are the end times near?

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zerbini87posted 12 years ago
If you read the scriptures, especially the New testament, reference upon reference mention that in time, one day, God will call His children to Himself. So, is that time near, is Revelations going to take place soon?
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  DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I seriously hope so...I, for one, could really use the peace and quiet...
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Me too! I can't wait for god to take all of the believers up with him. And no matter what, we can't allow him to bring them back, no matter how much they get on his nerves!
  
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  pisean282311posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  @ts end time is definitely near but not for world and universe but for christianity....@randy agreed man...world would be fun to live in then...
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  jacharlessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Revelations already took place: it was the revealing of the work of Y`shua Moshiach. How do I know this? Revelation 20.5-6.
  Ask yourself, when did the 1st one happen and what follows immediately after that event in Revelation 21?
  
  As for the "time" issue. The Hebrew word Yom means "span" or "period in which things happen" and days, or time as we perceive it, began during the 4th Yom.
  Yom also refers to Eternity and Eternal Life.
  "In time" He will call His children, and He did indeed do so, in the realm of time. He called them "in time" to live outside of it.
  Time or days ends when Yom begins, it is simply a matter of acquisition, by the individual.
  
  James
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  jacharlessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Furthermore,
  
  There is something eerie about the supposed prophetic end.
  Something overlooked by most readers and that something is the planet itself.
  According to the SBT's [Seals, Bowls, Trumpets], the earth itself -and objects in outer space- are the most hard-hit by these events.
  
  As most are willing to concede, this thing called sin entered just the human race.
  The planet itself never sinned. So, why would Creator destroy the planet, its animals, etc when it had nothing to do with the entrance nor exit of the sin stigma?
  
  The only other theory I have read is liked to the Time Machine scenario, where the evidence of all civilians of man would be removed completely and the planet go back to the way it was before humans. To achieve this scenario, a single mile of added top-soil/earth would be required.
  
  James
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Nope.
  
  However, there are plenty of people taking advantage of those who are gullible enough to believe it.
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  autumn18posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I think people have been saying the end is near for hundreds of years now. I don't believe in end times though so no I don't think they are near. I could be wrong though.
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Disappearingheadposted 12 years ago
I'm not sure there is an End Times at all.

- Jesus has completed the work
- The new covenant is here
- The sin of the World has been taken away
- The Kingdom of God has come and is within us
- Death and the grave have already been defeated
- The bride of Christ aka the New Jerusalem is already here and made of living stones.
- The resurrection of the dead happened at Jesus resurrection
- The sun was darkened and there was a great Earthquake at Jesus death on the cross
- the old has already gone and the new has come.
- We are new creations
- As in Adam all died so in Christ have all been made alive.
- The rock that was cut out has smashed the feet of the last kingdom made of iron and clay (Rome) and has become a great mountain that continues to grow to fill the Earth.
- It is finished, Christ reigns, and there is nothing else for God to do.

Jesus never said there was a "second coming"; but he did say that he was coming back after his death, which he did upon his resurection. If there is a second coming, this is it, it already happened. Every eye shall see him; when they die.
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  regstarposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well...God still has to deal with Lucifer. That's something to do.
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  pisean282311posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  @regstar god is capable of being eviler than lucifer as seen time and again...humans dont need lucifer , god is enough...
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  regstarposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well of course humans don't need Lucifer but to answer @Disappearinghead's remark that there is nothing else for God to do I thought, well, He can deal with Lucifer.
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  Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Lucifer is not Satan. The term only appears once in the bible in Isaiah 14, and here it is the king of Babylon being discussed not Satan.
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  mom101posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  disappearinghead,
  I like your answer.
  This has been a question asked many times over, and one I have studied many times as well.
  zerbini87
  Its hard to explain really, but the jest of it is something like this.
  Most of the prohesy has been completed. The second coming, the more I think about it is or will be when we pass on.
  Every eye shall see. ......... This would explain that passage.
  Every knee shall bow..........As of right now, there are so many who do not believe. And if part a of this theory holds true, then, when those nonbelievers see the trueness of of their disbelief, then they will be so, overcome, they will bow.
  Now, for scripture you quoted, heres my take, please understand I work with children, and my answers are (have to be simple)
  The battle between God and satan, well, we see the effects of it, yet, the battle itself, no eye can see.
  I believe there will be atime when the battle will be over. and I do believe the sounding of the trump is sounded each and every time a non believer accepts Jesus. because, prior to his/her acceptance that person is dead in Christ.
  Death escapes no one. we will meet up with those who have gone on before.
  Always will be with the Lord. Once saved always saved.
  Yes, encourage one another.
  
