How can someone who is Bible oriented not accept that God is love?

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   Ericdierkerposted 8 years ago

   How can someone who is Bible oriented not accept that God is love?
   
   Here is what the Bible says in one of the most easy to understand of all verses: Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.
   Now I read that as "because God is love:" What happened to Hell and damnation. Did it just go poof! I can not read a portion of the Bible as contrary to what is so simple. How can others?

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   Austinstarposted 8 years ago

   
   
   This is my opinion, not my belief.
   Most people see "god" as a "being". They see god with a corporeal body, hair, eyes, nose, mouth, arms, torso, legs, and, I suppose male parts since they always refer to it as a "he".
   In my opinion, god was never meant to be a "being", god is a metaphor for love as you say.
   God is also seen as a fatherly figure, which is odd to me, since most people also see this deity as a "creator" outside of time and space. If a creator is outside of time and space, it stands to reason that it would have no need for a corporeal body that can ONLY exist inside of time and space.
   By defining god as a supernatural "feeling" like love, it would explain the purpose of having a deity in the first place.

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      Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      "By defining god as a supernatural "feeling" like love, it would explain the purpose of having a deity in the first place."
      TRUE!
      MUST be "Holy Spirit filled" which is TRUE LOVE as defined by GOD!
      I Jn 4:7 "Is born of GOD" (Holy Spirit filled)!

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      Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Austinstar, I get what you are talking about. Why not a "feeling"? Why can't we just abide by that. Outside of this and that. No need for corporeal.

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      Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Eric: We can't just ignore WORD & go on feelings!" WORD is what we MUST LEARN ("rightly divided WORD II Tim 2:15)! Under New Covenant, we must do as disciples did on Day of Pentecost & thereafter! Otherwise; "ACCURSED" (Gal 1:6-9)!

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   Norine Williamsposted 8 years ago

   GOD "IS"  LOVE (KEY): For those who are "IN CHRIST JESUS" (Holy Spirit filled)!   However, if not living according to The Gospel of Christ (one of the reasons HE died), and filled with the Holy Spirit, HE is not so "LOVING!"
   Because HE KNEW there would be unbelief, He stated in Micah 7:6; Matthew 10:31 and Luke 12:51-53 {paraphrasing} "Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division...(v53) The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother..." 
   When TRUTH is given (and IT goes against one's belief), HE stated in Hebrews 4:12 that HIS WORD is "sharper than a two-edged sword, which "cuts"..."  This is what MOST are suffering on HP because they have NEVER been told TRUTH in HIS WORD and with the spirit of SATAN, they attack the messenger rather than (If serious about their salvation) "Searching the Scriptures to see if these things are so" Acts 17:11)!
   Now concerning I John 4:8. In order to get the complete understanding of v8, one must "go back" and start at v6. "We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we "THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH" (Where have we heard this phrase before? John 16:13 "...when "THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH (Holy Spirit), is come, he will guide you into all truth...") and the spirit of error."  Can't you see that one MUST be filled with the Holy Spirit in order to LOVE one another with the LOVE GOD intended?  If filled with the Holy Spirit, the LOVE GOD intended is just one of the by-products to "love your neighbor as thyself," etc.(v7) Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and everyone that loveth (the way GOD intended) is born of God (filled with Holy Spirit), and knoweth God" (Holy Spirit filled)! (v8) "He that loveth not (Love; but as man interprets love but NOT as GOD intended LOVE: "Filled with Holy Spirit") knoweth not God; for God is love!   
   
   Examples of God not LOVING unbelievers are throughout Scriptures (Matthew 23; Mark 11:15; John 2:15, Psalms 2:12, etc).  Prov 6:16-19 "These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, & hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, & he that soweth discord among brethren." Recognize any of these? If displayed by man, do you think GOD IS LOVE and LOVES YOU ANYWAY?

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      Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      What does this mean?: GOD "IS" LOVE (KEY): For those who are "IN CHRIST JESUS" (Holy Spirit filled)! However, if not living according to The Gospel of Christ (one of the reasons HE died), and filled with the Holy Spirit, HE is not so "LOVING!" What?

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      Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Eric: Have u heard "U MOST BE BORN AGAIN" (Jn 3:1-3)! Born again=Filled w/Holy Spirit; then "IN CHRIST!" Otherwise; HE doesn't "KNOW" u! Then you'll KNOW u must live according to The Gospel of Christ as the disciples did in Acts 2 & thereafter!

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      Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Norine -- you cannot have it both ways. Either you believe in the Bible or not. The HS is not here to obliterate the Gospel of Christ according to the Bible.

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      Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      What r u talking? The Holy Spirit is JESUS (Jn 14:26 "...in MY Name...") & so is the Gospel of Christ ("...full of "Grace & Truth") according to John 1:14!
      What r u saying?
      You should KNOW there is ONE SPIRIT & ALL'S Name is JESUS (Phil

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      Kiss andTalesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Yes in Greek that is what it means .
      According to the Jewish scholar David Kimhi (c. 1160-c. 1235 C.E.), the valley was later transformed into a garbage dump for the city of Jerusalem. The place served as an incinerator where fires were kept burning

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      Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Still "sounds like hell or a Lake of Fire" to me! Well WORD LIED when IT said Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today & forever" (Heb 13:8) & HE "killed then" & don't believe, HE'LL "kill now!"

