Why Man Created God?

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   jainismusposted 12 years ago

   
   In a forum, I asked a question: Why God created atheists? Now I ask, why man created God?

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      Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Why did you create the big question mark?

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      ib radmastersposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Man created God to control the people.
      Man created Laws to control the people.
      
      Without these controls more people would be running amuck, then just the ones that don't fear the law or God.

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         jacharlessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         So, what you're saying is: God = Laws | Laws = Gods?

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            ib radmastersposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            no
            
            people create both God and laws to control people
            With the creation of God, people control people
            With the creation of God, people control society.

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            jonnycomelatelyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I heard that the penalty for bigamy is - you will get an extra Mother-in-Law for your sins!

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         artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I don't think people would run a muck without God but they are easier to control.

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      artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      To explain what he was unable to explain, to give himself a bigger purpose, to scare children and reward obedience, to control the masses.

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      Chasukposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Freud hypothesized that man creates God after he realizes that his mortal father is not really a superbeing, hence he creates God as a proxy replacement.
      
      He details this theory in his book, The Future of an Illusion.

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      ib radmastersposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      The problem with forums, is that it is like a room full of people talking at the same time, with no one really listening.
      
      I can't make sense of the flow in forums.
      Like this one, I have no idea what results is brings to the question.

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         Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Dido   dido dido dido dido .........  ?????

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      Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      No man would have created the God of the Bible. He behaves too differently from the man-made gods of other cultures.

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         Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         

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         EinderDarkwolfposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         You would be extremely surprised.

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            Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Unless you have evidence you've yet to present, I extremely doubt it.

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         jonnycomelatelyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Yes. Chris, "He" behaves differently from many of the bigots who masquerade as followers of Jesus.  I have seen so much unintelligent,  egotistical nonsense in these few Hubs recently, that it is mostly a waste of time and energy responding to them.
         
         Show me a christian person who is sincerely a follower of goodness, patience, kindness, non-judgmental and knowledgeable about homosexuality, and WE all will be listening and warming to him or her. 
         
         When christians complain that atheists are ganging up on them, they should not be surprised.  Ignorance is one thing; spouting false claims and presenting them as universal fact is another.
         
         You and I have had reasonable discussions here.  Others have done likewise.  So it is not like there is no reasonableness around.

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            Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I completely agree, but sometimes reasonableness means knowing when to agree to disagree. I value the conversations I have with you and some others, and don't kid myself that I'm "evangelizing" you or anybody else. Nor do I kid myself that sometimes believers aren't guilty of the same type of behavior that they accuse atheists of. I've gotten bogged down in useless arguments because I needed to be "right." But, just as surely as sometimes an atheist can learn from a believer, so too can sometimes believers learn (good things, I should point out) from nonbelievers.

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   jacharlessposted 12 years ago

   Question why. the mark. you did create?

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      Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      

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         jacharlessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         

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   Paul Wingertposted 12 years ago

   God(s) was/were created to give an explanation to the world when no other explanation can be reached due to simple observation. Along these simple observations, the idea of a flat earth being the center of the universe. The god worshiped by Jews, Christians and Muslims is believed to be a combination of gods worshiped by the Ancient Eqyption Cults since Judism was based on these Egyptian cults and in turn, Christianity and Islam are based on Judism. In modern times, renowned physicist Stephen Hawking and co-author Leonard Mlodinow state in their book, 'The Grand Design', that it is reasonable to ask who or what created the universe, but if the answer is God, then the question has merely been deflected to that of who created God. In this view it is accepted that some entity exists that needs no creator, and that entity is called God. This is known as the first-cause argument for the existence of God. Both authors claim however, that it is possible to answer these questions purely within the realm of science, and without invoking any divine beings.

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   Larry Wallposted 12 years ago

   Man did not create God. God created the universe and all that is in it. Can I prove it no, but I accept it as a matter of faith. If there was no God, we would have no moral compass, there would be no peace anywhere, scientific advancement would be decades or centuries behind where it is today. God created man and gave him free will. The free will to make his own decisions, to decided if he did or did not believe in God and if he was going to follow his rules.
   
   God did not create atheists. God created men of free will and some chose not to believe in God and thus they are atheists.
   