  I know i probably didnt get my point across, and i apologize.
  but it is food for thought.
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  zerbini87posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I appreciate you taking the time to honestly answer this question! I agree with you said about us being dead before we accepted Christ. Look at Ephesians 3.
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  Michael Jonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The end times began nearly two thousand years ago and will conclude when Jesus returns to establish His millennial kingdom. The kingdom is an important theme throughout scripture. It is the goal toward which all of redemptive history progresses and yes, history is coming to a close.
  
  Exactly when? I don't know but there are signs described in the bible which indicate when the time is near. Some of which can be found in Matthew 24; "Signs of the End of the Age"
  
  Acts 1:11, two men dressed in white suddenly appear as many people watch Jesus ascend into heaven and they said, "Why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven will come back in the same way (physically) you have seen him go into heaven."
  
  Also, beginning in Revelation 19:11 (The Rider on the White Horse) describes the return of Jesus as conqueror and Satan is thrown into the Abyss. He comes back to physically reign on earth for a thousand years. At that time God will be properly honored, because those whom have rejected the anointed one (Christ), will be removed from the earth, justice is provided, the rebellion is ended and the Lord, our God will be in complete control.
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  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  ???? (The Rider on the White Horse) describes the return of Jesus as conqueror and Satan is thrown into the Abyss. He comes back to physically reign on earth for a thousand years
  
  Where exactly does scripture say that Jesus comes to earth for a 1000 years?
  I've not found this written in scriptures any place !
  
  I've heard a lot of preachers saying it! But I don't see it written anyplace is the bible!
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zerbini87posted 12 years ago
Thank every one for your input on my question. @Disappearinghead, would you then consider yourself an amillenialist(in that there is no millenium and we are living in the kingdom now)
If you believe the resurrection of the dead happened at the cross, how do you interpret 1 Thessalonians 4: 13-18?
But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. AND THE DEAD IN CHRIST WILL RISE FIRST. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. Therefore encourage one another with these words.

@pisean, thank you for your input, I am curious, how is God more capable of evil? how would you interpret this passage?
"He committed no sin, neither was deceit found in his mouth. When he was reviled, he did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten, but continued entrusting himself to him who judges justly. He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed. For you were straying like sheep, but have now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls."
(1 Peter 2:22-25 ESV)

@regstar, I agree with your opinion,
2 Peter 3 :10 states,
"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.
God still has unfinished work/
Also, Yes, God still has to deal with Satan.
"And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season" (Revelation 20:1-3 )

So, what do I think? Yes the end times are near. According to the passage in Thessalonians, those who are alive(or those who have believed) will be caught up to live with God. If you are really interested in this topic, take a look at this link:
http://www.theopedia.com/Premillennialism

Thank you everyone for your input! I will definitely be following this forum.
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  Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm just trying to re-understand Revelation from a different view. Right at 1:1 we are told that this is the revelation OF Jesus that God had already given Him which was now being relayed to John at a much later date. Thus the things that were to happen soon are from Jesus' frame before His crucifixion. Compare Rev 6:12-17 (6th seal) with Matt 24-28-30. Jesus had already been given the revelation. Now also see Matt 27, at the crucifixion the Sun was darkened, there was an Earthquake, rocks split, and men were terrified. Seals 1-5 already happened before the crucifixion.
  
  In Matt 24, Jesus said the Great Tribulation would not be matched by any World event before or after implying that the World would go on, that is, the Great Tribulation did not signify the end times. This sounds like the destruction of Israel in AD70, and it's being wiped of the map in AD135.
  
  Rev 12 has already happened.
  
  Rev 17 looks like Israel is the prostitute as this is what Ezekiel also called her. Israel's time passed with the New Covenant, so this has happened.
  
  Rev 18, Babylon aka Israel has already fallen.
  
  Rev 21 is here with us now. Compare 21:6 with John 19:30. Rev 21 was fulfilled at the cross.
  