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      Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Explain Revelation 20:10-15 K&T which speaks of the "second death?"

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      Kiss andTalesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      The second death  means no resurrection hope .
      Ps 9:5 You have rebuked nations and destroyed the wicked, Blotting out their name forever and ever.
      Pr 10:7 The memory of the righteous one is due for a blessing, But the name of the wicked will rot.

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      jonnycomelatelyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      You seem to be having lots of fun, criticizing so many good and fair-minded people here.
      How about tell us some real truths about your self.  A bit of Profile writing?  Or are you living a sinful life and afraid to come out of the closet?

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       Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       K&T: But for those that don't make the 1st or 2nd, where do they go?  WORD says "Lake of Fire" w/Satan (Rev 20:10-15)! Why u say diff?
       JL: If "in CHRIST," we are "righteous by FAITH" (Rm 3:22)!  RELIGION teaches "DO" good, "GET" good which is A L

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   gmwilliamsposted 8 years ago

   
   
   There are those of the more conservative, dogmatic, fanatical, fundamentalist, & traditionalist bent who use the bible as a book of judgment. They strongly aver that God is a judgmental, even punishing deity.  They use that approach in their interfacings with others, particularly those who have a different belief system &/or lifestyle than they do.  They refuse to accept that God is love & acceptance.  They furthermore will not acknowledge that God is above all forgiveness.
   
   They may even refuse to read the biblical passages that strongly proclaim that God is love & that the most important commandment is to love others as they love themselves.  They instead use the bible & God as instruments of their supposedly moral superiority over others who aren't like themselves.  They may even go as far to view themselves as God's second in command, dispensing advice, even going as far to ruthlessly convert those who they deemed are on an "errant" or the "wrong" path.  They are quite fond of using hell, damnation, & everlasting punishment in an attempt to get people to believe as they do as their religious path is the only so-called legitimate one.  They have anthropomorphized God to their image, not realizing that God is beyond all human limitations & prejudices.  God is ALL & BEYOND.....

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      Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I like what you have to say but I do not get; "even going as far to ruthlessly convert those who they deemed are on an "errant" or the "wrong" path.

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      Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Norine you complicate the scripture. Please look at the question. Just deal with the one verse please. Please stray on focus here. I will delete diatribes. You are not the Holy Spirit. You must admit you are human. Be one or be gone.

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      Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      If I can't comment TRUTH, I'm out!

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   Rich kelleyposted 8 years ago

   2John 1:3  Grace, mercy, and peace will be with us, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.
   
   I found what happened to Hell and damnation for you. It would be covered in the "truth" part. Love is not a single sided coin, there are two sides to the coin, you cannot have love without truth, and the flip side works as well you cannot have truth without love.
   
   I think everyone has their own definition of love and very often is read into anything we want to turn out the way we want it to. God is love so He will let you turn away from truth and find the hell and damnation. Now not everyone would agree with that definition of love.
   
   Does God love the sinner yet hate the sin? No that is why we are told to repent. If God loved you regardless there would be no need to repent. Hard thing to separate in our minds. We have been programmed that Jesus love me this I know for the bible tells me so. The young or old mind for that matter can't digest then why the repent or parish stuff? So most have just focused on the love and forget the truth.
   
   Many people died because of their sins but only one died for those sins. That sacrifice accepted by God and is given to us as Grace, that cancels the debt we owe. The cancelation of the debt doesn't mean we can go out and run up our credit cards again. A pardon given has stipulations, violate them and back in the jail you go. I think of this as grace refused.
   
   Matthew 18:21-35 shows what happens and what will be taken back.
   
   The story ends this way.
   
   Matthew 18:34  And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him. (so much for grace)

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      Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I do not agree with your idea of love. I have a wife and four children. My love is not conditional as you suggest God's love is. Cite other scripture that came before but Christ spoke and that was the last of that. Did John lie in his account?

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      Rich kelleyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      The greatest of these is Love. What are the others? Could they be the "if you love me you will keep my commandments? Love is again a two way street. You leave out truth and there is no love. Did John lie sounds like someone else we know.

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      tsmogposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      The challenge is time. The problem is the argument presented is principal and technique. Does one fulfill principal with techniques or principal? It is the old argument of the external is proof of the internal and that does not hold water IMO.

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      Rich kelleyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      John 14:21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”  This is conditional

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      Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      So if we look to other scripture we find that God's love is a conditional kind of love? Romans 5:8 - But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

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      tsmogposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Hello Eric. Just a note as suggestive . . . consider the 'self is the 'I' and the 'me' when considering  . . . consideration. Otherwise with arguing w/scripture Q I have 10 hubs outlined for it. It is a fun adventure today. I am thankful for that :-)

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      Rich kelleyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Eric
      No one is saying God doesn't love us. But I am saying there are conditions that most just want to ignore. The "live and let live" will not please the Father very much. I would say that the opposite of love would be hate and God hates.

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      Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Very interesting Rich. What does God hate?

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      Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Prov 6:16-19 {paraphrased} "Pride, liars, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart w/wicked imaginations,1 who runs swiftly to mischief, a witness to lies, & he that soweth discord among brethren."

