The soul?

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   Rad Manposted 12 years ago

   Has science found the soul?
   
   A few hundred years ago discussing such things would have gotten one charged with blasphomy. It was thought that conciousness was not part of the body. We know now it's a process of the brain. If the brain is damaged our personality can change. A kind person can become evil. They can lose the ability to know right from wrong.
   
   So, when the brain dies does consciousness (soul) die?

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      A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Nope.
      
      
      
      Evidently so.

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         Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Science has found consciousness. If when the brain dies consciousness dies and if the soul is consciousness, then when the brain dies so does the soul.

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            A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            If consciousness was the soul, then it would be termed as such. It isn't. Souls have never been shown to exist.

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               Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Okay, I misunderstood your previous post. I took your (nope) as meaning it hasn't been found yet.

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                  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  I don't suspect scientists are even looking for a soul considering they already know so much about the human body and nothing of the sort has ever shown itself.

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                     Shanna11posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     It is an interesting concept---where a soul would be if they were scientifically proven to exist- I mean, it would have to be of some sort of matter, therefore it would have weight.
                     
                     I remember stumbling across a book in my old high school library about some guy hundreds of years ago (maybe less) who would go around to people on their deathbeds and weigh them before they died and after they died (and as they died). He came up with the idea that the soul would weigh a couple of ounces (based on the religious idea that the soul left the body when a person died).
                     
                     He didn't factor in possible other things, like the relaxation of bladder muscles releasing fluids (a couple of ounces worth would be very likely), but it was a fascinating idea nonetheless.

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                        A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        Yes, I've read about that, too. Unfortunately, there were also many people who were weighed that showed no significant change before and after their deaths.

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                           Shanna11posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           Empty bladders, possibly. It'd be interesting to know what changes happen to the body instantly after death that would cause any noticeable changes in weight.

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                              A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                              Decomposition of the body. Blood stops flowing, cells start dying, neurons no longer exchange electromagnetism, etc.

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                        Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        I find it fascinating. Most people believe we have a soul based information given to us from a 2000 year old book. Science has mapped the brain and has an understanding of consciousness. We know damage to certain parts of the brain causes distinct changes to personality. What do they think the soul is if it's not consciousness?

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                           couturepopcafeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           When you talk about consciousness, IMO it's important to distinguish the difference between being conscious/unconscious and consciousness itself. Scientists know very little about the mind or consciousness. They see results of activity but still don't know what fires that activity along neural pathways. I could agree that consciousness and soul might be closely related in some way and that DNA has memory. This could also be related to reincarnation and why we remember things that did not happen in our lifetime but don't know why (deja vu)

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      samadaslamposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      First of all you must know what is soul? Soul is light or you can say energy. Energy cannot be destroyed but it can change it's form. So your first question's answer is "Yes Science has the ability to find soul but as it don't know it's definition so it not yet found it. And your last line question's answer: "Energy never dies to Soul never dies and brain is just a processing units to solve Logics and to act according to logics while soul has no logics, no time and space limitations.

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         A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         What light, what energy, exactly? Why haven't scientists discovered this light/energy yet you appear to know all about it?

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            samadaslamposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Science has discovered all such things but the problem with the science that it's blind, dumb and deaf without logic. When the science will get material logic, these discoveries will get words.

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               A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               No, that would be the believers who make such ridiculous claims about science.
               
               
               
               Gibberish.

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               andycoolposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Dear samadaslam, your claim is not untrue... actually it's partly true. God may be proved to exist in this way... I did it on HP long ago. With open mind... soul, the way it's mostly interpreted to exist is not true at all. When we die that's the end of life. The concept of life after death supported in the light of existence of soul in form of energy... as the believers put it... is beyond my logic.

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                  samadaslamposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Andycool while rejecting my answer you accepted my point of view. Yes it's beyond you logic as this world in not based on your logic. What is logic? Just a predefined rules or set of instructions (a program) in you mind. Who told you 2+2 = 4???? Did God came to earth to tell you this? It's nothing but a rule defined by a human. So dear logic are defined by man and Universe is designed by God who don't even bother for your logic.

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                     A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Far from that, logic is a set of principles that guide one to be reasonable and rational when faced with any situation.
                     
                      
                     
                     No, we can take 2 things and add them with 2 other things and find that we have 4 things. This is not a set of instructions or predefined rules by any stretch of the imagination, it's simply reality.
                     
                     
                     
                     Of course gods don't bother with logic because gods have nothing to do with reality, reason or rationale.