  However, having said all that I do have some doubts about Revelation as written down by this John due to the Babylonian astrology worked into it. He says he sees four living creatures on four sides of the throne. In his time the Earth was thought to be flat covered over by a rigid dome of heaven on the underside of which traversed the sun and moon. The stars were thought to be gods, or angels to John, as he knew there was one God. I think that he simply gazed up to the sky and perceived four creatures in the pattern of constellations. The Ox being Taurus, the Lion is Leo, the Man is Aquarius, the Eagle is Scorpio, where Scorpio is unique in that it has two images. The Babylonians and Native Americans saw an Eagle, we in the West see a Scorpion. These four zodiac signs are known as the fixed signs and sit at the four cardinal points of heaven. You can see this on an astrological chart and an astronomical star map.
  
  If he perceived a comet as a dragon with a very bright tail that obscured the stars, then he might say that the stars he can no longer see have been swept from heaven by the dragon's tail. Angels are often likened to stars in the OT.
  
  My personal view is that John was mixing in images from the OT, Babylonian astrology, Persian superstition inherited during the exile, and his own imagination.
  
  Many in the early Church and later Martin Luther had their doubts about Revelation, I do too.
  
  But to answer your question, a thousand years is as one day, there may not be a millennial reign as commonly understood. Jesus reigned from his ascension until now.
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  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I can agree with much of what you say, but not all.
  
  In the OT Jerusalem was referred to as the adulterous wife of God.
  Jesus often called the Sanhedrin the sons of Satan.
  So can it be said that what the Scribes and Pharisees stood for was Satan or the Dragon?
  Through out the book of Revelation the symbol of the Dragon remains constant.
  In 326 AD a religious organization was established which we might say, rides upon the back of the Dragon.
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psycheskinnerposted 12 years ago
No.
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  zerbini87posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Do you have an explanation for your reasoning?
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  psycheskinnerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You don't really have to prove a negative. There is no more reason to think the end times, assuming they exist, are imminent now than since the bible was written.
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  zerbini87posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Ah, all right, thank you for that, I totally agree with you. My answer was to try and explain different concepts to all of the commenters. I believe once sin entered the world, the end times had to happen.
  I do believe the end times are imminent, but also that certain things in this world that seem to hint at the end times as coming. However, we have no real idea when they will be, besides that it can happen at any time.
  
  Do you think the end times exist?
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  psycheskinnerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  In the fundamentalist/literal Biblical sense, no. I don't even think most of the current dogma about them is an accurate reading of what is in the Bible. (e.g. expecting the antichrist to be an actual person)
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livelongerposted 12 years ago
My experience is that those evangelical Christians who (think they) are near death tend to be the most assured of an imminent approach of the 'end times.' So when I hear someone say that, I wonder if they're having health problems, or something else that's reminded them of their own mortality.

For the record, I am not Christian and do not believe the end times exist.
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Randy Godwinposted 12 years ago
The end is near has been touted for thousands of years now. So far, everyone who said this has eventually died. I suppose they were correct in a way, because "their" end was closer when they uttered the statement. Some like to believe they have the ability to predict such things because they interpret things badly. They are wrong.

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  mom101posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hello Randy,
  
  You are so right. No one, has the ability to predict the future.
  
  This holds true to doctors who are dealing with a terminally ill patient as well. I think they should never tell that patient they have x amount of time left.
  The end time? Yes, touted many years, and my guess is, as long as their is life, there will be more touts.
  Death escapes no one. I firmily believe our passing will be the end time.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I also find it hard to believe a god would actually have to battle his creation for anything. A snap of the godly fingers should suffice if a deity is truly all-powerful. Otherwise, your god isn't as bright as he should be if he didn't already know the tempter's plans and created him with equal--or almost--powers anyway. Makes no sense whatsoever. Sorry!
  
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  mom101posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  i agree, a godly snap could easily clear the field.
  but here is the kicker.
  we have free will.
  just the opposite, Randy,
  makes all the sense in the world.
  just requires one to think
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  autumn18posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Didn't God cause a flood to wipe out a whole bunch of humans? Isn't that interferring with their free will?
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  mom101posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  autumn,
  if you read the story, and understand it, you will discover, He warned of the flood for many years.
  Is it His fault people choose to ignore truth?
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Why did you ignore my question in my response, to you earlier, Mom? I can ask it again if it's too much trouble to look back. I would like a response as it entails your claim of "free will". So far, no believer has responded to this question and simply ignores it instead.
  
  Edited because you were responding to my question when I posted this.
  