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       Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Norine -- if ever I saw it; you breed discord. You condemn others, call them Satan and demons and generally curse them. If that is not discord I do not know what is. So God hates you?

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       Rich kelleyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       There are many scriptures.
       Rom 9:13  Even as it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”
       Psalms 5:5  The arrogant cannot stand in your presence. You hate all who do wrong;
       There are tons more.

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       Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       I get it Rich and they are all either from the old testament or for a reason referencing it as you know full well. Christ did not repeat such things. Christ was clearly a new covenant. Your one reference clearly needs context unless you care less.

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       Rich kelleyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Yep that's me I care less. Really Eric? I'll leave you with your question you have heard enough of what you don't want to.

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       Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Hey Rich do not come down on me -- you are the one citing totally out of context and you know it.

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       Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       No he isn't ERIC! U r the one perceiving JESUS as ONE w/no wrath & ALL love w/no consequences! Prov 6:16-19.  GOD HATES: Pride, LIES, discord, killing WORD, wicked LIES, run to mischief, false witness! ALL I give is WORD & u?

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       Rich kelleyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent.

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       Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Well said (Rev 3:19)!  Soooo - "Repent!"

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       Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Rich, I missed this one. God bless you teach me much. I am made better by you. I do not want yes men. You incite thought, if I can do the same I am better, Thank Jesus for you.

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       Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       LOOKS YOU'RE "YESING" RICH PRETTY WELL TO ME! WHAT HAPPENED TO "STUDYING" (II TIM 2:15) TO SHEW YOURSELF APPROVED "BEFORE GOD," RATHER THAN "MAN!"
       O! I FORGET; RELIGION IS "GO ALONE TO GET ALONE!"

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       Kiss andTalesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Jonny is that what you want to contribute to the question since you bring this up. Go right ahead. What ever you want to say about your closet and sin ? But the question to me was about Gehenna.  Not profile writing. Feeling guilty ?

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   cer1056posted 8 years ago

   God is Love - But God also requires you to obey his commandments.
   Does not any good parent Love and yet discipline a child.
   
   If you obey God's commandments you will grow up to be an intelligent  loving mature spiritual being.
   
   I you refuse to obey, you will remain an off balanced immature spiritual child who throws temper tantrums and won't obey.  This is where Hell and Damnation come in.   There are consequences for disobeying.
   
   It's not really that hard to understand.  Spare the rod and spoil the child.

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      Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      TRUE! One deeper: When filled w/Holy Spirit, HE helps us "obey his commandments" automatically! He "grows us" (II Cor 3:18) into Spiritual "Maturity" via our BELIEF & FAITH n HIS WORD! It's so easy (Matt 11:29)!

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      Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      A parent disciplines his child in love. Not condemnation. God is love or He is not. No darned consequences for disobedience. A real parent hurts their child to get a point across? I think not. Consequences are of this world and they are real.

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      Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Eric: U r too IGNORANT of HIS WORD & I can't lv u! U don't condemn daughter when dress up to butt? No consequences for wrong? Child sees as "hurt!" Consequences begin n the home if u teach child correctly!
      U'll say ANYTHING(ignorant)TRYING (Job1

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      Rich kelleyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Eric
      Is not discipline the consequence? If not then why bother? You love your child yet you administer the consequences of disobedience. What is the consequence of sin........death.

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      Aime Fposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      "Obey my every word, no room for compromise or communication, or you get hurt."
      
      In adolescent psychology we'd call this attitude authoritarian and it's actually extremely damaging to a child's attachments later in life.

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      Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I don't read the Bible as a restriction or mandate for God. God can do what God wants to do and to my reading he wants to love. And God always has a choice whether to discipline or not - just like I do with my child.

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      Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Amiee: Using psychology (my major) re: GOD is like trying to mix oil w/water; man v. God; carnal v. Spiritual! Maybe true 2 man, but not GOD!
      Eric:Precisely what's wrong w/RELIGION! They see nothing but love;yet ignore HIS flip side! Consequences!

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      Rich kelleyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      "God can do what God wants to do" and He will He is an If/then God there are mandates as you like to call them and there are consequences. You can read them out but it changes nothing. The trick is to do what He wants and the love will grow.

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      Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      There's no “trick!” GOD (WORD) “never” changes! If 1 does NOT accept the Bible in “Chronological Order,” accepting the fact HE died to effect New Covenant,chose Paul to cont HIS ministry,asked us to follow Paul (I Cor 11:1) r ”ACCURSED”(Gal 1:6-9)!

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       Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       I am sorry to learn you have no children Rich, they are rewarding. No! My children must not do as I command in order to be loved by me. I love them unconditionally and without favor. Do you suggest God does less by quoting out of context?

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       Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Down side to kids too & u know it! If they don’t do as commanded they defy WORD (Eph6:1) whether u love r not & they should suffer "consequences!"
       GOD does not love “unbelievers” (Rev21:8) so “GET IT RIGHT!”

