children

1. 61

   petealexposted 11 years ago

   Why do people each their children " Eve ate an apple from the Garden of Eden".

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      A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      It's called childhood indoctrination in which parents tell their kids what to believe as opposed to having them grow up to think for themselves.

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         petealexposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         I know and they may not know themselves, because they haven't read for read the book.

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            Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            I think it is also possible to argue that you haven't read the book, and simply take what the church teaches at face value.
            
            When I read it, I see an action born of ignorance. The fruit is eaten by an innocent child. But, how does everyone respond? They lie. They attempt to transfer blame and distance themselves. Everyone involved suffers.
            
            What is the story attempting to teach? Don't attempt to deceive others. (the snake). Don't withhold information that others need in order to make responsible decisions. (Adam) Take responsibility for your actions. (the snake, Adam and Eve).
            
            What is the moral of that story? You are responsible for your actions and there are always consequences.
            
            I don't consider it heinous to explain this to children.

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      getitriteposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      To deliver their children into the hands of charlatans.
      
      To these parents, the distorted reality that they have been brainwashed to believe, becomes REALITY.  Therefore they can't comprehend that what they are teaching their children as reality is a mere fairytale.  It's fascinating to see how fragile the mind really is.

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2. 67

   aka-djposted 11 years ago

   What else can they teach them?
   That they evolved from monkeys?
   They were reincarnated from rats?
   They are seeds of aliens?
   Accidents of the cosmos, perhaps?
   
   
   
   
   I'll stick to the Bible, thanks!

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   1. 59

      A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Only fools would teach their children such things.

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         Eric Newlandposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         <--- Proud to be a fool.

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            jomineposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            That is ok, but then why do you want to debate with intelligent people, to get ridiculed?

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            1. 61

               Eric Newlandposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Actually, I'm debating with people who respond to pretty much every post from a religious person, regardless of its content, with a jab that contains the phrase "fairy story."
               
               I have my reasons for raising my child in my faith, not least of which is I believe God to be directly responsible for the fact that she isn't rotting in a coffin right now.
               
               Six million children are being abused in the United States alone. Five children die every day from child abuse. Yet teaching children about Jesus is what makes a horrible parent. It boggles my mind.

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            habeeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Ditto!

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            1. 67

               aka-djposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Double ditto!

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               1. 73

                  getitriteposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  That's fine, but think of the children. Just maybe they want be so proud of being fools.

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         3. 59

            A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Why would you teach your children false ideas and be proud to do so?

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   2. 73

      getitriteposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      So you don't have a problem with lying to innocent children.
      
      Not Good.

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         jomineposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         If he had a problem with lying, would he remain a Christian?
         The alternate scenario is, he is too innocent(cretin) to understand it as a lie.

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            getitriteposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Disturbing.

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   3. 61

      mischeviousmeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      The bible in no way makes certain the functions of the greater whole.

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      1. 61

         petealexposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Actually, if you read correctly, because there is a correct way to read the bible. Suggested reading ( How to Enjoy the Bible") it God whom the scriptures are inspired by will tell you everything you need to know. It's not something that happens over night because sometimes at the moment you can not recevie it.

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         1. 61

            mischeviousmeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            If any of the other books of antiquity are not taken just as seriously, then the bible holds no merit. If the iliad is not seen as a holy book, then why worship any old story?

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            1. 61

               petealexposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Like I said, sometimes we are not in a place to receive truth.

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               1. 61

                  mischeviousmeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Truth is subjective... What may be truth for you, is fallacy for another.

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                     wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Truth is not subjective.  Belief, perception; these are subjective but we all live under the same objective truth whether we choose to accept it as truth or not.

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                        mischeviousmeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        Truth is presented objectively, it is the acceptance of a truth that is subjective.

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                        1. 95

                           wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           Better.  What is perceived as truth is usually presented subjectively while claiming objectivity, but truth itself is completely objective.  Whether presented by another or discovered by self, the subjective perception of objective truth varies person to person.
                           
                           One has only to visit the religious forums to see this truth in action and an objective consideration of the concept will result in the subjective acceptance of objective truth.
                           
                           Right (true)?

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                           1. 61

                              mischeviousmeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              It's like this, we rationalize everything. We decide what is true and what is fallacy, we create for ourselve's, a running theme on what is reality. So that is the idea of subject v object, information is presented as object and is picked apart as is a subject. We believe our truths to be solid, infallible, they are a reality.

