Blessed, only if I believe...

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   mischeviousmeposted 10 years ago

   If I decide to be a christian, they say "bless you". Sometimes they say it when I've done something kind for another. But what happens when I choose not to believe? Is it not then, an empty blessing?

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      Disappearingheadposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      "Bless you" today is nothing more than a conversational pleasantry device designed to invoke feelings of inner warmth and gratitude. Believe or don't believe a "Bless you" will not magically invoke God's favour upon you.

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         mischeviousmeposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         But if I don't believe, then I'm damned. So why even say it in the first place? I do understand the value of the pleasantry, though for those that know I'm not religious, why even say it?

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   Emile Rposted 10 years ago

   You are such a busy little beaver. I agree with DH. Just a pleasantry. I don't think the believer is secretly assuming you are damned if you don't believe. It's spiritual bon homie. Don't read too much into it.

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      mischeviousmeposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I'm always pondering my spiritual mind, it puzzles me that I even have one. I come from a family, that does not promote their religiosity. Perhaps I'm not religious because I was exposed to God in so many forms. My parents didn't try to indoctrinate me with their beliefs, they left it open for me to decide for myself. Which, I must say, is much more appropriate than expecting that level of loyalty.

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         Emile Rposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Well, and this is simply an observation. You might bring the judgmental nature of your opinions on Christianity down a notch or two. Your assessment of Christianity is not the same as a Christian. There is good in everything. There is also bad in everything. Pointing out the bad serves little purpose if you don't understand the good also. Those who cheerily end a conversation with 'God bless you'  rarely intend to inflict harm with their words.

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            mischeviousmeposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            I never said all christians, though it could be implied. I could say the same for most other, mainstream religious believers and you could always interpret it in the same light. It sounds as if I'm talking about all believers, that was not the intent. I have some respect, where respect is due.

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               Emile Rposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               If you only show respect, when you judge it to be due...then you start with the premise of no respect for others? So, you can be disrespectful, until an individual convinces you that it is due them?

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                  mischeviousmeposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  Is trust not something to be earned? They don't respect me, not until I accept and internalize whatever it is their selling. This could be said on all sides, unless we agree, there is room for disagreement and bias of various degrees.

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                     Emile Rposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     But, by this statement you have already judged and convicted any who you label Christian. How, exactly, is your philosophy different from the philosophy (as you perceive it) of a Christian?

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                        mischeviousmeposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                        I've never seen a buddhist damn someone... Have you? I'm not a buddhist, but I would never judge them for their belief. I converted a jew to christianity, and when I had decided to leave the faith, I realized that I had created a monster. He became one of the bad examples, judging and damning any who believed different. He is but one of many, though I know they don't account for all. Still the judgement is there, whether spoken or not. This is not to say that we all don't have social prejudices, we all judge others to some degree. The difference is in whether we can judge and still love the person we are judging. Does this sound reasonable?

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                           Emile Rposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                           No. Judgement is what it is. You can't know what is in the heart of another. Broad stroke statements prove we don't have faith in the hearts of others.
                           
                           Your experience is not the experience of another. You can't perceive mistakes in your own actions and then condemn others because of wrongs you have done. And that is what you appear to be doing, when reading your post.
                           
                           To say you sit in judgment, yet still love others, is the same spiel I hear from fundamental Christians. The actions are the same. So, I'm compelled to ask again. Exactly, how are you different?

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                              mischeviousmeposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                              I never said I was any different, I still make judgements and to me they are fair. Can you say you are any different then? We are all the same, though we would claim difference. As I've said before "same emotions, different words".

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                                 Emile Rposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                 Ok. Then, would you label yourself somewhat hypocritical? Complaining about others who do the same as you do?

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                                    mischeviousmeposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                    I still judge myself more, for me it creates a fairness... I don't see anyone as being any different from myself, which is the point I've been pushing all along. I've tried my hardest for a time, not to sell any one point of view, other than to acknowledge one's self in others. So I make overly generalized statements, hoping the shock value of it will thus, get the attention of the passer by... If I say something and it get's your attention, then some part of you knows it's right or, you are trying to prove yourself right over it. This how our views can conflict, for we believe we are right, by what we believe we know...

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                                       Emile Rposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                       You do realize that it is obvious that you are dancing around the issue? If you are no different from another how do you justify, in your own mind, critical broad stroke statements of others making critical broad stroke judgments. You can't back pedal out of the question.
                                       
                                       You are attempting to sell a point of view. Yours. And that is why I am asking. What is different about your view? When juxtaposed against the views of the ones you are criticizing in the opening statement of this thread? Why should I perceive your view as correct? What separates your actions from theirs?
                                       
                                       And, yes, you are making generalized statements simply for the shock value. You have done nothing during the course of this exchange but expand on the fact that you are no different from the ones you have judged. You have not proven yourself correct. Simply hypocritical.
                                       
                                       You are in conflict with yourself on a larger scale than the conflict you percieve us to have.

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                                          mischeviousmeposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                          I'm a different person every moment, sometimes I say things that normally, I'm not always aware of or don't intend to say. This is the point I'm making... It's my belief, I know how I feel and am impotent to logically disclose it to others. Do we all not revert to such tactics though? We all want to be heard, but the words are hard to find.

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                                             Emile Rposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                             I have noticed that the words appear to be harder to find for some. Once again our exchange has led me to a wtf moment. A part of me would love to sit down with you for a few beers. The rest of me thinks a little alcohol might simply make you less understandable.

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                                                mischeviousmeposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                                Alchohol makes me more retarded... Needless to say, I don't drink.

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                                                   Emile Rposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                                   Probably for the best. All things considered.

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      habeeposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      That's pretty much what I'm thinking.

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