Do we have a machine to jump into another Universe where Jesus actually existed as well?
I strongly disbelieve in the divinity of Jesus, but I don't strongly disbelieve in his historical existence. If he didn't exist, we would realize this at the nonoccurrence of the crucifixion.
Why don't you disbelieve it? There is no historical evidence whatsoever.
Also - how would you pinpoint the time/date of this supposed event?
Disbelief is an active proposition, and an active behavior. In a sense, it is also a negative commitment. I don't commit to any negative proposition due merely to a lack of evidence. However, I don't believe in Jesus' historical existence, either.
As to how would you I would pinpoint the exact time/date, I would leave that to Doctor Who. I've hired him to pilot my time machine. This is a fictional thought experiment, after all. :-)
So why don't you believe in his historical existence?
A lack of historical evidence.
A historian is someone who studies historical evidence -- and the opinions of other historians -- and uses his or her critical reasoning skills to reconstruct the past, and to determine the veracity of historical claims. I'm not a historian, but I can use their intellectual toolset to make the same decisions. I've done that, using the same evidence available to every modern historian -- and to everyone else -- and I've concluded that the evidence is insufficient to satisfy my standards of evidence. Some historians, and some non-historians, agree with my conclusion, and some don't.
So - just semantics then? You don't believe, but do not actively disbelieve?
I agree with you. I don't believe Jesus existed either. I apply not only the lack of historical data, but choose to actively disbelieve based on the amount of lies in the bible and the continued practice of lying by believers to defend their irrational belief.
Methinks the ladies doth protest too much. I have had too many believers tell me there is a mountain of historical evidence, but when it comes down to it they were simply repeating what some one else said and are unable to provide any.
I keep trying to tell my Christian friends that they should never try to prove their Christian beliefs, that they should rely on the leap to faith instead, but they seldom listen to me until _after_ they have embarrassed themselves.
The Christians who do listen don't need the advice.
Definitely. But, I think I'd choose another moment in his life. I would think being at the tomb with Mary might be better. Lots of people were crucified. What is written of his subsequent actions are of much more interest.
Excellent idea, and yes the resurrection would be more relevant to witness.
If you manage it, watch out for large angels!
Yes, I'd refuse to enter such a man-made machine. Further, I'd attack any such attempt to destroy my faith in my merciful God and His Son, Jesus Christ, Who lived to die, so we might be forgiven and have life. Satan would dearly love(as if he could love anything beyond himself) to prove with historical evidence that Jesus Christ was born, which would have occurred approximately 6 years BC, give or take a couple of years. to prove with irrefutable evidence that Jesus Christ not only died on our cross, but resurrected 3 days later, to ascend into Heaven, where He is now, with His Heavenly Father, shielding Satan's bad report of us, here on earth, from reaching His Father's ears. You see, if Satan could prove what he has known about the divinity of Jesus Christ to all of us here on earth, our faith would become as worthless to God as the stones at our feet.
From Holy Scripture we know that Jesus Christ existed before time and everything that exists was created by His Word. Even our faith in Him is created by hearing his word.
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
It's also stressed by Jesus Christ Himself, that the faith of His end time believers will be proven much stronger than the believers who walked with Him, for the lack of the physical evidence that they enjoyed.
All I want is His Living Word to dwell in my heart. Everything else of worth, blossoms from His Love. Historical Evidence for the Resurrection of Christ
??? What are you afraid of? Proof is better than faith. If the time machine was possible it is better to find the truth with certainty of whether he existed or not than to continue not knowing and believing in blind faith.
with pitchfork and club! Nah, actually, I knew that would be questioned, just not by you. You can be certain not by force, but by vote perhaps, if it came from a democracy. Of course it's all hypothetical and most fun to consider.
Cagsil? You appear to be a two headed fiend. I'm sure that's just appearance.
Disappearinghead, I have the truth and the proof in my heart and soul, that will indeed carry me into my Heavenly Father's Kingdom, in or around the year 2027.
Well, that would mean that your perception is skewed or that you're passing false judgment before learning. Both which are not good for you.
I understand your fear. Take heart, THERE IS A GOD WHO'S SON DIED FOR YOUR SINS!
What's wrong with Obama? He sounds like a nice man.
Proof in your heart and soul is still faith with the possibility that these originate in your unconscious mind. If it was possible I'd take the opportunity to have proof on video.
I know from the Bible, the prophesies in the old testament, the church fathers and secular history that Jesus' crucifixion is true. Even so, faith is enough for me.
In two thousand years, I'm sure there will be people who insist I was never here. I guarantee it. I know I'm here. There may be some who might insist that John Lennon never lived. There may even be some who might insist we never went to the moon..already is. There is even a chance that people may claim a place called the United States is just a legend. Compliments of my time machine. Thank you all for the standing ovation! Careful driving home tonight. It's a jungle out there!
Jenna Pope, my dear sister in Christ. Our faith is far and away proof enough. HALLELUJAH!!! Don't forget your many gifts and miracles He gave us as individuals. God bless your witness on this day. There are those who desperately need it. We can only recall how it was before we were born again through Jesus Christ, the Good shepherd, Redeemer and Divine Intercessor.
Herod existed. Pontius Pilate existed. Joseph of Arimathea existed (He is recorded in Roman records as a 'mining minister') Paul existed, Peter existed. James, the brother of Jesus existed. This whole forum kinda dumb.
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