God which Abraham is credited to have invented was involved in many mass murders like killing of human beings and all other species barring his favorite noah .
God also killed his own son and is said to later do stunt of bringing son back...But for six hours his son suffered and is said to have got killed.
Do you think such god should be tried in court for murdering his own son?
I have never read such nonsense in my life.
@humming now u read it ....now please answer...if an entity wipes out entire species for what so ever reason...is it justifiable?.....shouldnt that entity be booked in civilized court and tried?...how can such mass murdering be allowed to go scot free?....
i understand god is mere concept ,cant be tried but atleast we can debate on morality of such god who claims to be all loving...
pisean - Hypothetically speaking, your theory holds validity in the world of law as we know it. Also as we know it, the winner of any war is the one who gets to write the history of same. That is enough to 'justify' the alleged actions of the victor, in this case, God.
Since, however, the alleged crimes of the defendant, God, have not only been written into history of said wars and genocide, but have also been written by the defendant, whose rules by which these engagements took place, I would say you have no case. There is nothing written by the creator of these rules that says any laws were broken.
I point to 'People v U.S.Congress' where the makers of law (Congress) are not bound by, subject to, or accountable for any action which has taken place or will take place under any circumstance due to the nature of any law they have created or may create in the future.
In other words, they created a law whereby they are exempt from any jurisprudence by any court in any land. It's the same with the God to which you refer. He's made himself exempt.
Since God is a middle easterner and has taken part in terrorist acts, for thousands of years, his rights are subject to termination under the patriot act. Case not closed.
So God can be tried as a terrorist or a war criminal in the case where religion loses under science, hence why religious folk do whatever they can to fight against the laws of reality for which science looks to uncover. And since god contradicts the laws of reality once everyone accepts reality Gos can be tried as a war criminal. Until then God can be tried as a terrorist. I feel like we are fighting against Osama Bin Laden here.... Or Hitler. Maybe God will have the good sense to kill himself like hitler did.
How does an "immortal" being off itself?
The concept of God, if it is to have any credibillity of fact, then has to be give a corpus. Once you have a body, metaphorical or otherwise, you can do with it as you would do with a person. Look up the definition for incorporation, you'll see what I mean.
Most excellent point. Of course, this assumes we have any authority in the Kingdom of God. And, if I'm not mistaken, the definition of a corporation as used in a court of law, is a U.S. law, not an international law. So, once again, in this hypothetical case, Kingdom law trumps international law.
At worst, He can claim political asylum or diplomatic immunity.
So, acting "Godly" is not something which is now considered legal or a good thing, right?
Even i, who tend to thrive on nonsense, must agree that this is one of the worst religious threads ive seen on hp
I'm not sure I understand your reasoning. Humans crucified Christ. I suppose, it could be argued that God could be tried if there were good sumaritan laws in place at the time, since you could claim that God could have stepped in and stopped it; but I don't think Rome had any such laws on the books.
Well, it would make sense if God and his "son" were separate; however, the Christian asserts that both are the same, yet different! So could God be tried for sacrificing himself to himself?
You can be tried for suicide. But there was no real death, so I don't think God could be tried for anything based upon the murder of Jesus.
Christians assert it, the Bible does not. It all depends on how you look at it really.
Sooner - Exactly. No body. No evidence. Witnesses for both the defense and the prosecution.
Even if God and Jesus were the same person, God didn't kill Jesus, the Romans who crucified him did. However, God is guilty of being a mass murderer, the great floods or sodom and gomorrah and turning that poor woman to salt for witnessing the crime. Kill the witnesses. Except the Bible documents all his crimes. It's like finding the diary of this serial killer. A confession.
How do you kill a mortal to begin with? And if your going to come back, then your not really dieing in the first place, your just taking a temporary reprieve. When you know it's going to happen, it's suicide. And when you know your going to come back from it, your mocking yourself by calling it a sacrifice.
Maybe it was Jesus' plan to be killed but testimony is not evidence. God's very existence is in question and the testimony that Jesus was who he claimed to be or they he was even an actual person is in question.
If Jesus existed and wanted to claim to be god all he would really need to do is be a good magician. Ask any good magician if he could imitate any of Jesus' so called miracles in that time period and he will say of course. Hence why a certain magician is also an outspoken atheist.
Jesus went to the cross willingly. There is the trinity, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost. Jesus is God in the flesh. He told the deciples that when you see me you also see the Father. The Holy Spirit is Gods voice. I know one thing for sure, unless you give your life completely to God, he will not speak to you until it is too late for you to decide otherwise. He is not interested in hearing a person who constantly attacks Him and questions His authority.HE does not have to argue with anyone about who He is or what He does! He will not waste His time on people who do not love Him and believe in Him totally!!!!!!!! Moses did not argue with him, neither did Abraham or Paul or Peter, nor Mary Magdalene. Nor the deciples. None of them attacked His authority like I see on these sites in discussion about Him. Many of you sound like the Pharasees. They were some that attacked his authority, as well as the Romans and others. I wonder where they are now. Remember the beggar in heaven who was sitting under the table begging for the crumbs, when in life on earth he was a similar type. After he died he was sorry and his tongue was burning and he begged to be able to tell his family that he did wrong by disbelieving Jesus and wanted to warn them that not to do what he did, and be put in eternal hell and never be able to be tormented. Why do you thing that was told to us? I believe it was a warning!!!
Have you even read the bible? Off hand i know both moses and abraham argued with god, moses more than once
Read your own book before you spout nonsense
Mythology is fun to read but silly to believe to be true.
There needs to be a better word than mythology to describe such things..I read up on what that word means not long ago and it sounds like garbage.
No because he brought him back to life again, so the case will be thrown out of court
Yeah, that's true. It's hard to convict someone of murder if the plaintiff is able to attend the trial.
Then, according to pisean's logic, God should have been held as a heretic, a sorcerer.
If I shot my sister and kept her alive with cpr, long enough to be fully resusitated and make a full recovery, I'd still be charged with a crime.
Yes, but once again you're using human law and logic. If we were in a real court of law, we would have to take into evidence all the facts as we know them. In this case, the facts are that no one actually saw God kill Jesus, no one but Jesus himself can testify as to the orders given by God, although there were witnesses for the prosecution, there were also witnesses for the defense who claim to have seen a fully functioning, live Jesus after the crucifixion.
With no fingerprints or other evidenciary material, there is no real case. It's all circumstantial.
But it was merely the identical twin of Jesus who had been in hiding, only to show up after the death of Jesus and give the impression of a miracle. I read this in an old book in which this author also said he was inspired by god. If he said it, it must be true.