  Free means no cost. Free will does not have a cost or price to pay. It means making a choice with no repercussions, with no risk of penalties. What you describe is not free will at all. It is merely extortion or blackmail in an attempt to garner wanted results. No ifs, ands, or buts!
  
  Call it extortion or blackmail and I'll have no problem with it. But free will is simply a falsehood when it is used in a biblical context. Not acceptable.
  
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  mom101posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Randy
  I had to run and do a few errands. sorry it has taken me a few to get back to you.
  Free will, ok, one errand, i went to pay city property taxes. Had i chosen to take the money and blow it, and not pay taxes, i could have chosen to do so. But, there would have been repercussions.
  There are with any choice made.
  But, no one is holding a gun to your head making you make any choice you make.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Right! There is really no free will in most cases, Mom! This is why I protest believers using the term in their arguments. But lets see if the next time you say "God used extortion to try and make us choose him over evil" instead of "God gave us free will...."!
  
  Try using the former if you really want to be honest with yourself and those you are speaking to. I'll bet you'll still go on using the same old falsehood though.
  
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  mom101posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Randy.
  Why would anyone try to blame God when they make wrong choices?
  People, we all do it, we try to make things so much more complicated than it is.
  That is the age old question that should be asked.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I never blame an imaginary deity for anything, Mom. But I do blame those who accept nonsense and expect others to follow their lead. Jim Jones held sway over a large group of people using your same logic. They listened to the rantings of an idiot who was so convincing he talked them into killing not only themselves, but their children and visitors trying to help his followers see the truth about the idiot. But like you, they were convinced god was speaking through a mortal man.
  
  Blaming your god for problems would be the same to me as blaming the Easter Bunny. I feel the same way about both of these mythical beings.
  
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  mom101posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I choose to go get all liquored up. I get caught and charged with public drunkeness.
  By your reasoning, the fine they assess me with, is blackmail? Right?
  Or if i choose to go get a steak from the butcher and walk out with out paying, and he presses charges, thats extortion?
  I believe we have spiritual free will. God, or the Higher Power, walks with us every step we take, if we choose to veer off the path He intends us to travel, He will be right there waiting when or if we make it back to that point. He doesnt stop us. He doesnt push us.
  There are holes in the Bible theory. Many thing s are not meant for us to understand
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Not the same thing at all and I see why you can't seem to understand free will if this is the way you look at things. You are comparing getting drunk and stealing steak with being threatened by an invisible deity many feel doesn't exist.
  
  If you knew for sure you would be burned for eternity for getting drunk or steal meat I doubt you ever consider it no matter the circumstances. In this case free will would not even be in the picture. Any such action would be overridden by the knowledge of certain death and agony. One isn't free to make the choice because of the repercussions of the act.
  
  You are comparing laws for the benefit of peaceful co-existence between mortals with supernatural creatures only you believe are real. Otherwise, everyone would be sitting in a church with you on Sunday, not because they willed it to be so, but because their life depended on it. I suppose you think the slaves who lived and died serving their masters in this country had free will too. Sure, they could have ran away, but they would have been beaten or perhaps killed for exerting what you describe as their "free will".
  
  Why do you "believe we have spiritual free will"? How did you come about this information? I know nothing about you but am willing to bet you were raised in the bible belt, definitely a southern state as I am extremely familiar with your answers. I can also guess you have been indoctrinated into your beliefs at an early age and have never looked at other possible religions at all. Your responses reek of southern baptist preachers I have heard most of my life.
  
  Technically, these same preachers destroyed any possible free will you might ever have had by telling you how and what to believe when you were a child. You probably inherited your beliefs from your parents or grandparents. You had no choice in the matter other than which christian church to attend. And you wish to offer examples of free will to me?
  
  But feel free to tell me how wrong I am about you. I'll be waiting!
  