   Do I accept the Adam and Eve story--not completely. There is a second story of creation in Genius where God creates man, not a man or the man, but man as in mankind. For awhile man enjoyed paradise. The whole world could had been the Garden of Eden. God was not obeyed and man was cast out of the garden. Did he demote man to a sub species that would have to evolve through evolution and learn on his own the blessing that God had bestowed--very possible. Did man develop from a lower species. I am sure he did. Was it the Great Ape. It could be. So you ask why do we still have Great Apes. There could had been two species of the Great Ape, with one important difference. One species had a soul and it was that species that developed into present day man. These are my opinions and I cannot prove them. I think they are feasible. I do know and it is based on Faith that God is real and created the earth, its inhabitants and the universe. We may never know how or why while we are on this earth. When our time is up and we meet our maker, perhaps everything will become clear to us in an instant. Again, it is all based on faith.

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      Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      

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      EinderDarkwolfposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      So we go back to people would've all destroyed themselves without God? I hardly believe that, especially considering how long the world survived without Christianity to begin with, and how much better it was doing at that time!
      
      If you say so.
      
      Errant thinking, a deliberate misquotation on your part. God created man and woman at the same exact time in Genesis 1 before creating Adam and Eve.

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         Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I'm not attempting to defend Christianity here. But, how do you figure the world was doing better prior to Christianity? I consider that to be an odd statement. What was better about it?

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         Larry Wallposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         No, in my bible, the first creation story is Adam and Eve, the second creation story is about man and woman. I was not quoting directly and if you though I was trying to mislead that is possible.
         
         God still existed before Christianity. God has always existed.
         
         Do I think we would all be rioting like animals, I don't think so. However, without a moral compass and without the hope of a heavenly reward, i.e. salvation and forgiveness of out sins, I am not sure everyone would be on their best behavior.

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         Larry Wallposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         There was no deliberate misquotation but I did make a mistake about the order of the creation stories. I apologize for that error, but I assure you it was unintentional. It does not change my belief that God created Man and man did not create God. Man has created many false gods, But the Real God has always existed.

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            janesixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Thor?

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               Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Zeus

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                  Paul Wingertposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  There has been countless gods since man started creating them. One is no better than the other since they all came from the same source, man's imagination.
                  
                  "If there was no God, we would have no moral compass, there would be no peace anywhere, scientific advancement would be decades or centuries behind where it is today." LOL!
                  
                  Technology seemed to do very well in the ancient world without God. China did very well in the early years along with other great civilizations. Actually Christianity was responsible for stifling a lot of advancements in science. Remember it was considered anti god to say something crazy like the earth was not the center of the universe and vacuums do exits during the church controlled Middle Age? Also the non funding of stem cell research during Bush’s reign. There has been countless wars, slaughters, witch hunts, inquisitions, and many more examples of senseless murders in the name of God for the last 2000 years. No one needs a god to tell them murder is wrong, anyone with half a brain can figure that out themselves.

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                     Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     +1 particularly as pertaining to technology and science, the times where humanity had advanced fastest and achieved most is when religion took a backseat. From the ancient Greeks, to the Chinese dynasties to the Renaissance.

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         cruelkindnessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Religions fuel hate for one another.

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      artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Isn't living someone else's fantasy wonderful?  You can believe whatever you like, I would rather believe what is true.  Man created God, I have proof of this.  Depending on the region you will get a different God or Gods or set of philosophical religious beliefs.  Hence, whey Christian God never went to Australia, North or South America, Lower Africa, or anywhere else, until the Christians went to them.  Hence, why there are over 20 different religions, many still practiced to this day and far older than the Judeo/Christian Religion.  Hence, why science has yet to find a need for God in any part or function of the Universe and most physicists have no religious beliefs what so ever. Hence, why History and Geology, and Anthropology and Archeology and Astronomy contradict everything the Bible says about the "genesis" of the world and the universe.
      You can believe in your God, have faith in your God but the honest answer is, you just don't know, you don't have any of the facts because you deny looking because you KNOW you won't find God in any of the answers.
      God was created to control people like you.

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      jonnycomelatelyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      In my understanding, the Garden of Eden story was:
      
      1. a story to describe how the world came into existence.
      
      2. a description of an ideal world in which everything was in total harmony.
      
      3. an ageless metaphorical explanation of how we humans built up, or dug, our own set of problems. It happened because we learned (evolved?) to think, to reason, to forecast, to ponder our choices.  With this freedom came infinite worry and anguish.  We entered the world of Hell.  Without the free choice we could have simply existed and enjoyed the fruits of the Garden.
      
      That fruit of that "Tree" was what gave us the Knowledge of Good and Evil.  The seed of the Tree has grown in us, exponentially, ever since.  The fear of making a wrong choice is the hole which each of us digs for our self.
      
