I think I know something about writing articles. I created a new hub yesterday. HubPages took 24 hours before declaring, in one of their mystery messages, that it was of sufficient quality. You know what? It was too good. I deleted it and will now easily place it elsewhere and earn with it.
No problem, HubPages. This continues, and all you will ever get are the transferred lenses.
If you are miffed about a 'canned' answer, I'm sure part of it is time- related, with hundreds of Lensmasters switching over all at once. But with your experience, I'm sure there are plenty of other places to sell your work with no problem.
Methinks you're being a little over-sensitive about an automated message.
Your Hub failed the Quality Assessment Process. It happens. Sometimes it even happens by mistake - the QAP team are human beings, they can have an off day. So you could just edit a word - that would send it through the QAP again and you might get a better result.
However if the judgment is genuine, it's usually not that hard to work out - is it too short? Is it just a big chunk of text? How many of the "stellar Hub" suggestion boxes are ticked (you don't have to tick many, but it does help to tick one or two).
Two were. For length and for having a photo.
BTW, the big focus on photos is a mistake. Photos do not increase views in today's environment.
But it's academic. I don't play games. I post quality content. If HubPages doesn't like it, I have multiple other avenues for placement. Just for the record, I have 350 lenses on Squidoo and hundreds elsewhere. I've only been dinged like this one other time when the filters didn't like my use of keywords in subheadings. Easy to fix, of course.
If HubPages proves to be user unfriendly, as I found the platform when I quit placing years ago, others are much easier to deal with and responsive when there are concerns.
I know you are upset, but anyone who posts a hub has to wait to let it go through the process before it appears on your account without a ? on it. Try not to take it so personally. If you write as well as you say, the hub will start moving up in score, even while it still has the ? and isn't officially accepted yet. Give it time.
My hubs don't get through the process for at least a day either. I think they like at least 3 pictures to break up all the text, most people who read on the internet are lazy readers.
I hope you stay and things work out for you.
I beg to differ with you about the photos not being important. Photos can make or break an article.
It appears you either misspoke or have a critically-challenged typo: "HubPages took 24 hours before declaring, in one of their mystery messages, that it was of ***sufficient*** quality."
Hmmmm . . . not sure what you're alluding to, here.
Oh it happens, there's no need to get upset about this but I don't know it just depends on the staff and the weekend days? Because sometimes it would just take HP about 4 hours to feature my hub and that if it had a very excellent quality and yes I agree with the fellow hubbers here, sometimes you can just click on the edit button and proofread while adding or deleting any misspelled words then click on " done editing" and it will be automatically sent for getting assessed again and it might get featured, I've done that several times and it has worked most of the times! Don't lose hope
It wasn't so much the delay. Things like that happen, of course. It was the delay plus the absence of any coherent message about why it was considered "insufficient." HubPages has many pluses. That's not one of them.
As RanaKm said, sometimes all you need to do is edit the Hub (changing a single word will do) and send it back to QAP. When you do this, another set of eyes reviews the Hub and it might be approved.
Here are links about the QAP process:
If editing doesn't work, all you have to do is send an email on this form:
You'll usually get a personal response describing what changes you need to make. The staff works Monday – Friday, California time.
Thanks for the tip. I wasn't fully aware of this. I think it'll be useful.
Correction. They found it "insuffiecent" without details, not sufficient. Sorry!
David: Sometimes it does take 24 hours or longer. Sometimes your new hub gets featured in only a few hours. You just don't know.
David. As a fellow legend in my own mind, I feel your pain.
I have been there as well.
I looked at your latest hub. Text is absolutely fine. But HP likes lots of purdy pictures. They want at least three I believe. Do that, and I'm reasonably sure all will be well.
If they want three pictures, they won't get them from me. That's bad for SEO, unless they are highly pertinent and necessary to explain the material.
I'll respect their right to be wrong and post elsewhere.
HP does not require 3 pictures. Here is their link where they show what they call a good hub, but not every hub is required to have 3 photos, a voting poll, over a thousand words, etc.
Perhaps I'm having a reading comprehension issue, but when I read the FAQ you cite, HP does require a minimum of 3 photos, a quiz or poll, a table or map, 1150 words and at least one video. Nowhere do I see mention that those elements are optional. Nor do I see mention that the use of only one or two of those elements is acceptable. HP makes it quite clear that to be considered a "stellar" hub and receive a high hub score, hubs must contain ALL of those elements.