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       grand old ladyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       In my former church they even detailed how to punish the child. 1) hit them with an object, like a wooden spoon. 2) But first,  explain why we are hitting them. 3) Afterwards, hug them and say we love them. But I didn't follow it, and my kid is great

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       Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Scripture says "Spear the "rod," spoil the child" (Prov 13:24).
       "Rod" doesn't nec mean "object," but punishment is necessary, i.e. time out, take away technology, TV, etc.
       Don't u punish ur child, if not, where is discipline (love)?

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       Rich kelleyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Rod; shay-bet
       a scion, a stick, for punishing, fighting, correction.
       Time out, no TV is mans way, the scripture says to use a rod.

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       grand old ladyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Norine,
       From age 1 to 3, my husband would spank her hand and if she was very bad, spank her feet. Just spanking her feet would make her cry, even if it didn't hurt. After 3, we talked to her. She is an adult and has grown up beautifully.

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       Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Rich: Heb 12:6;Prov 3:12! "Chastens!" Punishes=Not beat blk & blue!
       Lady: Ea child's temperament is diff!
       Ft spanking placed "fear" which was enough for her but all children not same & require harsher measures (rod)!
       Lucky u!

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       Rich kelleyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       No one is talking about beatings, the peachtree tea across the back of the legs gets attention. A smack on the rubber pants makes a loud noise that scares more than hurts. Discernment from a Godly person will yield the correct results.

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       Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Did u READ (pls) Heb & Prov? GOD "chastens!"  R U better?
       Stop looking @ WORD in a "literal" sense!  That's YOUR problem!  Can't "see" (for lack of better "carnal" talk) the forest for the trees or Spiritually!

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       Rich kelleyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       "i.e. time out, take away technology, TV, etc."
       Your carnal quote, you are the one with the psy degree from the carnal schools of learning. Careful the finger you point.

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       Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       I know how to "separate" the two!  Do u?
       With WORD = Spiritual!  With Psy = "Carnal!"
       No need to "try" babe!  Cont w/ur Scribe & Pharisees mentality!
       GOD doesn't "play!" 
       (Ps 105:15)

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       Rich kelleyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Psalms 105:15  "Do not touch my anointed ones; do my prophets no harm."
       1. You are not anointed.
       2. You are not a prophet.
       3. Correction is not harm it is good for the soul
       4. stop turning into a hissing spitting viper.

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       Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Rich: When did GOD die & leave u in charge of "Looking @ Hearts?" 
       Now what you have done is TOTALLY "judging!" 
       The only 1 of 4 I can agree w/is #3! Try it!
       I understand though because U didn't "WAIT" (Acts 1:4) so I Cor 2:14 ("foolishness")!

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       Rich kelleyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       What I have done is test the spirits to see if they are of God.
       When someone quotes the don't touch God's anointed they think more of themselves than they should. and threaten "God doesn't play" please.

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       Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       "Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord."
       GOD told me to tell you this!

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       Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       When  the Bible is  used to threaten, deny or forbid. It is a usual gaff in the reader. When it is used to enlighten, promote and preach love it is usually a gift to all who hear it. We do not argue against the Bible, we harken to it's defense.

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       Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       "We do not argue against the Bible.."
       I KNOW! U do NOTHING the Disciples of Christ did or the Bible!
       II Tim 3:16 says WORD is for "..doctrine, for reproof, for CORRECTION, for INSTRUCTION IN RIGHTEOUSNESS!"
       "Twisted belief" wants no part!

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       Rich kelleyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       When someone quotes the bible out of context it is like an echo when it bounces off the canyons, it becomes distorted and looses it's original context. The imagination of our own minds is a dangerous place to live. Don't believe everything you think.

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       Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Buddy, try it again. I lay in the bottom of the Grand Canyon and an echo is  like God talking back. Echo analogies are tricky.

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       Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Neither u when u thk Father & Son r daddy & lil boy! Really? Guess u forget I Cor 12? Eph 4:4-6? Matt 28:20 "OBSERVE" the apostles? REAL DISCIPLES "cont in apostles' doctrine" (Acts 2:42), baptize in Jesus' Name (Acts 2:38)?
       U DO NOTHING und

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       Rich kelleyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       I understand what happens to sound as it passes through different mediums and bounces off objects that bend and change the wave length and the way it sounds. Sometimes it is exactly as transmitted more often than not it gets distorted. Echos are fun.

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       Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       It is all good in the echo. But that is what you and I talk about in quiet contemplation. I got your meaning of a gong that is empty. We find that if we set an empty gong in a place of desert. Nothing gets rung. But if we meditate there life abounds.

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       Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Tell GOD that when u stand before the judgment seat of Christ that HE died in vain because the New Covenant was a "gong" to u guys!
       HELL IS FOR REAL & u will see how much "fun!"

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       Rich kelleyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Much like a lot of the scripture we hear on the forums, the scripture is correct yet like the echo, it gets distorted. There are countless types of sonars that use echo's. The operator must select the correct pulse type to get a good clean return.

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       Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       O! So u deny NC, HS sent (Acts 2:2), command to "Observe" Apostles (Matt 28:20), baptizing in Jesus' Name (Acts 2:38), First Church (our ex) est (Acts), Disciples follow Apostle's doctrine as we should (Acts 2:42), yet claim "Saved?"
       Really?

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       Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Well done with the echo analogy. I like it.

