If God is like a light switch in a dark room, why is it so hard to show it to a non-believer?
This appeared in a forum post recently:
"They are led to stand before the doorstep of a dark room ~ and encouraged to discover if there is any light-switch ('God') inside it. The only way to find out ~ is to enter the light-less room, and physically search for the switch on the wall (using one's arms)."
Believers say that in order to find god, you have to walk into the room and believe that there's a light switch before you can find it for yourself. In other words you have to believe and "faith" evidence into existence. Why is it so hard to simply show the "light switch" to a non-believer?
Well, God isn't a light switch in a dim room. They're broadly implying that the existence of God is the realization; or the light in a dim room. I doubt they're saying anything deeper than that. But I would say that the concept of God creates the awareness, which is that light.
I would agree, but if there was a light switch in a dark room, and you wanted someone to find it, why would you not walk them to it, rather than Insisting that they believe it's there before it can be found? It seems backwards.
And why use analogies in the first place. If the light switch is there, why can't it be found? If it isn't there, no amount of belief will make it appear.
Maybe the person is looking in the wrong place? For instance, would one hope to find a light switch near the floor, on the ceiling or on a wall at shoulder height?
Well in my experience God is not the one doing the finding so yes HE is like a switch on a wall. The only trouble is there is an entity installing new switches along the wall until it has completely fill the level and height that you are currently feeling around the wall for.
I call Him Satan and he employs many technicians as well. So instead of a dark room and light let us use the metaphor of a slot machine and lets use the penny slots which is a video slot with bonus rounds and extra multiples.
One could play one of these Games forever and never hit If there was not an authority that was set over It. the Gaming commission (GOD) the Casino (Satan) and lets give are players a limited supply of weekly income. So the player drawn to the Machine begins to play and at first it is okay slow play nothing much than a small jack pot, a bonus round, a bigger jack pot, another bonus round then the machine goes cold no pay offs out of money the machine is changed new machine new game.
All the gamblers stop playing so another machine is put in place a few takers but then it doesn't pay either so the casino replaces the original game which people love and are willing to spend their available time and money on but the big jack pot is not ever been won. But people still believe their going to win so they continue to play. then suddenly the old bum who some times comes in plays his last dollar and he hits the jack pot and dies of a heart attack. He believed and he won but it it cost him his last dollar and his earthly life. He was a believer unto the end. Same with the darkened room the earth we live in. Where the Devil and his minions keep installing the switches. if the seeker gives up flipping the switches they never find the Light. now lets say the seeker flips a switch and the room lights up a little or dims a little with every following flip of a switch. To fully illuminate the room they must continue. until they flip the last switch within their room. Lets say that one brightly fills the room so bright that it set the seeker a blaze and they drop dead from the heat. that seeker found the light at the cost of enduring until they end They were a true believer. And they found the light that they sought. but those who left the room or never reentered the room to throw that final switch Non-Believers never found the light that both took and saved that soul. Seek GOD (the Light) with Fear and trembling because this is what It will take to endure until your end.
I would never seek anything that was supposed to be good with fear or trembling. Fear isn't love, and following something out of fear isn't faith - it's extortion.
If you love some one or some thing Fear is always involved for you fear the loss of that which you love, trembling because old age causes trembling. Yes Fear in the Good book is often translated incorrectly. Endurance is what you give or seek to find
I love my spouse, I love my friends, I do not have any fear in my love. We all die. Fearing it doesn't keep it from happening, so I enjoy the time I have. Your premise is then unsound. If mistranslation then why initially use it?
I use it because we live in a world of lies N It is ruled over by a murder I don't fear death 4 I know who he is But I have lost many who are dead but alive. GOD is life itself so yes I fear the loss of GOD 4 the Good Book is full of truth N of lies
It's well and good to say that, and I respect your choice of belief, but believing they are true doesn't make them true. Saying it doesn't show that light switch any more than just saying it's there. I'm sorry, but I don't believe it.
You were a Non believer from the start I could lead you 2 the switch but I can't make you throw It or even touch it you have deemed yourself not 2 from the start your unwillness 2 believe or walk by faith is your use of freewill Not 2 repent 2 truth
It's funny you think you know me. You don't, and you just proved it. There's really nothing more that I need to say to you, since you think you know me already and made absurdly false assumptions.