They're recommendations, not requirements. The more of those little boxes you can fill with a tick when writing or editing, the greater the chances of having your hub published. I have a published hub with text only, which at just over 1500 words gets me 4 ticks. No photos, maps, polls or quizzes, but published with no problem. Obviously with only 4 ticks, HP doesn't consider it a stellar hub, and neither do I, but it's live and earning its keep - that's the main thing.
I read somewhere that 6 ticks is the current minimum to ensure publication (assuming it passes the quality check), so they might get around to unpublishing it one day until I supply two more ticks worth of updating. But I could do that in several ways, such as adding a couple of photos or a map and poll or even just writing two more ticks worth of text. It's a very flexible system. You certainly don't need to include ALL of the elements offered. Doing that would ruin many a good hub.
Where does that FAQ say "require"? What it says is, "we have found that the most successful Hubs contain…" How does that translate to "require"?
On the flip side:
I transferred my lowest ranking lens here five days ago. It was a cranberry recipe I posted over the summer, and for a multitude of reasons, it just never got any love over at Squidoo: low rank, no comments, no likes. It was sad.
I also got a very vague, not helpful warning when I first published it here at HubPages, and it was unceremoniously unpublished So I worked on it a bit. I republished, fearing the worst.
This time, it stayed put. It was featured. It got comments, and some up votes. It's doing pretty well for a cranberry recipe at a time of the year when you can't find them in stores.
I think this Squidoo to HubPages thing is whatever you make it. It's just going to take some time to learn what this set of filters wants.
lisa: I don't do recipe hubs. However, this is a hubber who writes really helpful hubs. She wrote one about writing recipe hubs. I hope it helps.
http://cardisa.hubpages.com/hub/Howtowr … nt-7756855
Don't give up so easily! Hub pages HATES my hubs. I have an average hub score of 66. According to Hub Pages, I am a loser. On the other hand, Google loves my hubs. Pinterest pinners love my hubs. The people who attend my workshops think I'm an expert. The garden clubs who pay me to speak at their meetings also consider me an expert. Conclusion? Hub Pages knows nothing about gardening and garden writing. As long as I keep making money, I don't give a rat's patootie what Hub pages thinks.
OldRoses, I have to take issue with this - "According to Hub Pages, I am a loser." Rubbish!
If HubPages didn't like your Hubs, they would be unFeatured. They are Featured, which means HubPages thinks they are good. The HubScore simply means that HubPages thinks they could be better.
You made me laugh. Ain't it the truth?
You've successfully encouraged me to think twice. Thanks.
I owe you a favor.
I want you to stay, too, David. Your expression of self confidence and desire for publishing quality is inspirational. I feel the same way and intend to follow you for both inspiration and learning. I've been at HP for two years and still haven't received a pay out, so I could use a mentor. You just may be the one. So, please stay. I want to read your articles. Blessings!
Marie: I have been at HP for 3 years and just met my first payout.
I was so disgusted with HP, that I deleted at least 50 hubs, redid them and posted them elsewhere, but that site turned around and burned writers big time.
The one consistent thing that other writers told me was: Let them sit. Let your hubs/articles regardless of where they are, sit and age.
A lot has gone on with my dad having cancer, moving to be near him, his death in 2012, 10 months after diagnosis, among other family issues, setting up my house, remodeling etc. I have not done a lot of writing for awhile.
However, since holiday season last year, my earnings are creeping up, I am making sales.
There are a lot of good writers who write about earning from writing, keyword use, etc. The names I know are Relache, Greek Geek, Marissa Wright, Cardisa and many more I cannot recall on the top of my head. I can tell you this, one of the old writers here, was supporting her family on HP earnings. However, it did take a few years for her to do it.
Ride it out and see what happens. Find some tips that you haven't tried yet. If there is something you don't understand or does not work for you, simply post it in the forums or questions.
I absolutely concur. I, too, was disgusted after that panda slap over a year or so ago. I didn't write for a long time but left my articles up. I'm glad I did. Now, I am making more than I ever have..I can live independently in a third world country somewhere!
Seriously, if things keep going this well, I'll be able to live off my earnings in about a year..even in the United States!
Dave, whatever its worth, I read a pretty unique and short poem I really did like on a hub just the other day. It also has a YouTube music video on it that I enjoyed listening to. That was it, a poem and a video. No sales links, etc.