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  mom101posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  How odd Randy,
  Yes,i am in the heart of the bible belt. TN
  I attended a southern baptist church, UNTIL,
  I was able to attend the church of MY choice. It is non denominational.
  Your jaw would probably drop to the floor if you knew my belief.
  I personally believe Christianity as a whole is off kilter.
  Paganism, is more in tune with the true Higher Power.
  I think you know enough about both to see the differences and truths. I do firmly believe in karma. what goes around comes around.
  I do believe our souls will carry on when our last breath is drawn. I am a person who sees the Bible as a tool, a guide, at best on how to try to live a spiritually healthy life. You and i agree though, it has been written and rewritten so many times, and because of it, if taken literally, can be confusing at best.
  I am no bible thumper.
  But Randy, i do believe each one of us has a cross to carry. Each of us have a responsibility to the next generation, to those around us, to ourselves, so, yeah, we all have crosses.
  I have studied many years in this area and the simplest answer i can give is, personally i believe there is a power way higher than self, if not, we would not have a conscience. We just wouldnt give a flying ----.
  Be true to ones self.
  .....
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Not odd at all, Mom. I've dealt with all kinds of "believers" in my long lifetime here in southern Georgia. Most have lives similar to yours where their parents chose their beliefs for them and the church did the rest. A child's free will is quickly extinguished unless they are strong willed enough to think for themselves, as I did. But most aren't capable of doing so and the result is what you see here on these religious forums.
  
  Their reality is distorted to the point where thy cannot distinguish between morality and their religion. I see this all of the time with racism and bigotry part and parcel of the christian faith here in the deep south.
  
  I'm glad you found a better system of faith. Most will never try to break the bonds of religious slavery they have been introduced into. More's the pity.
  
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  mom101posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  and no, as you might can tell, i am not swayed with the opinions of others.
  
  That was and still is a big pet peeve, dont tell me how to think.
  The time our children enter school, they are taught to conform instead of think.
  My take on commentaries is this, they are just someones opinion.
  I can not fully explain the Higher Power to others satisfaction, but, i will say this,
  it is there.
  and until you tune in, you are just going to hear static.
  Now, dont go and twist that. Im friendly foe. lol
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  zerbini87posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Randy can you explain in more detail why you believe Biblical free will is blackmail?
  
  John Piper, a devout believer says,
  "It is not a saving power. In his freedom to will, fallen man cannot on his own do anything but sin. Such “free will” is a devastating reality. Without some power to overcome it’s bent, our free will only damns us.
  
  We could stop here and turn with joy to the gospel truth that God overcomes our resistance, gives us life, wakens our dead inclination for Christ, and freely and irresistibly draws us to himself (John 6:44, 65; Acts 13:48; Ephesians 2:5; 2 Timothy 2:25-26).
  
  Romans 9:16-17: "It is not of man who wills or runs, but of God who has mercy." Our willing and our running are not decisive. "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for God is the one who is at work in you both to will and to work for his good pleasure." Verse after verse in the Bible teaches that my willing—which is real, responsible, accountable—is not decisively and ultimately my own creation. It is God's decisive governing.
  
  My willing is real. My willing is responsible. And this is what's glorious, if you ask me what's the most glorious universe: the most glorious universe is the universe in which we really will things, and we are really responsible for what we will, and we will be held accountable for the choices we make. And God is still absolutely sovereign over those willings.
  
  That's the great paradox. That's the great mystery and the great glory. Not the universe that somebody creates out of their own heads where everybody is endowed with the autonomy that only God has.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And this person is an idiot.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No one has absolute free will whether they believe in magical beings or not, Zerb. All actions have repercussions in some form or another. You choose a strawberry lollipop over a salad and you risk tooth decay or getting fat. Sure, no big deal, but still this is the chance you take. If you even consider the repercussions free will is gone from the picture.
  
  I understand you think there is an invisible god to answer to. All sorts of similar gods have been worshiped and have frightened humans since the dawn of time. These gods were also invisible with priests of some sort telling their followers what they must think and do to please their particular god. Funny how your god uses the same tactics as the many false gods which came before him, isn't it? You'd think your REAL god would have chosen a different method of convincing humans to believe in him instead copying the false gods rituals and actions, but apparently you haven't considered this.
  
  But tell me please why Zeus, Thor, Quetzalcoatl, etc. aren't real and your god is. I hope it isn't merely because of the old myth book.
  
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
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  mom101posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  where DO you come up with such pretty smilies?
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Click on the formatting symbol on the lower right of the posting box, Mom! The smilies are there!
  