"As an atheist, I like asking questions and understanding what people believe and why. I think these conversations are instrumental in I'm not afraid to ask questions recognizing our similarities and our differences as a species"~ Julie McFarland
You read my profile. So what? Did it say I was always an atheist as you assumed? I think not. You made three posts saying it was true. I didn't buy it, then you started in with the assumptions and attempted barbs. Is that all it takes?
I don't buy It I believe you N others R here seekN 2 destroy all N any beliefs that R not about your GOD of Unbelief who I believe 2 be Death N the destroyer as well as the Father of all lies We must believe 2 our end 2 have true faith or a switch
How can asking questions destroy anything? Only weak beliefs cannot tolerate being questioned. Now that your true colors and position has been revealed, however, there is no point continuing. Believing something does not make it true, however.
Many New Believer haven't the staying Power they need in these end times N those who seem 2 be asking are often entrapping 4, 1 reason or another It will be 2 their hurt on judgment Day when the GOD of Unbelief is revealed 2 Nonbelievers jilted hurt
1. I wasn't a new believer. 2. Comparing people to or saying they're being influenced by Satan doesn't help your case. 3. That's of judgement day or he'll is simple speak to emotion and it's fallacious.
Of course you went None of us are because we all fell Satan is not the only influence he has many minions N now atheist R included in this group of antiChrists/ anti GOD. Your ? was a snare or trap for those on the edge of salvation or destruction
It was a legitimate question. I'm sorry you don't like it or the additional discussion, but no one is forcing you to participate. Your repeated assertions are just that - assertions. That doesn't make them true either, sorry. Why so angry?
Even if atheists took you in the room and physically showed you that there was NO lightswitch, you would still not believe it. You would just keep insisting that Satan was hiding it. If you want to believe in dark empty rooms, that is your right.
While it's amusing, sinbad, that you think you know my intentions or motivations better than I do, it's not exactly polite. All I'm doing is asking questions. No need to be defensive or upset.
A child walks onto the ice believes that it is safe and then suddenly falls through the looking Glass Wow I am defensive and anger? I must be a horrible Man of Christ Or the Un believer wishes not to Believe the switch That I have shown them turns on
Sinbad, I'm not sure how you're perceiving this conversation, but no one appears to be upset but you.I'm just asking questions, you're calling people closed minded an making assumptions & linking them w/ Satan. There's no need for that.
I would never seek anything that was supposed to be good with fear or trembling. Fear isn't love, and following something out of fear isn't faith - it's extortion~ JMcFarland I would Never Seek anything that was SUPPOSED to be good GOD Is GOOD U Dnt
Yes, you copied and pasted, just like you did with my profile. What is that supposed to demonstrate? That I was rude to you? It doesn't. It has nothing to do with you, but addresses what you originally said. Do you see the difference?
there R those who R blinded by GOD N given a gift of slumber 4 sure you can see why A believer cant lead a non believer or vis a versa to the water of Life they R destroyed because of lack of knowledge truth you hold is a false reality I don't hold 2
I'm sorry, I have no idea what you're trying to say. English, please.
We are Miles apart but in the same room your Non belief cancels my ability to show you anything where as my belief does this to you we have nothing to offer each other I am not buying what you R selling and U R not Buying either stalemate.
Why is it reasonable to expect someone to believe what you're saying prior to you being able to show it to them? That's backwards. Can you think of any other situation where that would be true?
dont require you 2 believe/ disbelieve anything air is free even though for centuries we could not or can we still not see it But remove It or replace It N Death occurs The invisible will be seen one day in the twinkling of N eye The very Air breathe
You said that my non belief cancels your ability to show me anything. Now you seem to be taking that back and asserting that I'm somehow trying to sell you something. I do not understand what you're talking about.
Why is it so hard to simply show the "light switch" to a non-believer?
Why can't believers allow people to discover God for themselves?
Having a need to "prove" something to someone says a lot about "the believer." Isn't "free will" about allowing people to come aboard on their on account? If someone is living an incredibly happy life it's only natural for others to ask: "What is your secret?" If you're a person of faith that's when you'd share (your) story. Lead by example.
Whenever "believers" and "non believers" debate and argue their points they're both usually wasting their time. After all having faith is to believe in what you cannot see! If someone thinks "seeing is believing" it's (their) right. Live and let live.