I get that. The problem is having to guess what's okay. I definitely don't have to do that on InfoBarrel, Seekyt or Wizzley. So, what's so great about HubPages that makes it worth my jumping through hoops I can't even see?
HP pays more than the others, in most people's experience.
That's certainly a plus, but in my experience over several years, article for article, the not so well known platform Seekyt, piloted by a former HubPages writer, yields higher Adsense results than anyone. The competition is not even close. Check it out. Seekyt might make an excellent second site for you.
I never heard of Seekyt before, how much money can you make? is it pay per view?
It would seem a better use of your time to actually post your content to these sites, rather than keep telling us how superior they are to HP.
Truly though, nothing will pay as well as having your own site, all these revenue-sharing platforms have drawbacks that their users must learn to live with. Perhaps you can take all the energy and attention you devote to this thread and divert it to the creation of your own website. That would give you more satisfaction than following this thread. It's clear you aren't ever going to be satisfied with anything we lowly non-management users have to say. We can't change anything.
+1 x 1000. David Stone's words put a definite damper on excitement over this transfer. To be honest, it took less than an hour for my HP approval for my first work here. @David Stone think of Adsense. Many a quality writer was first denied for reasons unclear. So they reapply and don 't look back after acceptance. If being chronically ill has taught me one thing it is to be happy with the good because all those negatives which seemed so important today? Might not matter at all tomorrow. It's clear you see your writing (sounds like others do too) as excellent even if HP or whoever does not today. Their loss. Getting upset over it? A win for them and a waste of your creative time.
A few weeks down the road, and I agree with you, Kalafina, although I do think they need to be more clear, enabling us to know what needs fixing.
Looked back on from this distance, that situation was trivialized by the remarkable achievement HP pulled off in transferring a huge amount of data in a very short time. Almost all of mine require extensive editing, not a surprise, but what is surprising is how HP's better format inspires me to do more than necessary to make my hubs better than they ever were as lenses.
HubPages is turning out to be a better second home for me, and it's a turnaround for me to see that losing Squidoo may be the best thing that could have happened, given the easy adoption to HubPages.
Thanks for your comment and for bringing me back to reconsider on this thread.
You are very welcome. I do agree with you on the clarity issue at times on HP. I had a miserable time with figuring out how to delete a page. At squidoo you press delete then confirm without ever opening it. At HP it is near illogical especially since then it gives you 24 hrs to change your mind. On the positive, perhaps it is a means of subtle encouragement for us? Save time by staying dedicated to a hub so you do not waste time by attempting deletion? Or perhaps it's for TBI prone people, like myself, as a memory exercise on the last 24 hrs of activity? Ah. Sometimes you can't help but find amusement in life's inconveniences.
In my experience, HubPages pays much, much better than the other three. That's why. And yes, I have tried Seekyt.
Marisa, I think it may have a lot to do with what your writing about and how commercial you are. By that, I mean that Seekyt is much more a pure writer's site while HubPages has more of a product slant, although nowhere near as extreme as Squidoo.
Most of us would feel a better fit with HubPages, but not me necessarily.
One thing I'll give Seekyt, going back to the original topic, if you meet the minimum criteria, as I did, you're published live right away. There are no mystery messages or 24 hour waiting periods. It makes for a more relaxed and confident writing experience, not the uncertainty and lack of clarity you find on HubPages.
BTW, I would give equal kudos to Wizzley with it's better controlled, Squidoo-like presentation, far more beautiful to look at on the page than the clunky look here.
I read part of your hub and you are an excellent writer. On occasion the quality assessment people make a mistake. I would just republish this and it should get approved. If not, I'd wonder why.
Thank you for the compliment. Because I had no clue as to what HubPages didn't like - the message was meaningless - since it hadn't been indexed, I just copied it, deleted it and posted it elsewhere. It was published immediately and picking up views.
For now, I'm publishing everything new elsewhere. Who needs to be hassled like this? It's hard enough to write well every day, without playing guessing game with the platform.
There is definitely something to be said for that, Mark. HubPages came out of the Panda slaughter better than most, at least partly because they'd already reigned in some of the worst excesses Sth Godin and Squidoo were too greedy to deal with.
Hats off to that.
But you can go too far the other way.
It is tough being unpublished or whichever, especially when you know it is high quality. But they need to make money and they can't afford to really study every piece - not when they make a few cents from them.
