It is said, that with faith we can move mountains. This got me to wondering and pondering on another angle of religion. Do we want and need Jesus so much that we manifest him into being? Most Christians will answer, "No, he was sent from God and not manifested out of our faith." For the devout Christians, I agree with that statement! However, there is another side of me that sees energy when we speak of the spirit and faith. Some believe in the Devil, but is it that the Devil really exist for those who believe (or move their energy to that thought) so that energy manifests into an image of a devil? Did not God speak our world into being...manifested by his sacred words? Don't we always say to think positive and positive things will happen? So are we willing energy into our lives and manifesting? God made us in His image, so is it possible to move mountains with our faith alone as He did with His sacred words?
All the will power, faith or belief in the world will not make the cells of your brain or body able to control the energy necessary to move a mountain. You may, of course, use other methods of control (direct your muscles to contract, moving the levers of a bulldozer) but you cannot directly control that energy.
Neither can you "will" energy into your life and you cannot change it into matter, "manifesting" something.
Positive thinking does indeed promote positive results, but this is merely a result of your own attitude affecting not only your willingness to act but others around as well.
Thank you for your thoughts. If I were to meet you and smiled a pleasing smile, you would probably smile back as a result of my energy in a smile being thrown your way. So maybe I manifested that smile on your face? I feel energy is more than just electricity and fuel.
Your smile produces my smile because of your positive attitude creating one in me, not because you "threw" energy my way. The motion of facial skin and tissues on my face is not the result of you providing the energy to move that mass; it is the result of my brain telling certain muscles to contract.
Your feeling is right in that energy is more than electricity and fuel. There are various forms of energy in the universe. Electromagnetic (light in all it's forms), potential energy (a raised concrete block, waiting to fall) and radiation (block of Uranium giving off alpha, beta or gamma radiation) are a few of them. None of it is directly controllable by our cells in the amounts necessary to move mountains or even raise a pencil to a higher level of potential energy however.
We are limited to the minute quantities of electrical energy necessary to control the movements of our muscles; even the energy of that small movement is produced by chemical reaction, not our brain cells. We can only provide the minute control energy.
I agree with you in the physical world, but I am pondering in the spiritual way that might cross over to the physical. Is that possible? If you wish to be scientific and answer then how do you explain miracles in healing? These are just thoughts and question that keep popping in my head. With respect to all views, know I am simply curious how others see it.
Here we seriously diverge in our understand and thinking. I know of no "spiritual" world outside of either imagination and/or hallucinations. The "spiritual" world "entered" by use of peyote, for example. Nor are there any "miracles" in medicine if you define "miracle" as something that happens outside of natural law. There never have been nor are there now any miracles by that definition. Modern reports of miracles by people that take no effort to understand, miracles described by millenia dead peoples that did not begin to understand natural law, yes, but never an actual instance of a miracle.
Understand that our ignorance of the details of how a particular healing process took place does not in any way mean that it was spiritual or supernatural; it means that we don't know what happened. To infer or claim that our ignorance means such cases happen outside natural law is silly - our self professed ignorance precludes any such claim.
In any case the "spiritual" world would have to supply force and/or energy to affect the "physical" world, and there has never been a repeatable case of that happening, so we cannot know if it did indeed happen or was simply another case, like millions of others, of people making claims based on ignorance of the world we live in.
It would help enormously if the spiritual, or supernatural, world was defined, but it never is. This means that we cannot investigate, cannot know, anything about it as everyone has a different definition of what it is.
Every single case of a miracle being investigated to the point we understand it has resulted in a gain of knowledge of our world, not the spiritual one as the miracle somehow always seems to follow natural laws. The major exception, of course, is healing "miracles" as it is not usually desirable to investigate such things to the depth normally required for knowledge - the resultant corpse is not generally happy with the result.
Again thank you for your thoughts. I love your conciseness. I am viewing it from a very spiritual point. I walk with Medicine People, my husband one of them. I have seen and experience things not common today, so certainly my view will differ. So my next question would be, if you are not a believer in spirituality, why did you answer this question of faith?
As you say, curiosity plays a large part. I'm not as interested in your beliefs nearly as much as in the process of reasoning that you took to get there.
If I find that process reasonable and useful I may join you in your beliefs, but in any case I'm always interested.
Beyond that, though, it is not necessarily a question of faith alone. If you have evidence of the spiritual world that I, too, can see then my interest balloons. If, on the other hand, you declare that your ignorance of the physical world dictates that you make up answers involving spirituality then I'm not.