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                     andycoolposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     First calm down dear samadaslam... because nobody cares for your anger except you. I wrote a hub on what you may like to point out in the name of logic. Go and read it and then try to evaluate my intellectual level.
                     
                     2+2 equals 4. Always and forever.

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                        samadaslamposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        Dear Andy it's a forum and here everyone share his/her opinion so I never get angry at whatever I read here. I have made up my mind very broad so something good can get in. LOL....
                        I never say that my intellectual level or my knowledge level is so high or I'm qualified. You definitely may have better knowledge but in my last post I just said my point of view. I didn't mean to hit you etc so dear don't take anything personal here if you are here to share and learn.

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               wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               It is light, and science has discovered it.  It has thus measured it - what is the wavelength/frequency of the light we call soul?  What is it's strength (lumens)?  Where does it originate - what portion of the body is the photon emitter?  How does it work?  What is it made of? 
               
               What happens to the light after it is emitted?  Is it simply absorbed by the surrounding cells or is it of sufficient energy/wavelength that the materials of the body are transparent to it and it leaves the body in all directions?  Is each photon a separate soul or does God contain the light in a special force field until we die?
               
               All valid questions, and if science has found this light we call soul I'm sure the answers are already there....

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      cheaptrickposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Consider the reverse of what your saying.
      If you're using a tool[the brain]and the tool breaks or is thrown out of whack,do you cease to exist?No.If the brain[actually the entire body]is the tool we use to experience the physical world,we should accept that one day that tool will break or wear out.
      The answer to your question can only come at death.It seems to boil down to this;When we die one of two things will happen.Everything stops or something else happens.It would be interesting to see what that might be.

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      Deborah Sextonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      ************************
      
      In Hebrew the soul is the whole being..the physical, emotional, mental etc..Until they all die our soul has not.

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      Barbara Kayposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      The New Testament says that man is made-up of body, soul and spirit. We all know what the body is, but the soul is the part of man that makes day to day decisions and the spirit is the part that most people think of as the soul.

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         Deborah Sextonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         **********************
         
         Please give scripture. I cannot find where it says that

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   knolyourselfposted 12 years ago

   When the body/brain dies it becomes as they dust to dust. If one posits consciousness after death it must be of another dimension. Whether one believes or not may depend one's facility to experience this other dimension as a real possibility.

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   knolyourselfposted 12 years ago

   The theory was that soul has weight and with the absence of the soul the body would weigh less.

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   Disappearingheadposted 12 years ago

   If the soul or spirit which is often believed to remain conscious after death retaining all the memories and personality of the person whilst alive, actually existed then:
   - Why do people often suffer personality change following brain damage?
   - How do people remain unconscious during a coma?
   - Why do those with mental disorders remain with mental disorders?
   
   If this soul/spirit is so good at keeping one conscious after death retaining all the faculties, then why is it so ineffectual when the person is alive? Surely this soul should take over the functions of the brain whilst alive rendering the three cases above as of no effect.

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      Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Well said Disappearinghead. Where is the soul of one in a coma? Love it.

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         A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         It's a lengthy read, but incredibly well thought out, scroll down on this page to the fourth post by Boris where he argues the snot out of it...
         
         http://www.sciforums.com/souls-oh-Boris-t-2539.html

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            Druid Dudeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            According to the story, the soul is the breath of life. When the breath of life leaves you, that is the soul departing. Why do atheists insist on answering spiritual questions when they don't believe in it. We already know they don't believe.

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               A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               That comes from old Greek but is not the same thing as what believers today assert the soul to be, whatever that is.

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                  Druid Dudeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Not concerned with modern theologic thought. They don't even realize that they aren't following Jesus. He went in the other direction, probably to put as much distance as possible between him and his "followers" There is more contained in that breath of life than mere air.

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                     A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     You mean, that which is based on medieval myths and superstitions?

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                        Druid Dudeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        Something more primordial than that. Firstly. I'm not a christian, and reject christian thought. I view Jesus as being on the order of Buddha. Moses same thing. We are more than the sum of our parts.

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                           Druid Dudeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           ATM first you say old Greek, then you say medieval....there is a world of difference. So which is it, or are you just throwing pebbles because that's the cutting edge of your ammo? Medieval, indeed!

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   brotheryochananposted 12 years ago

   Soul in the bible is different than the soul of aristotle and plato that most people today subscribe to.
   
   Soul is the human body including the thought process. It is animated life, a person.
   
   It is not a separate entity that leaves the body after death.

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      Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Indeed. However virtually all Christians I've met, pastors included, subscribe the separate entity. How many times have we heard people say that because we are made in the image of God we are spirit beings inside a physical body. Very unbiblical.