If it is any consolation, and I think it is, there appears to be no favoritism on HP. Rules apply to everybody.
That would be correct; you don't have to guess what will be accepted at other sites like Wizzley and Squidoo. You didn't have to do it at HP, either.
Now, the other sites are dying, gone and HP is growing after it made the changes to require what it calls quality. Perhaps it isn't all bad.
I have no idea what makes HP great enough to jump through hoops for you, or for myself.
What is great about any site is interesting writers who take a stand and the conversation is sparked in comments that people like to read all of and or follow along. You are good at it, Dave.
It is not as much of a guessing game as you may think, but it takes time to come up with a formula that works well for you.
That guide in the upper right hand corner is a big hint from the HP team, and you should make good use of it.
If you read the info in the learning center closely you will see exactly what the team is looking for. They even provide a chart to help you!
I have never thought HP was user unfriendly...strict, yes...but user unfriendly, absolutely not.
I have learned more here in the 2 12 years I've been here than I ever could have learned in a college writing program.
I hope you stay. We need good writers.
Thank you. We'll see how it goes.
Although some may not find HubPages unfriendly for writers, relatively it is. At least Squidoo mitigated brusque, automated, puzzling messaged with a cheerful overall style. Wizzley can be tough too, but it's no impersonal.
HubPages strength is the community it has made a home for and the very high quality of much of the writing. Those results suggest that, unfriendly or not, the platform works the way it's supposed to and may explain why it will live on while Squidoo fades in the dust.
You may not have noticed yet, but various members of the team participate regularly in the forums. Also, whenever I have emailed them, they have been very responsive and supportive.
I came here from YCN and let me tell you, the difference was like night and day, and I noticed it immediately.
You should know, also, that all of the "strictness" you see is to protect us from having further problems with Google, and so far it is working pretty well.
If you let things get too loose, you can lose everything you have gained, and in the past year, HP has gained quite a bit.
I already moved it somewhere else. No problem and no doubt it will be successful.
But I'm glad yours worked out, Lisa.
Marissa: i think it was you that posted something about stellar hub box on our hubs. I just checked one of my new hubs and I don't see it.
If you view it in "edit" mode-- you will see it in the upper right hand corner.
Rochelle: At the top is the black bar, nothing in right hand corner. In the hub, there is a content capsule with other capsules to choose what you want underneath. There is nothing that says stellar hubs.
It's only visible in edit mode, and it's in the top right hand corner.
I use the Help files to answer my basic questions but I also found the hub about How to get your hub past Pending by LongTimeMother very helpful when I started writing here. I try to follow the basic rules she suggests and read it every now and then to remind myself.
LindaSmith1, I suspect the stellar hub box is the box in the top right corner when editing that says something like 'Need Some Goals?'
The simple solution is
Do some research and add some more words to your article to make it lengthier.
Add one or two attractive images
If possible, add a video.
Hit "done editing" button
I believe, you will be in "featured" category.
Thanks. I appreciate your suggestions. Nonetheless, I see no sense in adding more words than the topic warrants. It did reach the first word count check mark.
And just because, I am not going to add capsules that I know from experience do nothing to increase SEO values, some just the opposite. I write for readers, not HubPages filters. I get a lot of views because I know my audience. If HubPages has a brainless filter or reader who doesn't understand how the internet works, that's not a problem for me to deal with.
I devoted mountains of time providing input and encouragement to Squidoo. You know where that got me. Never again.
Baby Boomer: I checked another hub. I found the one you mentioned. It was one of my lower ranked hubs. Thanks everybody.
People keep talking about pictures. You really don't need 3 pictures. Almost all of my hubs only have one and they are fine. I only ever had one hub rejected due to insufficient quality and a bit of an update fixed that. A couple more headings, a bit more content. That's about it. I find Hubpages a great place to write for. I never had any success anywhere else (except a bit on Bubblews but that all dries up if you don't spend ages liking and commenting on other people's posts - so too much like hard work).
I agree too. Pictures are everywhere on the internet. With rare exceptions, searchers don't click on articles to see pictures. It's information they want, and statistics show that more than a few pictures bog them down and send them away.
I think it depends on what you're writing about. I write recipes and craft how-to articles. People are more likely to click through based on a good image in these areas, and are more likely to click out without reading if there aren't any images.
Me too, I usually only have one..two at the most and I've never had a problem.