So I reply, looking for discussion. It's an interesting world, full of interesting people, and there is and always will be much to learn.
And, yes would be the more correct and rational explanation.
However, I do disagree with the "topic"/"category" in which you've place this thread. If you're thinking "religion" and it's "philosophy" type of faith, believe to manifest itself? Only to a negative. To most it's misunderstood to begin with.
That faith is in yourself and others. In something which is non-existent or improbable, then it's just wishful thinking.
Anyone can manifest an image in their mind. It doesn't make it any more real or real at all.
Which goes to show how little they know about their own religion.
Sees energy? Not likely. What you are witnessing is actions. As for what their actions speak to with regards of their faith? Well, those speak for themselves.
You're not moving energy. You're creating an image. If you believe it's real, then you would be(as others) only deceiving yourself according to reality.
Only the gullible believe it true.
Positive thinking alone will do nothing but provide oneself with a temporary fix for whatever ails them at the time. It will not remain in place. Positive action(yes thinking is an action, but physical action is required) will produce positive reactions.
I feel I chose the write topic place for this subject. But still, I see action as an energy form. Everything is created of energy, why not our thoughts. Some people can move objects, like bending the spoon or moving the cup. Just saying...... I think there is this spiritual energy that moves around us all the time.
Tapping into this energy and learning how to manipulate it is the magic!
Nope! Those people have all been debunked by James Randi. This has been proven to be an illusion, brought on by manipulating the thinking patterns inherent in the human brain.
Of course that's only wishful, whimsical thinking...
James Randi is a magician, who has debubnked Uri Gellor, and other frauds who have tricked people into believing in nonsensical illusions. There are YOUTUBE videos of some of these debunking events.
Randi has also offered a 1 million dollar prize to anyone who can prove that their supernatural claims are real. To this date, no one has claimed the prize money. Just why do you think that these illusion are true, if no one claims a million dollar prize?
i agree there are scammers in all walks of life...but I know of what I have experienced. Some of it is real....but very few and far in between!
Reality is subjective, your reality, the way you perceive things is obviously not mine
This statement truly shows you don't understand "reality" on the most basic level. Thank you.
Reality is reality. Everything else is nonsense.
If you choose to believe in silly imagined concepts with no basis in reality, then that is NOT REALITY. That's delusion.
Reality is independent of your yearnings.
Of course a deluded mind is a rigid, stubborn force, unwilling to accept reality, but searching for any means to accept improbable nonsense as reality.
"Of course a deluded mind is a rigid, stubborn force, unwilling to accept reality, but searching for any means to accept improbable nonsense as reality."
That statement clearly describes you
I picture you in a little box inside, not wanting to explore or see the outside becuse you don't think it exists. oh well
Spoken from a TRULY delusional and thoughtless mind.
Of course you have no idea about what truly thinking outside the box means. You choose to believe what others have commanded you to believe. THAT'S NOT THINKING OUTSIDE THE BOX! So it is you who is unwilling to explore the outside of the box, due to your psychotic worldview...and abject fear.
so you're still you're way off.
what fear? I don't believe in the devil, or the god all the religions beleive in.
Bottom line I don't beleive in all the religious dogma, out there.
I do believe in something else besides this existence and that even science can prove that.
You're the kind of guy that if no planes or means of transportation existed to go overseas you would think there is nothing else beyond the horizon. so limited even in 2012.
You're the guy who has been conditioned to believe that there is nothing else besides this existence because you can't, don't want to see it
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one. Albert Einstein
You do realize Albert Einstein was human, right? He was as flawed as any other human. Means, he could be wrong.
Exactly my point, so what you're saying is that you might wrong as well?
Who knows huh? Obviously not you or me?
Opend minded to other possibilities
No. I am saying that Einstein could be wrong.
As the saying goes- "what is real" / "what and how do you define real?" - when everything is interpretation coming from electrical impulses of the brain.
The question posed in the Matrix. If everything is just our mind's interpretation of all senses of the body, then there's a good chance that that said interpretation is pretty accurate. There's nothing to state that existence and the world around us(including the universe?) is an illusion.
Real is based on all knowable knowledge available. Thus, called Reality.
Providing one is being honest with themselves to begin with.
To know whether or not he was right or wrong isn't a matter. It's an opinion or belief. He did believe in a higher power, but wouldn't admit to that higher power being of any religious G/god.
My understanding is quite detailed in my hubs and not much to argue with either. I have no clue what you know.
I'm open minded about possibilities, but I'm also not stupid enough to believe in the improbable or not possible junk most believe.
going to the moon, oh wait we did that already. Flying machines, done too.