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                              1. 95

                                 wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                 Again right.  Mankind has an amazing propensity for rationalization, for believing that what they want to be true [/i]is[/i] true.  Subjective belief trumps objectivity nearly every time.
                                 
                                 We're on the same track here - now if we only knew it to be true rather than a subjective rationalization!

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                                 1. 61

                                    mischeviousmeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                    But then, where does logic and reasoning fit in? Rationality is nothing without a brain...

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         2. 73

            getitriteposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            It seems that you started the thread, implying that you were a critical thinker.  Now it appears that you are going in the complete opposite direction.  So what is your REAL agenda?

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3. 63

   SandyMcCollumposted 11 years ago

   It's not just a bible story, but an acceptable one for children to understand how people came about on the Earth. When the kids get older they begin to ask questions, and that's when Adam and Eve become transparent.

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      Jesus was a hippyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      How can you claim that lying to children is "acceptable"?

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4. 61

   Disappearingheadposted 11 years ago

   I will teach my children that A&E were like children, that God provided a home for them to take care of all their needs. He gave them a simple test of "do not eat that fruit", to determine when they were old enough to understand the difference between right and wrong and to bear the consequences of their own actions.
   
   At some point Eve begins to reason for herself and has an internal conflict; "shall I shan't I?" She chooses to go for it, and talks Adam around. They then understand the difference between right and wrong, which is what God wanted to eventually happen all along; "look they are now like us knowing good and evil", "let's us make man in our image as likeness". Doh! Now God sees they are old enough to make their own way in the world and kicks them out of the family home to work for a living as I shall when the kids get to 18 or so.
   
   Just like kids in their 20s living at home with no job, become lazy and indolent, not reaching their potential, so it would have been if Adam and Eve remained in the garden.
   
   Alternatively, this is a folk memory relating to a past time when man was a carefree hunter gatherer before he became a wage slave to agriculture. See Gobekli Tepe. In which case Eve discovered religion which led to millennia of misery for humanity, rather than just walking with God.
   
   By the way, as a Christian, evolution from monkeys works for me; it's in our genes.

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      Jesus was a hippyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Monkeys are a modern day species that exists today. I dont think you understand how evolution works.

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      1. 61

         Disappearingheadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         I know that JWH. I was using the evolved from monkeys phrase as it is a common phrase used by fundamentalists to ridicule evolution. I thought I was being ironic.

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5. 61

   petealexposted 11 years ago

   A lot of you all are right, lying to children isnt the way to go. If you dont know just say " I dont know right now, but I will find out". We tell our children not to make up stories, so therefore teching by example is the best way. Sorry, but it is true that sometimes we as human beings dont know, but the truth is available if you look. Also some people think that it sound better and they teach thier children what they were taught as kids, so they continue to pass that story on.

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6. 61

   Eric Newlandposted 11 years ago

   And hey, has anyone else noticed the blatant double standard going on here?
   
   I don't demand that you take your children to church. Why do you demand that I not?
   
   I don't presume to tell another parent how to raise their own child. Why do you?

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   1. 58

      Mark Knowlesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Because teaching children that majik is real and they will be punished if they don't believe is actually child abuse?
      
      I bet you have an opinion when you see some one else abusing their children - don't you?
      
      SO - no double standard involved. Well - except on your part.

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      1. 67

         aka-djposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Have you written a hub on (good) parenting?
         Have you shared your experiences and wisdom, to enlighten us (fools)/
         I'd love to read it. (Really)!

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         1. 58

            Mark Knowlesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Awww - no you wouldn't, because it would involve teaching critical thinking skills alongside genuine scientific knowledge.
            
            I know you are not a big fan of either.
            
            Stick with majik or punishment for not believing.

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            1. 67

               aka-djposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Mate I would.
               Didn't I say "REALY"?
               
               If I was kidding, I would have said "JK"

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   2. 59

      A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I see no double standard. However, there is huge difference both morally and intellectually between taking your children to church in order to tell them what to believe as opposed to teaching all religions and telling your children to ask questions and scrutinize the answers.

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         wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Good point.  The problem here is the question of "what is truth?"  Most believers understand and already know the truth - what your are suggesting then is that they teach their children reams of data known to be false and ask the kids to determine the difference between that and the real truth. 
         
         Considering that the penalty for picking the "wrong" "truth" from those reams is data is eternal burning in Hell, can you really expect them to follow that path?  What now is the morality of that action, given that few believers truly grasp the difference between belief and knowledge?