It's one thing not having a problem but are you scoring high enough and getting enough views to make money? Why should we aim for the minimum when we are given the opportunity to write stellar hubs which can raise the whole site to the very top?
Sue, my problem with "stellar" hubs is that the recommended format includes elements that are not appropriate for my hub niche (gardening). I also find the recommended word count problematical. Not all of my hub topics require thousands of words. A few hundred words usually suffice. Anything longer than that and I break it up into separate hubs rather than throw a lot of only slightly related information into one hub.
My problem is usually the opposite. I have too many words, like sometimes nearly 3000, then, only then, do I resort to splitting the subject matter into more than one hub. 1250 words is really not much to expand sufficiently on a title. But then we are in very different niches.
My articles are never that long. People have short attention spans. Heck, I don't even want to read an article that is 3000 words long.
I don't like reading long articles online. I do enough of that for work (IT). Outside of work, I prefer reading online articles that are short and sweet. I write my hubs that way figuring people just want information. Not filler, not polls, not quizzes, not endless photos and certainly not videos. They will go to Youtube for videos.
The reason HubPages wants long articles is nothing to do with readers. Google likes long articles, and long articles gives more opportunity for you to use a much wider range of keywords naturally, so a longer article is more likely to rank higher and on a wider variety of search terms. If you include a table of contents, readers can then jump to the part of the article they want without having to get bored scrolling through!
I probably make more than most people here.
If that's the case, I'm going to have to take another look at your hubs. That's quite a statement considering that there are people here who have had more than 10 million views!
I agree Dwelburn. I know that when I find an article that I may want to read and I am faced with scrolling through photos and videos, I am gone!! I want my information and that is it.
There is another take: People are lazy readers and difficult to keep on a page. If a publication is visually attractive and the text appears almost like elaborate captions to very good visuals they tend to read to the end and be more "engaged" which reduces the bounce rate, especially in longer articles falling into the "Stellar Hub" category.
Also, with mobile and tablets now being the main devices used on the Internet, pictures and videos tend to get more attention in the window than plain text only.
Proof in the Pudding
Just go to your Facebook or Google Plus page and tell me which entries you are more likely to read, those that have pictures and videos or those in plain text. An image is worth a thousand words as they say.
Those the give me the information I want. If I want pictures, then I will search for photos of whatever it is that I am looking for. If I am looking for a DIY or tutorial, then I will look for something with a video and well written step by step instructions.
Sue, that's true up to a point, especially the smaller paragraphs. Big, blocky text is a disaster on any internet device, sends your bounce rate through the roof.
Put too many pictures on a page clicked on for information can have a similar effect. One is a minimum, I agree, but three is the max.
Yes, Google + posts with great pictures get a lot of likes, put that's not translatable to views. It's great headlines that get views.
David, may I respectfully disagree? I have all text in my hubs but each block of paragraphs is labelled as to the content so if you are searching for the history of a plant, that information is in the "history" section. If you want to know how to propagate it, look in the "propagation" section. I try to make it easy to find the information you are searching for without having to read my entire hub if you don't care to or if you are in a hurry.
Linda, I couldn't agree more. I write in the gardening niche and gardeners want information. I give them information and the appropriate number of photos to get my point across. I don't do polls or quizzes and if someone wants to watch a video on gardening, as far as I'm concerned, they can go to Youtube. There are lots there.
Funny you said You Tube Old Roses.
I wanted information about installing an window AC unit. I had somebody to do it. However, I needed tips on cutting off the draft around and under it.
I did not look for articles that had a video. I went straight to you tube. I wanted to see how to solve the draft issue, not read instructions.
I did find since adding stickmen my reads have gone up by -0.03%
Well there was a reason why HubPages and Squidoo were two separate animals.
They are not the same.
The reason a lot of people were on one was because they didn't like the other.
That choice has been removed.
Feeling a bit let down by Squidoo, I am also looking for a new place to write as well. If you find a good place, can you let us know?
I think the article should atleast have 700 words plus two pics to pass the quality assesment
Not necessarily. I have hubs with fewer than 700 words and only one photo. They passed QAP and are featured.
I have had several hubs pass QAP with less than 300 words.
In the end, HubPages is HubPages. They have their strategy. They want what they want--which is not the same as any/every other content site.
Even adept content writers should expect a learning curve when moving to a new platform.
It seems to me that the internet is converting to mostly photos and video, that is why Pinterest and Youtube are so popular.
