Censorship on hubpages

1. 66

   Jesusjohn78posted 14 years ago

   Since hub pages loves to censor its writers at will while allowing other contributors to discuss the same topics I am wondering if anyone knows of better sites out there.  Sites where i can still contribute my writing and monetize my writing like hub pages but with out all the BS censorship?

   replyreport
   1. 0

      Norah Caseyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      The censorship you are referring to is a hub that promotes a website that is in violation of Google's AdSense policy. This was clearly explained to you over email. Our TOS applies to everyone. If you have any other questions, feel free to follow up with us via email.

      replyreport
      1. 66

         Jesusjohn78posted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I have followed up with multiple e-mails with no avail.  I have received responses but not clear answers.  I am not promoting any website.  I am just refuting claims by another hubber about a website.  I even link to the other hubbers hub which discusses the same topic.  There are dozens of other hubs promoting the site with no problem.  I am just trying to give my opinion and experience.  I do not even have any links on my hub other then to the hub I am refuting and one hub i wrote. I appreciate what hubpages is and does but I would still like to find a site that has less restrictions so I am able to publish articles that hub pages arbitrarily deems in appropriate

         replyreport
         1. 85

            Marisa Wrightposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Jesus, how about telling us what the website was? If you don't post a live link, you won't be breaking any rules, and maybe we could offer better advice.

            replyreport
            1. 79

               Sally's Troveposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Yes, that would be helpful.  And depending on the response, maybe the end of a pointless thread or the continuation of a good conversation.

               replyreport
   2. 0

      cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      
      
      
      i haven't seen them censor anyone willy-nilly - they are extremely fair, it seems to me. why would you even post this? if you are unhappy with HubPages, just quietly go forth in search of your "better site", instead of using HubPages' own site to attack it. come on, that is really UNcool...

      replyreport
   3. 67

      IntimatEvolutionposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Hi! I just sent you an email, suggesting one such site that also offers a great forum.

      replyreport
2. 66

   aka-djposted 14 years ago

   Google it, and let us know what you find.
   I tried it and got a few interesting results.
   Not sure how close they are to HP, but I will keep looking from time to time.
   Cheers.

   replyreport
3. 79

   skyfireposted 14 years ago

   Which topics are censored ? and those topics are allowed by advertisers(ad-sense, kontera) ??? ? if yes, then please explain.

   replyreport
4. 61

   theirishobserver.posted 14 years ago

   Jesusjohn78 - I would say give it more time - relax- dont be too hasty - we all want to say what we want when we want but there are lines that must be drawn - sometimes I have to censor myself as I get carried away with the fun and laughter - dont be too harsh - maybe look at how you are wording your contributions - I would not simply go off somewhere else but rather try something different here - if I got to publish everything I write I would probably be locked up ha ha so come on relax have another look at your contributions and see can you say what you want without needing to be censored

   replyreport
   1. 0

      PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Good advice. 

      replyreport
   2. 60

      tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Sometimes that's imposible.
      I'm sure you know that !

      replyreport
5. 61

   lender3212000posted 14 years ago

   A lot of it is more being forced to comply with the guidelines of the companies serving up ads. Hubpages must conform to what they allow in order to offer the revenue share. You are going to find the same thing on any site that offers a revenue split for the most part.

   replyreport
6. 0

   Madame Xposted 14 years ago

   People used to sell their soul to the devil. Now they sell it to google

   replyreport
   1. 85

      Marisa Wrightposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Madame X, that's a silly comment.
      
      On HubPages, you could say Google is our customer, because Google pays us for our writing.  If you ran a business, you would tailor your products to please your customer - you wouldn't stock stuff that would offend them and cause them to shop elsewhere.
      
      People who want to write without restriction are free to start their own blog.  It's unbelievably selfish to jeopardise the income of other writers by trying to flout Google's rules on an Adsense-funded site.

      replyreport
      1. 0

         Madame Xposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Selfish? Put it in perspective. I don't flout their "rules" and I don't begrudge anyone who wants to write here and make money at it. More power to them. But when you work for someone else, or in this case get paid by them through Adsense, you have agreed to certain restrictions on your free speech. If that's ok with you then it's not for me to say you should or shouldn't do it. I just don't pretend it's something that it's not. If I agree to something, I make sure I know fully what it is I'm agreeing to.

         replyreport
         1. 85

            Marisa Wrightposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            It depends what you mean by free speech, Madame X.  For instance, it's against the rules in most workplaces to publicly display sexual images or use profanity, just as it is on HubPages.  I don't see that as limiting my free speech, it's part of the etiquette of the workplace. 
            