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  autumn18posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  But he still drowned them taking away all their choices.
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  zerbini87posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What do you mean by taking it away?
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  autumn18posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well if they chose to go for a walk and then eat lunch with a friend but God sent a flood and drowned them before they could then their choices along with their lives would be taken away. I know that's kind of silly but it explains what im getting at. I don't think we really have free will regardless of religion.
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  zerbini87posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  They had already chosen in their actions(easily shown by their outward Actions) that they wanted nothing to do with God. So God wiped them out and started again with those who did have a heart for Him(ie. Noah and his family).
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  autumn18posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So it sounds like we are agreeing that there is no free will.
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  mom101posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  autumn
  i am glad you believe the flood happened.
  Most non believers do not think the flood happened.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  There's a reason for why it couldn't have happened. It's not mathematically sound, nor is it engineering sound.
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  autumn18posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  A flood I can believe but I'm not so sure about the plausibility of Noah's Ark and the whole thing being caused by a God.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  If someone tells you to do something you would not normally do or they will kill your child, do you have free will to make the decision? Or would the consequences of saying no override your normal choice? Putting conditions on free will makes it not free anymore. Even a child can understand this.
  
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  mom101posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Randy,
  Life is full of choices. Believer or non believer, we make them each and every day.
  I look at it like this, i own my house. Anyone who knows me is welcome to visit. At my house, i have a few very basic house rules. If those are broken, then people go.
  My son, love him with all my heart, and he is just entering adulthood. He knows that if he should get out away from home and get in trouble he knows it would be futile to call me. Im talking drunk or caught with drugs, which, he does neither.
  God is no different. He just puts it to us like it is. If we want His home, we follow His rules, same with satan. I imagine his rules are more in tune with the majority of the world, so therefore more acceptable.
  Either way, we have a choice.
  Middle ground? Aint none.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  mom101posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  i like your little smileys..
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  zerbini87posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for feedback on this forum!
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  mom101posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  zerbini
  Thanks for posing the question.
  Here you will learn and learn quickly most dont care too much for the spiritual side of forums.
  I am not one of those.
  Good luck to you in your search of The Truth.
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  zerbini87posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And thank your for your encouragement!
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  zerbini87posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Randy, yes God could snap His fingers. Just look at Genesis and how he created the earth. With just a snap of his fingers. But look at when he came to earth and died on the cross. Couldn't He of just snapped his fingers and demished the Romans who were about to kill Him! Yes of course, but that simply was not part of God's divine plan!
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Really? And, you know this how exactly?
  Again, how do you know he just snapped his fingers?
  Jesus died on the cross? Really? Can you prove this without using any religious book?
  Divine? Yet another believer of mystic ideology.
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  Druid Dudeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Gee...maybe the indians didn't kill Custer at the Little Big Horn. The only witnesses were illiterate indians...we have to take their word for it. Gee...maybe Alexander never existed. Could have all been made up. First house I ever lived in is gone...maybe it was never there! No evidence it ever was.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Your common reply.
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  Druid Dudeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Common, as in that's what I always say? Prove I always say that.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah right. Like I am going to go through the 3,333 posts you've made. This isn't the first time you've posted foolishness by example.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You mean there was no evidence of dead soldiers to show Custer had lost? No missing men or other soldiers in the area who saw the evidence of their deaths?
  
  Can't you at least show a little common sense, DD? Perhaps if you used lots of brightly colored text or photo shopped pictures it would help your arguments!
  
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  Druid Dudeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Might not have been indians...the Mormons like to dress up and commit atrocities. Maybe it was them.
  
  Go see a proctologist. Really taking yourseves WAAAAY too seriously. I don't take you terribly serious. makes me miles smarter than you.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You think I take you seriously, Dude? I take no believers seriously. I've yet to meet a real christian on this earth. Merely those who are foolish enough to self-proclaim themselves as such.
  
  So you believe you are the sole arbiter of who is smartest between us? I'm not surprised in the least.
  
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  zerbini87posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It was more of an expression Cagsil. He could of snapped his fingers, and maybe he didn't. The thing that matters is that He was able to do it in the first place! If you look at the creAtion account, it says He spoke and therefore it was. So maybe he spoke it instead. Whatever the case, amazing feat!
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You mean the omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent all mighty, one true G/god of the bible, right?
  
  Sorry to inform you, but it is beyond all rules of logic for all 3 of those things to be found in one place, much less powered by an entity.
  
  Pure BS.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I've read Genesis. It was written for only the uneducated to take seriously. Unfortunately, those who should know better believe it to be true. The bible has nothing to verify it's anything but old myths and tales, some simply stolen and placed in the old novel as if god himself wrote it. Primitive myths at best!
  