But if anyone doubts this they can simply prove it wrong and I'll apologize. Oh, and the author is dead now, but no deader than those who were inspired to write the other numerous old books. I don't really know what his real name is and if I'm not mistaken, the story was told to him by someone who was actually there. I believe the twin brother's name was Chris.
I think it's really funny that your last name is God win. Nothing personal.
ahh..then it must have been a conspiracy! God knew it was going to happen and let it happen, therefore he's just as guilty. By the same token, he's guilty of every murder thats ever taken place because he knew they were all going to happen and let them happen.
So every time someone gets murdered it's Gods fault? I think not. Free will.
God knows it's going to happen and has the free will to intervene and stop it, and does not. That would make him a sadist.
Free will is only free as long as there are no conditions applied to it. Eternal Paradise and Eternal Damnation sounds like conditions to me.
So you think God should intervene every time somebody does something wrong?
If he's going to lay down rules and laws to follow (the bible) then it is his job to make sure that they are followed. So yes, he should intervene.
so every time somebody breaks a rule or attempts to do such, God should just step in and make everybody do exactly what he wants us to do like were just a bunch of chess pieces on a board with absolutely no control whatsoever.
I don't think anybody would consider those the actions of a just or righteous God, and certainly not a Christian God.
So God does allow people to have their own free agency, but when we sin we die spiritually. hence we can not enter into the presence of God. I guess we would need a mediator.
Or something like that.
According to every Christian I've seen so far, we are just a bunch of chess pieces on a board. We are either being manipulated by God or Satan to do this or that. Just like Vector going around calling everyone who doesn't tow the Christian party line a liar for Satan. You expect me not to come out with something perfectly reflects the overall Christian attitude that is presented here?
God doesn't allow anyone to have their own free agency. If he did, then people would strive for knowledge and reasoning instead of giving into self delusions. We wouldn't need a priest or a book to tell us what to do because we would eventually come to such things ourselves. Instead though, that has not been the case. Instead we are told to believe in God, listen to God, do what God tells us to do. Sounds like a severe LACK of free agency to me, but of course those indoctrinated cannot seem to see that.
The acts of a Just god is to up hold that which they think is Justice. Not to let people wonder around doing whatever they want just because he's to lazy to do anything about it. As righteous simply means wonderful, I have hard time believing any sadistic being is wonderful, whether they claim God hood or not.
+1 "Free will" cannot exist if god is responsible for both temptation and redemption. If god created all then this includes evil as well. I started a thread a while back entitled Who Tempted Satan and it went on for 500 or so posts with all sorts of excuses for god creating evil. It's good for a few chucks if you have the time.
And therein lies the difference of opinions. I see that you refer to God as a sadistic being. I have yet to see an atheist who doesn't harbor anger towards God despite the assertion that he supposedly is nonexistent.
I certainly would think that anyone who says that God is less powerful than Satan is far from being a Christian and likewise has never actually read the Bible.
The fact remains that people do have the capability to exercise their own free agency in order to choose one path or the other.
Now you may think that God and Satan make the choice for you but that is your own set of beliefs and I disagree with you. Strange thing I was under the assumption that you were an unbeliever.
I'm not an atheist. Your just jumping to conclusions.
When did I say anything about God being less powerful than Satan? Sounds like your wondering off into wishful thinking.
Yes, the fact remains that people have the right to choose to do whatever they choose to do. This directly negates what the Bible says though, since people in the Bible are COMMANDED to do things.
God and Satan don't actually play a part in my beliefs. I don't believe any part of Christianity. And you should know the saying about assumption right?
Ok dude It was an assumption not an accusation. Anyhow the point is yes he commands people to abide by his precepts in order to return to his presence, and yet allows for people to make their own decisions and choose for themselves the path they wish to go down.
No he doesn't. He promises that if you obey and serve him you can have eternity in paradise. He also promises that if you don't do as he says and you don't follow him, then you can spend eternity burning. Where is the actual choice there? The only choice your being given is listen and obey and you can have paradise, or make your own choices instead of doing as told, and you can burn forever. If it was truly free choice, you would be offered paradise even if you made your own choices, instead of burning for ever.
Yes really! "Free Will" means no threats of harm to influence one's choices. Threatening someone with burning in hell if they don't act in a certain manner is an influence on which choice one makes.
Reverse the threats with god promising eternal suffering and Satan offering paradise, and your choice of which to follow might change. Free will--if there ever were to be such a thing--is always contaminated by certain consequences.
So if God offered you nothing but pain and suffering for eternity for choosing him, and obeying him, then you would still choose to serve him? Knowing beyond the shadow of a doubt that no matter what you did, you would continue in pain and suffering for eternity? I seriously doubt that, I seriously doubt that any one would follow him. Oddly enough, I just realized that I'm holding this same battle elsewhere in the forums as well. If you'd like to you can read what I said there as well.
Sometimes you just can't reason with culturally, communally and socially conditioned bible robots.
Yes, yes, brainwashed bible robot.
Honestly I think if you read what the Bible says about those who sin or go against God's will then we are all in trouble, since we all do it.
Hell however, which is always depicted as a place where little devil guys in red jumpsuits stab you in the hind quarters for eternity and other embellishments that get thrown into the mix such as the underworld in Dante's inferno simply is not supported by the Bible.
When you see words like Tartaro (only applied to fallen angels), Hades (place of the dead), and Gehenna (Valley of Hinnon) are used in the text, it is important to study the meaning and their intended applications if you are going to insist on criticizing them.
Didn't say anything about a brainwashed bible robot, though that statement interestingly reflects what you think about yourself.
I have read it, and to be honest, we are all screwed if you take Jehovah or Yaweh, as the one and only supreme authority in the universe.
As for a hell reference, you have Deuteronomy 32:22 which says "For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains." It seems to have a pretty clear description of what hell might be like here. Also you hear about hell and pain in Psalms 116:3 which reads "The sorrows of death compassed me, and the pains of hell gat hold upon me: I found trouble and sorrow." Again, hell is equivlating with pain here.
I'm not jumping to conclusions here, I'm merely using what is written to describe the outcome of a situation.
This ridiculous extreme is not an option.
The pain and suffering was all done on the cross.
Firstly, it's a what if scenario, it has nothing to do with options. You of course, can not possibly understand this.