Faith is not blind. It is "the evident demonstration of realities that are not seen.” — Hebrews 11:1. http://bit.ly/135BKl7
Lol Joseph! Faith is necessarily blind, or it wouldn't be faith! If you CAN SEE something, no faith is required. If there's no evidence of something, then you have a blind belief. Wow. You can't see the forest for the trees.
Take for instance our sun. It appears revolve around the earth— soaring in the east , rolling through the skies , and afterwards setting in the west . Nevertheless , proof from astronomy together with math makes clear that the earth is ...
Joseph, If one needs to "see" or have "proof" in order to believe something they lacks faith! Faith means never having to ask "How?" It's supposed to be a (knowing) things will be fine despite contrary appearances. Faith is one step beyond hope..
That's the point. Atheists don't believe in a god because they cannot quantifiably prove the god's existence. What you take on faith, they need proof. Empirical, repeatable proof. If you can't prove it exists, there's a huge chance it doesn't.
It seems very silly and childish to compare a god to a light switch. I would think that most reasoning people would believe that there is a light switch in a room, not based on a godly belief, but on knowledge of past experience. This knowledge would also include the approximate location of the switch near the door. No faith is required, but rather a trust in human planning and architecture, unless trust is the same as faith.
It reminds me of people who go into haunted houses, determined to find a ghost. Invariably, they'll hear a mysterious noise or see a suspicious shadow, and suddenly they're believers. If someone wants to believe something desperately enough, they'll perform the mental gymnastics to make it happen. In your light-switch example, the believers are telling you to talc up your hands, put on a leotard, and begin your warm up... because you gotta prime your brain for that routine!
Seek N you Shall Find Knock N the door is answered for there is always somebody Home in GOD's House Yes Prime the pump which is your Heart in which your soul lives Invite the Comforter In N the teachings will begin Factual beliefs of a difrent world
Very insightful answer, Thomas. Believers see what they WANT to see. If they want to believe that a god holds their destiny, then they will find "evidence" in everything around them. But there are some of us who require actual evidence.
The statement implies that non-believers have not searched for a light switch before. Which I think is inaccurate. If we're going with a metaphor, a non-believer is one who has searched for the light switch. But, having not found it, took it upon themselves to map out the dark room based on what the can actually find. There's a wall here, a chair there, a table in that corner, etc. After enough time, the light switch isn't even needed to navigate the room safely.
Granted, a light switch would make things easier, but which effort is worth more of your time? Searching endlessly for something that might not be there, or utilizing what is actually in front of you? Believers might say that the search isn't endless and that one will eventually find god (the light switch). But when the light turns on, is that what the room actually looks like, or just what you want it to look like?
The switch is but the means 2 the end Clap/clap off soon these old devices will B out dated but the Electricity will not B GOD is liken unto IT powers the Light Blind people navigate very well only after they have felt out the room in which they Rin
Could it be argued that the person who relies on the light is experiencing less? The blind man tests everything and learns from it. The man with the light just accepts what is in front of him.
A non believer does not want to believe and has a strong stand on it.
It's not that they don't want to believe, I'm sure they would rather believe, they just haven't seen the light.
Many nonbelievers do not believe because there is no solid proof. Show them real, verifiable, repeatable proof and you might have someone who believes. I say "might" because the god in question would have to be worthy enough to follow.
There are people who simply through inductive & deductive analysis have conclusively maintain that there is no God. They base everything upon solid reasoning & logic. This is what more conservative, orthodox, traditionalist, &/or fundamentalist religionists cannot/refuse to comprehend. They believe that people, if they want to, can believe in God. They maintain that people who do not believe in God are in error.
These religionists assert that humankind must use faith in addition to surrendering to God. They insist that the overemphasis & use of analytical logic has severely precluded many people from finding & believing in God. It is not within their purview that there are others who have a different ethical perspective than they. In their view, there is a God whether people wish to believe or not. They are of the school that people do not believe in God because they have not searched hard enough pure & simple.
I think the real problem here is that you're trying to prove something to someone who doesn't have the willingness to learn. The person doesn't believe for a reason, The reason may not be a good one for you but it certainly is for them. Whatever their reason is you should first hear them out on it fully. You should be patient and take interest in what they are saying as it is what they believe.
