not the real us.
For his sake, I hope Hitler did give up his ego self and awaken to God. The evidence doesn't look good, though. Suicide is perhaps the most selfish act and that drives one directly into the heart of ego, away from God.
by Eric Dierker 8 years ago
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