Secondly, There was no suffering on the cross. An immortal being cannot kill itself and cannot know the sufferings of mortal men. Jesus was not born as a mortal man, did not live the life of a mortal man, and death itself had no hold on him. (If you take the bible as fact.) Therefore, how could he ever know the true suffering of mortal men? It's not suffering to die when you know that your coming back and the pain is only temporary. Only lack of a rational thought process admits to such a thing.
The concept of good and evil comes to play. Only the perfectly good can enter heaven. If left to ourselves we can never be perfectly good. You can make your own choices but you can never attain that goodness.
No one could say anything about whether or not God exists at that point, and therefore most of this debates would never take place. The Just to begin with. Secondly, if God is going to lay down laws and rules, then it is his Job to enforce them. Just like here in the US. The Government laid down laws and rules, and then established an agency that's dedicated to doing nothing but enforcing them.
1 Samuel 12:14 reads "If ye will fear the Lord, and serve him, and obey his voice, and not rebel against the commandment of the Lord, then shall both ye and also the king that reigneth over you continue following the Lord your God."
Jeremiah 26:13 reads "Therefore now amend your ways and your doings, and obey the voice of the Lord your God; and the Lord will repent him of the evil that he hat pronounced against you."
Twice we are shown that you MUST obey (probably more but I don't feel like looking it up). Even then it is implied that you must first believe in him.
Who's concept of Good and Evil? God's? Jesus's? Your's? Mine? The concept of good and evil varies by person. Some people seeing stealing as an unforgivable form of evil. Some people see murder as an unforgivable evil. Others see sex as an unforgivable evil? Who makes the call on what is Good and What is Evil? No divine entity has presented itself to tell us what is good and what is evil. Instead we are left to our own to make these choices for ourselves. You say if left to ourselves we can never be perfectly good. Problem with that is, you can't say that we need a divine entity which is guilty of just as much evil, to tell us what is perfectly good either. We can only decide for ourselves what our Idea of perfectly Good is, then try to achieve it.
That is not true. You are not told to believe in God or obey. It is your choice. If you want you can believe God and obey Him. Nobody is thrusting that down your throat.
You know what that would not change anything. You would then have a God who would interfere in everything you think and do and then will sit on a hub and complain about not having freedom. Those who are going to complain and mock will do say anyway.
"I don't think anybody would consider those the actions of a just or righteous God, and certainly not a Christian God"
But the world as it is today is the action of a just and righteous God?
IMO, both arguments are flawed.
If god is omniscient then free will does not exist.
I don't think there's a court with jurisdiction.
Is there a judge that wouldn't laugh at the case file?
What would the arrest report look like?
Suspect was seen fleeing earth at a high rate of speed, we attempted to pull the offender over on numerous occasions. We did a PIT maneuver and subdued the suspect. Suspect had a prior and was wanted for questioning, on a charge of infanticide. When suspect struck an officer down where he stood, we applied restraints. The only description we can give of the suspect, is that he's really strong (Possibly high on PCP), has no marks or scars and doesn't appear to exist at all.
Also, suspect appeared to be psychotic, as he kept insisting that he had committed no crimes, although he authorized his crimes to be published in a document---a document which he stands by.
Let's say, just for the sake of argument, that highly sophisticated aliens decided to humanely take over planet Earth. They would keep all humans safe, fed, sheltered, and free from harm. We could do whatever we want to do within the confines of the parameters they have defined for us, the camps in which we must live.
Breaking any of their laws, however, would find the perpetrator subject to death. How would you defend against these invaders? They are far more powerful they we and our law has no jurisdiction over them nor do they care about such laws.
I guess I'd have to bide my time, until I could figure out a sollution to my plight. We, like the universe in which we reside, change. We have the abillity to adapt and change, thus we have a chance to compete, as it is with all life. It must compete with chance and choice, reason and fluke...
You mean like when christians murdered the Native Americans and took their land? Purposely gave them diseases, cut off women's private parts and strung them on rifle barrels like donuts? Sorta righteous in that manner? Yes, it all sounds very godly. Might makes right!
Should god be tried?
But think it happened 2000 years before, and Jesus is the illegitimate son of god, and this fellow was going around calling himself the son of god and embarrassing god, so as per the rules of that time god can kill the son. The only hitch I see is a son is supposed to be stoned to death not crucified, minor technicality.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh you made my day, that is a funny one!
A soldier goes to battle and kills hundreds of people. Should he not be tried?
I must also agree with others that this is a silly post.
@augustine if soldiers killing other people like god of abraham , he/she faces trial....why do we see uproar regarding killing in syria or srilanka?....god went on massive killing....god as concept can be tried...obviously god should exist to try physically....but this very concept called god who kills in mass , must be debated and trial is one of such ways...
How can any Christian accept this thread?
All the while they were raising the bible and the hero of bible as the epitome of morality, yet is shown clearly that he is the most immoral fellow.
Now I'll attempt to answer your question. I've 2 answers(actually part 1 & 2)
1. These are holy secrets which man is not supposed to know(a selected few who eat from other people's toils can know about it if they shut themselves in a room for a few hours praying and eating beef and pork, of course).
2. You didn't read the proper book in which some of this truths and historical facts are revealed- the harry potter. You see killing helps one divide his soul and then gain immortality. But god did repent, though he carried it a little too forward and killed himself (though how an immortal can kill himself is an enigma to me, but I told you it is a secret) so that he will not have to sent himself to hell. The only side effect is now his soul can work independently(called holy spirit).
Didn't understand? That is because you are human and cannot understand divine justice!
Another Murder Mystery that has not been solved for 2000 years, just like 80% of murder today that do not get solved. It's an an endless animosity tradition that continue to haunt many today. I think it's best to put it in the the hands of Amnesty International Human Rights
Murder is a mental illness
Man's standard of morality not good enough to measure God's morality. For example you if you have to say that God was immoral your standards of morality must be high. This evidently does not seem so. Because you don't seem to realize that there is anything wrong in mocking someone. With such standards you should not even be talking about God's morality.
Do mentally ill people go to heaven? Because that is what murder is
Many challenged God in the bible
If that is a dog talking Jomine it is understandable barking!!!!!!!
No you can't bring the concept of god trial because you do not fully understand the concept of God mentioned in the Bible. And you necessarily need to understand a concept properly before bringing it to trial.