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       Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Eric: O! So u blaspheme THE WORD OF GOD (Holy Spirit)?
       WHAT I'VE STATED "IS WRITTEN!" 
       WHERE DOES THAT LV U (I COR 10:21)?
       "HELL IS FOR REAL" - KEEP GOING!
       REMEMBER: U HAVE MORE DAYS BEHIND THAN AHEAD OF U!  THIS IS NOT "A GAME!"

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       Rich kelleyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       A pot and pan is useful to prepare food in, the purpose it was made for, but when you take pots and pans and use them for cymbals all it does is make a racket and annoy everyone. Some people are just not cooks, they should leave the cooking to others

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       Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Norine, you a quite the gal. I wonder why, when I hear it from you I am not worried in the slightest. I think you are those pans we were just discussing. You should stay out of the kitchen lest you annoy those trying to cook.

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   39. 52

       Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       YOU GUYS:  THE FOOD HAS "ALREADY" BEEN PREPARED" (WORD) & YOU'RE TOO "IGNORANT" TO EAT (I COR 2:14)! 
       U HAVE "FREE WILL" BUT "HELL IS FOR REAL!"
       AGAIN: U HAVE MORE DAYS BEHIND THAN AHEAD, THE CHOICE IS YOURS!

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   40. 62

       Rich kelleyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       As children of the Most High God we have MANY more days ahead than behind. Our glasses are  just beginning to be filled. He will fill our glasses to overflowing. Stop knocking the glasses over or you will have to go sit at the little kids table.

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   41. 52

       Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       "CHILDREN OF "WHO?" DON'T FOLLOW NC BUT "SAVED?" REALLY? NOT ACCORDING TO WORD! (ACTS 2:42)O U? WELL, REALLY? WHEN DEAD, U WONT HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY SO "NOW IS THE TIME!" DON'T THINK U R NOT "ACCURSED" WHEN U DON'T FOLLOW (GAL 1:6-9)! SO WHAT "MANY

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   42. 62

       Rich kelleyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       JUST LIKE A CHILD screaming lots of what they think is right. We are commanded to be AS little children not act like them. Your tantrums on hub pages questions is noted for the childish behavior it is. Until you stop no one will take you seriously.

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   43. 52

       Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       NOT WHAT "I THINK IS RT," BUT WHAT "IS WRITTEN!" "MAYBE" (IF U'D PUT AWAY THAT "EGO") & BECAME AS "A LIL CHILD," U COULD "SEE" TRUTH!
       NO NC, NO OBSRVE APOSTLES, NO BAPTIZE IN JESUS' NAME, NO "WAIT" FOR HS, THEN "LOST" (GAL 1:6-9)!

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       Rich kelleyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       The word EGO is in the King James Bible how many times? Zero, zilch, nada, not at all. Your words betray you. If you have waited where is the HS in your actions/life? Most see the spirit you have. The father of lies has not fooled everyone.

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       Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       YOU ARE "IGNORANT" (SCRIBE/PHARISEE)!  HOW DO U "EVER" FIGURE "YOU(?)" CAN WITHSTAND THE WORD OF GOD(HS)?
       FOOL!  "NOTHING" CAN STOP HIM! 
       I JN 2:16 "..THE PRIDE (EGO) OF LIFE, IS NOT OF "THE FATHER," BUT IS OF THE WORLD."
       YOUR FATHER (JN 8:44)!

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       Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       I just attended an awesome sermon held with other folks who do not go in for traditional services. A big point of the sermon was a notion that the devil knows the Bible better than we ever could. Made me think of someone. Just saying.

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   47. 52

       Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       ERIC: U WOULDN'T KNOW THE DIFF IN THE DEVIL OR GOD IF (OK ME, BE NICE) "STANDING IN YOUR FACE!" 
       U DIDN'T "WAIT!"
       U R WORST THAN RICH WHEN IT COMES TO UNDERSTANDING "SPIRITUAL" THINGS!
       "FOOLS!"
       START STUDYING THEN, DON'T LET HIM BEAT "YOU!"

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       Rich kelleyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       If you tried to explain that this kind of thing actually goes on no one would ever believe it unless they had seen the same spirit some time in their lives.
       
       Mark 9:29  And he said to them, "This kind cannot be driven out by anything but prayer."

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   49. 52

       Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       TRUE! BUT IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THE "SPIRIT" OF DISCERNMENT VIA THE HOLY SPIRIT WHAT I'VE WRITTEN TO ERIC APPLIES TO YOU AS WELL!
       AGAIN, YOU ALL SHOULD HAVE "WAITED" (ACTS 1:4) FOR THE "GIFT" OF DISCERNMENT!

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       Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Wow Norine - so far I count you have the gifts of discernment, love, prophesy, tongues,teaching, discipleship and preaching. Wow you have truly been blessed. Perhaps you should accept one?

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   51. 52

       Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       AT LEAST I HAVE "FAITH" THAT I HAVE, BUT FROM YOUR COMMENTS, YOU DON'T KNOW THEY EXIST!
       YOU SHOULD HAVE "WAITED" THEY'RE AVAILABLE TO YOU TOO!

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7. 72

   Aime Fposted 8 years ago

   I think that someone's nature and mental state play a role in how they interpret the bible... and any book, really. 
   