      The Buddhist Way points in the direction we need to travel, i.e.,  making the right choice. In fact any choice can be the "right" one but the Journey always starts from NOW.  Be still in the Moment and know that I AM.  Jesus said the same thing!

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         cruelkindnessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         So who was the first person to document or to tell this story?
         
         The right choice is to believe in what is known to be true anything else creates misdirection.
         
         cruelkindness (subliminally thoughtless)

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      ib radmastersposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I disagree
      
      People created God to control the people
      and People created laws to control the people
      So the modicum of peace, as little as it is was the result of the people and not God.
      
      The problem with Faith is that without a foundation to support it, is just blind faith.
      
      If you have faith in your child doing well at school, it is because you see something that the child is done, and from that you extrapolate the faith into the next event for the child.
      
      But with the biblical God, there is no foundation for faith.
      The world today is chaotic, and evil, and this is the way it was since recorded history. The reason for the no change is because the people have not changed since recorded history.
      
      There is little if any correlation between the Old Testament and the New Testament, except that they were both written by many people, over a long period of time, and way after any of the events that they were writing about in it.
      
      Faith and Higher Intelligence are diametrically opposite. If a God exists, it should be able to be found through intelligent queries and investigations, rather that referencing ancient dubious documents.
      
      If a God wanted faithful servants, they would be dogs.
      Even the bible admits that the angels weren't faithful. They according to the bible have seen God and all that he has to offer, and yet a third of them left him and Heaven.
      
      Also according to the bible, Evil could not exist without God.
      just some thoughts...

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   janderson99posted 12 years ago

   Its interesting that the question mark appears to be a full stop with a spirit, genie or cobra arising from it. Who rubbed the dot?
   
   

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      Castlepalomaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      The smartest caveman in the Cave created God to explain why natural events that had been  killing them, like floods earthquake and etc were happening. The smartest caveman created adult fairy tales for the other cave people  to follow his power trip.

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   Lee Teaposted 12 years ago

   To ask why man created God suggests man has the ability to create, like God. So, I hypothesize man created God to explain his own power, which he could only learn by studying apart from himself.
   These God questions on hubpages sure do draw a lot of responses, don't they?

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      Larry Wallposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Yes religion questions do draw a lot of debate. Freedom of religion is one of our rights as American citizens. On HubPages that right is questioned, supported, ridiculed and sometimes ignored.
      
      No doubt early man created false gods. The Greeks certainly did, as did the Egyptians and others.
      
      I know God saved my life once by making sure the right doctors and nurses were with me. There was one critical moment where I was losing ground. A supervising nurse from another floor happen to walk by my room, saw my condition and had a team of professionals working on me in no time. I was not her patient. It was not even her floor and every supervisor did not command the respect she had throughout the hospital. They were able to get me under before I went into a coma. You may call it luck, coincidence or something else. Trust me, it was a miracle that she was there at just the right time, or I would not be here today to argue these points.

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         artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         "No doubt early man created false gods. The Greeks certainly did, as did the Egyptians and others."
         
         All Gods are false, Your particular God has no trace of even existing before some of these "other" "false" Gods....  why?  Because he is also false.
         You can believe God did whatever you like, doesn't make it true, doesn't actually bring comfort except in the face of total ignorance to reality you seem to have to how the universe and everything in it functions.
         
         Sorry I don't mean to seem like I am attacking you, I mean nothing personal by it, I do come off as all sorts of bad things. Arrogant, Smug, Angry, hateful.  Trust me I am none of those things...  maybe a mad when someone uses God as an excuse to attack the rights of others. 
         
         Religion, God, is a personal belief, not a public one.  If you don't agree with how someone else lives then you can say so but you must move on and stop telling people how they should live when they don't even believe the same as you.  (not you specifically, other Christians).

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         cruelkindnessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         The easiest way to control society is to have them believe in a define creator that we never see or meet.  However, the rich and wealthy are the ones that have told the people that this creator(god) has confided in them.  Based upon this those selected people have created the religions we have today,
         
         The grand scale of deception used to control mass groups by using tools such as a sacred scriptures, texts, and books.
         
         We are taking the word of humans as its coming from the creator of all.
         We just trust our fellow humans as if they would never lie or deceit
         
         Think about it!
         
         I'm sure you will answer to this question with no facts and just theories of your religion which will prove nothing accept ignorance.

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         Paul Wingertposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Larry Wall - You're not very good at making a strong point, aren't you?

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   Lee Teaposted 12 years ago

   Much concern about who's right and why, but none over who's co tent now. Very entertaining.