            
            
            Quite right too.  I wasn't suggesting you flout Google's rules, I was saying that people who do shouldn't be here - as you say, they should've made sure they knew fully what they were agreeing to before they joined. 
            
            And I'm not talking about Jesus here either - we still have to understand what the Hub got unpublished for.

            replyreport
7. 63

   Dale Mazurekposted 14 years ago

   When are people going to figure it out.
   
   Hubpages is a business and they need to do what ever it takes to protect their interest.
   
   Many of these people pay their mortgage and pay their bills as a result of this place.
   
   You must realize the advertising companies have terms of service that must be followed.
   
   I really cant think of a better place then here to write.
   
   If you want a free for all place then go ahead and start one and see what happens
   
   Just my 2 cents
   
   Dale

   replyreport
   1. 79

      Sally's Troveposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I agree. 
      
      If one doesn't like one's experience here, then go elsewhere.  There is no censorship here; there is only the TOS which everyone who opens an HP account is required to read and agree to.
      
      But then, who reads?

      replyreport
      1. 0

         Madame Xposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         A rose by any other name . . .

         replyreport
         1. 79

            Sally's Troveposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder...the TOS is clear; if one decides to interpret it according to one's own needs, then a reality check is in order.
            
            Given that, perhaps HP needs to rewrite the TOS to make the points of it more clear.
            
            And that's a communications issue.

            replyreport
8. 0

   Madame Xposted 14 years ago

   I think it's great that people write here and make some money at it. I'm just not going to pretend it's something it's not

   replyreport
   1. 63

      Dale Mazurekposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      And I dont think you should.
      
      I guess we all have our own opinions and we are entitled to them.
      
      You know Hubpages could get their adsense account deleted just as easy as you or I
      
      I wish I would have thought of a place like this before them.
      
      Oh well, theres just certain things we all need to stay clear of.
      
      I make money as a result of Hubpages and trust me seeing those checks go into my bank account each month is enough for me to make sure I do everything to stay with in the TOS
      
      Dale

      replyreport
9. 61

   Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years ago

   This constant whining about enforcing clearly-written, easily-understood rules is getting old.
   
   Follow the rules or go away.

   replyreport
   1. 0

      cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      i concur!

      replyreport
   2. 63

      Dale Mazurekposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Oh my God
      
      Best statement I have seen all day
      
      Dale

      replyreport
   3. 59

      chinweikeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      At least we all checked the botton that signifies we agreed with the terms of this site. Whether read or not, hehehe

      replyreport
   4. 66

      Jesusjohn78posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      The TOS are not clearly written.

      replyreport
10. 79

    Sally's Troveposted 14 years ago

    "I have followed up with multiple e-mails with no avail."
    
    It seems to me that this is an issue between you and HP.
    
    But I also hear your frustration. Sometimes, when I'd addressed the HP team in the past, I got no response or a response that is not helpful, not always, but sometimes.
    
    My feeling about this is give it another year to sort itself out. 
    
    On the other hand, you and I put money in their pockets, so their responses should measure up to the quality of customer service practiced by such companies as Nordstrom's.  Meeting a customer's needs, no matter how trivial those needs may seem, builds long-term loyalty.

    replyreport
    1. 63

       Dale Mazurekposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       We put money in their pockets and we put money in our pockets as well.
       
       It is a great marriage.  Just the value of a back link from hub pages is extreme.
       
       Im not sure how we can think this is a one sided street.
       
       I know of people on Hubpages that are making thousands of dollars and not just the ones that admit to it.
       
       My concerns have always been answered.  Not always the answer I want but thats life.
       
       Dale

       replyreport
       1. 79

          Sally's Troveposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          I agree with you completely. It is a marriage, and so there is an obligation to communicate, to understand the differences and the likenesses without being a bully in either direction.
          