@augustine and u surely fully understand it...right?...ok then explain....god creates human...gives free will..right?....now god knows future....future knowing god knows very well how humans would choose...loving god then one fine day decides , enough is enough and sends flood to wipe out entire human race ...now this human race included kids from 1 day to 5 years who know nothing about what sins their elders did...still loving god kills them....now god also kills all other speices for fault of humans?....really amazing great concept....not such a unreasonable , arrogant , ruthless being demands just behaviour from his creation while himself being unjust?...amazing...wait a minute by any chance do u think lucifier wrote bible?
u said man's std of morality are not good enough to judge god morality...you are right ...even worst human being cannot be as brutal as god of Abraham...any wicked man would have better moral practices than this god...
Like I said you do not understand the concept of God. That is why you keep piling up such nonsense. Only if you understand the concept (or God is) will you understand His behavior. Otherwise you will never understand the behavior and you will spend your life (or rather waste it) questioning behavior of God.
@auguestine nonsense means something which doesnot make sense like god of abraham...give me logical answers to what i stated rather than defending ruthless acts of ur god....u can waste ur time worshipping such god which never makes sense , in end its ur life ....
You don't seem to understand. You are asking me to explain God's behavior. You are approaching it from the wrong direction. You need to understand the God ( or the concept of God) and then His behavior will be plain to you. You have got it all mixed up. That is why I said you can ask these questions all your life.
Did you say defend!!? Defend what?? You mindless claim and affirmation that my God is ruthless? I don't need to defend that at all.
@augustine u claim u understand god...dont u...then explain this behaviour of god...from where i see is natural course of justice....from that view obviously god which kills kids for sin of elders is ruthless...god which kills other animal species for sin of one species call human is ruthless...
now you understand god...so definately you are in better position to explain behaviour of god...so please explain...
You don't understand God. I do. I can explain his behavior. But since you don't understand who God is you just do not have the capability to understand even I do explain. To explain to you is futile.
@auguestine u can try...in end u r explaining ur understanding about your god....may be i lack capability of understanding ur understanding of ur god...but since i lack it , isnt it your privileged job to enlighten me?....
The only people making such a claim are clearly living in a distorted reality...Spouting off nonsense, while having no idea of what they are even asserting.
You don't understand God. The only thing you understand is that you fear a 2000 year old book of childish, brutal fairytales.
You can't understand a god because one does not exist. Only a real consistent and non hypocritical god can truly be understood, and we can't have that if we want you to worship our nonexistent god.... Right?
Per ca-pita for murder God's flood would have been millions of times worst than Hitlers murders. Plus Hitler's Nazi Troops displayed on their belt buckles,
:God is with US:
Why would God kill you?, because he loves you. Same answer for when most people get torture for eternity in Hell, Why? because God love you
What is there to understand???
In the first place, God's people, the Jew's divorced God over 50 times in the old testament. They were evil, arrogant, back biters, unbelievers, Idolitors, hormongors, and would not listen when God commanded them to do something for their own good! That is why they spent 40 years wandering in the desert. Because of their disobedience to God. That is why God brought death upon many. They questioned God's authority constantly. He is our creator. He deserves our every praise. Without His creation of us we would not be here. How does anyone have the audacity to question God and who He is? If anything we should be on our knees praising and thanking HIm for our life! If you want some answers about all these questions that you think are important then ASK God he will answer them!!! Or are you scared to ask God? Maybe He will just tell you what you want to know! He tells me!!! His word the Bible tells us the only way to the father is thru the Son. Did you call upon Jesus lately?????
@boni god's people...hmmm so god is baised too...anyways so all the world payed prices for what jews did?...did India, China, Egypt , Greece, Iran all constantly question god's authority and where punished or did it apply to jews only?
Your one way to God would not make good sense. Love is based on Good Sense and Kindness and a one sided God is always lacking in both areas, according to your ancient spirituality.
Basely spirituality is about the unknown and source of good intention since the mass amount of people have good intentions, we are all god. That way I can treat you and everybody else with the same high energy respect as I do with all other gods
Your idea of the Jews sounds like every single member of the human race, you and other Christians included. Also you sound like a nazi.
If a soldier kills under orders it is the responsibility of the commanding officer, if in the heat of battle then it is justifiable self defense on both ends... However if anyone kills anyone that is defenseless or without justification by law then that person is guilty of murder even if this person was the author of such law.
That reminds me of the commandment "Thou Shalt Not Kill"...
Yet it's ok for God to kill people...interesting
Sort of like the Royals of old and some dictators of today. They kill at their will. So their will be done.
The lyrics to war pigs, sums it up perfectly. The soldiers do the bidding of their masters and only their masters know why.
Yes, but look at what happened to them. The very people they reigned over turned against them and killed them as soon as the opportunity presented itself.
The only people who could be blamed for killing Jesus are the Romans, not any of the Jews and not God (according to what the Bible says) all though God could be convicted as a mass murderer for the floods, destroying certain cities, turning certain people to salt, or causing natural disasters.... though I am not interested in convicting a fictional character for fictional crimes.
I'm not sure if turning someone into a pillar or salt is actually against the law, and I'm pretty sure rainmakers are safe, too.
So turning someone into salt is not terminating their life? Is salt alive? If I melt you down with acid does that also not count? You are no longer a human body, just a puddle of toxic sludge. Does that redeem me or do I have to be God in order for me to murder someone And consider it "not murder". It's why if god did exist I would probably NOT worship him. I don't worship my Parents. They created me. (that is a fact)
While there are some pretty odd laws on the books (can't fish from camel back, for instance) and some pretty stupid efforts at making laws (pi=3.00) I don't think there is a law anywhere specifying that you must not turn a person to salt. There would also be the problem of proving just who did it and how it happened...
Calm down, artblack01 - I didn't mean to micturate in you cornflakes. Just a little humor, that's all.
Ha ha, point taken however isn't turning any life form into a non living thing still constitute murder? Think about it. What are we made of after all. Salt is one of those elements....
So we could be turned to ashes, but not by other humans, only by God.
You mean we can't set other human being on fire? Wow, what were the Nazis doing that whole time?
artblack - Magic spells are always reversible with more magic.
Magic is an illusion. There is nothing magic about magic, it is slight of hand. Spells don't exist.
Now burning someone and turning them to ash or melting someone with acid or any other chemical process that is possible is also not reversible by any means.
haha. I think this would be great to see. The guy is obviously insane, so a plea of insanity would get him off the hook with a lighter sentencing. Not justice. But then again, its always been JUST US. The winning side that is.
Clearly, you don't understand who God is and that He always has been. I suggest you read the Bible, and know of it's content before you ask such questions of nonsense....unless you are trying to get a rise out of some people....Abraham didn't invent God, God created all, and his Bible says why he created and why things went the way they did....His son had a reason and purpose for dying on the cross, God had a reason for creating mankind. Read the Bible....