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  Druid Dudeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What's Genesis got to do with it? The Mayans said the world would end also...why single out christians? Other cultures have end times stories too.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  See, once again I was responding to another poster. I suppose you cannot see the quote posted in my reply or you would not keep making the same irritating mistake of thinking others are addressing you when they are simply responding to someone else. Please read who the response is to. Geeze, no wonder you have a problem understanding these posts!
  
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  Druid Dudeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  GET A CLUE...I DON'T CARE....so sue me.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Sue you? Your "I DON'T CARE" is enough compensation for me at this point, Dude. This tells me you are not really interested in discussing things at all and only like to hear the sound of your own voice. But this does explain why you quote yourself so much, though!
  
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  zerbini87posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Randy thank you for your honest answer to my question. I started this question because I am fully aware that there are different opinions/answers. We do not have to agree, I am okay with that. We can agree to disagree. i am enjoying the diversity on here. Again, thank you for your feedback!
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  There's nothing like a good discussion with those honest enough to admit when they are merely speculating on things which cannot be known for sure. Unfortunately, this would prevent most believers from saying anything at all in these forums. All they have is an old book with nothing to show it is anything but that. It cannot authenticate itself no matter how much they wish it could.
  
  Therefore, they must "interpret" the obvious mistakes and contradictions into something else they can make themselves believe. Just take a look at all of the forums concerning the flood. Some of the most ignorant posts I've ever seen are about this mythical event. It amazes me educated adults actually believe this stuff happened. Sigh!
  
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Druid Dudeposted 12 years ago
Anybody hear that fat lady sing yet?
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  Druid Dudeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The demise of the earth is a universal certainty. Sooner or later, someone who says it's over will be right...doesn't make him/her a prophet.
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paradigmsearchposted 12 years ago
"are the end times near?"

Yep, in fact it's going to happen in around 36 hours or so.

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/sunea … ansit.html
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jacharlessposted 12 years ago
In part, and quite oddly, I agree with Randy regarding the view of Free Will from the biblical interpretation/perspective. Free Will in meaning: no strings. Siting the issue of Eden reinforces this. Knowledge was not conditional, it was static. Life was not conditional, it was absolute. Things spin out of control when Knowledge became absolute and to prevent absolute destruction, Free Will in Life was temporarily interrupted, as consciousness {Choice} assumed control.

Somewhere, I mentioned before, that both "trees" existed in man {garden} and at no time was either uprooted.
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  zerbini87posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you again for your honest opinion. So to understand your comment, when you say free will was interrupted, are you saying Adam and Eve had no choice in eating the apple(gving into temptation)?
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  jacharlessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Ironically, Zerb, just the opposite, they had nothing but Choice.
  Choice being the fibers of knowledge -their own minds.
  Choice was an automated process of the brain. A process like those on this machine, that do what they do in the background, unaware to me.
  Yet here I am building apps, building genetic code called PHP, HTML, etc.
  I know the process is there, I know what it is for, but I do not engage or try to figure out the processor itself, nor do I let the processor rule my life, my desire, the creative result I envision -in short my Free Will.
  
  To prevent an infinite Choice Conundrum, the TOL was temporarily cut-off.
  This really changes the view and perception of the purpose of the human mind.
  Man needs his mind to be able to exist between tangible-intangible {heaven-earth}, but the issue is he indulged {ate} of consciousness {the processes within} and spiraled down the rabbit hole, inside his own head. Madness.
  
  James
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  zerbini87posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for your clarification. Let me ask you this: Could they chosen not to eat of the apple?
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  jacharlessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Of course. Again, the process of this event was not just a few hours or so. Everything suggests this was a long event. They had the "itch" to know what was in their heads. I mean, there is a wealth of information genetically programmed into humans. It only makes sense Adam would have been more than curious to understand those processes, one by one, and how they operate. That is very evident since the Inception --and especially today. What he didn't adhere to was the warning sign: Danger: Do Not Enter.
  
  I believe, once the training sessions were complete, man would have had unimaginable creative ability. No joke, I have tried to imagine what humans would have been able to do, after being taught how-to use the powers given them.
  
  James.
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  zerbini87posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Back to your other comment was the Tree of Life cut off to prevent an infinite choice syndrome , or merely to test their faith and obedience to God?
  I am not trying to say I am the better man or know it all; I would of probably done the same thing. It was the only thing they could not touch, kind of like a bowl of goodies with sign DO NOT EAT on it.
  This is enticing to us, we can choose one way or the other, can we not?
  