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   Lee Teaposted 12 years ago

   *content

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   Skeptical Theistposted 12 years ago

   I have read through responses to this thread and I am left with a few questions and thoughts.  If man created God AND LAW to keep order among the crowds...
   LAW is often...generally designed to protect the ideals and beliefs of the more powerful human groups, whether powerful elite or powerful majority.  GOD is often abused...not used...by man to manipulate the masses into cooperation via fear and whatnot...cooperation with the powerful members within a society.  LAW limits human free will.  GOD abused by man, whether or not this God is invented, ostracizes certain less influential members within the masses...severely limiting their human free will...oppressing them, so to speak.
   
   I have plenty of people who would exemplify that it is certainly not necessary to invoke god in order for individuals to possess a moral compass, promote and maintain peace.  And please teach me more expediently:  is the divine end of free will merely our decision to "follow a bunch of so-called divine rules?"
   
   In my opinion, man makes a beastly god...and I do mean that man creates/invents quite beastly gods...
   
   I will end with this:  The only mercenary appeal offered us by Jesus Christ was pretty damned shrewd, and would be impossible to indict him over in a courtroom filled with atheists. 
   
   Here is the mercenary appeal of Jesus Christ: 
   
   “Let go the grudges you hold against those who have offended you so that your father in heaven will be able to forgive your debt and offence as well.”
   
   Humans either invented God(s), or else humans have always possessed an innate desire to...discover the Real McCoy.
   
   Skeptical Theist

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    Larry Wallposted 12 years ago

    Actually I am. You may have some issues expressing your views.  Your last comment contained a double negative "you are not" and "aren't you" making an answer impossible. No need to reply. I am finished, but do not fear--God loves you.
    Good night.
    
    P.S. I let the half of brain comment go by...way to easy to reply to...kind of like the self-made man who stopped too soon.

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       cruelkindnessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       The Question is what if we are all wrong?
       What if there is no religion that is even close to the big question of why we are here?

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          Larry Wallposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          That is why God watches over us and forgives us for our faults and failures.

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             artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this

             That didn't even begin to address the question. It almost insultingly ignored the question.

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                Larry Wallposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                I do not think we are all wrong. Therefore, I see no need to validate the question. You can discuss it all you want, but I am not going to argue it with you.

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             Castlepalomaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             Larry Wall
             
             Beam me up Scotty, there is no intelligent life on this Planet

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                cruelkindnessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Scotty!! beam us up!

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    Jeramiposted 12 years ago

    As far as I am concerned; God is whatever it was that caused all of this to begin in the first place.
    
       under this definition, can anyone logically disagree?

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       Chasukposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       I can't disagree, but, to me, this is the equivalent of defining a bacon cheeseburger as, "anything that I eat which provides nutrition."

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          Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Not really ...   but using your terminology  it is like saying something that is nutricous is a bacon sandwitch ...   know what I mean?
          
            Edit...   Well it is 3 AM  and I was just checking in and just had to say something to that which I saw?

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             cruelkindnessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             I love bacon
             So could I say bacon sandwich is a religious right?

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             Chasukposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             I guess I was saying that your definition, to me, seemed like abstracting a fairly specific thing into a very general thing.
             
             If you literally have no other definition of God, then I retract my comment.

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                cruelkindnessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Definition of god to me is the answer to existence.

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                   Chasukposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                   Sorry, but that's a little too nebulous for me to ascertain your meaning.

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                      cruelkindnessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                      When we transcend we will all understand what God really means  to us all and when we do we will then know the meaning to this creation.
                      
                      Think about it
                      
                      Cruelkindness

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                         cruelkindnessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                         We all agree no matter what religion or non religion in some shape or form  God is the divine. (creator)

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                            Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                            No, we don't. This is meaningless as there is no creator.
                            
                            Think about it.

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                               cruelkindnessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                               in the end I could just be my own divine.
                               
                               Think more about it

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                                  Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                  Or there could be no such thing.
                                  
                                  Now - actually think about it.

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                                     cruelkindnessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                     A creation is everything. Everything created itself. 
                                     
                                     Even if there is a creator( single entity) that entity had to be created as well. thus leaving me to this final point that everything is  the single entity  it doesn't make sense for there to be a creator separably creating everything.  It would only leave us back to square one with who created the creator.  In conclusion everything is the creator of creation.
                                     