@suebee obviously ur premise is bible is truth....god invented etc....so definitely it would look nonsense to u , like god which abraham invented looks nonsense to me... but from same book comes story of noah and flood...loving god killed innocent kids for sin of adults...loving god also killed all other species for sin of humans...now do u think such act cannot be tried?....if yes...what moral right does god have in judging people?....is it I can do anything but i would punish u for reasons best know to me?....
Coming to his son had reason and purpose for dying on the cross...so?...if u ask any killer he/she would have reason for killing?...so is killing worth justifying?....god might have had most valid reasons for killing in noah's flood...but does that validity justify murder ?
I've read the bible, was raised Christian, went to sunday school, went to church twice a week and I can tell you that I am 100% certain god is a being that humans made up to explain what they did not understand... And to keep the masses in line.
art - I can agree with you on part of this. I don't think God is something humans made up, but the form they have given him is probably off the mark. We humans have always had the same powers as the God of the Christians. This is what the Bible is trying to teach. Given the right circumstances and allowed to remember what we are, we come to realize we are all God, a part of the same.
"Keeping the masses in line" was a ploy allegedly initiated by Christian authority hundreds of years after Jesus' death. Many writings have been discovered which do not coincide with the chosen writings in today's Bible. The church knew of these and not only refuted their authority but chose to hide them from the public. They were allegedly proof that divinity lays within each of us and that knowledge would have clearly undermined the Church's authority.
That's a nice little fantasy, given how the bible says we were made in his image I can even see how you could come to that silly conclusion. However, we created god in our image. The fantasy comes when we assign god the ability to create something from nothing (and no that is not what the big bang is) and we will never be omnipotent or omniscient (which negates the idea of free will). We are also not and never will be immortal. There is no evidence to support any of these claims and Christianity has had over 2000 years to produce any.
I think we're saying the same thing regarding creation however I believe we are all immortal, perhaps not in this form. Not sure which part you're saying is fantasy.
Fantasy: We are God, God Exists, Immortality, Angels, Ghosts, Devils, Demons, Unicorns, Fairies, Firebreathing Dragons, super heroes, divinity of any sort, magic that doesn't involve illusionists, pretty much anything we can refer to as paranormal.
Yes, you are right. God had a great plan. It was to send His son to be sacrificed on the cross, by the sheding of his blood, so in believing it and receiving Him as our Lord and Saviour we will spend eternity with Him in the coming world here on earth for 1000 years. You see, it is a test for all of us, to believe that He was sent by His father, the Lord God, just for that purpose, because Jesus's death has paid the price for everyones sin, now it is up to us to believe it, and receive Him into our heart and ask for forgiveness for our sins and doubting that He is the son of God! God planned everything even the people who chose Barabas instead of Jesus to be let out of jail. Even the Pharasees who did not believe. That was all planned by God. People you need to read your Bible! God certainly was not invented HE has alway been and always will be. He is the great I Am. He is the untoucheable light. Read 1 Timothy 6:16. "The King of Kings and Lord of Lords, who alone is immortal" and who lives in UNAPPROACHABLE LIGHT", whom no one has seen. To Him be honor and might forever. That is why Moses could hardly bear to stand in front of the burning bush. It was Gods light. It even changed his appearance.
If an all loving God had a plan, he wouldn't give to the Christians with their worst murdering and enslavement world record in human history
Boni - I don't wish to argue the validity of the Word as you know it but can you explain the following: "Lord of Lords, who alone is immortal" v those believers who will live forever in Heaven? (Immortally)
How can Jesus save us by sacrificing himself for our supposed sins? If one man commits a crime, is it moral to send another man to take the punishment for it, even if he does it willingly? Doesn't make sense.
That sounds like slavish worship of authority, much like an oppressed person would not dare to question the demands of a brutal dictator who has all the power.
That is because you don't know your Bible Jane!!
Jane Bovary - Actually, it may be immoral but it is certainly legal. If one man is convicted of a crime, another man cannot be tried for the same crime unless there is new and compelling evidence to reopen the case.
You might be interested in the book, "Is God a Moral Monster". It provides some pretty interesting view points on the morality of God.
Ypu go arrest him...we'll take care of the rest!
How would you arrest something that in invisible and more powerful than you?, sound like your already handcuffed by Yahweh
You can't arrest an imaginary being for imaginary crimes.... unless you write a story about how you arrested God by taking a special police spiritual rocket paddy wagon to heaven with and arrest warrant for God, St. Peter has to open the gates then and then Police had a shootout with the wanted Criminal at his home at 777 Golden Path RD NE Heaven, he finally gave himself up after 7 hours and 7 minutes and is now in custody awaiting trial.... God faces the death penalty, however, due to his "immortality" prosecution wants life without the possibility of parole.
@castle concepts cant be arrested...so arresting god is not a point but such case can bring out huge debate and make people question the moral premise of god who himself demands high moral stds....how can immoral being demand high moral stds from others?
Well unfortunately many people believe that "sin" or "bad" things are the actions themselves. But, according to Christianity, going against the will of God is "sin." This "God" cannot not go against His own will, so in a sense, He can do whatever the Hell He wants, but if man were to follow suit, they would be considered haughty, sinful, and what have you.
The Christian "God" is a tyrant, and I'm thinking about creating a Hub stating why.
: God: Do what I say, not what I do, even though MAN was made in God's image.
If Christian are tops at murdering in history, than why not Yahweh, some viscous circle with moral delusion and ethics for killing is even a worst sin.
I think perhaps you should read the Bible more carefully. More specifically, read Jeremiah and see what God himself says about the nature of those who give his ministry. Then compare it with the new testament. If you can resonably reconcile those without saying "well god changed his mind" then perhaps you might be on to something. If you cannot then one of two things has happened. Either your God made himself a Liar and utterly fallible, or the Messiah never came and you been duped into believing that he has.
In the first place, God's people were not the Jews. God's people were Israelites. In the second, you've gone on to do nothing but describe all human beings as they have always been and always will be. Now there is serious proof missing that he is or was our Creator. He deserves nothing unless he can prove himself to actually exist. Just so you know, I personally have asked God, and I got absolutely no response from him, so I had to find other answers for myself. The Bible makes people out to be liars or dupes. You have to actually read the WHOLE thing in order to understand this. Many claim to have done so, very very few have.
Who do you think the Israelites were if not Jewish!!!!