   I mean, look at any book.  You can choose anything that tells a story and people will read differently into some details because of their experiences, their beliefs, their personality.  Some people even disagree on themes of books which might seem pretty straightforward, but ultimately we are all individuals with many things contributing to what makes us unique and different, and those things spill over into almost everything.  Including how people read into things.  It's amazing, actually, how two people can read the same sentence and have a whole mountain of different thoughts and feelings relating to it. 
   
   Unfortunately, negativity seeps into it just as easily (if not more) than anything else.  Those who are generally unhappy, hateful, and judgmental will be so in almost every part of their life.  They use the bible (or whatever religious text they feel they can relate to) and see the words as a way to justify their nastiness.  That's why you see radical extremists in virtually every religion.  It's a way for those people to project their crap onto a deity, onto something they think is bigger than everyone, as a way to magnify it. 
   
   Some of the kindest, most accepting people that I've ever known are Christians.  Some of the most aggressively judgmental and nasty people I've ever known have been Christians.  They've read the same book, they believe in the same things, and yet... such immensely different people and attitudes.  It all comes down to the person, who they are, really, at their core.

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   1. 52

      Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      ALL books r in "chronological order!" If u KNEW WORD u'd know Jesus born, walked earth, promised HS, DIED, asked us 2 OBSERVE disciples, asked disciples 2 WAIT for HS, sent HS,chose Paul 2 act n HIS Stead, asked us 2 follow disciples!
      That's co! Rt?

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      Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      A very interesting answer and it sure seems accurate to me. Definitely worth considering.

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      Rich kelleyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      If it was about the person we wouldn't need God. When you become a disciple, you become like your master, there will be no difference. The definition of love that counts is His not ours that is dependent on the personality of the person.

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      Aime Fposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      But what you believe is God's definition of love might be entirely different than what someone else believes it is (it's happening right in this post). We are all individuals. That's a fact.

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      Rich kelleyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I agree we are all individuals....................but if we profess to be disciples of Christ we are to become like Him. Everyone can't be right that's why the civil discussion.

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      Aime Fposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I'm not sure it's an issue of right vs wrong but rather doing it your own way and letting everyone else do the same. Though as an atheist I must say I'm much fonder of those who use their religion to spread love and acceptance. 

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   7. 52

      Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Precisely Aimee! TRUTH is LOVE! Again, whether 1 wants to accept or not, the Bible is also a bk & in "co!" MOST do not take that into consideration and totally ignore the current status of where a Christian should live:New Cov following apostles!

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      Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Norine, I cannot find a new testament book where the author rants like you do. Aren't those the apostles and disciples we should emulate? Maybe you should try to write like them.

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      Rich kelleyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Aime
      If a Christian is living as Christ, they should be able to get along with others that may not "believe" as they do. It is the disciples that are to police one another, not all those in the world.

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       Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Rich, darned if I can even police myself. Try as I might I fall short. Yet for me, I still feel the unconditional love. Just my reading of scripture I suppose.

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   11. 52

       Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       I'm so tired of u "Christians" lying saying JESUS was ALL kind, love, w/no "wrath!" Peter was "crazy!" Would cut 1's ear off in second! U portray WORD as u like, but it's a LIE! All you do is perceive WORD as "syrupy sweet" LIES!

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8. 70

   dashingscorpioposted 8 years ago

   
   
   The most fascinating thing about the bible is there is a verse for every point of view. People tend to flock to churches and ministers who (focus) on the scriptures {they deem to be the most important}.
   Some folks love to hear about fire & brimstone, hell and damnation.
   Others tend to go for prosperity and  messages about blessings.
   There's something for everyone!

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      Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you for sharing that with us. Interesting concept.

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   2. 52

      Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      WORD is not McDonald's! ONE TRUTH! Not "my personal GeeZeus!"
      WOW! Where did all these "Christians" come from?
      Why have so MANY been "deceived" by SATAN?  R u that weak? Not "Walking in the Spirit?" Didn't "WAIT?"
      Matt 7:13 "...BROAD is the way...

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      dashingscorpioposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Norine, Are you saying Mark 11-24 is not in (your) bible?
      Are you saying that verse is not true?
      I have said nothing that was not in the bible! I merely explained why people are drawn to different churches.
      All messages are from the same book!

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      Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I think it is not in her bible.

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      Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I was NOT referring to Mk 11:24!
      U LIE when u say "There's something for everyone!"
      There is ONLY "ONE"  TRUTH!
      Same Message to ALL (Eph 4:4-6)!  Holy Spirit (aka JESUS) doesn't tell u 1 thg & me another!  If u blv, it's a LIE!
      Eric: Prov 6:18

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9. 81

   grand old ladyposted 8 years ago

   I think that for them, the most loving thing to do is to spread the gospel. But when you get into the details, it gets "iffy". Because they don't tolerate homosexuality based on the bible for example. So this lack of tolerance is unloving to many of us, but to them, it's loving even if they know they will be criticized for it. Also, it happens when they go to extremes, like this cult that always harasses people at burials. And then they get so into their churches that they really tend to have one view and anything that digresses is not acceptable. So if you are in a church, and you love the Bible, and Jesus, etc., if you speak against the doctrine, like talk about accepting homosexuality, you can be sure you will be eased out of the church as a bad influence.