@bettyshares, that seems an accurate assumption. Pinterest seems crazy popular.
But I think, in perspective, there's a different crowd of searchers looking for information, not anything visual, although visuals can help.
The internet being what it is, the whole mix may be different a year or two from now. There always will be a place for good writing, but the form of that is changing too.
At the top right of the page when you're building your hub is a tracker of what you've added to your hub. It isn't unlike the status bar on the Squidoo workshop. It's not even required that you use all of the options suggested in your hub. My hubs are having issues with other things, mostly user error, but following the suggestions provided at the top is probably why not every hub I've posted so far has had a problem.
I'm aware of that feature. it's good guidance. With the problem I had, there were no unmet suggestions, which made the absence of any clear message about why they were featuring it as perplexing as it was irritating.
But it's easy to solve. You can keep adjust the hub until it finally hits or, more sensibly I think, you can take it to another platform where things are more clear and easy to understand.
I agree, there is no way I would fiddle around with a Hub and resubmit it multiple times - I'd just take it somewhere else. But I'm very surprised that you gave up without making even one attempt at re-submitting, that seems too much like giving up a the first hurdle.
As SmartandFun said, "The QAP workers are humans. Some are more stringent and nit-picky than others. All of them are going to make mistakes from time to time."
I agree with Arachnea I found that the guide shown in editing mode made it a cinch to get a new Hub approved and I think over time will prefer HP to Squidoo, where I never really knew what they wanted it kept changing so much!
Sometimes it is just a glitch. I have gotten something about a hub, found nothing wrong with it. So, I after doing nothing but hit edit button, then done editing, that was the end of it.
Other times I may change a subheading or a sentence and then all was well.
Yep, Jean is right EVERYONE has to wait 24 hours, it's not just you.
The first hub I wrote after coming back to build up my old account didn't take 24 hours. At the same time, HubPages should understand that, when you take that long to review something, you ought to be able to come up with something more informative and helpful.
All the sites I write for do hand reviews, these days. They have to. Only HubPages takes this long. And I don't see the point of a hand review that ends up with nothing more than automation would have done.
WE RECOMMEND then they go on with their list of recommendations that are not writtenin stone. They also recommend hubs to be over 1100 words to, but there isn't an absolute word amount requirement. 400 words or more is best.
David, I just want to say that where ever you write. I'll read it.
OldRoses: I have a hub that has received 275 views in 3 days. It is not a stellar hub. In fact, not one photo, capsule, video, poll, etc. I had no problems with it being featured.
I don't know if hubs are still being reviewed by Amazon Turks, but I believe there were some issues about it when they were.
Change can be hard. I am one who hates change. I've learned over the years to try and chill out and get used to new things before getting my dander up over something that ends up not really being a big deal.
As has been mentioned several times already, HubPages is different than Squidoo - yes. There are what seem like silly hoops to jump through - yes. The hoops we are jumping through are a direct result of Panda smack downs, and are basically what have saved the site - yes.
But don't make too big a deal out of having one hub get kicked back to you rather than published. The QAP workers are humans. Some are more stringent and nit-picky than others. All of them are going to make mistakes from time to time.
If you think your article is top notch, reread it for typos and submit it again. It will probably pass. If it doesn't, email admin and ask for a more specific answer than the form letter you're given. I'm sure they will be bending over backwards to extend a helpful hand to those coming here from Squidoo, although they might be swamped with that at the moment. You might have to have a little patience with them at this point.
As far as it taking 24 hours, it used to take much longer. It depends upon the amount of articles being submitted and the number or QAP workers at that given time. It is normally very quick.
Don't write here if you don't want to. But passing QAP isn't hard. I am certain you can do it easily, and there is probably some silly reason why your recent hub was kicked back. You can make a big deal out of it and stomp away in a huff if you like, or you can give this site a little bit of a chance and you will see that the QAP is easy to pass and not a problem.
I think you just received an odd or incorrect QAP result right off the bat, which is unfortunate timing.
OldRoses: I just read your pumpkin hub at the top of your profile page. I loved it. Short, sweet, to the point with valuable information. I love Libby's canned pumpkin. I had no idea that it was actually butternut squash. I have been told that no all pumpkins are good for pumpkin pie. No polls, etc to clutter up the hub that I wanted to read not play games in.