Jewish is not a race, nor is Jew. It's a religion. To phrase your question correctly, it should've been "What do you think the Israelites were if not Jewish?" Of course, I don't expect you to realize things like this. Many, unfortunately don't.
I know Jewish is not a race. I am married to a Rabbi and have been for many years. He is a Levite also. I am not ignorant or stupid. There is alot more to Gods word than what you presume it to be! I admit I don't know everything, and am learning, but to call God, or Jesus a liar, (take my pick) is absolutely obsurd. When you speak words like that, the ministering angels take them and work to make it happen in your behalf, because one of the laws of the universe is "What comes around goes around". Another words what you say is what you get! I don't dare even think thoughts of negativity of God or Jesus or the Holy Spirit. I have seen Gods work at hand in my husbands life and mine. Sometimes it will totally AWH! you. Other times it will give you goose bumps all over you. Other times it will make you weep with joy! He is a loving God, more than anyone can ever imagine. and yet I have seen how He gets tired and puts a stop to mankinds arrogance and stupidity and just takes care of the problem quickly. That is why I tell people never to doubt God and who HE is!
My husband is a Christian Jew. HE has spent his whole like since the war in Israel, the seven day war and the Yonkipor War, preaching the word of God. He was a commanding officer at the raid at Antebi, to release the Jewish people at the airport. He sings all over the world for God.
I never called you ignorant or stupid, if that's the way you feel, it's no one's fault but your own. I'm not being absurd, you say that you believe Gods words, yet you blatantly ignore them for what someone decided was truer than that. That makes someone a liar and it's only one of two possibilities. Either God is a liar for directly telling a lie, or the story of Jesus is a lie because God had already decreed otherwise. Someone, somewhere is lieing. Since the information I'm providing comes from the SAME source as you claim to believe, I would recommend reading what I recommended and figure out how to reconcile it for yourself. To me it's showing someone is lieing, and going with the belief that God is infallible, it has to be whoever wrote the Jesus story. Otherwise God is fallible and therefore could easily not exist. As far as "What goes around comes around," it's not a universal law, or even a scientific one. It's an indian belief called Dharma. Of course you "don't dare!" most Christians don't, that's why they are locked into a belief system in the first place. I didn't like being subjugated and broke free of it.
You gotta admit, Einder. You did create some inuendo, well camoflaged. She does need to spellcheck, though.
When God makes a covenant with people he keeps it. The problem with the people is that they don't keep their word. God is not wishy washy, but people are. If I had to trust someone on their word, I would definitely trust God over people any day! Look what Jude did to Jesus, one of his own deciples that turned against him. Man cannot be trusted but God always comes through on His Word!
**Judas** turned against him. And if your trust God's word, then you've been duped since Jesus was not a Levite, Did not offer burnt offerings, did not kindle meat, and did not offer sacrifices to God, as God himself told Jeremiah would ALWAYS be so lest his covenant with the Day and Night be broken. So if you believe in Jesus, your lieing, and if not, your calling God a liar.
Thats a bunch of hogwash. I believe that there are so many people who are so mixed up about WHO GOD really is and it looks like you may be one of them. He does not waste his time with people who are like that!!!!! HE will only allow the ones in His present who adimit that they are scared and are a sinner and need HIS help. It sounds like you are neither so don't waste your time. You just like to argue. If black is black you would argue that it were white just for the sake of an argument. God does not need to waste His time on people who are like that!!!
Jesus did not need to be a Levite or anything else. He was and is the Son of God.
He was sent as an offering to MAN, why would he have to offer anything else?
The unpardinable sin is when a person deny the deity of God. That is the worst sin of mankind. To deny who God is, you are walking on numbered days!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hey, I'm just pointing out whats written in the BIBLE. You don't want to read it (even though you claim you have) and you don't want to acknowledge or accept it. I'm just showing you what God himself told to Jeremiah. If you actually want to take the time to read it, it's Jeremiah 33:17-22. However, you want to believe in your Jesus, which you Bible clearly states is a lie, which is up to you. Just don't tell me that you choose God's words above anyone elses, when he states something and you choose to ignore it in favor of something else.
Obviously it must, as you cant seem to stay out of the religious threads
It's not a religious thread, it's a beliefs thread. One set of beliefs challenging the other. And it's not just that. It's a divine comedy. God being the butt of the jokes. But primarily it is those whose rights are being challenged. When a religion attacks the rights of those to learn in a secular forum or live in a secular forum without being told how or what to believe by another religious group (and by forum I don't necessarily mean hubpages) then it is our duty to stand up and represent.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation … ontroversy
Religion has been trying to force itself on the secular world ever since secular ideas and non religious or religious neutral ideas have existed. This fight has gone on despite a first amendment that was written to keep religious institutions from creating laws or forcing religious views on to those of opposing or non religious viewed groups. There have been and still are court cases and trials taking place that challenge our first amendment rights to religious and non religious freedoms.
Oh i get it now. What your doing is a PUBLIC SERVICE, for the good of society. And this whole time i was thinking you were just a bully. You have proven me wrong with a wikipedia article.
The Wikipedia article is just reference, if you want I can reference the court cases themselves and as far as bullying goes, how is my disagreeing in a public forum bullying? A debate is two people or two groups of people having a discussion on a topic for which they both disagree. If you can't take the heat.... But I am not going to tell you what to do or what to think just why I disagree.
And i love how all you can do is argue semantics when you dont actually have a point.
You have no idea, obviously you haven't been paying attention.
I admit this topic is fairly inane but the debate is fun. I enjoy debating with some of my Christian friends and though some of the debates have become somewhat unfriendly on both our parts (with the exception of one jerk here who does not debate but ridicules) I look forward to their point of view on topics. Keep it friendly and agree to disagree.
And i admit to being a hypocrite, i am not exactly an angel
Well, I admire that about you, for the most part I think you make some great points and though we don't have the same views I do think that you should feel free to express them any way you choose... Minus ad hominen attacks. I do tend to be way too outspoken when it comes to views I find flawed but I hope you will forgive that about me.
Let me tell you a story. My husband was in Nigeria getting ready to sing for a crusade. He stayed at Senator Brumme house. The people in Nigeria were told that he was coming to sing so humdreds of them walked days and nights to get there. It was unbelievable how big the crowd was. Most of ther were Native people and their whole familys and they were on fire for the Lord.
That late afternoon my husband got up on the stage and began to sing. He said that you could tell that the Holy Spirit was there, it was electrified. Everyones adrenaline was at it peak. The crowd began to sing with him, they could get enough of praising God in song.