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      A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      No, that's the brain and the biochemical reactions contained in living organisms. They are not the soul.

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         Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I think that's almost exactly what BC said ATM.

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            A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I understand, but he has labeled those things as the soul, when in fact they already have labels that have nothing to do with the label he offers.

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               Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               No. The soul is another valid label.

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                  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  How so? Would it be like saying apples, oranges and bananas are labeled fruits?

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                  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  The biblical definition.
                  of course it is nothing like apples etc are labeled fruits
                  
                  Genesis 2:7   And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
                  
                  Genesis 12:13   Say, I pray thee, thou art my sister: that it may be well with me for thy sake; and my soul shall live because of thee.
                  
                  Genesis 46:26   All the souls that came with Jacob into Egypt, which came out of his loins, besides Jacob's sons' wives, all the souls were threescore and six;
                  
                  pretty uncomplicated stuff.
                  
                  What deborah said a few posts up

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   paradigmsearchposted 12 years ago

   "The soul?"
   
   I had a soul once. But then reality came along and pretty much killed it.

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      Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      That is strange that you said this.
      
        I was just thinking about "The Soul" just the other day. I haven't come to any conclusions   though I was kinda thinking that ...
      
        It is easier to say what the soul is not, than what it is.
      
        A rose that has little fragrance has little soul.
        A frog that doesn't jump or a fish that doesn't swim.
        A loveless marrage.
        A day with no purpose.   
        These are detrimental to the soul. They take it's breath away.
        When we find ourselves therel We don't want to stay.
      
       
        It is the soul which we should keep strong, cause when our bodies get tired and can go no further ;  it will be the soul which opens the door and goes through.   Or  NOT?   
      
         I don't know ?   was just Ah thinkin.

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         andycoolposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Aahh! How sweet... thanks Jerami for this post. Like fresh air... I love it.

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            Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Thanks ....   It made me feel better while I was thinking it,

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   Emile Rposted 12 years ago

   The movie Men in Black comes to mind. The jeweler was really a little alien driving a robotic human form. Maybe the soul is the energy that drives the brain. It would explain your question of accidents causing severe personality changes.  If the equipment is damaged the operator has to learn to compensate. If areas within the brain are damaged beyond repair, there is no way for the energy to compensate but it can't go anywhere else. It's simply driving a totaled vehicle.

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      A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      And yet, it isn't.

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         Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Says you
         
         It's just a thought ATM. You should try speculating sometimes. It's fun. Believe it, or not; we still have a lot to learn.

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            A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Speculating nonsense doesn't allow anyone to learn, quite the contrary in fact.

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               Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               I'm afraid I agree somewhat, but disagree on several levels. But you really aren't the type open to discussion..so se la vie.

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                  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  

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                     Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     What are you laughing at? I read your posts. Debate...bait and switch...refusal to consider all points. That's your mo. It works well for you. I simply find more open minded discussions more productive..

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                        A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        Of course you do, especially having filled their mouths with your words.

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                           Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           Whose mouths have I filled with my words?  That makes absolutely no sense at all, unless you are saying I converse with imaginary friends.

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   Jeramiposted 12 years ago

   It's been a cold rainy day here in Houston ...   but I don't care I'mA cooking 15lb of pork ribs in the smoker; hoping some hungry somebody's come over for a cold beer and a game of pool.
           (though nobody's been invited).
   
      I always heard ...  "Cook it and they'll come"

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      Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I'm on my way!!!

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         Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         What time will your flight be landing? IAH  or Hoby?

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   Druid Dudeposted 12 years ago

   Try focusing on the lint in your belly button. That's a good first step.

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      Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      When we were kids, my dad had us convinced we were so poor my mom saved the lint from his belly button and spun it into new thread to make our clothes. I don't know that I've ever found any lint there, but that's a good memory. I'm glad you posted that.

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    Rad Manposted 12 years ago

    The soul, which most people speak about must be consciousness otherwise the soul by it's self would not have consciousness and therefor wouldn't be aware of it's self. Kind of like an amputated finger.
    Psychologists do know consciousness comes from the left hemisphere in most people by experimenting with split brained people.
    Does this mean we know the soul (consciousness) comes from the left hemisphere? I think so.

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       Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       I don't mean this negatively  ...
       
       
           But imagine ??   We are on different sides of the room,
         It is dark!   You hear me speaking so you know which side of the room that I am on.
          
          You turn on the light and see my mouth moving while you also hear me speaking,
       
          You shouldn't assume that  "I" am confined within in the cavern from which you hear the noise coming from..   Well   Yes  kinda  but not ???

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          Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          What?

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