My niche is completely saturated, and I try not to write long hubs, but I can't help it, it's my style of writing. And I began making the monthly payout after a year. It's slow in the summer, and I usually can't make the payout in July and August, but then it begins again in September. People will read what interests them, if you can engage them enough with your writing.
Everyone told me not to keep the long hubs when I was new, but I needed them to cover what I wanted to say. Several 3,000 word hubs have been the ones that made me the most money, in fact, all the ones people like the most are long. I can't help myself, when I am interested in a topic, I want to everything about it.
Thanks, Linda. That's the average length of my hubs, between 400 and 500 words. Some are longer, 800+ words. Anything more than that and I worry about boring the reader. The funny thing is, that my longer hubs are my least popular hubs. And my one and only hub that has been awarded Editor's Choice, is my LEAST POPULAR hub! Like I've said over and over, HP knows nothing about garden writing.
We have analyzed the amount of traffic a hub gets by word count and have found 1200 - 1300 words as optimal. As hubs get longer there is diminishing returns in traffic for each additional word as well as it tends to pay off to cross the 1200 word mark.
Of course, each hub is unique. There are really long hubs over 3000 words that get more traffic per word than the 1200 to 1300 sweet spot.
Thank you, Paul. That's my sense of it too. The problem with my hub was that it topped out at a little over 700 words. If I added anything more, it would have been padding, i.e., bad writing. It's important not to be so strict with a one size fits all approach that it keeps good, useful content from being posted.
In this instance, when HP refused to feature what I believe to be a well-constructed hub with content that was relevant to the top, I deleted it and reposted elsewhere with no change whatsoever beyond what was needed to adjust for a different format. It was immediately accepted and passed a hand review with flying colors.
At that, I still have no clue as to what HP wanted in addition to what was there, checked off for over 700 words, with a picture, directly related Amazon links and a thorough spell check. That's discouraging in terms of creating more here when there's that much uncertainty.
Thank you, by the way, for taking time out to comment. I believe you have pretty full plate, right now.
I would like to read the article; can you send it to me? <email snipped>
Yes, I just sent it to you via email, Brie.
Thank you for your interest.
Thanks for the info. Sometimes it's really a mystery why certain hubs do better than others. I've been surprised a few times. Will think about the "sweet spot."
Did your analysis cover categories as well as word length? If you did, did you notice any differences?
I ask because it strikes me that some topic areas will tend to generate pages which are typically shorter (or longer) than others.
No, I didn't. HubPages response was so incomprehensible it was just easier to go somewhere else with it. After 24 hours, you expect some detail. Without it, why go fishing?
There are too many other sites out there, several of which I write for, eager to get good content. HubPages really didn't show the same level of interest or support.
I don't know the data by category. My assumption is that in depth articles do better across the board, although I wouldn't add filler for the sake of more words.
That would be my assumption too - it's certainly what generates the traffic on my blog.
Maybe worth contemplating doing the analysis across categories in future? They've got different audiences, different age groups, different reading levels, different amounts of time they are prepared to read....etc
I believe Paul Edmondson mentioned somewhere on this thread that HP research showed the most successful hubs have around 1,200 words. I agree. That's not just my own experience but what I've read from other sources on the trend in Google search results.
In depth articles that are of genuine service to searchers get favored results and length, among others, is a key factor. Also, time on page, bounce rate and the other suspects. Google uses that to get around keyword stuffers and others gaming the system.
The bottom line is, writing great, detailed, unique content gets results in search for obvious reasons. The challenge, of course, is to write enough without writing too much, just to hit the marks, but overall, we are up against competitors who are trying to offer better (as well as cheats trying to trick the bots.) If our content is terrific - and I'm a firm believer in reworking it until it is - it will win. Maybe not first place. There are still giants out there, but good content can get you decent traffic above the fold.
Funny thing is, I used to think my wordiness hurt me in search, and it probably did. Now, I'm looking forward to my long articles migrating here and getting the benefit of HP's strong page authority.
Here's a forum discussion about Hub length which might interest you:
I think one of the reasons longer articles do better is that they give one more opportunity to use key words, and the more key words you have, the more likely your article is to be searched.
Having said that, however, I know that some articles can only be so long before they become overwhelmed with fillers.
Writing online is a real balancing act.
Because of course it will be so awesome to get those long articles rejected for no good reason without anyone telling you in sufficient detail.