You believe in something and would want the respect given to you by another so the thing to do is to hear them out. Listen to what they say and then when they have felt that they have said all then thank them for sharing that with you. They will be much more receptive to what you have to say afterwards since they have already said their peace, their attention would come off them and onto you.
Their interest for you will increase and they will be more likely to listen to what you have to say. The thing to not do is make them wrong for what they believe so be careful. This is probably a major point here in most religious arguments is that the people talking on this subject usually verbally attack one another and make the other person wrong for what they believe.
In the past people have tried to use force to get others to believe something else and it may seem to work temporary but in the long run it ends up backfiring on the enforcer. This has been seen down the ages and is something that repeats throughout history. Force never works in the long run.
The best thing to do is respect their belief, Even if is very opposite yours. Respect and agree are two different things. We all have the freedom to believe whatever we want and due to one's own experiences each person will believe what they have experienced. What is funny is that sometimes a person will realize that they have had an experience that was beyond normal explanation and realize that there may be "something more" out there.
Even if not you can share your beliefs with them and maybe you can find a middle ground with them that might open the door to them finding "the lightswitch."
mmmm....the light switch should not be God but the person them self finding a way to God. God is the Light, not the light switch. We cannot impose religion as we see others do on an individual, they really have to make up their own minds and seek and find the truth, the way and the light for themselves, as an old saying goes....You can bring a mule to a river, but you cant force him to drink"
No approach that automatically assumes the non-believer already believes in God is capable of accomplishing anything beyond irritating the non-believer and frustrating the believer.
Because in most cases, the veil still exists. I read a book in 1982 and I was totally transformed. Before that I was a good person, just in a different place. Many people had tried to show me Light, but God's Hour had not struck, I was meant to do what I had to do, as necessary experiences for the growth of the Soul. In other words, I was not ready. My veil was still there.
The sincere aspirant knows that there is no such thing as forced conversion. One may be baptised or converted for years and still be in darkness. The veil has to be removed and it is done by Grace, only at the right moment, at God's Hour. One's duty is to serve; the rest is up to the Supreme. Much peace.
Autobiography of a Western Yogi, by Swami Kriyananda. I write books also. You can see both books on amazon.com. Mine is called: My Guru, Sri Chinmoy: Life And Teachings. Thanks for asking. I am here. firstname.lastname@example.org
What a wonderful question! Feeling God's love is a grace that is given and can only be given by God. Yet, this "gift of grace" requires first that the person's heart be open. It is our job to guide the person to open their heart so that they too may feel God's love.
The world seeks to harden the heart and our job is to promote the love of God and allow the love to shine through us. Guiding someone to open their heart is a very tough task but God will never hand you more than you can bear.
I think the answer isn't as simple as a sentence are two. The light switch concept is a great faith based concept, but what it doesn't account for are the things that people have been through in their lives. The area that you grow up in shapes your faith. The people you are around shape your faith. You are given the ability to make your own decision, but you are not always given all the right answers. The truth of the matter is if it was as simple as showing someone a light switch there would be no nonbelievers. Faith is a lot more complicated than that and so are believes.
The assumption is false.
There is no reason to believe any of that assumption.
It is up to a non believer to actually open their eyes to see the light. If they keep their eyes closed it will still be dark.
Here's a different analogy to this matter of explaining the existence of God.... President Ronald W. Reagan has said the whenever he encountered an atheist, he wants to invited him to a sumptuously prepared feast, everything created to perfection in presentation and taste. After they had finished the feast, he might ask his guest if he believed there was a cook!
Except it's comparing apples to oranges. We have no example of food preparing itself, but there's no evidence beyond assertion that the earth was created by an invisible, undetectable deity that can't be produced. You can produce a chef.
JMc: You can also produce evidence of things if you "believe" such as raising people from the dead! Read Jn 14:12, which says that we would do "...GREATER THINGS.." than Jesus! BENEFITS!!!
No, you cannot produce evidence evidence of raising someone from the dead. What are you talking about? Show me proof of your miracles, then.
This is a very good question. You see, it's all in a person's thinking. Of course many people feel like this due to the various on-going struggles, short-comings, and disappointments that they have had or have. They have become so adapted to the flow of things that the world offers them, that even attempting to adapt to a new environment is so unusual - so awkward, so new - you know; so as opposed to actually veering off onto a totally different path just to see where it leads, they give up, they can't see past what they see, their believing is all wrong.
