And the illegal alien saga continues

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   wildernessposted 13 years ago

   Two articles in my morning paper:
   Fremont Nebraska has enacted a law banning the hiring or renting (homes) to illegal aliens.  They have a large increase of illegals in the last 20 years, mostly because of Freemont Beef and Hormel meatpacking plants.  The ACLU will fight it, or course, but I'm not sure whose "rights" are being violated.  Question, though, - if the two meatpacking plants are hiring large numbers of illegals, where is the INS?
   
   Second article indicates that when A&N Food Market in New York catches shoplifters they propose a fine of about $400 to the shoplifter or they keep their ID, post their pictures to shame them and call the police.  According to the article the shoplifters, mostly Chinese, manage to pay the fine for fear of deportation, which would indicate they are in the country illegally.  In a mostly Chinese area, with mostly Chinese clientele, the practice is an import from China where it is common.

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      china manposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I live in China, travel all over China and I have NEVER seen this practice anywhere here.

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         wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         You mean you don't believe the media?  How utterly shocking!
          

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         Sab Ohposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Of course no one ever steals in China because the MIddle Kingdom is a paradise, right?   
         
         If anyone really cares, yes, there are shoplifters in China.

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            china manposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Reading is not your strong point is it.   
            
            The issue under discussion was shops fining people they think are shoplifting and the press report that claims this is common practice in China, which is untrue.  The press - like you - have no idea what happens in China and so just make it up.

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               Sab Ohposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Yes, it is a common practice in China. I'm glad you are not involved in shoplifting and have no reason to be familiar with it.

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                  china manposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  NO it definately is not common practice in China.  As you would know if you had any other information except from some online friend who was in China once - maybe.

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                     Sab Ohposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     You need to get out of whatever bubble you are living in over there. You seem quite sheltered. Don't waste the chance to really get to know the place.

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   Flightkeeperposted 13 years ago

   I thought we were sending all our illegal aliens to Canada, since the Canadians are so much nicer than we are.

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   TMMasonposted 13 years ago

   "when A&N Food Market in New York catches shoplifters they propose a fine of about $400 to the shoplifter or they keep their ID, post their pictures to shame them and call the police.  According to the article the shoplifters, mostly Chinese, manage to pay the fine for fear of deportation, which would indicate they are in the country illegally.  In a mostly Chinese area, with mostly Chinese clientele, the practice is an import from China where it is common."
   
   Where does a private bussiness get the right to levy a fine?...
   
   This seems illegal to me, a type of intimidation and robbery.
   
   This store should be checked and stopped of this practice. They are getting rich off this I bet. if they choose not to call the police then that is fine... but you don't get to strong-arm people with the threat.
   
   Gee, sounds like the Obama Doctrine to me.

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      wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I tend to agree - they are being "forced" to pay a hefty fine with no trial or proof of theft and that is wrong.  New York stores have powers somewhere between police and citizen's arrest, but this still seems to cross the line to me. 
      
      It might not work as well with a US citizen, though, the store could easily be sued for theft of the ID and for libel and/or slander for posting pictures claiming the person was thief without a court trial as well as possible false arrest.  Even if guilty a person could make trouble for the store if such things were done before a trial.
      
      Illegal aliens on the other hand, will capitulate much easier for fear of deportation and could easily be taken advantage of whether guilty of shoplifting or not.  In that case the store could make a killing with fines being levied against the innocent (at least of shoplifting - they are still illegal aliens).

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         TMMasonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Well NY is a sanctuary city... so I don't think that should be a big problem.
         
         The Asain community is pretty... "insular"... I believe the proper term for it is these PC days.
         
         I would say racist and closed... but.
         
         I think this could be another example of a people devouring thier own with criminal activity. The chinese people it is done to probrably know they don't want to piss off the owners. Never know what syndicate owns what bussiness.
         
         Seems like a nice rakett to me, lucrative.

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   barrancaposted 13 years ago

   I lived many years in Nebraska and I find this story to be quite sad.  Nebraskans, more often than not, make small-minded political choices. I wrote a hub on illegal immigrant labor that might interest readers of this particular forum issue:
   
   http://hubpages.com/hub/Illegal-immigra … der-Memoir

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   TMMasonposted 13 years ago

   Nebraskans make small minded political choices... because they pass some laws against illegals, bussinesses who hire them and landlords who harbour them.
   
   huh...
   
   I call that comprehensive immigration reform.

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      wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      And it continues to spread.  Perhaps our do nothing administration may be biting off more than they can chew when they go after the states and cities that clearly want immigration laws enforced.  We can but hope.

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      barrancaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Migrant workers keep this country humming.  They pay taxes, they work jobs most Americans avoid and all in all contribute mightily to our society with little reward.  If we want to slow it down, there are two solutions:  set up a system of identification that really works and penalize businesses that hire them.  And make sure there is significant jail time for illegal immigrants who are caught.  3 months first offense, 6 months second offense.  However, I don't think it is particularly wise because of what they contribute.

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         TMMasonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Yes migrant workers... the legal ones that come through on a work visas... they are a productive part of this society.
         