  Now, of course God in is omniscience knows what we will choose, but allows us to make that decision regardless.
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  jacharlessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Personally, I do not think it was ever a test.
  
  For example, I can tell my 3.5 year old about something, like the stove is hot, but I cannot force him not to touch it. It isn't that I am testing him, I am protecting him from his own curiosity. If he does touch it, I have to turn off the gas to prevent him from burning the house down.
  
  It results in him getting burned, and time to heal him -which is very important- because I want him to be healed from the burn, if he does touch it; but would prefer he not touch it at all, until he has a practical understanding of how it works. Once he fully understands and can mange fire, heat, its effect, etc, then he has infinite create possibilities to explore using it.
  
  And yes we can choose anything and everything -just like we can choose Life or choose death, with regard to the KOH within. And no matter what we choose, He stands beside our decision. But, knowing the effect, will deny access to certain things which could ultimately be harmful/fatal based on our chosen direction.
  
  We were born curious creatures. But in our own curiosity, jumped the gun.
  I think, from everything I study and think, the keyword throughout all of this is patience. Adam's patience gave way to instant gratification. Something most are familiar with today. And that process is speeding up...
  
  James.
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  zerbini87posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for that answer. So if I understand your comment and beautiful ilustration, you will believe it was for their protection right?
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Jeramiposted 12 years ago
No one has absolute free will whether they believe in magical beings or not, Zerb. All actions have repercussions in some form or another. You choose a strawberry lollipop over a salad and you risk tooth decay or getting fat. Sure, no big deal, but still this is the chance you take. If you even consider the repercussions free will is gone from the picture.

Randy this statement has more truth in it than you may have intended.
Though free will still exists in considering or not the repercussions.
Like saying that God said it is a sin to lie in the sun until the meat cooks and falls of your bones. Does that make this God evil for saying to NOT Do It or else?
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  zerbini87posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Great answer! I agree!
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Cagsilposted 12 years ago
The hubber who posted this thread has been banned from HubPages.

He invited me to check out one of his hubs and I went to do so, and it says he is banned. He just started following me and commented on one of my hubs.

I have only seen him in the forums a short period of time and so far his posts have been quite civil in nature.

So it makes me question, why he was banned? Yes, I know I'm not likely to find out, but it's odd.
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  jacharlessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I agree, he was very civil.
  He followed me and I reciprocated, just about an hour ago.
  Strange things are afoot at the Hub K, my friend.
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Randy Godwinposted 12 years ago
The bans--or whoever controls them--have become quite disturbing here lately. Perhaps the OP did something we are not aware of and indeed deserved to be banned. But some of us know from personal experience there are some who are targeted for them while HP's "special" members are protected from being banned because of their position and attitude.

This is wrong! There's no excuse for favoritism in this particular facet of HubPages. I've fought hard to keep the playing field level for members here and suffered the consequences for it. I warned about this in a thread many of you are aware of not long ago. I've reported the "special" members before for obvious slurs and insults against the common members with nothing at all being done to the perpetrators. This is ethically and morally wrong. We all know this is the case. This is not acceptable, HP!

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paradigmsearchposted 12 years ago
I figured out why he was banned. It had nothing to do with his forum posts.

Here is a clue: He posted 9 hubs in his first 36 hours here...
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I thought it might be something like that. But with some of the petty bans lately it does make one wonder. Trust in this site seems to be fleeting since the hall monitors get to remain anonymous when they ban some and protect others.
  
  I do not see it getting any better in the future.
  
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  paradigmsearchposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  btw, glad to see you back and well. http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/97260 And stay away from those power stations.
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  wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The one hub in the cache has 4 links to his site, 3 of them through a proxy. Actual text and information was almost nonexistent - the hub was written solely to get those links.
  
  If it is indicative of the "quality" of his other hubs I'm surprised he lasted 36 hours.
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webclinicianposted 12 years ago
No one knows when is the end going to be. It will happen anyway as like any other things, the sun will die and most things on earth may follow.
People who thinks that the end is coming in their lifetime is right and wrong in some sense...the end of the world may not happen in their lifetime but their life stops.
We will all die, no need to worry about it. If there is an afterlife then so be it.
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iefox5posted 12 years ago
End of the world? Maybe not year 2012, but next year or the year after next.
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