Wait..., I mean, that was the entire purpose of you starting this thread, way back on page one..., wasn't it? To let us all know how this site was no good and how you immediately yanked down something that was not passed by the QAP the first time because HubPages is just so horrible they did that to you, and you moved it elsewhere right away because it was rejected.
My 1200 - 1300 word comment was about the marginal value of each additional word. This is where it peaks. Then, on average there is diminishing returns for each additional word (on average).
Longer Hubs still get more traffic, just each additional word isn't as efficient as you cross the 1300+ word mark.
I think Google prefers single pages that have depth, but that they are still manageable for users to quickly pull the needed information from them.
David, you're a writer, don't take it personally. Some hubs will work here, and some won't. You'll figure it out. I know that HP likes hubs that answer search engine queries. Does it have a good title and does it adequately cover the topic? Don't get discouraged.
HP is a Business, so WAS Squidoo...
HP is looking at what works best to attract traffic from Google and what works best for conversions. They want to make money. They are not making changes just to piss off a few individuals...
They have many thousands of hubs to draw their conclusions from in a scientific manner. They can make changes on one batch and compare against another. They have real data - we all make assumptions!!
My assumptions are that they know what they are doing as they are still here through doing what they feel is best for the site not for individual writers. They are listening to the customers not the staff........
If they had designed a site for the "writers" pleasure and convenience would we still be here?? I don't think so..
If people don't like what they are doing then fine; go somewhere else.
Personally I like the rules, I like the annoyance. Admittedly they lack a "friendly" approach sometimes but then that is "normal" in many big businesses......
I have learned a lot from HP, what works here tends to work on my own sites, what they have said don't do here, I avoid on my own sites..
Please deposit the check in the usual place please HP......
I have written articles with around 3000 words and micro-poems with under 100 and all are featured, so word count is not strict. I do always have quite a few images as I feel they add a lot to the hubs and make them more appealing to readers, especially in the categories that I write. If I see a hub with only one image and lots of unbroken words I usually skip it. A few of my longest hubs are 'editor's choice' and tick more boxes but they receive less traffic than many of my shorter hubs.
Poetry is judged differently than all other categories of Hubs. If your micro-poem Hubs were not in the Poetry category, they would fail QAP, guaranteed.
Lucky HP does appreciate that a lot of people do enjoy reading poetry and give us some latitude because of it. Poetry hubs may never win any awards but word count and ticking boxes is not the be all and end all of good writing. I do admit to adding pics, videos and additional text to boost there hub scores slightly though, so I am jumping through a few hoops I guess. Good luck to all those from Squidoo though getting your hubs featured. It really isn't so hard when you get the hang of it.
What would make that courteous?
Your hub is of insufficient quality, so sorry, but you have a beautiful soul?
It failed the assessment. It happens to us all.
by Georgie Lowery 6 years ago
I'm not knocking anybody (or maybe I am) but I have seen several "Hubs" that transferred from Squidoo that are composed of nothing more than very thin content and a whole bunch of merchandising links (and even one lady who pimped her own Etsy page multiple times in her "Hub")....
by Barbara Fitzgerald 7 years ago
Your arrival has eclipsed a new feature that we were discussing in earnest when the merger was announced.HubberPro is a new feature. In a nutshell, HP has hired 7 excellent editors to help bring our hubs up to snuff. They will be doing fact checking, editorial corrections, updating images...
by Nathan Bernardo 6 years ago
On a different account, somewhat "experimental" account, one of my Hubs is unfeatured. Generally my inclination was to unpublish it and move it or just delete it. But I kept it and put it in a Hub group. Meaning, if the Hubs before and after it get traffic, possibly the unfeatured one...
by Tony 6 years ago
There has been a lot of discussion in the last few days about HP changing the rules and people being un-featured or even un-published for spam and over promotional activity. So I just want to add my thoughts......Whether people (writers) like it or not most of their traffic will be coming from...
by Susan W 7 years ago
I suppose with the latest Google Panda update and all the low traffic we've been getting, I guess it's time to start writing more hubs. While I wasn't affected too badly by the update, I still want to increase my traffic and hit payout next month or the month after. I want to hit 80 hubs by the end...
by Susie Lehto 6 years ago
I am being challenged. I have been having a problem getting a new hub to be featured. It has gone through QAP three times already. It is a new day, and I am feeling up to the challenge once again. Rested and refreshed after a good nights sleep, with a hopeful heart. So! Now, the hub will be going...
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