         Illegals... illegal laborers and all others, are not. We already have the jail terms in the law... enforce them all and deport away.
         
         The only break they should get is to leave before we deport them, or they are never eligible for citizenship again.
         
         Yup... that'd be great.

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            alternate poetposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            You really do not understand your own society at all - the illegal workers are encouraged by the companies who hire them as cheap labour and as maids, gardeners and cleaners in their houses - and the business people run your local government directly, and your national government indirectly. They talk a lot about controls and pass strange laws that make life more difficult for the illegals but do not stop them. The business people can stop them in a day by just not hiring them any more, with no money they have to come out and would be better off back at home. The business people give out the jobs and you are too expensive so you get screwed so they can make a buck.
            
            You are listening to all the ridiculous noise and not looking at the problem.

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               Ohmaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Talk about not understanding! Wow!
               When I make well above minimum wage in this country and still can not get my head above water because of the gap between minimum wage and the cost of living how in the world can you say we are to expensive?
               To expensive is the cost of living and the last time I checked those costs were driven by industry not workers.

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                  alternate poetposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  An illegal worker is working for considerably less than the minimum wage - almost slave labour.  You cost much more even at minimum wage.  The point of the post was about control of the situation - the very people who employ the illegal workers are the same people who run your country, the laws are all aimed at everything except stopping them working as near slave labour.  Hence all about making a buck at your expense.

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                     Sab Ohposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     People love to throw around terms like "slave labor" because they're so darn dramatic, but it is just empty hyperbole.

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                        alternate poetposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        hyperbole ?  you love that word, guess you looked it up eh!?  slave labour is when the worker cannot escape and are paid wages at or below subsistence levels - your illegal workers are trapped at the discretion of their employers and paid well below the minimum wage - slave labour - yes it is!

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                           Sab Ohposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           "hyperbole ?  you love that word, guess you looked it up eh!?"
                           
                           
                           Why would you think I'd need to look it up? And no, I don't "love" the word. In fact, I'd like it very much if people would stop pointlessly engaging in it. It's as if some people feel they can't make a point without it.

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               Sab Ohposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               "You really do not understand your own society at all "
               
               
               
               .............................
               
               
               wow~

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            Ralph Deedsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            All 11 million of them?

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         Ohmaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         It really annoys the crap out of me every time someone say
         How do you know what most Americans avoid?
         I have done a lot of crappy jobs to feed my children and would do it all over again if I had to. Pay an honest wage for an honest days work and I do not think most hungry US citizen would pass it up.

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            TMMasonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            They wouldn't demean themselves so they think we wouldn't. I have had my share of shit jobs also and for rock bottom wages on top of it.

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               Sab Ohposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               The whole "jobs Americans won't do" BS is just a thin excuse for people who favor illegal immigration politically.

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   TMMasonposted 13 years ago

   Thus the laws against businesses hiring them... now your catching on, AP.
   
   See how that works.

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   Ohmaposted 13 years ago

   And yet you somehow managed to imply in your previous post that we the American workers were at fault.
   You just stated that the government who is run by industry has a vested interest in not protecting the jobs and lively hoods of American workers.

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      TMMasonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Me?... No I didn't.

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         Ohmaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         That was directed at alternate poet not you. Sorry for the confusion.

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            TMMasonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Okay...

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      alternate poetposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      You - the American workers - allow, vote and generally support your elected bodies, who rip you off by allowing the cheap labour. To make you 'believe' they are doing something they make all sorts of noises and pass useless laws - but they are the ones employing the illegal workers for their greater profit. They sound as though they are doing something when in fact they are causing the problem.

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         Ohmaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         We the American workers voices are completely useless and have been since the introduction of the Electoral College a long long time before I was born. We the American workers would be kidding ourselves if we thought any different.

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            alternate poetposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I think we are saying the same thing - except that communication has been getting in the way

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               Ohmaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Probably pretty likely. You Brits tend to word things funny.

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   bpheeposted 13 years ago

   They're here. They're staying.  Many more are coming.
   
   Be nice to them, maybe they'll let you all stay.

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      Sab Ohposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      If the democrats have their way they are...

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   TMMasonposted 13 years ago

   AP says..."An illegal worker is working for considerably less than the minimum wage - almost slave labour.  You cost much more even at minimum wage."
   
   Wrong... so very wrong it just shows you have no clue.
   
   Obviously you do not have a clue about how it is here, AP.
   
   I don't know many illegalls that make less than minimum wage... your kidding me right. They come here and work for half the rate of the trades they infiltrate and destroy.
   
   I know roofers who cannot pull more than 10 to 12 $ an hour when they used to be making 25+ and hour or more.
   
   They, the illegals, come into this country then take work for half the rate of the going scale, and then cnanot even do the job up to code.... because mexico doesn't have anything near our codes.
   
   You really need to learn what you speak of before you speak on it, AP.
   
   It is all okay though, AP... I mean... China is about to bring world peace, tolerance, and economic equality to the world.... right... lolllllllllll

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      wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I really have to question the "cost" of an illegal worker.  The worker may not have as much cash delivered to him by his employer, but the cost to the American society doesn't end there by any means. 
      