While he was singing to this gigantic crowd the ground seemed to be moveding as they swayed in song. He spoke to them and said "when I say this in the song" (Reach out and claim it, you are on Holy ground), he said I want all of you to put your left on on a place on your body that needs to be healed, and the right hand to reach out like you are taking the blessing from God.
He saw a little girl about 6 years old below the stage with no eye ball or eye socket on the left side of her face. She had been born that way. He told her to put her hand on the left side where there was no eye and socket. The crowd was ready to receive their blessings from God with no disbelief in them. He began to sing the song "On Holy Ground". When he got through he told the girl not to remove her hand and to come up on stage in front of the crowd, he said then go ahead and show the people what God did for you. She removed her hand and for the first time in her life she had 2 eyeball and 2 eyesockets, all because she HAD FAITH AND BELIEVED THAT GOD WOULD HEAL HER!
The crowd was ecetatic, peoples teeth were put back in their mouth, the blind could see, the deaf could here in the crowd. Peoples limbs that were schriveled up grew out to normal length. Amputees were no long amputees. The miracles were astounding!
If there is no God, then who in Heaven is creating these miracles?
I will tell you another story. My husband was coming home one evening from work, the sun was not down yet. The Lord spoke to Him audible and said, when you get to Lame cemetery I want you to go into the cemetary and go to the back of it and get out and sing. He said but Lord I am dirty and need to go home and bath and put my best clothes on. He said to him, NO, there is not time, I need you to do it now.
So he came home and told me, I said did you do it, he said, yes,. Six months later he went to our mechanic. and the mchanic said I hear you are a big man with God. My husband said, what do you mean, I understand you sang in a cemetery alone! He said yes, Ken said, well a friend of mine in church was laying in a crevace behind the cemetery down the hill with a gun pressed to his temple, when all of a sudden he heard an angel singing "His eye is on the Sparrow". and he put the gun down and weeped because he knew tht God heard his prayer and answered it.
God exists, believe me. You need to ask Him to come into your life and forgive you for not believing. Forget, picking His words appart. It does not matter. Only God matters! Only Jesus matters! Only the HOly Spirit matters!
As for where the miracles come from, read Carl Jung. Universal thought flow and such could have something to do with it, but of course, like everything else, the most absurd explanation has to be the right one.
Understanding you want to get your post count up to try and have some authority, I'm not reading through all the dribble and diatribe if you can't put in a single message. It's a complete waste of time.
I don't believe you, and I don't believe the Bible. I believe that that someone somewhere had to lie in order for Jesus to be exactly as the New Testament claims him to be. I believe the Holy Ghost is a sham since I've seen first hand how people practice "receiving" it. Including the speaking in tongues. I also believe that in order for your God to be real and the only one, he has an extremely long way to go in order to prove it, and if belief in him is the only proof, then he doesn't exist to begin with so the point is moot.
My husband was touched by God when He was 13 years old on the veranda of his house in Chile. His voice was changed from a soprano to a bass instantly. He went running down the stairs to tell his mother what had just happened, that God spoke to him audible and asked him to sing for Him for the rest of his life. He said not just one time Lord but for the rest of my life. Whn his mother saw him running down the stairs she also saw two angels about 8 ft tall behind him and golden hair down their back.
She got mad at first a Sam because she thought that he envited them into the house an they were strangers and she did not like that then sh realize that they were angels. and dropped to her knees and started praising God. She got up and called her husband to come home and bring all the pastors in town with him, that Sam was visited by God.
They came to the house and could not look at Sam in the face as the light on his face shined so bright that it was blinding for them to look at him, so they put a shawl over his head and discussed what had happened. Sam had that light in his face for about 3 or 4 days and had to keep the cloth on his head as people could not bear to look at him.
He has sang all over the world, for Queen Elizabeth numerous times. For numerous Presidents of this country. He holds the Verdi Title for 5 years as the top singer.
People are. Miracles aren't magic or miraculous they are people believing what they want to believe despite what is true.
This is all pure fantasy. No one should be so gullible as to believe such outright fraud, unless some form of psychosis is involved...which is quite DISTURBING.
If anything you said was true, the world would know about it.
Sounds like every concert I have ever been to, more or less
I would laugh at this if it wasn't so insane and sad at the same time.
Come on guys , it makes a mystical biblical connection here. Since in before Noah's time people were over 8 to 12 feet tall and could live up to 969 years old and had incest families, why not 2 singing angelss 8 feet tall?
It lease it make more sense than a talking serpent or Donkey or living in a whale if live hollywood
I believe you picked the right name to go by!
Your husband, along with all the people present, were able to create enough energy to manifest these changes. This is exactly what Jesus was trying to teach us with the 'faith and mustard seed' speech. God didn't bring down the miracles, the energy and faith of the people in the power of the universe did. He didn't say "if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, and say to that mountain, move, I will move that mountain for you." He said you can do it yourself.
A miracle is something we don't often see, sort of a Catch 22. Is it a miracle because we don't see it often or do we not see it often because it's a miracle. We can create miracles in our lives.
On the subject of energy, the same thing happens at any large gathering where people are of the same purpose. It's energy and belief, not something that is beyond the realm of our understanding.
Yes, that would one of the same countries in which those who are fire for the Lord have been told not to wear condoms, thus spreading HIV.
I believe the truth is, most of them don't have enough money to buy condoms!
Or get the education to understand how aids is spread.
@boni thats lame excuse...most countries where aids is concern , govts give free condoms....
The condoms are free, provided by non-religious organizations.
But, I wonder why you are here fabricating stories about your husband, saying things that are so obviously lies? Why are you doing that?
YOu are not clear. What is said in Jeremiah which is being contradicted in the news testament? Could you explain?
No, I'm perfectly clear. As I've gone round and round and round about this with various people all ready, I really don't feel like doing so again. What I refer to though is Jeremiah 33:17-22. You can read it and what not for yourself, but for the moment at least, I'm done with trying to figure it out, and listening to circular logic, and logic that's way far fetched.
Really bad things happen to those of you who mock God.
Really! Like what? I've been mocking god ever since I became an atheist nearly 20 years ago. Nothing out of the ordinary has happened to me and my life is great... Empty threat.
I could imagine them taking his book off the shelves, his reputation tarnished as he is charged on a count of infanticide.
you have some really odd beliefs also, what would even draw you to think that way?. If you read furthe r into your HOLY BIBLE you would know the reasoning behind god killing his own son. Wasn't it to wash all of your sins away? everyone has their own ODD beliefs and that is why we have so much EVIL. Just wondering how were you supposed to put god on trial anyway are you or someone going to go arrest him with a warrant ? I would love to see that our greatest power the reason you wake up everyday,someone whom is not even here in human form!