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   1. 52

      Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      IF one follows Christ, they BELIEVE every WORD in the Bible or I Cor 10:21!
      IT IS WRITTEN and one can't change HIS WORD to suit "self!"
      HIS WORD is NEVER "iffy!"  IF WRITTEN, IT IS SO and IF one doesn't follow, SATAN!

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      Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Mona you make a very valid point. The Episcopal church split right down the middle on this issue. And I think that love was the biggest loser.

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      Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Eric:To agree w/WORD is "iffy," because "some of us find it unloving," is AGAINST WORD! 
      Where does that leave u (I Cor 10:21)?
      IT IS WRITTEN whether perceived "unloving" based on a lifestyle r not!
      WORD won't chg for ANY 1!
      Go alone to get alone?

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      Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Norine, you do not own the only proper interpretation of the Bible. You just don't. And you are not endowed by the Spirit to condemn others that have a different view. You just aren't. Spirit speaks to everyone differently not just your way.

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      Rich kelleyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I'm sure Jesus (love) didn't ask for a vote on Kingdom principles. He stated them and you can follow or as Fleetwood Mac said "go your own way". But if you are in left field don't claim to be at home plate.

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   6. 52

      Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      GUYS: R we not under *NC? R we not 2 OBSERVE disciples? R we not to follow *1st CHURCH? RELIGION err! DON'T FOLLOW "man!" STUDY u'll see! We should CURRENTLY LIVE under NC following *1st CHURCH/ disciples!Rev 21:14;I Cor 3:11;Eph 2:20;I Cor 11:1

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10. 72

    manatita44posted 8 years ago

    God has designed things in such a way, that no two persons are at the same place. Why tell an infant about solid food, when all it knows is its mothers milk? Our views are coloured mostly, by our level of Consciousness. When we are very receptive, things make more sense and when we are low and depressed, things are not so good.
    
    I see so much beauty in the scriptures and especially in the Psalms and Beatitudes. But I am devotional in nature. Some are very intellectual, meaning that they are stuck in reasoning/separation/analysis/division, others again are very active in service, like the Quakers. God is using us all in different ways.
    
    There are really guidelines for speeding up spiritual progress: Prayer, Faith, Love, service, being open to one's neighbour and love of mankind ...most people find this very difficult. But again, it is the spiritual practices that will give us the strength. Nothing can be achieved without Grace, and Grace 'hides' if the mind is too restless, judgemental and self-sufficient.
    
    So they have eyes to see, but do not see, and ears to hear but do not hear, because their Hearts are not sufficiently mature or 'hardened' as the Christ said. So they are book-orientated all right, but lack the Heart's purity and childlike qualities. Much Love, my Brother.

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       Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       ERIC, I give WORD & if you have "no respect" for what HE'S SAID; "DELETE, but there are "consequences" & I've given Scriptures (Ezek 3:18; Rm 14:13-23; Lev 19:17; Titus 1:13; I Pet 4:17; +)!  Do what u feel makes u "a man" & FORGET GOD!

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11. 60

    Kiss andTalesposted 8 years ago

    Interesting question what happened to Hell.
    Its a wonderful thought to know that our Heavenly Father is loving and kind. He is the greatest in the meaning of what love really means.
    First he could have created another human pair and start all over .
    He did not. If he had done so we would not be here today.
    So even though Adam and Eve betrayed their own creator .The Father did not betray us as their children.
    He saved us.
    
    That tells us something about his compassion and mercy.
    There is no way with these qualities he would torture and burn anyone in a Hell fire.
    He holds the power of our existence .If he wanted us all dead he could easily take our life force back.
    Not the case at all.
    The word hell is a man made doctrine.
    Even in Hebrew and Greek it's is 'sheol'
    'Hades' Gahanna , these words are related to the grave
    Not a place of torture.
    Certain words were used as picture stories so that people could understand the meaning of a point.
    Gehenna was actually a garbage dump where things were burned or disposed of forever.
    Jesus used illustrations to teach.
    
    Mt 13:34 All these things Jesus spoke to the crowds by illustrations. Indeed, without an illustration he would not speak to them,
    
    This is why he uses the word fire ! Because fire is not revived. Completely destroyed as to not exist again.
    Jesus was saying there will be people that will not return after their death. No resurrection hope for them.
    Just as fire destroys something completely it can not return to its former state of living.
    The worse thing that can happen to a human is death eternally.  To never  live again and be forgotten.

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       Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       "Gehenna was actually a garbage dump where things were burned or disposed of forever." Sounds like "hell" to me!
       Heb 13:8 GOD SAME as in OT! HE had WRATH then & does NOW!  Don't let translations fool u!

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       Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Norine, you read the Bible in English and you read the version from a King of England. How can you say "don't let translations fool you"?

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    3. 52

       Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       ERIC, the Holy Spirit TELLS US what is rt or wrong, not "a book!" JW'S NWT say re I Tim 2:5 "a man" vs KJV "THE MAN" as though ANY man vs THE man ONLY JC!  Transl lead to wrong "interpret" IF no HOLY SPIRIT!  W/O "read the ltr" (II Cor 3:6)!