      Americans are footing the bill for their childrens education.  Without a valid SS# they can't pay their share of income taxes.  We pay the cost of their medical care and their lack of auto insurance.  Despite what the naysayers claim we provide subsidized food and housing.  We pay for the criminal subset illegal aliens.
      
      There is no doubt at all that a few American employers are making a killing of their illegal alien workers, but the rest of society must make up the extra costs of having them in the country, feeding at the generous American trough.

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    TMMasonposted 13 years ago

    The puppet says... They're here. They're staying.  Many more are coming.
    
    Be nice to them, maybe they'll let you all stay."
    
    
    
    No, we won't be nice anymore... we see where that shit has got us.
    
    And yes they're here,... they're leaving, be nice, or you can go with them.

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    Flightkeeperposted 13 years ago

    I still say we give them all an express ticket to Canada.  They are more accepting there and they're nicer.  Or we can send them to Europe where they get free health care and monthly checks through welfare. And we can send them to Britain where they'll get a free house.  Latin Americans should know that  they would get way more free stuff in Canada and Europe.  In comparison the US is stingy and unwelcoming.

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    tobey100posted 13 years ago

    Only one comment needs posting.  What part of ILLEGAL don't educated people understand?  In a society of laws you don't get to pick and choose which to obey.  If that were the case I'd be a bank robber.  As a member of law enforcement I often feel sorry for a great number of the people we arrest and incarcerate.  They don't have a job, education or prospects for the future either but they don't get a pass.  Neither should ILLEGAL immigrants.

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    Kangaroo_Jaseposted 13 years ago

    Here's an interesting tid bit for you.
    
    A man pays US$5000 to leave Pakistan and comes to Indonesia by boat, its a three month journey, its cramped because this man is on a boat that only holds comfortable 20 people, yet for three months he is crammed in with 50 people.
    There is almost no food, no shelter from the elements, and he has only his personal possessions.
    He gets to Indonesia, and gets on another boat to bring him to Australia (his 5 grand has paid for this, because he was told it is so easy) and eventually the boat is picked up in Australian waters either by our Navy or Customs.
    Now said illegal man who paid 5 grand discovers he gets a 3 month holiday on Christmas Island, which is Australian Territory and lives behind a fence for another three months, but is efd, and clothed and if he doesn't classify as a refugee, he gets a trip back to Pakistan courtesy of Qantas Airways.
    Multiply that by 18,000 people who pay the same 5 grand each year to come to Australia. Some don't get caught and come through, and get jobs, but are paid cash, so they don't pay taxes. They also don't have Medicare (govt paid basic health cover) because they cannot get a card and cannot pay for any trip to a doctor for any health issues. They live most often with others like themselves and live on a very meager amount of money and from pay to pay. SO they also don't pay for anything else, in case they pop up on the radar (drivers license, private health cover, auto insurance, etc)
    The funny thing is, from that refugees point of view, they don't care, its ten times better than the life they had in their country of origin.
    For us law abiding Australians, its a tough gig as we are paying to return those who ARE caught getting here illegally for their 3 month holiday and their return trip home.
    I am not against ANYONE wanting to emigrate to Australia, just do it the RIGHT way.

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       Sab Ohposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       If you say the same thing in America you are called a xenophobe.

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          Kangaroo_Jaseposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Huh?
          
          Happy for legal immigrants to enter a country and live, yet if they are illegal your xenophobic (from an American point of view)
          
          hmmmmm weird.

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             Flightkeeperposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             It is weird in America.  If you say anything against illegals you are regarded as racist and xenophobic. Welcome to our world.

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                Kangaroo_Jaseposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                Ahhhhh thankyou, that makes much more sense to me now. In Australia, like any other country we have our fair share of racist bigots.
                But with immigration, nothing pee's Australians more than those trying to get into our country illegally.
                These people are viewed as scum, and that point of view holds irrespective of which country they come from.
                Racist, yes, always going to come up as a topic, and always due to bigotry, but xenophobic, never, ever viewed as that.
                Thanks for pointing out , how much different it is in the US.

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    TMMasonposted 13 years ago

    Kangar... "Some don't get caught and come through, and get jobs, but are paid cash, so they don't pay taxes. They also don't have Medicare (govt paid basic health cover) because they cannot get a card and cannot pay for any trip to a doctor for any health issues. They live most often with others like themselves and live on a very meager amount of money and from pay to pay. SO they also don't pay for anything else, in case they pop up on the radar (drivers license, private health cover, auto insurance, etc)"
    
    Huhhhh... they get medicare and medicaid here... they get welfare and food stamps, and licenses so they can vote... they get a free education and healthcare... any other Americans feeling stupid yet!... HUhhh we are idiots... America is a country of IDIOTS.
    
    And they get good UNION jobs here also.. with all benitfits.
    
    IDIOTS!!!

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       Kangaroo_Jaseposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Hmmm, I am at a loss as to how they cannot be picked up as illegals (In the US) as I know that as soon as any illegal HERE in Australia, they are shipped out of the country quick smart. Im thinking that for illegals in the US are are far more vast and creative ways to cheat the system than in Australia. Again it is a challenge we all face in each of our respective countries.

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