Of course not! He never shows up for anything, not even court summons. No matter what your problems are, he never makes a personal appearance. Imaginary deities never do, no matter their names. Feel free to try it yourself. Once again, there is no free will unless no conditions are required or no threats of consequences exist. Worship me or live in eternal torment. Unconditional love? Yeah right!
A serial killer and a god, what a dilemma for the justice system. Not to mentio he is not the reason we get up in the morning or a great power of any sort. I wouldn't even say he was great.
In the end days, there will be scoffers.
Good luck with that!
I Resemble that!!!
Millions of ways to burn in hell without doing harm here on earth, pretty well sum it up. Wait... somebodies going to fight over this too.
There have always been scoffers, that's why there are over 20 different religions out there many of which are far older than Christianity.
Not really. Christianity goes back to the beginning of time.
You are swinging wildly in the dark.
That actually kind of looks like fun
Christianity goes back to the begining of stoogehood... You'd have to exclude all other forms of writing that predates written accounts of other deities. You'd have to be absolutely naive or stupid to believe such a statement was true.
That's only according to Christianity... Of course, whatever Christians think or whatever the Bible says is right, even if everything else in the universe contradicts this.
Nothing in the universe contradicts God's love for you.
I can agree with this. Nothing in the universe contradicts Love. The highest, most profound and immutable law of the universe. IMO, there is just Love, which some call God. The prophet, Jesus, tried to teach us this.
And, yes, Love goes back to the beginning of time.
The beginning of time was just under 2000 years ago?
And the dinosaurs died out just a mere 6,000 years ago...
The great floods created all the fossils all at the same time.
One Christian told me that men during the dinosaurs period were over 16 feet to the size of a football field, that way Dinosaurs would not mess with man.
Plus man did not hunt Dragons or dinosaurs, because their not on their diet,
I sure a magical dragon would been wonderful to eat with a side order of dinosaurs eggs
God didn't murder His Son. Humans murdered God's Son. Jesus could have stopped them at any time with legions of angels at his disposal, but he chose to die for me and you.
Since God requires a sacrifice, and jesus stepped in to fill that position, isn't God responsible for the killing of his son?...because God could have just changed his requirements.
I would have to say 'yes', he's responsible. But responsibility does not necessarily mean anything one way or the other when we're talking about this God.
Ahh, but this God seems to be a slave to His own requirements/laws.
I present to you the same thin I presented before. If God is all knowing, then he knew that his son was going to die. Therefore he is guilty of conspiracy to commit murder. He's also guilty of conspiracy to commit every murder that's ever happened if he's all knowing. Why? Because he knew about it and did NOTHING to stop it.
And then can be implied in every crime ever commited, since he created good and evil.
Yes, in keeping with OPs line of argument but that is from the perspective of human law, whether moral, legal or arbitrary.
The God is subject to no law.
It says in the bible "What laws you hold as true on earth, will also be held true by him".
Bam!! How do ya like them apples?
Apples? How appropo.
Perhaps He means that we will be governed in this Kingdom of Heaven by the same laws we impose on others here, invoking the 'do unto others' rule.
If the laws of murder apply to the highest authority on earth, then said laws would be held in heaven.
Yes, but not to the judge, only to the defendant. In this case, God is both judge and defendant. What say you?
Judge Clarence Thomas was brought up on charges of sexual harassment, he was the supreme court's head justice at the time.
That's here on planet Earth, under the laws of man. The OP suggests a God, whom no one can see or talk to and who allegedly makes all his own laws. He can't be judged by our courts because he is the judge, jury and defendant of an entirely different jurisdiction.. At least in theory.
Again, this is assuming it's the christian God we're talking about. It says (and again I'll quote the bible) "whatever laws are held as true on earth, so shall he hold true". If I can charge a judge on earth, I can charge a judge in heaven.
But If God is subject no law, then he knows no Justice and knows not Good or Evil. We use morals to determine laws. A God without Morals is no God to serve to begin with.
I was going to add on to it but I had to get my car so I guess I'll bring it up here. According to the Bible we are made in God's image. If that's true, then the very center of being as to at least be like God in someway. Most of us consider our Morals, our ethics to be at the very heart of who we are. That being said, and it being said that our law reflects our morals and ethics, to be made in God's image would mean that God reflects these very same things. Yet he shows a bigger willingness to murder when consider murder wrong. If you need examples look at the flood, when he killed all but a few. Or Sodom and Gomorrah where the same thing happened. Or even Babylon. According to revelations it's going to happen again. Honestly, he continuously kills off mass amounts of people. We have to ask repentance from him for this things, yet they are perfectly ok for him to do? I personally don't accept that.
There are many laws which a good number of people do not hold to be true. There are many unjust laws. Randy...by what right do you presume to talk for the native people? Not all of them were christians. There were atheists there too. Agnostics also. Was Custer a christian? If he was, we did him a favor. Do you believe in the Great Spirit? Do you pray to Wakan Tanka?
Oh we can talk history all right. Start with the Spaniards who brought priests with them to keep records of the first forays into Florida. They brought huge mastiffs with them and would regularly feed the natives to these dogs if the locals didn't obey the conquerors.
The Spaniards needed slaves to work the sugarcane plantations in Cuba because the native population there had already been worked to death. The protestants were no better with their hunger for land and felt no compunctions about shooting the indigenous people like wolves. And then they'd go to church on Sunday and thank their deity for helping them rid the world of these savages.
This continued on, at least here in my part of the world, for over 300 years. And yes, many of those perpetrating these crimes were self proclaimed Christians. The same attitude has never entirely disappeared among Christians as they still think their deity is on their side. Go Tebow!! Get real!
Funny how you jump from talking about spaniards to protestants. Did it occur to you that a nationality is not a religion?
Imperialism was the way of the world at one time. It wasn't driven by religion any more than religion rode on its coat tails.
And the practice of slavery was not limited to the religious anymore back then, than it is now.
Randy - I see your point. Although Imperialism wasn't necessarily governed by religion, those same Imperialists were religious people. This continues into today's White House, where it's argued that a President should not let his religion influence his decisions. IMO, the two can't be separated.
So the slaughterous Imperialists thought they had God protecting them when in fact, their interpretation of the Bible was wrong. Sort of like today's radical Islamists.
There are many so-called christians who are sadly mistaken about their position. That's in the bible, dude.
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