          On HP, just like a marriage, the agreement is a contract.
          
          Well said.

          replyreport
          1. 67

             IntimatEvolutionposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             I agree with all this too.  However, hubpages is not for everybody.  There is no harm in asking for other options.
             
             A different site could become his mistress.

             replyreport
             1. 79

                Sally's Troveposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Yes, I agree again. Perhaps HP is not the mistress he needs.

                replyreport
11. 66

    Jesusjohn78posted 14 years ago

    Here are the responses I have recieved from hubpages. 
    
    "Our TOS apply to all site users. Please feel free to flag any offending hubs you come across.
    
    There are many other writing venues on the internet where you can
    express your support of a website that compensates users for reading
    emails. HubPages is not one of them. The line between promoting a site
    and refuting a claim that the site is a scam is subjective. As the
    name of the company and screen grabs of the site are included in the
    hub, it is either intentionally or unintentionally promoting a website
    that is against Google AdSense policy. Please either take down the hub
    or modify it so that it meets HubPages guidelines."
    
    So in other words its ok to call a site a scam and that is fine but If you try to refute those claims it is not ok.
    
    I should also note that since I have complained about hubpages on the forums that my hubscore has mysteriously dropped about 10 points even though my traffic is rising.

    replyreport
    1. 73

       relacheposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Google's AdSense TOS makes it clear they do not allow such pages or sites to be a part of AdSense, and HubPages has made it clear that if it violates the AdSense TOS, it's not allowed here.
       
       Go start your own site sans AdSense if you can't accept that.

       replyreport
12. 66

    Jesusjohn78posted 14 years ago

    Thank  you to those of you who have read this and given me suggestions about other places to write.  I will definitely check those out.  thank you.

    replyreport
13. 66

    Jesusjohn78posted 14 years ago

    I know understand the Frustration A Texan had with this site

    replyreport
14. 80

    earnestshubposted 14 years ago

    I appreciate being told when my hubs do not comply with ad-sense.
    ... Much better than losing my adsense account!
    Hubpages staff watch my back, and for that I am thankful.

    replyreport
15. 66

    Jesusjohn78posted 14 years ago

    adsences says you can not promote those sites.  it does not say you can not have an educated discussion about those sites.

    replyreport
    1. 71

       livewithrichardposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       "As the
       name of the company and screen grabs of the site are included in the
       hub, it is either intentionally or unintentionally promoting a website
       that is against Google AdSense policy."
       
       I think HP stated their reasoning pretty clearly here. Remove the website name and the screenshot and then discuss it in general terms. This was also an HP suggestion, right?

       replyreport
    2. 85

       Marisa Wrightposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Jesus, remember that Google is dumb.  They don't use human beings to check sites for non-compliance,they use robots.  And the robots don't know whether you're saying nice things or nasty things about the site in question.
       
       It's the same with sex.  You can have a very serious, helpful site about sexual problems and if it uses words that Google objects to, you'll lose your Adsense account.
       
       I know it's annoying but it's life.  There's no point complaining to HubPages about it, because HubPages don't make the rules - Google does.  If you want to complain to anyone, complain to them.

       replyreport
16. 57

    yoshi97posted 14 years ago

    I've heard these arguments over and over again over the TOS, so I thought I would share a tale of someone who got mad about the HP TOS and did something about it!
    
    This person (who we will call Joe) got mad when HP told him what he could and could not publish so I recommended a place he could go to start his own blog with absolutely no censoreship and I also told him how to monetize his blog through Google.
    
    It wasn't long (a few weeks) before I received this email from 'Joe'
    
    I can't believe those (expletive). Google banned my account! (expletive). What did I do wrong? How can they do that? I was just starting to get people on the site and they (expletive) banned me for life! Help!
    
    Well, I checked out the site that 'Joe' had made and found he was committing the same fouls he had commited on HP. However, without HP there to intervene, Google just up and banned him without ever giving him a chance to explain or to fix it.
    
    'Joe' will never have an adsense account again ...
    