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            A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            That's just one part of the equation, children are to be taught many things, not just that which is shown to be false. Children get a much better understanding of the world and what people believe when they can scrutinize and question myths just as arduous as scientific theory and fact.
            
            In other words, they require a full all around education of all things in order to fully expand their intellectual prowess so they are able to deal with and expand on facts as well as identify and reject the bs.

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            1. 95

               wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Don't misunderstand me - I fully agree with what you say here.  Children need to learn to separate the bs from reality. 
               
               My question concerned the morality of trying to teach a child how to think in the hopes that they will make the right choice of religious belief.  Keeping in mind that if they do not make the same choice as the parent they will burn in hell for eternity.  Intelligence, reasoning ability, knowledge; all such things are of no consequence whatsoever when compared to the results of not believing in the parent's choice of religion.  Even the morality of intentionally with holding information from a child necessary to make an informed decision doesn't matter. 
               
               Children don't need an understanding of the world.  They don't need to know what people believe and they don't need to scrutinize or question the religious myth of their parents.  They only need to believe and obey the same God that their parents do, earning a place in heaven. 
               
               We all want the best for our children but we all have different ideas of what is best.  The true believer KNOWS what is best - there is no chance that they are wrong and no chance that anyone else might have a better concept.  It's hard (impossible, actually) for anyone else to break through that mindset to help the children learn and think for themselves without first teaching the parent the same things we are attempting to teach the child.
               
               Do we have the right to force a parent to make a completely immoral decision that will probably result in their child roasting forever?

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               1. 59

                  A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  It would appear that when a child is educated as opposed to indoctrinated and they learn about religions, they will unlikely choose any religious belief because they'll learn to understand they are all just myths and superstitions.

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      2. 61

         Eric Newlandposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Picture how you would react if I demanded that you, or any atheist, take their child to church or in some other way teach them something you don't believe, or fail to teach them something that you do believe and think is extremely important.
         
         You would think the very idea was outrageous. And yet I'm not supposed to think it's outrageous when you demand the exact same thing of me.
         
         That would be a double standard.

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            A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            You are mistaken, quite understandably, that I have beliefs in which to project upon children.
            
            
            
            You are again mistaken that I am demanding the same thing you are. I am simply demanding that children get a complete education. You are demanding something completely different.

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7. 92

   Msmillarposted 11 years ago

   @ Troubled Man - I don't insist on any idealism for my kids. I let them choose their beliefs after reading ALL the evidence. Here's my problem, my daughter, like myself, question the authenticity if what's written when dinosaurs are completely discounted. We have physical proof they existed but I can't explain why certain historic books never mentions them. What can I tell her when I can't explain it myself? She a realistic person, the community we live in is partial to Christianity. Is she doomed to constant criticsm because she questions this like I do?

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      A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      It is common for some history books to not mention dinosaurs if the book is not dealing with dinosaurs. Certainly, there are plenty of books and other literature that explains a great deal about dinosaurs.
      
      
      
      That's never a problem, just be honest with your child and tell her you don't know and that you both should look into it yourselves, seems like a perfect opportunity for some mother/daughter bonding.
      
      
      
      Yes, from the Christians. Of course, you can let her give in to Christian ignorance, but that wouldn't be teaching your daughter to be honest with herself, which is far more important than giving in to ignorant criticism.

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         Disappearingheadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Christian ignorance? Doh, everyone knows those dinosaurs aren't real; God made up those bones and put them into rocks to confuse us.

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8. 61

   petealexposted 11 years ago

   I think if someone is not familiar with the readings and others are, why not give them specific direction or facts about the situation. I keep seeing posting like    "dinosaurs are real and there are books to prove it". What books can you give that person to read besides taking your word for it. I think that if we are going to give information to someone then we should have research to back it up. My point is have proof to back your argument. I learned that a long time ago. That also applies to the teaching of Adam and Eve. If you can't find proof don't teach it.

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   Msmillarposted 11 years ago

   The exact question I'm presented with by her and in my own mind is,"I find it difficult to believe that the Bible is a true accounting of events when it discounts dinosaurs. We have archaeological digs that have proven dinosaurs lived on Earth, but only a book (Bible) to say otherwise."  I feel whatever you believe in is your choice, just believe in it wholeheartedly. I don't feel I can provide her with a solid answer. She's right though, so maybe I should encourage her to go with the hard evidence and stand behind it.

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      A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      That is by far the best choice. Kudos.

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10. 63

    pisean282311posted 11 years ago

    @ts parents who teach such stories actually believe that story is real...their intention is to teach children what they think is truth....

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