                                     I'm just sayin
                                     
                                     Chew on those thoughts
                                     
                                     cruelkindness(subliminally thoughtless)

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                Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                I didn't mean it in a general term rather the opposite.
                  Whatever the creation thing is; is what some of us call God.
                  We attempt to draw pictures of God (in our minds) and define him in many ways attempting to satisfy our curiosity.   These pictures are never accurate while being correct.
                It is kinda like ...  a Mustang is a Ford yet a Ford is not necessarily a Mustang.

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       cruelkindnessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       "God must love us, he invented beer"
       -Benjamin Franklin

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          Castlepalomaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Who created Hell?

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             cruelkindnessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             Humans its called war.

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                Castlepalomaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                When humans spend 20xs more on war, than researching energy
                Then most often these wars are battles over oil and not about all the energy we need just underneath our feet.
                
                Then yes I agree, we create our own Hell on earth, led by battles in the name of God, more so than any other reason

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                   cruelkindnessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                   the tool to fuel the violence.

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                      Castlepalomaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                      Red Hot demons, set on fire by Religion

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                         Castlepalomaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                         Pay BIG MONEY, GET YOUR RED HOT WEAPONS AND DEMONS HERE,

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    justmesuzanneposted 12 years ago

    Whether or not God exists doesn't matter. What matters is that belief or non-belief are personal issues. Each person is and must be free to decide whether or not God exists for him/her. That decision is the right answer for that person and should not be foisted off on any other individual. The "God problem" lies with people who believe they have found the ultimate answer and try to shove it down everyone else's throats!

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       artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this

       I agree with you 100%. If it weren't for all the religious people trying to force their way of life on others, teaching religion in school, women's rights, anti evolution, religious laws, anti gay, etc etc etc... If it weren't for them I probably wouldn't bother coming to these places to assert my position on the issue.

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          justmesuzanneposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          In Matthew, chapter 6, Jesus says to pray privately, do charitable acts privately and fast privately rather than shouting on street corners, announcing your generosity and making sure others see how much you suffer from fasting. He says to do these things for their own reward rather than to get the attention of others. Good advice all around, I say!

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             artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this

             Too bad Christians don't actually follow Jesus.

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                justmesuzanneposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Some of us do! We just don't holler about it! LOL!

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          Larry Wallposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          The only thing I would ad to your reply is that "if it weren't for all the non-religious people trying to force their way of live on others, prohibiting religion in school gay rights, anti-creation, etc, etc, etc. If it weren't for them I probably wouldn't bother coming to these places to assert my opinion.
          
          You see what works for one group works for the other group. If you chose not to believe in God, I will accept you and add you to my prayers for all non-believers.
          
          If you know that I am a believer, you will do everything you can to try and rattle my faith, make me explain everything that is the wrong in the world and then ignore me when I make a point you cannot challenge.
          
          This is going to be my last entry. This hub has gone on long enough and frankly, I do not think anything has been accomplished. I do not believe that one opinion has been change. For us believers, that is a defeat. The non-believers probably consider it a win, because they did not lose any ground.

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             EinderDarkwolfposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             So your reason to coming to an atheist forum is because your a homophobe with issues regarding non-indoctrination and anti-creation. At least you let us know why you dropped in.

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                ib radmastersposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Einder
                
                I wasn't involved in your discussion, but I don't like your use of the word homophobe, it is used to demean, and it is derogatory.
                
                It has more to do with the way you use the word, than the word itself.

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                   EinderDarkwolfposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                   Can you point out his reasoning behind not liking gay people, and being scared of them, without using his religion or anything else that his religion has propagated? If not, then I used it in the complete correct context, regardless of if it's considered derogatory.

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                   Larry Wallposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                   I am not attacking your views but I questionn your. Assumptions. I believe in evolutionm I think it was part God's plan. I am surprised you put so much faith in court ruling. I greatly resent your facist reference. I do not know where that came from. You ask me to prove what I believe. I believe in God, Jesus and prayer. It is a matter of faith which you either or insist on proof because you do not want to accept apower greater than yourself.

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                      cruelkindnessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                      He never said anything about not accepting a greater power.  Its just hard to not question a faith that was made by man when around the time when man had no intelligent to even create electricity, have a fair trail for the accused,  or even invent your optical glasses to improve your blurred visions.
                      
                      Think about it.
                      
                      Cruelkindness (Subliminally Thoughtless)

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                      EinderDarkwolfposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                      It's hard to attack what someone hasn't expressed to begin with. My views aren't something I share, they are something I lock up tight and keep to myself. The world doesn't need to know them, it doesn't affect anyone elses life, and that's the way that it should be.
                      
                      It's not that I put faith in court ruling so much as I put faith in people. If you don't have faith in people, then I truly feel sorry for you.
                      