Some average person lifting a car to save someone, improbable. Done too
There are a myriad of improbable things but who can say with abosolute certainty that some of those improbable things will never be done?
yeah common sense for an average person to be able to lift a car and save someone, based on what you have written, that is impossible since all knowledge based on human anatomy would make impossible for that to happen.
yeah common sense
You make no sense. With any further conversation would only prolong the agony. What agony? The agony that comes from someone who refuses to pay any attention to themselves, then tries to indicate that people are lying because no one can know anything for certain.
There are probabilities, there are impossibilities, but that doesn't mean that these things are not unlike life. Ever-changing.
If you think a higher power exists, then do so.
If you think that that higher power is the G/god of the bible, then do so.
If you think that a higher power controls everything that happens, then do so.
But, under no circumstances are you to attempt to bring it into reality because that is impossible beyond all infinite probabilities. The rules of reality are specific, and guided based on science's exploration of the known Universe and World around us.
Will Reality change? Yes. It always changes because new knowledge is added. If you had no knowledge...I am curious....what would your perception be?
I never said anyone was lying, I merely pointed out that by saying nope to a possibility that does not mean it's a true statement. I will not have the absolute truth but neither can you.
Exactly so don't be so narrow minded to shut down a possibility just because you have not seen it.
I don't beleive in religion but I do believe in something besides this existence and I do bring it into this reality because it is possible beyond probability, quantum physics studies is fast developing and this subject without all the religious dogma is proving it.
Guided based on science's exploration of the known universe and world around us huh, so do you realize most major discoveries have occurred in the past 200 years so who's to say the god particle is finally found at the CERN laboratory in Switzerland, will reality change based on all other major discoveries, you say yes so why would someone consider certain things as stupid and nonsense just because civilization says so.
Many individuals have experienced and witnessed things that challenge the so called "reality" so just because known knowledge at this time says it's nonsense then that is true, but what about tomorrow what if they do discover a link to something called soul, then and only then it will be true huh
Good thing that many individuals throughout history have challenged the so called "truth" otherwise we might still be in the middle ages.
Truth? There's that word again. People so nicely throw it out there as if it's something which cannot be known. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't know truth if it bite you in the a$$.
Where you see possibility is in mysticism type thinking. I on the other hand will take logic and rational thinking. It's much safer for everyone involved.
Attempting to prove. They have been attempting to prove there's something beyond death, yet all that remains is nothing more than mystical hype/tripe.
The difference is logic and rational thought. Things such as irrationality only cause conflict and damage. Irrationality also comes from those who refuse to see past themselves. If you listen to your ego, sooner or later, you forget it's not suppose to be the one in charge. Just a thought.
If you talk to Jewel, she would tell you that the human psyche is the human soul. But, to get more information on that perception, you need to talk to her.
How much different do you really think we've become compared to how things had been centuries earlier? Leave out technology.
Do you really think people are freer now than they ever have been? If so, please take the blinders off.
I see a bad mentality presently ruling humankind. I'm even pretty sure it won't match what you're thinking with my saying that.
You could compare almost any part of history to times now and see a comparison. It depends on your perception. But, like I have always said, perception is more than sight.
Don't get angry, you talk about ego. You should check yours first, I said it and I say it again, there is no aboslute truth.
I will obviously agree to disagree with you but your so called "rational thinking" is not something I would ever be influenced by and the reason is that it's based on conditions placed by humankind since the beginning of time, beleive this or this or this, you have already chosen yours.
Stay on the safe path, boring but secure, I'm sure you fit in well with this society.
How in the world did you manage to perceive anger in anything I said?
ok then stay happy or whatever you want to do? and have fun on the safe path
yeah the one "safer and more secure for everybody" yeah it does sound funny hahahahaha
You deal with completely irrational people enough and you'll realize that the world is a lot more dangerous than people are led to believe.
I was in Iraq, that is danger, people beleiving in stupid religious dogma, where a koran is more valuable than a life. Guess what: that is their reality.
What I believe in has no danger at all, in fact no devil, no sin, just experience, and more beyond that
That in my book is more rational than what most of the world beleives these days, including you (well you don't believe in much)
That actually has nothing to do with Reality, as already stated. However, they are dangerous yes.
You'd be correct. I hold very few beliefs because they are dangerous.
you with the few beliefs you have and I with mine.
And, what was concluded from our conversation with regards to the topic at hand? And what was accomplished? I'll leave you to think about it.