People are swindled into wrong thinking - the things that don't benefit us morally or in the long run. It's like believing a person's word without weighing the evidence. JESUS, is just that realm that one has to experience for themselves. If negativity is all that you are allowing to enter your mind, then it will ultimately lead to negative thoughts, then negative emotions, then the negative verbiage from one's own lips, then comes the negative actions. Because the Word also states that the power of life and death lies in the tongue, take caution!
One thing about being a leader in Christ and a true follower of Christ, when it comes to ministering to others and having to paint that illustration of what the Kingdom of Heaven is like - you are going to have to be prepared for the beginning of the destruction process that HAS to take place in order for their perspective on life and living to be renewed, the doubts, the questions.
It's like providing that person what it takes to get on the right path, but the decision is left up to them to go left or go right, they can get right or get left! The difference is the results of the two. The word also says to seek the Lord while He may be found, while there is time.
When Christ died, He died that we might have life and that we may have it more abundantly. He didn't say that it would be easy, comfortable, or convenient, the promise is that even though we sin everyday, He is still good to us in every way, He doesn't give us what we deserve, but His grace and mercy are so satisfying.
The Way I see It: Things will work out for the good of those who love the Lord. Even when we mess up, if we are sincere in our hearts the desire to become righteous, and the want-to change attitude in a person, then He will so graciously move in the supernatural so that the thing that set out to destroy you ends up molding you for better. HALLELUJAH, AMEN!B.BLESSD
haha! I love this question. Because if you click on it you must be at least curious about god and if you are curious you are searching and if you are searching he will find you.
Just want to set the believers to reality
are you not taking into account the many, many of us who WERE believers at one time, or the innumerable people who have genuinely searched and found absolute silence in response?
Well, sometimes it feels like a person writes something just for you. That's good writing. Thank you for replying.
“I have lived on the lip
of insanity, wanting to know reasons,
knocking on a door. It opens.
I've been knocking from the inside.” Rumi
To reach the unbeliever, showing God's love is the key factor, even in the face of hostility. The Holy Spirit will do the rest.
Yes, it's true that God is a light to the World but he won't reveal himself to everyone and also we can't say that everyone in the world is the child of God. One can believe and accept God as Light only if the spiritual eyes are opened by the God's power. Hope this clarifies.
You're assuming that your god does exist. You may "know" he exists, but to those who do not share your beliefs, they can easily attribute it to chance, luck, imagination, or whatever. Not quantifiable and not measured. This doesn't mean that you're right or wrong necessarily. I've heard the term "unverified personal gnosis" and it seems to fit handily.
If you can't prove it through logic and reason, nor can it be proved through repeated scientific measurement, it can't be proven. Unless those who do not believe the way you do have some type of change in their own beliefs, all you're doing is annoying the heck out of them.
Many people here assume that the atheists were not raised Christian or in a religious household. Many have and rejected that faith due to a number of issues, including the illogic of it.
manatita44 mentioned that one cannot do forced conversions. Alas, he has not studied history. There have been plenty forced Christian conversions.
God is scary. Knowing god exists is scary. And when you experience it. You don't doubt. Doubt and questioning itself takes you further away from the truth. People who would demand proof in anger and attitude are angry themselves and frustrated at the
I will never understand the mentality of worshiping something that scares you into doing it. Even when I was a believer, I wasn't scared of god.
that's what I mean..that's questioning. When the fear comes not from mind but from spirit. It is different fear. Different feeling. God is love but still a holy entity. You can not fast at the top of a mountain but converse over a bowl of ice cream
Rae-Leigh you said, "Knowing god exists is scary". I think for believers it would be just the opposite! It's what allows them to endure the harsh waves of life, that there is a reason (why) things are as they are. Believers should feel assured.
every individual is different..a holy experience IS scary. I had one, I speak for myself. I could lie, but why would I.
It's because they won't open their eyes, and they won't see until they do.
We have to see, and hear through spiritual eyes, and ears.
It is also possible they aren't suppose to see, because not everyone is
Thou hast heard, see all this; and will not ye declare it? I have shewed thee new things from this time, even hidden things, and thou didst not know them.