                      What fascist reference are you talking about? Are you referring to being a homophobe? I do not know what else to call someone who is so scarred of homosexuals that they have to try and make it illegal, and they think it's ok. Anyone who would rather alienate people then accept them, so that they can feel better about themselves, has some serious issues that needs looking into. That's how it started with Hitler after all.
                      
                      I never asked you to prove what you believe. I've been the believer, and I have overcome the trappings of being such. It's not important to me whether or not a higher authority exists anymore, only how people treat each other. Under no means is it ok to alienate or hurt people because you want to be scared.
                      
                      As for faith, which is only another word for confidence in case you didn't know that, I have confidence and I do not insist on proof. I insist on people rising above the primal instincts of hate and fear. No matter the reason, these are still primal instincts that all men and women should be striving to overcome.

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                      cruelkindnessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                      Ignorance comes from the ones who no little about the ones they are judging..
                      
                      Cruelkindness (Subliminally Thoughtless)

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                         Larry Wallposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                         I judge no one--that is not my place in life. I can disagree, but I do not judge and you cannot produce any evidence to the contrary.

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                            cruelkindnessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                            Your assumption show your judgmental you said you come to these forums because non-believers are here trying to convert the believers.  which lead to you saying
                            
                            I believe in God, Jesus and prayer. It is a matter of faith which you either or insist on proof because you do not want to accept apower greater than yourself.
                            
                            No one said they don't accept the power of a greater than thy self.
                            
                            Let me end this on a question to you Larry Wall.
                            
                            Based on your believes if someone is not christian do you think they are going to reap consequences after death?
                            
                            Cruelkindness (Subliminally Thoughtless)

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                Larry Wallposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                I have never said anything about homosexuals. I have mixed feelings about the marriage of homosexuals. I thought the civil union was a reasonable response. Many did not agree.

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                   EinderDarkwolfposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                   So you never said the above at all? Seems odd that I can quote it from you and yet you never said anything even remotely like it. Perhaps not shifting stances would be a good idea?

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                   Skeptical Theistposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                   A note to Larry.   Just as first century Jewish tax collectors, Samaritans, women, prostitutes, and other people who were notorious for being deemed morally inferior...just as these human beings were prevented from fully participating within the heart of their society, so the twenty-first century LGBT community is similarly excluded from participating in the very heart of things within our modern society.
                   Larry, consider Luke 15:1-2, which reads, "Tax collectors and other notorious sinner/criminals often came to listen to Jesus teach.  But the morally dominant and superior religious leaders--and teachers of the Law--would often lurk in the bushes, grumbling bitterly over the fact that Jesus Christ would choose to associate with such outcasts...even break bread and eat with them!"
                   Therefore--if you study further--Jesus turned to these morally superior religious guys and told three stories:  the story of the lost sheep, the story of the lost coin, and the story of the lost son.
                   What LOGIC do you believe Christ was attempting to convey to these morally superior holy guys when he told them these three stories, Larry?

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             artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this

             No ins is forcing these rights on you?!?!? People are trying to have these rights. There is no hypocrisy here. You haven't lost any rights in any of these issues or ever will! Your statement is a complete lie and you sit are a liar! Non religious people have not forced any of these things on you. In a public forum then the non religious or other religious views are all valid or private. Hence the word secular because it pertains to no philosophical view. Gay rights doesn't affect you. No one projibits religion in school but whose religion? Yours? Public school is not for religious practices or teachings!  That is a private matter! Creationism has already been proven to be a fraud in three court cases!  You can tell it to the next person because if this is your stance it's fascist and not Christian! You think about what it is I am here for! I am not forcing you to believe as I do I am asking you to prove that what you believe is valid if you expect me to believe anything you have to say! These forums are neither religious or atheist they are for everyone to discuss these issues.  Evolution vs creationism???? Court has solved this. Gay rights??? Again have nothing to do with either of us and don't effect either of us.  Everyone has the right to be with whomever they wish and it's none of our business who it is!!! I could careless what you believe and I don't care about "rattling your faith" it doesn't matter to me. If this nation were primarily Islamic you'd hear me talking about that but do I? Or what about hinduism?? Have I said one word??? No! It doesn't effect me. It's rules and laws are not an issue. I have always challenge any point you had that has been "valid" so far you don't have a valid point.
             The only reason your opinion has not been "swayed" is because you ignore evidence out of fear of losing your faith. That's your problem and I don't care. But the second people like you tell my children they can't learn what science uses because it's against your religion. Or force them to pray or fear them to pray in a secular school or hand bibles out in front of their school. Then it offends me. Try doing that in a Jewish school or an Islamic school, I dare you! Stay out of secular society where people of all faiths and no faiths can come to learn and live without forcing their beliefs on each other. That is my goal. Not to end christianity or religion but to stop it from attacking the quest for scholarship in science and actual history!