    Believe me when I say this ... Then HP flags you over a hub it's not because they are being tyrants, it's because they know Google will probably ban your account if they see the hub and HP is giving you a chance to mend it without losing your adsense account.
    
    Now, there are three schools of thought on why they would want to do this ...
    
    1) They like their members and don't want to see them get banned by adsense
    
    2) They don't want the acts of one person to get everyone else's adsense accounts banned - and yes, you can get banned if your ads show on a page with material that is bannable
    
    3)  They don't want to lose their own adsense account, as that would then bankrupt the site
    
    Pick your choice, but all lead to Google being the nazis - not HP - and I think it's about time we all wake up to this fact. HP is the messenger, but Google is the one that has the last word if HP can't get through to you ... and that final word is always the same ... banned from adsense for life.
    
    Don't be like 'Joe'. Figure out what you are doing wrong and learn from it, or start your own site, make the same mistakes, and lose your adsense account forever.
    
    Remember ... you only will ever receive one message from Google about an account infraction and it's the same for EVERY adsense user ... "Your account has been permanently banned. You will not be allowed to reapply for adsense as you have violated our TOS.
    
    Again, I say this ... An email from HP about a hub is annoying, at best, and perhaps it can be confusing trying to figure out what you need to change in your hub to comply - but emails from HP NEVER cause you to lose your adsense permanently. And if you think I'm wrong about Google handing out 'permanent bans' to bring its flock under order, do a Google search for 'banned from adsense' or any other similar phrase and read the horror stories.
    
    Google has one rule and one rule only ... disobey the TOS and you are banned for life. So, if you think HP is unkind or intolerable, consider the fact that they are giving you full warning to mend your hub - and that they are helping you, by not allowing Google to find your hub first and ban your account permanently.
    
    Trust me ... HP is not the enemy.

    replyreport
17. 66

    Jesusjohn78posted 14 years ago

    Its just very frustrating when there are hubs that talk about the same site that were posted over a year ago and there is no problem but them i try to write about the site and two weeks later it gets flagged.

    replyreport
    1. 71

       livewithrichardposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Did you flag those hubs to bring them to HP attention. You said they were posted a year ago and HP has been going through a heck of a growth spurt over the last year. It's possible they slipped passed moderation or were simply overlooked at the time they were posted because HP didn't fully understand the significance of the site in question.
       
       I'm sure HP wants you to be successful here as they want all of us to be. Word of mouth goes a long way.

       replyreport
       1. 57

          yoshi97posted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Also, those other sites might have went about it differently, allowing themselves to stay barely within boundaries.
          
          Here's a prime example ...
          
          Let's say I write a hub on the rules of poker. Now, if I do that I won't get my hub flagged and all will be good. However, the next day I write a hub about how to beat the odds in poker - this time I get flagged!
          
          Why? Both hubs are about poker? Well ... as it turns out it's not against Google's rules to write about the rules of poker, but it IS against the rules to discuss how to win at poker. So, what's the defining line?
          
          In this case, it's a rule Google has forbidding articles dealing with gambling. And while telling someone the rules of a game doesn't constitute gambling tips, telling them how to make money at it does.
          
          This is the hardship of article writing, as it's really tough to find out what a writer can and can not write about, as Google's rules often seem very arbitrary and vague. And as we discussed earlier, once you break them you're on the outside looking in.
          
          That's why HP is a great site for article writers to learn on, as they help you discover the rules for yourself without getting forever banned. It does seem sometimes like a person is being picked on for their writings, but truly, this is not the case.
          
          I own my own site and I am very aware of Google's rules. I have to me, as there will be no HP there to save me if I mess up on my own site.
          
          Truly, we should all appreciate the helping hand HP gives us to learn the ropes, even if it might feel heavy-handed at times.
          
          And remember ... HP gets 40% of everyone's page impressions, so when they take a hub down they are negating their own profit to do so. But in the end, a mended hub will go on to make profit for a long time without and Google interference ... and that profits both the author and HP.

          replyreport
       2. 85

          Marisa Wrightposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          That's true. Or maybe it's just that they didn't use screenshots or include hyperlinks to the site.  Jesus, I would email HubPages with links to those Hubs and ask if they can explain why you're being treated differently.  There might be a simple answer.

          replyreport