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       Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       K&T, thank you for your most insightful response. I always get something worthy of consideration when you write.

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    5. 52

       Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Only "man" relates to "man" or "carnal!"  I Cor 2:14;3:2-3 "But the natural man recvth not the thgs of the Spirit of GOD, for they r foolishness to him..." I couldn't speak to u as spiritual, but as carnal, even as BABES in CHRIST...& walk as men

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       Kiss andTalesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Eric thank you for your most kind and upbuilding comment.
       Its about truth Some people make it about their ego !ego means nothing to the Heavenly Father.
       That is why people act one way and cuss out the other side of their head.
       Stop pretending N!

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       Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       K&T, your point is well taken. I believe really getting rid of the ego is a pipe dream of man. One who says he is without is like the man denying he sins or has no doubt. It is the battle against the ego that is important so that it is not king.

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    8. 52

       Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       BOTH of u are IGNORANT of WORD!  BOTH KNOW NOTHING of the NEW COVENANT or u'd KNOW Paul said "dung" (aka Bull "Shit"!). Now if ur NWT says something else "refuse" then Believe that as u do other "twisted" words therein!
       Eph4:14!
       GROW UP!

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       Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       It is rare that someone actually confesses to thinking everyone else is wrong except for them. The mother sees her son one step ahead in a marching band and declares -- everyone else is out of step except for my son.

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    10. 52

        Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Did WORD not say u & I speak "DIFFERENT LANGUAGES" & so does ANYONE ELSE who doesn't KNOW the HOLY SPIRIT (K&T)?  I Cor 2:14 says this & doesn't LIE!

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    11. 60

        Kiss andTalesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        The second death is
        Rev 20:6
        Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ,and they will rule as Kings with him for a thousand years

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    12. 45

        Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Norine -- one more time - no more net shouting and screaming on my questions or hubs -- I will not delete your comments just your comments with all caps.

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12. 74

    word55posted 8 years ago

    Foul language should not be allowed here on Hub Pages. A Christian should not speak foul language Norine.

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       Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       You wouldn't know what a "Christian" was if he bit you in the behind!  Your "disrespect" for the WORD of GOD indicates that! You don't care what HE SAID just what u believe!

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       Aime Fposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       I can't imagine what it's like to be SO intolerant of everyone else around you.  Don't you get tired, Norine? I get tired just reading what you're saying. So much negativity and aggression.

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       Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Ask JESUS that as HE "tore up the Temple" or was HE "tolerant?"  Yes, there's "much negativity and aggression" until a child "learns" as it is for "BABES in CHRIST"(I Cor 3:1-3)! If one wants to be "IN CHRIST" & 2 lazy to READ, 1 MUST tell emTRUT

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       Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       I had some buddies grow up in Catholic school. Sounds like Norine would fit right in with the nuns. There are a heck of a lot of similarities. Oh yes, non of the buddies practice their faith anymore.

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    5. 52

       Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       "faith" in what?  I must BELIEVE what HE SAID in order to have "FAITH" or it's as if having "faith" in a nail which creates a "DEAD RELIGION" & disgruntlement!

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       Aime Fposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Negativity and aggression don't usually make for very productive learning.

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       Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Norine you seem hell bent on being nasty and ugly. You make me ashamed.
       Do your normal rant about if I do not follow Your word - Which must be God's I am not a Christian and I will go about deleting all your comments.

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    8. 52

       Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Well, Aime if teacher (WORD) says 2+2=4; but u insist it ='s 5, what then? Give WORD elsewhere or give example it ='s 4!  SAME w/CHRIST!  Repeat, repeat, repeat until 1 learns it ='s 4!  You can't chg it as one can't chg WORD but "taught" different!

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    9. 72

       Aime Fposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Believing in a god(s) isn't nearly as simple as 2+2=4. Simplifying it to that extent is ludicrous.

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        Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Norine, I am old school. I was taught and actually had input on establishing netiquette going back to the mid 90's. All caps is shouting/yelling and it is rude not to mention crude. Starting now I will delete if you shout.

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    11. 52

        Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Just a comparison, Aime!
        Eric: U would "delete" TRUTH if I didn't do what u perceive as shouting but I'm placing emphasis; not SHOUTING! 
        U can allow Satan to "delete" BUT Matt 24:14;Ezk 3:18 is TRUTH!
        "Netiquette?" Society says AGAIN?

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        Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Those are the rules Norine -- take it or leave it.

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    13. 72

        Aime Fposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        It's a comparison that suggests that you are correct beyond any reasonable doubt which is most definitely not the case. You can offer ppl info but if they don't believe it's correct (and you can't offer proof that it is) then you need to back off.

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13. 0

    snapcracklepopposted 8 years ago

    Because all they have is head knowledge and they haven't taken the scriptures concerning God being a God of love seriously. Others, see the terrible conditions in the world and feel that God is not a God of love, because if He was a God of love, wouldn't He do something about all the suffering in the world?....
    
    Many don't realize that God IS doing something about the terrible conditions in the world, but not in the way most people expect.....People are being educated earthwide to know the true God and His will and purpose for obedient mankind and the earth (John 17:3, 1st Timothy 2:4)

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       Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Good answer. God does work in mysteriously wonderful ways.

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