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             cruelkindnessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             I beg to differ, religions have there members ride around on bike looking to convert or going door to door or advertising on the web or tv.
             
             Who pushes who's ideas on who?
             
             We heard these believes before are you willing to be open to some new ideas?
             
             I'm just saying
             
             Remember Frustration leads to Aggression.
             
             Um... Why do wars star again?
             
             Cruelkindness (Subliminally Thoughtless)

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             justmesuzanneposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             Larry, your Win/Lose attitude sums the problem up in a nutshell. Live and let live is a respectful win/win attitude.

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             jonnycomelatelyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             Larry, I sincerely hope that your life lives up to your christian convictions. 
             
             I mean, do you conduct your business affairs in absolute honesty?  In a selfless way?  Do you do your utmost to work for your client's benefit? 
             
             Do you see every human who comes into your field of expertise as genuinely human, and not inferior in any way?  Or do you compartmentalize humans into white, black, rich, poor, worker, dole-bludgeon, hetero/queer, young/old, etc.? 
             
             Because, Sir, to be quite honest, living the life of Christ is much more important than talking about it.  An example lived will do much more good than a proclamation of belief.

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    Druid Dudeposted 12 years ago

    Everybody needs a role model.

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    jonnycomelatelyposted 12 years ago

    How can we ever know?

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       cruelkindnessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Upon death would be when the answer is revealed.
       
       Cruelkindness (Subliminally Thoughtless)

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       Castlepalomaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       I know because I am my own role model,
       Well, at lease for 50% of the time

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    oceansnsunsetsposted 12 years ago

    Which Gods are you referring to?  How do you know they are all created by man?

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       jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       What is this 'god', if not a human concept?

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          oceansnsunsetsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          A self existing reality, being, intelligence...(among other things lol)
          
          This kind of being can't be created by humans.  Extra gods, made up ones COULD be made up, and in that sense are man made creations.

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             jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             And your conviction was all 'existing realities', beings and intelligence needs creation!

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                Castlepalomaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Rather then fighting the system of 90% of the people that believe or think there is or most likely a God OR gods out there. Why not? make everyone god because each one of us do best when we serve ourselves first, in order to serve others better.
                
                We all are spiritual being first,  sometime having low energy human experiences. Other ways to look at it.  is the kingdom of heaven is within each one of us and we all are co creators with God. Why seek answers from so called spiritual leaders who make false promises and mess with the truth. Only 3% Christian go to church regularly anyways, and it works better when we can think for ourselves
                
                Serving some other God first, makes us all slaves to over obedience of mysterious we will never know or get much closer answer toward them.
                I am king of my own domain, how about you guys out there, are you a god too?

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                   Skeptical Theistposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                   If I am a god, I must be the most incompetent of them all.  If I could invent WIMPs (so-called exotic particles that hypothetically make up dark matter, and could involve more than three-dimensions...which might come in handy for building a time machine)...and if I could create an amino acid...or better yet, an entire alphabet of amino acids...so that I could more effectively re-code my own DNA, then I think I would code it such that I might prove to be a more competent god. 
                   
                   Ho-hum...and bother...
                   
                   (not neglecting to mention, hee-hee)
                   
                   The universe (er, I mean...the multi-verse) certainly causes me to long for some alien intelligence who is socially brilliant, and who would open his/her castle door to me once he/she was finished making his/her preparations for...something...something that is BETTER than, this.
                   
                   And I am not an unhappy person.  It is just that I know too much information.  Here, let me unload that information so that everyone on this forum can "know it" with me.
                   
                   There are people alive today who have no clean drinking water, people on this planet who will not be able to find food today, people who are sick and without doctor or medicine.
                   
                   I do what I can to help.  I think we all do.  Still, it just seems that if all 7 billion of us put all of our resources into solving this sort of stuff, as opposed to building Hadron Colliders that are supposed to solve the riddles of our material reality...if we turned as much effort and resource toward helping the desperately poor, I think we would ALL probably start looking more like Jesus Christ.  That is to say, we would all start looking a lot more like the sort of gods all good creatures can do business with.
                   