10. And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
13. Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
J: You have answered your own question, "... you have to believe and "faith" evidence into existence." However, most non-believers continue to seek "proof" and therefore "study" documents other than scripture. The Scriptures says, "TRUST in the Lord with ALL thine heart,and LEAN NOT TO YOUR "OWN" UNDERSTANDING!" (Proverbs 3:5) It did not say find "every historical document" and search ALL places OUTSIDE the Word of God to prove what I have said is true!
However, as "carnal" individuals and not "spiritual" as we should be, we find ourselves seeking "proof" from places other than the Word of God. The Scriptures says in II Corinthians 3:6, "Who hath made us able ministers of the new testament, not of the letter, but of the spirit; for THE LETTER KILLETH, but the SPIRIT giveth life!"
You can't "show" the "light switch" to non-believers! They must open their hearts and minds and "believe" in Scripture, by being given scriptures or "planting the seed" in their hearts and minds. That is our responsibility as disciples of Christ, to "plant the seed!" I Corinthians 3:6 says, "I have planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase!" God shows them the "light switch" if they seek him with a "pure heart" believing on His Word!
But the Bible is the claim, not the evidence of that claim. Something cannot be the claim and the evidence of the claim at the same time. For example, if I say "aliens exist", the statement that aliens exist is not evidence that they do.
"Believe' then you will see evidence of the claim!
No, that's backwards. The time for belief is after being shown evidence. Otherwise, you're just guilty of confirmation bias.
No "faith?" Won't work! You will never receive benefits!
I'm not interested in benefits. By your logic, you could decide one morning to believe in unicorns and then stumble on a stick and use it as evidence that a unicorn dropped it there. That logic is absurd.
Not interested in Benefits? What can I say but I'm sorry! What if the Bible is right as you claim it not to be? You loose nothing in this life, but will gain benefits!
That's called Pascal's Wager - its an emotional appeal used when there is no evidence. There's a 50/50 chance there's a god. There's a .01654384 chance that YOUR god is the right god out of all proposed gods. Those aren't great odds.
If the definition of faith is believing something without evidence, do you use it for anything else except religion? Do you have faith in gravity? Do you you have faith in health, or do you rely on evidence based treatment options?
Yes, I have "faith" in WHATEVER is written in the Word of God! Isiah 48:13! Healing, yes!
I understand that you do. I'm asking you why. Why did you decide that "faith" but not evidence was appropriate for religion, but not in any other aspect of your life. Why this religion, and not any of the hundreds of others?
Because I "Believe" with all of my heart and have "faith" in the Word of God "supernatural" things occur in my life that have "never" occurred before (BENEFITS!) 1 Ex: I laid hands on a person once in a revival and the "power" of God overtook him.
The answer is 2 Corinthians 4:4: The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
But someone who is well versed in the Scripture, such as you, should already know that.
A light switch is a physical object that can be located.
It can respond to sense data (touch, feel, sight (when turned on)).
It can be tested to exist in a science lab.
The light switch can always be found. You don't need faith to find it
God is neither capable of response to sense data, nor can be tested in a science lab.
God cannot be found. You have to have faith to believe.
Therefore either this analogy proves nothing, as you are comparing two completely different concepts.
Or the light switch exists and God does not - proved by logic.
It is my opinion that the answer to this question lies in the idea of degrees of reality. It has been posited before that the idea of a thing may contain reality, but to a lesser degree than the actual thing. It is far easier to learn something about a chair than to learn about someone else's idea of a chair. If God is real and absolute, then it would stand to reason that he is the most real thing in the universe and therefore, the most knowable thing in the universe.
However, if God is indeed infinite, then trying to fit that knowledge into a finite mind would be like trying to fit two gallons of milk into a one gallon container. Impossible. It is important to note that you COULD fit one gallon of the milk into your one gallon container.
To illustrate how this is relevant to the point, I will use an example involving light. We know that of all the light sources in our solar system, the sun is the brightest. It gives off more light than anything else. Therefore, the sun is the most visible thing in our solar system. However, it's impossible to look at without damaging your eyes.
That is how God is. The most knowable, actualized thing in the universe, but knowing him would take more time and brain power than any one of us will ever possess.
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Why do people try so hard to prove that there is no God......that everything happening is pure luck or whatever they think helps them achieve it
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