I managed to re-affirm what I already knew. I also managed to learn from you, about you and a number of other things.
Perhaps people don't know about the prize. This is the first I have heard about it.
I'll spread the word and maybe someone will step up and showcase their supernatural talent. You know I'm just joking here. Right?
The "right" topic would be under education and science- philosophy.
Be my guest. I'm sure you believe spirituality exists inside reality too.
The only way thoughts become energy is with learning because it create new neural pathways. Other than that, they are not actual energy.
This is clearly just your opinion and they way your reality perceives things. Just like in the past one would say "is the earth round" and the majority would say "nope".
There are many discoveries yet to be found and just to say nope to something is just a narrow minded view.
Just my two cents
I'm sure that would be how YOU perceive what I said as being narrow-minded. I guess that would be your own reflection you're seeing. It certainly isn't me.
So, in essence, you're claiming yourself is narrow-minded. Ironic, you don't seem to understand. What a shame.
Please, whatever you do next, please, pretty please work on your awareness.
Good question. It forces me to consider how much faith I really have with regard to "making things happen". I have to say, I don't think I can move mountains with my mind. But, I do believe I can manifest positive activity in my environment. What I mean by that is if I remain positive and do all that I can to keep negative people out of my life, then I am likely to live in an environment that is more conducive to me having all the things I want in life. If I surround myself with negative thinkers, then negative things will happen in my life. When I look at things in a positive light, then it almost seems like there is no limit to what I can have in life.
I keep a journal. In my journal, I write down the things I want to happen in my life. I keep tabs on the things that are happening and when something is accomplished, I note the date. I tell you the truth - everything I have ever wanted in life, I have received. It may not have all come to me the way that I imagined, but it almost frightens me to look at my journal and see all the amazing blessings I have received just for asking and feeling positive that I would receive them some day. So, I have to say, yes, I do believe things can be manifested.
I find Clarke's third law interesting: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic". I would add another: Any sufficiently grandiose alleged spiritual phenomenon is indistinguishable from advanced science.
Take quantum entanglement for example, the phenomenon where two or more objects share an unseen link. Something affecting one affects the other, regardless of the distance between the them.
An unseen link between things? Being able to physically affect something with no physical connection? This sounds an awful lot like something a religious person might claim about prayer or some miracle. Of course the systems of knowledge behind each are different. One based on alleged spiritual revelation, the other scientific method, but the commonality in theme is there.
The interesting thing is that unseen links between objects is something religions have claimed for thousands of years. This was not considered an accurate description of the world by those enlightened by science, until science was sufficiently advanced to note and describe such a phenomenon.
Belief in deities aside, could it be that some religious claims are accurate descriptions of natural phenomenon, but our science is not sufficiently advanced yet to describe them? There is a lot we don't know about certain types of energy. Dark energy for example is the most accepted hypothesis to explain certain phenomenon in the universe, yet we know next to nothing about it.
We may pin religious labels onto things which is natural as we humans love overlaying recognisable patterns onto things we don't fully understand, but claims about faith, prayer, miracles etc. may actually reveal more about the natural world than previously thought.
It's an interesting question. I don't know that strong belief will create anything; but I see truth in the statement that faith can move mountains. I think, once we understand the full nature of energy and how our consciousness is capable of interacting with it, we'll move more fascinating things than mountains.
I know that often in cultural stories we compare how to move through lives with illustrations of moving mountains and it only takes on drop to start a waterfall. But the whole idea, got me to thinking about how we are just now understanding energy in both minute and vast ways. So I suppose the real question that is developing is can we spiritually tap into this energy and manifest things. When an inventor creates his invention, he is manifesting his ideas into the real world. So were do these creative thoughts come from? There is so much yet to be revealed about the spirit world and yet there are so many who do not believe. We do have that choice and I respect that, but I can not help but wonder.
I think the word spiritual throws some people off. They imagine ghosts, goblins; angels and demons. And, in that respect, your opening statement is true. Imo. The consciousness of energy we intuitively know exists is manifested, for each of us, into what we believe it ultimately is in our minds. It doesn't make that manifestation a universal truth, just our individual perception.
That is what we have to transcend. Our perceptions. I think, if we could shake off the beliefs instilled in us by others, while agreeing to the existence of a thread of truth that is found across the board in those who believe there is more; we'd make unbelievable strides.
But, that can never happen a long as so many remain caught up in the chains of religion.
Actually, he was right on. And he was as human/divine as any one of us.
Maybe, maybe not but that is just your perception. Maybe you're in the box
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