                   Heck, we may NEVER solve the horrific problem of desperate poverty, but I'd bet my Jeep that THIS would bring the marriage of God to Religion permanently to end, once and for all.  It would put love into business.  And it would isolate the intelligence responsible for amino acids and DNA so we could see him/her for what he/she truly is.
                   
                   I mean, lets face it.  The skeptics are right, guy.  Even if God exists...we religious folk have ruined Him.  We have turned God into something he absolutely IS NOT.  And we've done it with religion.  Which is all they have been saying.  Man invented God...and keeps amending and changing and inventing ad nauseam.
                   
                   Sorry...just saying.

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                      Castlepalomaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                      A deceit challenge, You pray to a super natural God, AND what do you get..
                      About a 50/50 chance it will happen, yet when you think of yourself as God you have a much BETTER chance with confidence you will succeed and I have been right with my dream list for 85% of the time for the pass 30 years
                      
                      What ever works

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                         Skeptical Theistposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                         That sounds cool.  Congratulations!  We're in trouble when we haven't any dreams!  I like your thinking.

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                            Castlepalomaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                            You got your dream list?

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    Skeptical Theistposted 12 years ago

    I am attracted to approaching questions about a God/Creator with the "what if" disposition.  I find it very unlikely that any one group or individual has the emphatic scoop on such a reality, if indeed it does exist.
    The only human being who appeared to have the most credible authority on the matter of a God/Creator was the man written about in those for first century canonized NEWS reports, some of which were authored by a rather motley crew of journalists (Matt, Mark, Luke, John); namely, the much rumored about Jesus Christ.
    Someone commented something along the lines, "too bad Christians do not actually follow after Jesus Christ."
    So true.  Sad, yes, but true.  In fact, of the Christians currently reading this, raise your hand if you find it quite facile to actually live the way Christ lived? To become suddenly UNMINDFUL of your own reputation, while taking up society with those among us who have been been pushed out of the heart of things?  To literally lose everything because of your focused concern and association with the most despised among us?
    THIS was what Christ did, and THIS he commissioned us to do.  He did not commission us to shove some religion down people's throats.  He did not commission us to colonize our beliefs onto non-consenting others.
    Oh--and raise your hand if you have ever taken Christ's suggestion to us for being shrewd...or persistent to the full hilt of those extremely risky commissions...while also going just as full hilt in being gentle as doves? 
    Truth be told, none of us finds that following Christ's model comes naturally.  None of us, whether believer or no.
    But he was more spot on in the LOGIC he conveyed to the world concerning God/Creator than any before or since...that is, if one takes the time to actually thoughtfully study his teaching...his lectures...his parables...his works.
    Christians may not be very "believable," but Christ's LOGIC was pretty freaking shrewd.  Christ's LOGIC was almost irresistibly believable!

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       Castlepalomaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Welcome to the forum skeptical theist,

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          Skeptical Theistposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Thank you for the welcome, Castle.

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       jonnycomelatelyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       In a similar vein of thought, I wonder how people dressed up in flowing, theatrical garb; genuflecting to a picture or a glass of wine; puffing smoke around the place; repeating the same old songs week after week - etc., etc., can have anything to do with what that person Jesus was talking about.
       
       When people sit around, using off-the-cuff prayers with the intent of speaking to "god," most of the time they are really talking to their neighbour in the room.  It's a sly way of telling him/her what they should be doing to tidy up their lives and become more acceptable.  Nothing to do with spirituality.
       
       "We just thank thee, Lord...."    What a load of dribble!

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          SallyTXposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Indeed! Jesus was co-opted by the rich and powerful a long time ago, and thus the Catholic church was created.

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             Skeptical Theistposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             Interesting that you should say this, because--according to first century journalistic rumor, Jesus Christ chose to found a society that he had supposedly named, his "church," upon relationships he built with a small society of poor, outcasts who were notorious for being morally inferior--while he (JC) systematically  (and repeatedly) referred to the morally dominant and superior--not to mention, powerful and wealthy--religious leaders of this time as a "brood of vipers" whose father was "the father of lies."

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    noenhulkposted 12 years ago

    Each has own belief and opinion. No one can brag you about what you believe and don't believe. Man is created equal by God. If you find yourself higher, does this mean you have an atheist mind coz you don't open your mind to reasoning?

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    speaseposted 12 years ago

    Man creates gods to fit what he wants them to be for him. Anything you worship is a god for you.  If you believe in the one true God, you won't create your own  god.  Men enjoy sin, if they want to keep sinning and justify it, they need to create a god that will fit around the sins they like.

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